Julie

I asked this q and was advised to post it here. I am desperate and
need some feedback from experienced unschoolers...I am very new to
this and moving slowly....I think it is me who needs the most
unschooling...
My daughter is 4, I have 2 other children...a 7yr old son and a 1yr
old daughter. My problems are mostly with my 4yr old daughter. She is
a child that needs lots of attention, and goes through periods where
nothing I do is right. She demands service "get me a drink". I
explain that asking politely makes me feel much more like doing it.
Story time at night is my biggest issue....I end up losing it
completely and being really horrible to her. Generally it goes like
this. Bubba is tired, and happy to bf while I read to the
others(although this is starting to change and she is wanting her
books too). My 7yr old is happy to wait for his story/chapter. My
4yr old has 2-4stories and tonight a back scratch too, fairly
uninterrupted by bubba (but not always the case). Then it is my sons
turn for his chapter or 2....my 4yr old starts...chatting, jumping on
the bed, asking 7yr old if he wants to play, fight....etc I explain
calmly that she has had her stories, and her brother now wants to hear
his story...he has been quiet and patient, and now it is her turn to
be quiet and let him have his turn. We all share the same room and
beds...by their choice. I attempt to read again.....almost instantly
the chatter, jumping, noise starts again....this goes on and on...me
talking about respecting her brothers turn as he did hers, that it is
hard to read with all the noise and jumping......A 10min read often
takes an hour or more! I get to a point where I let her know I am
getting really cross and her brother also tells her to be quiet. It
continues....I eventually loose it and start yelling and screaming.
Tonight my son asked if it would be easier if he had his turn
tomorrow....he has more patience than me often! I ended up putting my
daughter out of the room to finish the chapter, she screamed and
screamed and I got more wild! I told her it was her last chance to
stay quiet ( we had only got through a couple of paragraphs by now).
My son ended up in tears, as did my 4 yr old because I got so angry I
must have looked like a crazy woman...he said it always ended up with
a short read for him in between me and my daughter having a fight!
How do I get it clear to my 4yr old that she is being unfair??
When I am calm I can see the following:
My 4yr old is tired and wants her bf and doesn't want to wait.
She is not interested in his stories.
She doesn't know what to do while waiting....and is naturally an
active child.
I need help at bed time with story reading so all are getting their
fair share (on the odd occasion my partner will read to the 4yr old
and it works a treat).
I need to calm down and find ways to express my anger other than
threats, yelling and generally being mean.
Any advice.
I am new to unschooling but I so want to do this and it sits so right
with me....just not sure how to deal with what comes up when my 4yr
old is in constant demand of service or satisfaction of her needs NOW
despite the fact that there are 2 other children and a father also
wanting their needs met. And ways to calm myself to address her and
not shame her.
HELP

Ryan

--- In [email protected], "Julie" <barnesosborne@...>
wrote:
>
> I asked this q and was advised to post it here. I am desperate and
> need some feedback from experienced unschoolers...I am very new to
> this and moving slowly....I think it is me who needs the most
> unschooling...


Hi. I have a 7yr old boy, a 4yr old daughter, and a brand new 3 week
old son, so on that level we're in similar territory. My daughter is
also beginning to get demanding, pushy, and insistent on getting what
she wants when she wants it. Part of it, I'm convinced, is her age.
That 4th year is a tough one, since they're getting old enough to
want a lot and be aggressive about doing it, but not yet developed
enough to have a lot of impulse control. I have to remind myself
fairly regularly that, when she's getting demanding and wanting it
NOW that she really can't help it. Impulse control is in fact an
issue of brain development, and by 5 that starts getting better. I'm
also assuming that there's a bit of frustration on her part over the
baby, since my wife and I are suddenly a lot less present for her,
and she's a little unsettled about no longer being the youngest.

That said, I think I'd try all sorts of different arrangements and
options, since I don't think, in the short term, there's an easy way
to change her behavior. Maybe stop trying to read to them all at
once? Obviously the family bed makes that more difficult, but what
about reading to them individually? Baby first, then once the baby
is happy, your daughter. Your son can probably hold on until
everyone else is settled before he gets his turn. I suspect that,
for the time being, your daughter may need a lot of extra attention,
which obviously isn't easy to provide in your current situation, but
may be the best option for both of you. My wife has started making
extra time just for her and my daughter, special time for the two of
them, and that already seems to be helping.

I would also try to enlist your partner in this more. Why is it your
job to get everyone to sleep all at once? Why is it a treat when
your partner reads to your children? Shouldn't that be more of a
regular thing? My sense is trying to work this alone, or with
minimal help from your partner, is only going to make it more
complicated to fix and more frustrating for everyone along the way.

And if the act of reading is getting you that frustrated, which I can
totally understand, then I'd stop doing it. That time together
should be good, happy time for everyone, and if it isn't, then I
wouldn't try to do it. When you reach the spot where you're getting
frustrated, just tell them that mommy is getting frustrated and needs
to stop story time for now. And stop. And remind yourself
(regularly) that your daughter simply cannot help the way she's
acting, so there's no reason to be angry with her. I try to see all
behavior from my children as purposeful and necessary (for them) and
then try to understand why they're acting that way and what they need
from me to help them through it.

Those are just some initial thoughts.

Judy R

I didn't unschool when my kids were this young - it developed later for us, so hopefully some people with kids the same age will have more helpful advice than mine - however, here's my shot at it.

I'm guessing this means you have set bedtimes - is that necessary do you think? Perhaps there could be free-choice bed-times, or falling asleep wherever they are, and read at other times - disconnect the two things, maybe no bedtime routine? As I say, someone with kids the same age will need to respond to what they do around bedtimes.

The other thing I thought of is the PET thing; The book "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and How to Listen so Kids will Talk" has some good ideas about this kind of thing.
- some time other than while it is going on, talk to your daughter - it's a kind of unraveling of her thoughts until you get to what is really bothering her about the whole thing - so you say something like - "It seems like you don't like it when I read to your brother at night.." and then whatever she says, you reflect it back "So you don't like it when you have to wait for me to finish reading before taking care of you"... or whatever -

and whatever they say is *totally* acceptable, so don't do it when your son is around because they may want to say things like "I hate Jimmie and wish he was dead" and you have to be ready to hear that and not react with "You don't really mean that" - you don't argue or use it as a point of lecturing them or anything, you just keep reflecting it back. In fact, you might want to prepare ahead of time and think about what you *will* say if she says something like that - you're not really supposed to "interpret" for them, but you might say something like "You wish mommy spent more time with you instead of Jimmie" - which doesn't mean you're going to do that, just that you are trying to get at her feelings. The idea is that it allows them to express whatever it is that bothering them and that often that is enough for them, that you have heard them and acknowledged their feelings (that's how it works in the book anyway!)

- and also go through the same thing with your son -

You could also try getting them to brainstorm a solution together: "OK, we have this problem - what do you guys think we could do about it" and you write down their suggestions - you can limit it to non-viloent or something - maybe say it's not OK to say "drown Jimmie in the bathtub" but allow silly tings like "Maybe our fairygodmother will come and put us all to sleep", whatever - and once you have a list, you go back through it and cross out anything that one or the other doesn't agree to - *hopefully* at the end you have at least one thing they both agree with - if not, you have to go again. And it might not work at all, so you just say, OK this isn't working we'll have to try something else.

Anyway, BEST OF LUCK!!!!! Judy R

----- Original Message -----
From: Julie
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] dealing with my anger and my 4yr old daughter


I asked this q and was advised to post it here. I am desperate and
need some feedback from experienced unschoolers...I am very new to
this and moving slowly....I think it is me who needs the most
unschooling...
My daughter is 4, I have 2 other children...a 7yr old son and a 1yr
old daughter. My problems are mostly with my 4yr old daughter. She is
a child that needs lots of attention, and goes through periods where
nothing I do is right. She demands service "get me a drink". I
explain that asking politely makes me feel much more like doing it.
Story time at night is my biggest issue....I end up losing it
completely and being really horrible to her. Generally it goes like
this. Bubba is tired, and happy to bf while I read to the
others(although this is starting to change and she is wanting her
books too). My 7yr old is happy to wait for his story/chapter. My
4yr old has 2-4stories and tonight a back scratch too, fairly
uninterrupted by bubba (but not always the case). Then it is my sons
turn for his chapter or 2....my 4yr old starts...chatting, jumping on
the bed, asking 7yr old if he wants to play, fight....etc I explain
calmly that she has had her stories, and her brother now wants to hear
his story...he has been quiet and patient, and now it is her turn to
be quiet and let him have his turn. We all share the same room and
beds...by their choice. I attempt to read again.....almost instantly
the chatter, jumping, noise starts again....this goes on and on...me
talking about respecting her brothers turn as he did hers, that it is
hard to read with all the noise and jumping......A 10min read often
takes an hour or more! I get to a point where I let her know I am
getting really cross and her brother also tells her to be quiet. It
continues....I eventually loose it and start yelling and screaming.
Tonight my son asked if it would be easier if he had his turn
tomorrow....he has more patience than me often! I ended up putting my
daughter out of the room to finish the chapter, she screamed and
screamed and I got more wild! I told her it was her last chance to
stay quiet ( we had only got through a couple of paragraphs by now).
My son ended up in tears, as did my 4 yr old because I got so angry I
must have looked like a crazy woman...he said it always ended up with
a short read for him in between me and my daughter having a fight!
How do I get it clear to my 4yr old that she is being unfair??
When I am calm I can see the following:
My 4yr old is tired and wants her bf and doesn't want to wait.
She is not interested in his stories.
She doesn't know what to do while waiting....and is naturally an
active child.
I need help at bed time with story reading so all are getting their
fair share (on the odd occasion my partner will read to the 4yr old
and it works a treat).
I need to calm down and find ways to express my anger other than
threats, yelling and generally being mean.
Any advice.
I am new to unschooling but I so want to do this and it sits so right
with me....just not sure how to deal with what comes up when my 4yr
old is in constant demand of service or satisfaction of her needs NOW
despite the fact that there are 2 other children and a father also
wanting their needs met. And ways to calm myself to address her and
not shame her.
HELP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]