Re: Still to many "no"s
Deb Lewis
I'm way behind and responding late...
***I am still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
(nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.***
Nagging and shouting are habits and while they can be a little hard to stop they can stop. Give yourself something else to do instead of nagging and shouting. In that moment when you're about to say something to your kids in frustration - pause - breathe, and make a better choice. You'll yell a few more times before you remember to take a moment before you speak but it will come to you to pause a moment before you speak and choose better words and a better tone.
The belittling maybe a leftover thing from your own childhood and you can stop that too. If it's in your mind or on your tongue to say something harsh just don't speak at all. And then, in your head, turn it into something else. If you were about to say "What's wrong with you, why can't you listen?" In your head, instead, turn that into, "He's so busy and engrossed, I'm glad he's feeling so happy right now."
***not to force the door against its hinges***
Distract them away. Someone once wrote, "delight" them away. Offer up something better and more interesting than the door. That shouldn't be too hard. Don't explain to them again about the hinges. They're too little to care about hinges. Just move them on to something fun and happy. And get used to the idea that houses require maintenance and repairs for these very reasons. Humans can be hard on houses. <g> That's reality. Hinges are not more important than these little boys.
*** not to wave the broom above their heads indoors***
Maybe put away your fragile things for now. Think realistically about whether that broom is really going to hurt anything. Is the broom a sword? A club? Get or make swords or clubs they can wave around.
***not to touch the walls with paint on their hands***
Walls can be washed and or repainted. But you can set up a painting place that's more convenient to them, more convenient for clean up, and you can stay close by to help them and intercept. If they're liking the idea of putting their hand prints on things give them an old sheet or bedspread and let them put their hand prints there. Hang it on the wall as art. Let them print the sidewalk in front of your house.
***not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub***
Kids are going to slosh. I think some of your problem is that you have unrealistic expectations. Kid's will slosh. Tell yourself that. Put a bunch of towels on the floor and reconcile yourself to that reality. Get them a little pool for water play outside, too. Reprogram your brain. Water good. Grouchy mom, bad. <g>
***not to open the oven door***
Why not? If they just want to see what's in there, and it has a glass door, leave the light on so they can peek in the window. Are you afraid they'll get hurt? Not sure I understand the oven door issue. Are they climbing on it, sitting on it? Put a stool or two in the kitchen for them to use for climbing and sitting instead.
***not to leave the fridge door open***
Just close the door when you find it open. They're too little to consistently remember that. Did you grow up with parents who didn't want you standing there with the fridge door open while you decided what you wanted? I did. My folks were depression era people . They had ice boxes and their parents hounded them about keeping the icebox door closed. That's because they had to walk for more ice or wait for the delivery guy to come and if the ice was gone before they could get more they were buggered. We don't have ice boxes. Our food will not spoil if little boys forget to close the door. Think about why these things are bugging you and use some logic. *You* close the door and get over the idea that it's a crime for it to be left open.<g>
***not to hit***
Be with them more so you can step in before it gets to the hitting point. They're both too little to have mastered self control. *You* haven't even mastered it if you're yelling, so expecting little kids to have perfect control over big emotions is an unrealistic expectation. They will hit unless you're there to intervene, redirect, distract. As they get older they'll be better able to find other solutions to problems, especially if you are a consistent good example of peaceful problem solving.
***I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
sneered at. ***
Ignored maybe and that's an indication that you're nagging. Every smart person will tune out a nag, so take comfort in the knowledge your kids are smart. <g> But they're really not sneering at you. They have no malice. That feeling that you're being sneered at is from someplace inside of you from times past and it's not fair for you to pin the responsibility for that on your kids. They love you and they would love for you to be as happy as they are. Really.
***The other day we were out and my children were playing in
the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
splashing passers by.***
Sometimes when I'm watering trees in my front yard and someone walks by I have a powerful urge to spray them with the hose. Last weekend when I was watering my garden my dh came to the kitchen screen door and was teasing me. He got blasted. I'm forty five. <g> There's just something nearly irresistable about surprising people with water. If you're a water splashing person then six is too little to have good control over that impulse.
Take them to the fountain when there are fewer people about. Stay near them to either redirect them or warn unsuspecting passersby away. Take them other places for water play. Set up a pool in the yard. Get him a super soaker gun and ask him to water the garden. Turn him loose in the yard with the hose.
***When I approached the fountain and called his
name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
him off.***
I'm sorry. It feels terrible to feel that forlorn and overwhelmed. But people getting splashed with water by a happy kid is not the worst thing that can happen. When he's grown up it will be one of the funny and delightful stories you tell about him. What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your kids think about you. Try to avoid situations where he can splash other folks, *definitely* because that's not cool, but don't make this bigger than it is.
*** Instead of cooking three
meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
children are still up beyond my saturation point.***
That's better for your kids than sit down meals. Be glad you can give them what they want and need. Lots of moms in the world can't feed their kids. Make sit down meals for you and your husband if that feels good to you. Sometimes (maybe) your kids will come join you, but expect them to like grazing and snacking more right now. Change your expectation.
***I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful - I am
doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough - it
feels like I can never satisfy them.***
I hope you're feeling better today. It takes a lot of energy to be a mom.
But it's not fair or realistic to think of your kids as energy suckers. They are kids and they need a lot of attention and food and help and support for their play and activates but there's nothing wrong with that. That is the way of kids. Stop thinking of them as demanding of you and start thinking of them as your partners on a really fun (unpredictable, wacky) expedition.<g>
***And however much I am trying to
respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK - obey) the things
I do ask.***
They are *so* little. So little. And if you're making everything feel like a struggle or a fight they are going to struggle and fight with you. That's human nature. If *you* stop fighting and struggling with them you'll see things change. Don't ask more of them than they can do. If *you* can't stay patient and calm and happy, if you can't cope well then you can't expect it from them. You are the barometer. Your pressure, what you're feeling inside and what you're putting on them, is the thing they have to react to. If you give them a more calm and positive mom you'll see their reactions, over time, become more calm and positive too.
The secret is not to get them to be more obedient, calmer kids. The secret is to make yourself more calm and positive and flexible and mindful. You can never control another person for very long. You can only control your self, your choices, your reactions, your attitude.
***I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
any happier.***
It's a hard thing to justify to others even when your family is happy.<g> Even if your life was as perfect right now as you wish for there would be people telling you how wrong, misguided, irresponsible, negligent and just plain stupid you are. You can decide to get used to it.<g> Focus on what your kids think of you instead.
***I'm worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.***
It does take energy and creativity. Come here or to other lists more often with specific questions. After a few weeks or months of reading suggestions you will start thinking of more creative solutions on your own, but we're always here.
***I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.***
Change is hard. It's hard to change ourselves and our thinking but you're on a list full of people who've done just that and we can give you ideas and suggestions whenever you need them.
***Where am I going wrong?***
Spend more time thinking about what's right. You have two happy kids. You have husband who's on board with unschooling. You have a fountain to play in! (How cool is that?!) You have a couple thousand people at your service here on this list. <g> You have access to lots of unschooling websites and books. You have permission to let that darn refrigerator door stand open. <g> You can let go of ideas and conditioning that are not useful (and probably never were.)
Go stand in front of a full length mirror and see what your kids see. Smile. Relax. Adopt some really positive self talk. Think about what's playing in your head and switch off the negative stuff. Choose to be positive. Choose to think of yourself as a mom getting better at her job every moment. Choose to think of your kids as just right.
When you think of all the things that seem wrong you will get overwhelmed. It will feel impossible to change. Think of the moment. What can you do this moment to make a little more peace in your house. What can you say to your kids to add a little more joy to their play. What can you think about to feel a little more positive right now? Take it moment by moment and in each moment make a positive choice.
Deb Lewis
mom to Dylan, 16, always unschooled
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***I am still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
(nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.***
Nagging and shouting are habits and while they can be a little hard to stop they can stop. Give yourself something else to do instead of nagging and shouting. In that moment when you're about to say something to your kids in frustration - pause - breathe, and make a better choice. You'll yell a few more times before you remember to take a moment before you speak but it will come to you to pause a moment before you speak and choose better words and a better tone.
The belittling maybe a leftover thing from your own childhood and you can stop that too. If it's in your mind or on your tongue to say something harsh just don't speak at all. And then, in your head, turn it into something else. If you were about to say "What's wrong with you, why can't you listen?" In your head, instead, turn that into, "He's so busy and engrossed, I'm glad he's feeling so happy right now."
***not to force the door against its hinges***
Distract them away. Someone once wrote, "delight" them away. Offer up something better and more interesting than the door. That shouldn't be too hard. Don't explain to them again about the hinges. They're too little to care about hinges. Just move them on to something fun and happy. And get used to the idea that houses require maintenance and repairs for these very reasons. Humans can be hard on houses. <g> That's reality. Hinges are not more important than these little boys.
*** not to wave the broom above their heads indoors***
Maybe put away your fragile things for now. Think realistically about whether that broom is really going to hurt anything. Is the broom a sword? A club? Get or make swords or clubs they can wave around.
***not to touch the walls with paint on their hands***
Walls can be washed and or repainted. But you can set up a painting place that's more convenient to them, more convenient for clean up, and you can stay close by to help them and intercept. If they're liking the idea of putting their hand prints on things give them an old sheet or bedspread and let them put their hand prints there. Hang it on the wall as art. Let them print the sidewalk in front of your house.
***not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub***
Kids are going to slosh. I think some of your problem is that you have unrealistic expectations. Kid's will slosh. Tell yourself that. Put a bunch of towels on the floor and reconcile yourself to that reality. Get them a little pool for water play outside, too. Reprogram your brain. Water good. Grouchy mom, bad. <g>
***not to open the oven door***
Why not? If they just want to see what's in there, and it has a glass door, leave the light on so they can peek in the window. Are you afraid they'll get hurt? Not sure I understand the oven door issue. Are they climbing on it, sitting on it? Put a stool or two in the kitchen for them to use for climbing and sitting instead.
***not to leave the fridge door open***
Just close the door when you find it open. They're too little to consistently remember that. Did you grow up with parents who didn't want you standing there with the fridge door open while you decided what you wanted? I did. My folks were depression era people . They had ice boxes and their parents hounded them about keeping the icebox door closed. That's because they had to walk for more ice or wait for the delivery guy to come and if the ice was gone before they could get more they were buggered. We don't have ice boxes. Our food will not spoil if little boys forget to close the door. Think about why these things are bugging you and use some logic. *You* close the door and get over the idea that it's a crime for it to be left open.<g>
***not to hit***
Be with them more so you can step in before it gets to the hitting point. They're both too little to have mastered self control. *You* haven't even mastered it if you're yelling, so expecting little kids to have perfect control over big emotions is an unrealistic expectation. They will hit unless you're there to intervene, redirect, distract. As they get older they'll be better able to find other solutions to problems, especially if you are a consistent good example of peaceful problem solving.
***I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
sneered at. ***
Ignored maybe and that's an indication that you're nagging. Every smart person will tune out a nag, so take comfort in the knowledge your kids are smart. <g> But they're really not sneering at you. They have no malice. That feeling that you're being sneered at is from someplace inside of you from times past and it's not fair for you to pin the responsibility for that on your kids. They love you and they would love for you to be as happy as they are. Really.
***The other day we were out and my children were playing in
the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
splashing passers by.***
Sometimes when I'm watering trees in my front yard and someone walks by I have a powerful urge to spray them with the hose. Last weekend when I was watering my garden my dh came to the kitchen screen door and was teasing me. He got blasted. I'm forty five. <g> There's just something nearly irresistable about surprising people with water. If you're a water splashing person then six is too little to have good control over that impulse.
Take them to the fountain when there are fewer people about. Stay near them to either redirect them or warn unsuspecting passersby away. Take them other places for water play. Set up a pool in the yard. Get him a super soaker gun and ask him to water the garden. Turn him loose in the yard with the hose.
***When I approached the fountain and called his
name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
him off.***
I'm sorry. It feels terrible to feel that forlorn and overwhelmed. But people getting splashed with water by a happy kid is not the worst thing that can happen. When he's grown up it will be one of the funny and delightful stories you tell about him. What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your kids think about you. Try to avoid situations where he can splash other folks, *definitely* because that's not cool, but don't make this bigger than it is.
*** Instead of cooking three
meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
children are still up beyond my saturation point.***
That's better for your kids than sit down meals. Be glad you can give them what they want and need. Lots of moms in the world can't feed their kids. Make sit down meals for you and your husband if that feels good to you. Sometimes (maybe) your kids will come join you, but expect them to like grazing and snacking more right now. Change your expectation.
***I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful - I am
doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough - it
feels like I can never satisfy them.***
I hope you're feeling better today. It takes a lot of energy to be a mom.
But it's not fair or realistic to think of your kids as energy suckers. They are kids and they need a lot of attention and food and help and support for their play and activates but there's nothing wrong with that. That is the way of kids. Stop thinking of them as demanding of you and start thinking of them as your partners on a really fun (unpredictable, wacky) expedition.<g>
***And however much I am trying to
respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK - obey) the things
I do ask.***
They are *so* little. So little. And if you're making everything feel like a struggle or a fight they are going to struggle and fight with you. That's human nature. If *you* stop fighting and struggling with them you'll see things change. Don't ask more of them than they can do. If *you* can't stay patient and calm and happy, if you can't cope well then you can't expect it from them. You are the barometer. Your pressure, what you're feeling inside and what you're putting on them, is the thing they have to react to. If you give them a more calm and positive mom you'll see their reactions, over time, become more calm and positive too.
The secret is not to get them to be more obedient, calmer kids. The secret is to make yourself more calm and positive and flexible and mindful. You can never control another person for very long. You can only control your self, your choices, your reactions, your attitude.
***I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
any happier.***
It's a hard thing to justify to others even when your family is happy.<g> Even if your life was as perfect right now as you wish for there would be people telling you how wrong, misguided, irresponsible, negligent and just plain stupid you are. You can decide to get used to it.<g> Focus on what your kids think of you instead.
***I'm worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.***
It does take energy and creativity. Come here or to other lists more often with specific questions. After a few weeks or months of reading suggestions you will start thinking of more creative solutions on your own, but we're always here.
***I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.***
Change is hard. It's hard to change ourselves and our thinking but you're on a list full of people who've done just that and we can give you ideas and suggestions whenever you need them.
***Where am I going wrong?***
Spend more time thinking about what's right. You have two happy kids. You have husband who's on board with unschooling. You have a fountain to play in! (How cool is that?!) You have a couple thousand people at your service here on this list. <g> You have access to lots of unschooling websites and books. You have permission to let that darn refrigerator door stand open. <g> You can let go of ideas and conditioning that are not useful (and probably never were.)
Go stand in front of a full length mirror and see what your kids see. Smile. Relax. Adopt some really positive self talk. Think about what's playing in your head and switch off the negative stuff. Choose to be positive. Choose to think of yourself as a mom getting better at her job every moment. Choose to think of your kids as just right.
When you think of all the things that seem wrong you will get overwhelmed. It will feel impossible to change. Think of the moment. What can you do this moment to make a little more peace in your house. What can you say to your kids to add a little more joy to their play. What can you think about to feel a little more positive right now? Take it moment by moment and in each moment make a positive choice.
Deb Lewis
mom to Dylan, 16, always unschooled
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Sometimes when I'm watering trees in my front yard and someone walks by I
have a powerful urge to spray them with the hose. Last weekend when I was
watering my garden my dh came to the kitchen screen door and was teasing me.
He got blasted. I'm forty five. <g> There's just something nearly
irresistable about surprising people with water. If you're a water splashing
person then six is too little to have good control over that impulse.
Water play really is crazy fun. And the hose!!! Karl is nuts for spraying
the cats. ;) Lucky lucky me and my diversionary tactics. We're even
luckier in that one of our cats loves attention so much that actually seems
to "get in the way" of the hose when we're there watering the plants. Karl
rarely misses one of those opportunities and I've been known to hit Max for
the heck of it from time to time.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have a powerful urge to spray them with the hose. Last weekend when I was
watering my garden my dh came to the kitchen screen door and was teasing me.
He got blasted. I'm forty five. <g> There's just something nearly
irresistable about surprising people with water. If you're a water splashing
person then six is too little to have good control over that impulse.
Water play really is crazy fun. And the hose!!! Karl is nuts for spraying
the cats. ;) Lucky lucky me and my diversionary tactics. We're even
luckier in that one of our cats loves attention so much that actually seems
to "get in the way" of the hose when we're there watering the plants. Karl
rarely misses one of those opportunities and I've been known to hit Max for
the heck of it from time to time.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your kids think about you.~~
I just thought I'd repeat my favourite line from your kick-ass response, thanks Deb. Many, many words of wisdom. Your email went into my 'important-read-again file'.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just thought I'd repeat my favourite line from your kick-ass response, thanks Deb. Many, many words of wisdom. Your email went into my 'important-read-again file'.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Russell
that is so good, it should be printed on a card & handed out to the parents of kids freaking out in the grocery store
http://www.lisarussell.org because .com and .net were taken
----- Original Message ----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 6:36:52 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Still to many "no"s
~~What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your kids think about you.~~
I just thought I'd repeat my favourite line from your kick-ass response, thanks Deb. Many, many words of wisdom. Your email went into my 'important-read- again file'.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.lisarussell.org because .com and .net were taken
----- Original Message ----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 6:36:52 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Still to many "no"s
~~What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your kids think about you.~~
I just thought I'd repeat my favourite line from your kick-ass response, thanks Deb. Many, many words of wisdom. Your email went into my 'important-read- again file'.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
~~What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as
important as
what your kids think about you.~~
What other people think about our kids can be important, though.
Most anyone splashed by a six year old, I think, is going to
understand that someone who is only six might be impulsive. That
doesn't mean they'll like getting splashed because the splasher was
only six. It you don't want to be splashed it doesn't matter who
does the splashing. It feels wrong and bad. But generally, people
are going to understand about a little kid.
Not so about a fourteen year old or a sixteen year old. So I'm not
at all advocating that this or any mom should relax and ignore her
kids while they splash folks who are not participating in the water
play.
Our kids will be living on this planet their whole lives and we
should be helping them learn the things that will make living here
better and easier for them. Consideration for others is important
on a planet with six billion people. It's not cool to let our kids
infringe on the rights of others.
The original poster felt out of control and overwhelmed and even
cried. That seemed to me to be more about what others would think of
her parenting than about the actual splashing. Our fear of what
others will think of us can lead us to make some crappy choices about
how we treat our kids.
When Dylan was younger, and our ideas were new to people, (and new to
us!) no one agreed with us. Not my folks, not David's, not our
siblings, not our friends, no strangers, no professionals, no
neighbors. I still have one neighbor who talks about our family...
not to me, but to the people in her art club and at her church and I
hear about it because I know other people from her art club and
church.<g> Of all the people on her street that she might talk
about, (and we have some interesting folks here!) she talks about
us. But we must seem very warped to her, she's a former teacher, she
runs the adult literacy program here in town and she does tutoring
and helps people get ready for tests like the GED. She'd call me
sometimes to tell me Dylan was playing outside (as if I might not
have noticed) and, "shouldn't he be doing his school work?"<g>
No one ever called CPS or organized an intervention and few bothered
to talk in any meaningful way *to us* about what they thought was
wrong. Part of that must have been because of Dylan. There he was,
obviously happy, a nice kid, undeniably smart. So they had some
vague fears but no evidence, and they snorted and huffed but they
didn't *hurt* us. And that's how it will be for most of the rest of
you, too. The more confident you are in your choices the more you
will inspire others to leave you alone. <g>
It helps if you accept that other people have a right to their wrong
opinions.<g>
I very much feel entitled to think what I think about my neighbor AND
her kids and grand kids.<g>
If I had cared what all those people thought of my parenting I might
have been a mom who spanked and used time out. I might have enforced
TV limits and bedtimes and food rules. I might have sent my kid to
school. Because that's what parents do here . That's how it is.
My way's better.<g>
If we're going to do what's best for our kids then we have to be
looking at our kids. Not all around at the neighbors and strangers
and in-laws but right at our kids. In fifteen years it won't matter
what a stranger thought of you one hot summer afternoon but it will
matter what your kids think of you. And what they will think of you
in fifteen years will be made up of all the little moments between
now and then.
Deb Lewis
important as
what your kids think about you.~~
What other people think about our kids can be important, though.
Most anyone splashed by a six year old, I think, is going to
understand that someone who is only six might be impulsive. That
doesn't mean they'll like getting splashed because the splasher was
only six. It you don't want to be splashed it doesn't matter who
does the splashing. It feels wrong and bad. But generally, people
are going to understand about a little kid.
Not so about a fourteen year old or a sixteen year old. So I'm not
at all advocating that this or any mom should relax and ignore her
kids while they splash folks who are not participating in the water
play.
Our kids will be living on this planet their whole lives and we
should be helping them learn the things that will make living here
better and easier for them. Consideration for others is important
on a planet with six billion people. It's not cool to let our kids
infringe on the rights of others.
The original poster felt out of control and overwhelmed and even
cried. That seemed to me to be more about what others would think of
her parenting than about the actual splashing. Our fear of what
others will think of us can lead us to make some crappy choices about
how we treat our kids.
When Dylan was younger, and our ideas were new to people, (and new to
us!) no one agreed with us. Not my folks, not David's, not our
siblings, not our friends, no strangers, no professionals, no
neighbors. I still have one neighbor who talks about our family...
not to me, but to the people in her art club and at her church and I
hear about it because I know other people from her art club and
church.<g> Of all the people on her street that she might talk
about, (and we have some interesting folks here!) she talks about
us. But we must seem very warped to her, she's a former teacher, she
runs the adult literacy program here in town and she does tutoring
and helps people get ready for tests like the GED. She'd call me
sometimes to tell me Dylan was playing outside (as if I might not
have noticed) and, "shouldn't he be doing his school work?"<g>
No one ever called CPS or organized an intervention and few bothered
to talk in any meaningful way *to us* about what they thought was
wrong. Part of that must have been because of Dylan. There he was,
obviously happy, a nice kid, undeniably smart. So they had some
vague fears but no evidence, and they snorted and huffed but they
didn't *hurt* us. And that's how it will be for most of the rest of
you, too. The more confident you are in your choices the more you
will inspire others to leave you alone. <g>
It helps if you accept that other people have a right to their wrong
opinions.<g>
I very much feel entitled to think what I think about my neighbor AND
her kids and grand kids.<g>
If I had cared what all those people thought of my parenting I might
have been a mom who spanked and used time out. I might have enforced
TV limits and bedtimes and food rules. I might have sent my kid to
school. Because that's what parents do here . That's how it is.
My way's better.<g>
If we're going to do what's best for our kids then we have to be
looking at our kids. Not all around at the neighbors and strangers
and in-laws but right at our kids. In fifteen years it won't matter
what a stranger thought of you one hot summer afternoon but it will
matter what your kids think of you. And what they will think of you
in fifteen years will be made up of all the little moments between
now and then.
Deb Lewis
Ren Allen
~~In fifteen years it won't matter
what a stranger thought of you one hot summer afternoon but it will
matter what your kids think of you. And what they will think of you
in fifteen years will be made up of all the little moments between
now and then.~~
That's one of my "re-framing" tools. I use a couple of shifts in
perspective to help me in rough moments. One is imagining how I would
act if myself or the other person were terminal. It gives me a good
dose of patience.
One of the other one's is imagining that I'm talking to the child as
an adult, and remembering this moment with them. What do I want them
to remember? How do I hope they'll remember my interactions with them?
Because we aren't just talking to a child, we're talking to an adult
in a different phase of development.
Ren
what a stranger thought of you one hot summer afternoon but it will
matter what your kids think of you. And what they will think of you
in fifteen years will be made up of all the little moments between
now and then.~~
That's one of my "re-framing" tools. I use a couple of shifts in
perspective to help me in rough moments. One is imagining how I would
act if myself or the other person were terminal. It gives me a good
dose of patience.
One of the other one's is imagining that I'm talking to the child as
an adult, and remembering this moment with them. What do I want them
to remember? How do I hope they'll remember my interactions with them?
Because we aren't just talking to a child, we're talking to an adult
in a different phase of development.
Ren
amberlee_b
Great idea! Could you imagine the look on a parent's face when they go that business card.
LOL But I love the quote and the idea. Would be great cross-stitched and hung in the LR
too. Thanks for sharing.
LOL But I love the quote and the idea. Would be great cross-stitched and hung in the LR
too. Thanks for sharing.
--- In [email protected], Lisa Russell <lisalisarussell@...> wrote:
>
> that is so good, it should be printed on a card & handed out to the parents of kids freaking
out in the grocery store
> ~~What those strangers think about you as a parent isn't nearly as important as what your
kids think about you.~~
>
>
amberlee_b
thank you for these beautiful and eloquent posts. I have to work on this daily. I know
what I went through as a child and I think once in a while I feel resentful that my children
have it soooo good. Not of my children personally, but I think some of you understand?
I just keep putting one foot in front of the the other as my kids continue to be the dear,
sweet, loving souls they are...and continue to remind myself that they are just kids still
learning and so am I.
This Labor Day we went to the community park to picnic and have fun. There were kittens
(maybe 4-6 months old, so not too kitteny) that had been dumped off there sometime
between Monday of last week when we had been there and yesterday. There is just
something about an animal or person in need that we are completely unable to avoid.
<g> So now we have 4 cats instead of two. My eldest son found the first one. He had
been praying for another pet (his dog died of rat poisioning this past Feb and we are still
broken up about it as we don't have anything like that here in our home....) and this kitty
walked right up to him.
The second kitty my other son found. He has such a dear sweet heart and when the kitty
wanted to get down, he did so...but she ran away and he couldn't find her again. I was
able to let him stay at the picnic area with some friends of ours to continue to look for the
kitty. The young woman who he stayed with is from Russia and she wanted me to know
how sweet my son was for caring for one of God's creatures in such a way. A creature he
didn't "know". That she was excited that I would "let" my son continue to look even
though there was a strong chance that the kitty was gone. She thanked me for seeing
what my son needed and not saying "no" or dragging him home. All I could think of was
what parent would do that....but she also made me realize that we made the right decision
for us to unschool. He eventually went back and sat in the area where he found Kara the
kitty originally and she came to him. How many people would see this child as weak for
standing up for the "little guy" or being a protector of the weak? How many would see his
tears and believe we didn't toughen him up enough? How many would have taken this
almost 10 year old and told him to "straighten up" or "quit being a baby" or "stop your
blabbering" or said the cat was just a stupid animal and would find a way to survive. I
don't like to think about how many.
I am very thankful for this list and having found you all. Your words of wisdom have been
insightful and helpful! Huggs, Now off to bathe kittens and prepare them to meet the rest
of the family. LOL
Amberlee
what I went through as a child and I think once in a while I feel resentful that my children
have it soooo good. Not of my children personally, but I think some of you understand?
I just keep putting one foot in front of the the other as my kids continue to be the dear,
sweet, loving souls they are...and continue to remind myself that they are just kids still
learning and so am I.
This Labor Day we went to the community park to picnic and have fun. There were kittens
(maybe 4-6 months old, so not too kitteny) that had been dumped off there sometime
between Monday of last week when we had been there and yesterday. There is just
something about an animal or person in need that we are completely unable to avoid.
<g> So now we have 4 cats instead of two. My eldest son found the first one. He had
been praying for another pet (his dog died of rat poisioning this past Feb and we are still
broken up about it as we don't have anything like that here in our home....) and this kitty
walked right up to him.
The second kitty my other son found. He has such a dear sweet heart and when the kitty
wanted to get down, he did so...but she ran away and he couldn't find her again. I was
able to let him stay at the picnic area with some friends of ours to continue to look for the
kitty. The young woman who he stayed with is from Russia and she wanted me to know
how sweet my son was for caring for one of God's creatures in such a way. A creature he
didn't "know". That she was excited that I would "let" my son continue to look even
though there was a strong chance that the kitty was gone. She thanked me for seeing
what my son needed and not saying "no" or dragging him home. All I could think of was
what parent would do that....but she also made me realize that we made the right decision
for us to unschool. He eventually went back and sat in the area where he found Kara the
kitty originally and she came to him. How many people would see this child as weak for
standing up for the "little guy" or being a protector of the weak? How many would see his
tears and believe we didn't toughen him up enough? How many would have taken this
almost 10 year old and told him to "straighten up" or "quit being a baby" or "stop your
blabbering" or said the cat was just a stupid animal and would find a way to survive. I
don't like to think about how many.
I am very thankful for this list and having found you all. Your words of wisdom have been
insightful and helpful! Huggs, Now off to bathe kittens and prepare them to meet the rest
of the family. LOL
Amberlee
logan_rose_porter
--- In [email protected], "Deb Lewis" <d.lewis@...> wrote
'zone in' and everyone else doesnt exist. It is just a private conversation between he and I. I
never notice if others are giving me looks for not 'disciplining' him or not being controlling,
because I honestly dont even see them there in the moment. Does anyone else find
themselves doing this?
>I find whenever my son is acting in a way that needs support/redirecting in public I tend to
> If we're going to do what's best for our kids then we have to be
> looking at our kids. Not all around at the neighbors and strangers
> and in-laws but right at our kids. In fifteen years it won't matter
> what a stranger thought of you one hot summer afternoon but it will
> matter what your kids think of you. And what they will think of you
> in fifteen years will be made up of all the little moments between
> now and then.
>
'zone in' and everyone else doesnt exist. It is just a private conversation between he and I. I
never notice if others are giving me looks for not 'disciplining' him or not being controlling,
because I honestly dont even see them there in the moment. Does anyone else find
themselves doing this?
juillet727
"That's one of my "re-framing" tools. I use a couple of shifts in
I also imagine how I'd act if we were taking home movies--because if
we were taking home movies, I wouldn't want to be acting like a jerk!
(Just trying to see the positive side of one of my less loved
characteristics.)
~~Juillet
> perspective to help me in rough moments. One is imagining how I wouldI do this too; it's very useful.
> act if myself or the other person were terminal. It gives me a good
> dose of patience.
>
> One of the other one's is imagining that I'm talking to the child as
> an adult, and remembering this moment with them. What do I want them
> to remember? How do I hope they'll remember my interactions with them?
> Because we aren't just talking to a child, we're talking to an adult
> in a different phase of development."
I also imagine how I'd act if we were taking home movies--because if
we were taking home movies, I wouldn't want to be acting like a jerk!
(Just trying to see the positive side of one of my less loved
characteristics.)
~~Juillet
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 2, 2008, at 6:33 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
voiced inside my kid's head. If I'm being unreasonable (from their
point of view), then they're saying/thinking silently - "She's so
unfair," or "She's not listening," or "She doesn't even care about
ME," or "She cares about them more than about me," or "She's pushing
me around just because she's a grown-up," or even, worst case, "I HATE
her!"
Parents seem to think they can control children's thoughts. When they
snap at them to stop splashing, they think the kid is thinking, "Oh -
Mom's right - I should stop splashing people walking by, that's not
thoughtful of me to do that." But, most likely, they're thinking, "She
doesn't want me to have any fun."
If a kid is already mature enough/developed enough to care to be
thoughtful of others in that situation, then they'll appreciate a
reminder that other people are walking by. That means just saying,
"Oh, there are people getting splashed," or even just a nod in the
people's direction is enough because THEN the kid will think, "Whoops,
they don't want to get splashed," and will change their own behavior
of their own choice because of their OWN thoughtfulness. Sometimes
they might even have the fleeting thought - "Glad mom noticed and
informed me." (Not in those words, but the sense of that idea, anyway.)
If a kid isn't mature enough/developed enough to be thoughtful and
caring in that kind of situation, yet, then parents telling them to be
thoughtful won't make them so. Parents who don't want to flat-out
control kids through the blunt-force methods (spanking, yelling,
nagging, time-outs, take-aways, shaming, threatening) have to be
prepared with other alternatives to control-methods - many of those
ways involve planning ahead and setting the stage for successful happy
outcomes.
I see, over and over, parents setting the stage for conflict. Going to
that fountain in the first place was probably an example of setting
the stage for conflict.
Recently I was in the mall, sitting at a table sipping coffee, waiting
for my girls who were shopping. I watched a parent with a couple of
young children, as she ran into a friend. They stopped RIGHT at the
bottom of the escalator and started to chat. She ignored her two
little boys - about 3 and 5ish. Pretty soon they were playing at the
foot of the escalator, then stepping up onto it and trying to go up
(it was coming down). She was oblivious, talking to her friend. For a
few minutes there were no people coming down. The boys were running up
it, getting better and better at it. It was a little dangerous because
the younger boy was really not steady and the older one kept bumping
him - I was having the urge to go stand right there to soften his
fall, if he went down a few steps. But then there were people coming
down. The first ones had to squeeze around the boys. Mom didn't
notice. The second group had shopping bags and couldn't get easily
past the boys - one of them sharply said, "This is for going DOWN, not
UP!" That got mom's embarrassed attention and she turned around and
grabbed the little one and yanked him out of the way and sharply said
to the older one, "You KNOW better than that. Get over here and stand
right next to me and don't move." Turned back to her friend.
This is a very very normal everyday interaction that would not be
considered harsh at all, by most parents. Sit in a busy mall and you
can see an equivalent scenario played out every few minutes.
My point is that the mom set the stage for the problem to occur - it
was ENTIRELY her doing. I could see it coming the minute she stopped
there to talk to her friend.
Alternative - "Hi. Oh it IS good to see you. Give me a call so we can
talk sometime, I'd love to hear from you." Move on. Or, "It is SO
great to see you. Here - let's move over here in front of the pet
store so the boys can look at the puppies while we talk for a minute."
Or maybe you buy them a frozen yogurt or a pretzel or something. OR
you sit at a table (remember, I was sitting nearby at a coffee place
with tables) and pull out the games/toys/etc that you keep in your bag
JUST for this kind of purpose. And, you say to the boys, "This is my
friend Jane - I haven't seen her for a while and would really like to
talk to her for a few minutes, if that's okay."
Be prepared - think ahead - treat the children with the utmost
courtesy - where do you think they'll learn it, otherwise?
-pam
> That's one of my "re-framing" tools. I use a couple of shifts inMy most-used reframing took is to imagine what response is being
> perspective to help me in rough moments. One is imagining how I would
> act if myself or the other person were terminal. It gives me a good
> dose of patience.
>
> One of the other one's is imagining that I'm talking to the child as
> an adult, and remembering this moment with them. What do I want them
> to remember? How do I hope they'll remember my interactions with them?
> Because we aren't just talking to a child, we're talking to an adult
> in a different phase of development.
voiced inside my kid's head. If I'm being unreasonable (from their
point of view), then they're saying/thinking silently - "She's so
unfair," or "She's not listening," or "She doesn't even care about
ME," or "She cares about them more than about me," or "She's pushing
me around just because she's a grown-up," or even, worst case, "I HATE
her!"
Parents seem to think they can control children's thoughts. When they
snap at them to stop splashing, they think the kid is thinking, "Oh -
Mom's right - I should stop splashing people walking by, that's not
thoughtful of me to do that." But, most likely, they're thinking, "She
doesn't want me to have any fun."
If a kid is already mature enough/developed enough to care to be
thoughtful of others in that situation, then they'll appreciate a
reminder that other people are walking by. That means just saying,
"Oh, there are people getting splashed," or even just a nod in the
people's direction is enough because THEN the kid will think, "Whoops,
they don't want to get splashed," and will change their own behavior
of their own choice because of their OWN thoughtfulness. Sometimes
they might even have the fleeting thought - "Glad mom noticed and
informed me." (Not in those words, but the sense of that idea, anyway.)
If a kid isn't mature enough/developed enough to be thoughtful and
caring in that kind of situation, yet, then parents telling them to be
thoughtful won't make them so. Parents who don't want to flat-out
control kids through the blunt-force methods (spanking, yelling,
nagging, time-outs, take-aways, shaming, threatening) have to be
prepared with other alternatives to control-methods - many of those
ways involve planning ahead and setting the stage for successful happy
outcomes.
I see, over and over, parents setting the stage for conflict. Going to
that fountain in the first place was probably an example of setting
the stage for conflict.
Recently I was in the mall, sitting at a table sipping coffee, waiting
for my girls who were shopping. I watched a parent with a couple of
young children, as she ran into a friend. They stopped RIGHT at the
bottom of the escalator and started to chat. She ignored her two
little boys - about 3 and 5ish. Pretty soon they were playing at the
foot of the escalator, then stepping up onto it and trying to go up
(it was coming down). She was oblivious, talking to her friend. For a
few minutes there were no people coming down. The boys were running up
it, getting better and better at it. It was a little dangerous because
the younger boy was really not steady and the older one kept bumping
him - I was having the urge to go stand right there to soften his
fall, if he went down a few steps. But then there were people coming
down. The first ones had to squeeze around the boys. Mom didn't
notice. The second group had shopping bags and couldn't get easily
past the boys - one of them sharply said, "This is for going DOWN, not
UP!" That got mom's embarrassed attention and she turned around and
grabbed the little one and yanked him out of the way and sharply said
to the older one, "You KNOW better than that. Get over here and stand
right next to me and don't move." Turned back to her friend.
This is a very very normal everyday interaction that would not be
considered harsh at all, by most parents. Sit in a busy mall and you
can see an equivalent scenario played out every few minutes.
My point is that the mom set the stage for the problem to occur - it
was ENTIRELY her doing. I could see it coming the minute she stopped
there to talk to her friend.
Alternative - "Hi. Oh it IS good to see you. Give me a call so we can
talk sometime, I'd love to hear from you." Move on. Or, "It is SO
great to see you. Here - let's move over here in front of the pet
store so the boys can look at the puppies while we talk for a minute."
Or maybe you buy them a frozen yogurt or a pretzel or something. OR
you sit at a table (remember, I was sitting nearby at a coffee place
with tables) and pull out the games/toys/etc that you keep in your bag
JUST for this kind of purpose. And, you say to the boys, "This is my
friend Jane - I haven't seen her for a while and would really like to
talk to her for a few minutes, if that's okay."
Be prepared - think ahead - treat the children with the utmost
courtesy - where do you think they'll learn it, otherwise?
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 2, 2008, at 8:29 AM, logan_rose_porter wrote:
parents - I just posted about the opposite, parents who don't seem
very aware of the needs of their children, when they are out in
public. But, being oblivious to what else is going on isn't good,
either. I'm thinking of times that a child is very upset - maybe
screaming and crying - and a parent is being comforting and soothing
and listening and doing all the right things - very zoned in on the
child. But they are sometimes SO zoned in that the parent doesn't
realize that they are disrupting a bunch of other people's lives. I
prefer to see the parents keeping some awareness of time and space -
usually that would mean gently moving the screaming child away from a
group of people so that they can continue what they were doing.
-pam
> I find whenever my son is acting in a way that needs support/Being able to focus on a child in need is a really good thing for
> redirecting in public I tend to
> 'zone in' and everyone else doesnt exist. It is just a private
> conversation between he and I. I
> never notice if others are giving me looks for not 'disciplining'
> him or not being controlling,
> because I honestly dont even see them there in the moment. Does
> anyone else find
> themselves doing this?
parents - I just posted about the opposite, parents who don't seem
very aware of the needs of their children, when they are out in
public. But, being oblivious to what else is going on isn't good,
either. I'm thinking of times that a child is very upset - maybe
screaming and crying - and a parent is being comforting and soothing
and listening and doing all the right things - very zoned in on the
child. But they are sometimes SO zoned in that the parent doesn't
realize that they are disrupting a bunch of other people's lives. I
prefer to see the parents keeping some awareness of time and space -
usually that would mean gently moving the screaming child away from a
group of people so that they can continue what they were doing.
-pam