Alfie Kohn
Kim Musolff
I just watched Alfie Kohn's video based on his book, "Unconditional
Parenting." He's got me hooked. I'm going to check out the actual book
from the library tomorrow, and stop using punishments/rewards/praise ASAP!
My question is this: For those of you (most of you, I assume) who do not
punish/reward/praise, how do you draw the line between practicing this
"parenting with" style (as Kohn calls it) and being a permissive parent,
letting them do whatever they want? Any suggestions/advice on how to
implement this in real life?
Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Parenting." He's got me hooked. I'm going to check out the actual book
from the library tomorrow, and stop using punishments/rewards/praise ASAP!
My question is this: For those of you (most of you, I assume) who do not
punish/reward/praise, how do you draw the line between practicing this
"parenting with" style (as Kohn calls it) and being a permissive parent,
letting them do whatever they want? Any suggestions/advice on how to
implement this in real life?
Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/ praise?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yep, We never have to. No one has to. It is a choice. You choose to.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-
It is a lot about how you look at the situation and how you look at your child.It is a huge shift in the way of mainstream thinking.
Unschooling parents are not permissive.
Permissiveness is neglect and unparenting. We are the opposite. We are MORE present, involved, connected.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yep, We never have to. No one has to. It is a choice. You choose to.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-
It is a lot about how you look at the situation and how you look at your child.It is a huge shift in the way of mainstream thinking.
Unschooling parents are not permissive.
Permissiveness is neglect and unparenting. We are the opposite. We are MORE present, involved, connected.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
never have to punish/reward/praise. You definitely have to change the
way you view everything about your relationship with your child.
Rather than looking at it as letting them do whatever they want in the
way I think you mean (mainstream spoiling), look at it as finding ways
to let everyone be happy and joyful and be themselves. It's about
being more present with your children. It's the antithesis of
permissiveness.
For example, when my 4yo wants to jump on and off the couch I could
think of all the ways he might get hurt or the furniture might get
broken and not let him do that. Or, I could find ways to make it safe
for him and my furniture so that we could both have fun with it.
Rather than saying, "Good job," when he makes something, I can
say, "Wow. You worked really hard on that, huh?" or even just, "Look
what you made!" If you don't force someone to do something they don't
want to do, you don't need to reward them when they do something. They
do it because they want to and don't expect anything for it. You can
say, "Thank you," of course.
Alysia
wrote:
>do not
> My question is this: For those of you (most of you, I assume) who
> punish/reward/praise, how do you draw the line between practicingthis
> "parenting with" style (as Kohn calls it) and being a permissiveparent,
> letting them do whatever they want? Any suggestions/advice on how toabout a
> implement this in real life?
>
> Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it more
> change in how you look at each situation?I'm not perfect at this but I'm definitely working on it. But, no, you
>
> Kim
never have to punish/reward/praise. You definitely have to change the
way you view everything about your relationship with your child.
Rather than looking at it as letting them do whatever they want in the
way I think you mean (mainstream spoiling), look at it as finding ways
to let everyone be happy and joyful and be themselves. It's about
being more present with your children. It's the antithesis of
permissiveness.
For example, when my 4yo wants to jump on and off the couch I could
think of all the ways he might get hurt or the furniture might get
broken and not let him do that. Or, I could find ways to make it safe
for him and my furniture so that we could both have fun with it.
Rather than saying, "Good job," when he makes something, I can
say, "Wow. You worked really hard on that, huh?" or even just, "Look
what you made!" If you don't force someone to do something they don't
want to do, you don't need to reward them when they do something. They
do it because they want to and don't expect anything for it. You can
say, "Thank you," of course.
Alysia
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...>
I just watched Alfie Kohn's video based on his book, "Unconditional
Parenting." He's got me hooked. I'm going to check out the actual book
from the library tomorrow, and stop using punishments/rewards/praise
ASAP!
My question is this: For those of you (most of you, I assume) who do
not
punish/reward/praise, how do you draw the line between practicing this
"parenting with" style (as Kohn calls it) and being a permissive parent,
letting them do whatever they want? Any suggestions/advice on how to
implement this in real life?
-=-==-=-=-=
Say "yes" more. Be the parent you wish you'd had (or more correctly,
the parent your CHILD wishes he could have).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
-=-=-=-=-
You don't ever HAVE to do *anything*. Each and every decision we make
can be a choice. It IS a choice. We can choose to be generous,
trusting, patient, kind, curious, and respectful. Or not.
It is certainly a change in perspective. A paradigm shift. It's about
considering *why* we would choose to say "no." Is it because it's what
was told to us? Why? What will it hurt? What's another option? How can
we *make* it work?
If you can give me a good reason to punish my children and proof that
it works, maybe I'll start punishing them. I haven't found a good
reason.
Rewards happen naturally. I don't need to come up with some rewards
"system" to get my kids to do things. If they want to do something, I
figure learning that thing is reward enough. What would I "reward" them
*for*? That whole Pizza Hut reading program simply pisses me off.
I won't say we don't ever praise. It just probably looks a little
different. Cameron has asked to make supper. Every night. Cool. Tonight
he's in there pounding chicken and stuffing it with basil and cheese.
He'll pour a white cream sauce over the top and serve it with
bruschetta and a salad. If it's good, I'll damn well tell him! <G>
Duncan just got to level ten with a new WoW character last night. When
he told us he got a new pet for reaching that level, we all said
"COOL!" We were excited *for* him.
I'm genuinely thrilled when they are pleased with what they accomplish.
I have no problem telling them so. But it's not empty praise so that I
can get them to do things---or to encourage "good behavior" or
anything. It's real and no more or less than I would give to my husband
or a friend.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...>
I just watched Alfie Kohn's video based on his book, "Unconditional
Parenting." He's got me hooked. I'm going to check out the actual book
from the library tomorrow, and stop using punishments/rewards/praise
ASAP!
My question is this: For those of you (most of you, I assume) who do
not
punish/reward/praise, how do you draw the line between practicing this
"parenting with" style (as Kohn calls it) and being a permissive parent,
letting them do whatever they want? Any suggestions/advice on how to
implement this in real life?
-=-==-=-=-=
Say "yes" more. Be the parent you wish you'd had (or more correctly,
the parent your CHILD wishes he could have).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it more about a
change in how you look at each situation?
-=-=-=-=-
You don't ever HAVE to do *anything*. Each and every decision we make
can be a choice. It IS a choice. We can choose to be generous,
trusting, patient, kind, curious, and respectful. Or not.
It is certainly a change in perspective. A paradigm shift. It's about
considering *why* we would choose to say "no." Is it because it's what
was told to us? Why? What will it hurt? What's another option? How can
we *make* it work?
If you can give me a good reason to punish my children and proof that
it works, maybe I'll start punishing them. I haven't found a good
reason.
Rewards happen naturally. I don't need to come up with some rewards
"system" to get my kids to do things. If they want to do something, I
figure learning that thing is reward enough. What would I "reward" them
*for*? That whole Pizza Hut reading program simply pisses me off.
I won't say we don't ever praise. It just probably looks a little
different. Cameron has asked to make supper. Every night. Cool. Tonight
he's in there pounding chicken and stuffing it with basil and cheese.
He'll pour a white cream sauce over the top and serve it with
bruschetta and a salad. If it's good, I'll damn well tell him! <G>
Duncan just got to level ten with a new WoW character last night. When
he told us he got a new pet for reaching that level, we all said
"COOL!" We were excited *for* him.
I'm genuinely thrilled when they are pleased with what they accomplish.
I have no problem telling them so. But it's not empty praise so that I
can get them to do things---or to encourage "good behavior" or
anything. It's real and no more or less than I would give to my husband
or a friend.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 9, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Kim Musolff wrote:
Seriously - when they hear about it, they are sort of fascinated by
the idea, but they don't understand why parents would do it.
Reward? Praise? Some, yes. Very carefully, though, especially when
they were young. It can SO easily backfire. I always tried to see the
reality behind each situation. Was I praising or rewarding in hope of
"shaping" the child's behavior? I tried not to do that. Were we simply
celebrating together? That's just fine and dandy. Was I giving
feedback that was requested and honest? Fine.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it moreWe absolutely never punish. The very idea is foreign to my kids.
> about a
> change in how you look at each situation?
Seriously - when they hear about it, they are sort of fascinated by
the idea, but they don't understand why parents would do it.
Reward? Praise? Some, yes. Very carefully, though, especially when
they were young. It can SO easily backfire. I always tried to see the
reality behind each situation. Was I praising or rewarding in hope of
"shaping" the child's behavior? I tried not to do that. Were we simply
celebrating together? That's just fine and dandy. Was I giving
feedback that was requested and honest? Fine.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~
about sharing their excitement and pride.
When I started my beehives I had several people leave comments at my
blog like "way to go" and such. That's sharing pride WITH me. My
feelings about it don't hinge on what anyone else thinks or says.
Feedback is useful. Real feedback that gives a learner different ways
to view a situation (if they want it). Real feedback is NOT "good job"
or "that's pretty"...it's very specific. The kind of things you'd say
to a friend.
Adults in intimate relationships don't usually punish each
other...that wouldn't be viewed as healthy. Yet children are subjected
to this poor treatment all the time. Can't you remember feeling all
the adults were so unfair? I don't remember any of my punishments
feeling fair or really learning anything other than anger towards adults.
Jalen was really getting grumpy a couple days ago, telling everyone
"shut up" and slamming doors. When he came back into the room after a
mild explosion (it's best to let him have a few minutes on his own
before approaching him again) I walked over and said "you look really
frustrated Jalen, can I hug you?" as I'm leaning towards him. He
melted into my arms and we just sat and cuddled while he told me "why
my life sucks" stuff.
I could have punished him for lashing out and being "rude" to
everyone. I could have told him he was rotten for saying "shut up"
when Sierra was being sweet to him. How would that help him when he's
so obviously overwhelmed at the moment? Hugs and love go a long ways
to smoothing over rough moments and I feel he is actually learning
MORE about how to cope and how to navigate life by having that safety.
Punishment drives a wedge between the perpetrator and victim. It
lessens trust and it makes for a hierarchal relationship. Not what I
want with my children.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
> Do you really NEVER have to punish/reward/praise? Or is it moreI never punish or reward. Praise isn't really traditional praise, more
> about a change in how you look at each situation?~~
about sharing their excitement and pride.
When I started my beehives I had several people leave comments at my
blog like "way to go" and such. That's sharing pride WITH me. My
feelings about it don't hinge on what anyone else thinks or says.
Feedback is useful. Real feedback that gives a learner different ways
to view a situation (if they want it). Real feedback is NOT "good job"
or "that's pretty"...it's very specific. The kind of things you'd say
to a friend.
Adults in intimate relationships don't usually punish each
other...that wouldn't be viewed as healthy. Yet children are subjected
to this poor treatment all the time. Can't you remember feeling all
the adults were so unfair? I don't remember any of my punishments
feeling fair or really learning anything other than anger towards adults.
Jalen was really getting grumpy a couple days ago, telling everyone
"shut up" and slamming doors. When he came back into the room after a
mild explosion (it's best to let him have a few minutes on his own
before approaching him again) I walked over and said "you look really
frustrated Jalen, can I hug you?" as I'm leaning towards him. He
melted into my arms and we just sat and cuddled while he told me "why
my life sucks" stuff.
I could have punished him for lashing out and being "rude" to
everyone. I could have told him he was rotten for saying "shut up"
when Sierra was being sweet to him. How would that help him when he's
so obviously overwhelmed at the moment? Hugs and love go a long ways
to smoothing over rough moments and I feel he is actually learning
MORE about how to cope and how to navigate life by having that safety.
Punishment drives a wedge between the perpetrator and victim. It
lessens trust and it makes for a hierarchal relationship. Not what I
want with my children.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com