carnationsgalore

So much of what I read about unschooling seems to be geared toward
younger children like under the age of 10. What about families who
are wanting to move into this lifestyle with older children? Do you
think it's more difficult or easier, or does it even matter?

My oldest is 15 and in high school. She doesn't have any interest
in homeschooling even though there are many things she doesn't like
about school. I've always supported her needs and wants though and
I don't push the school's agenda. I believe it's all her choice and
I do my best to just be here for her as she needs me. Her wish is
to go to culinary school and she likes the food & nutrition program
at school. Her dad (we're divorced) wants her to be in AP classes
and preparing for college but she doesn't want that. Poor thing.
She walks a very fine line between what she wants and what she knows
her dad wants for her.

My other two are ages 9 and 11. My dd9 has spent some time in
public school by her choice and then she came home when she was
tired of it. That was last September actually. Since then we've
tried some different curricula but nothing that has sparked an
interest. While I haven't forced things, I haven't let go either.
My ds11 has been using a traditional textbook program. He likes
structure and routine and has mostly enjoyed the work though I know
he'd much prefer to just stop doing it altogether. Again, I have
trouble letting go. I've reached the point though where I am
dreading pulling out materials. I find other things to do and on
those days the kids and I are happy. But I always keep the school
stuff in the back of my mind. It's like I feel okay taking a couple
of days off because I know we can catch up later. I'd like to let
that go completely. I feel like it's too late in the game for us
but surely it's not.

I've ordered a couple of books to read and have been rereading my
other favorites. I love Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child and
Alison McKee's Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves.
And yet as many times as I've read those books I can't seem to let
go and become a true unschooler. We have unschooling periods that
have lasted several months at a time. How do I make it a forever
lifestyle rather than vacations? Does that even make sense? :)

Beth

squeakybiscuit

I am very interested to hear responses to this, as my kids are older,
and I, too, have experienced a difficulty in letting go. We go
through spells of "vacations" then I get scared that they may fall
behind.







--- In [email protected], "carnationsgalore"
<addled.homemaker@...> wrote:
>
> So much of what I read about unschooling seems to be geared toward
> younger children like under the age of 10. What about families who
> are wanting to move into this lifestyle with older children? Do
you
> think it's more difficult or easier, or does it even matter?
>
> My oldest is 15 and in high school. She doesn't have any interest
> in homeschooling even though there are many things she doesn't like
> about school. I've always supported her needs and wants though and
> I don't push the school's agenda. I believe it's all her choice
and
> I do my best to just be here for her as she needs me. Her wish is
> to go to culinary school and she likes the food & nutrition program
> at school. Her dad (we're divorced) wants her to be in AP classes
> and preparing for college but she doesn't want that. Poor thing.
> She walks a very fine line between what she wants and what she
knows
> her dad wants for her.
>
> My other two are ages 9 and 11. My dd9 has spent some time in
> public school by her choice and then she came home when she was
> tired of it. That was last September actually. Since then we've
> tried some different curricula but nothing that has sparked an
> interest. While I haven't forced things, I haven't let go either.
> My ds11 has been using a traditional textbook program. He likes
> structure and routine and has mostly enjoyed the work though I know
> he'd much prefer to just stop doing it altogether. Again, I have
> trouble letting go. I've reached the point though where I am
> dreading pulling out materials. I find other things to do and on
> those days the kids and I are happy. But I always keep the school
> stuff in the back of my mind. It's like I feel okay taking a
couple
> of days off because I know we can catch up later. I'd like to let
> that go completely. I feel like it's too late in the game for us
> but surely it's not.
>
> I've ordered a couple of books to read and have been rereading my
> other favorites. I love Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child and
> Alison McKee's Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves.
> And yet as many times as I've read those books I can't seem to let
> go and become a true unschooler. We have unschooling periods that
> have lasted several months at a time. How do I make it a forever
> lifestyle rather than vacations? Does that even make sense? :)
>
> Beth
>

Mark V Fullerton

In [email protected], "carnationsgalore"
<addled.homemaker@...> wrote:
"We have unschooling periods that
have lasted several months at a time. How do I make it a forever
lifestyle rather than vacations? Does that even make sense?"

A comfortable transitional attitude for you might be to choose to
unschool for one year, rather than forever. Then the anxieties you may
continue to have about "falling behind" academically may be balanced
by the liklihood that your dd will be "getting ahead" spiritually and
emotionally. Then in another year you can see where you're at and go
from there.

Nicole Willoughby

Ok hopefully this post wont end up too scatterbrained and tie together in the end. I cant claim to be an experienced unschooler because my oldest is 8 but hopefully my experience will be somewhat relevant anyway.

First I was honest with my 8 year old and told her if you choose to go back to school in 3rd or 4th or whenever they may consider you behind in some areas. This does not mean you are dumb in any way it simply means that you didnt study what the government decided you should study at a certain time.

Unschooling imo dosent mean that one never uses a textbook of any kind. It just dosent in any way limit them to learing by textbooks. When I was 14 I left the us for a year as an exchange student in finland. During the year I traveled to many countries and did almost no schoolwork but wow it would take pages to describe all I experienced and learned. However, I came back to the US and was "behind" at school.

At 18 I decided I wanted to go to nursing school and spent about 9 days studying for the entrance exam. Me and my lovely d average in highschool aced it and I was accepted to one of 20 spots out of 200 applying that year.

My daughter decided to make muffins the other day. She thought the recipe said 1-2 cups of milk when it was actually calling for one half cup. She learned so much more about fractions that day than all the little worksheet shading exercises on fractions she has done. She also learned something I consider very valuable...mistakes are simply learning experiences and usualy not a big deal. We added more dry ingredients to make up for the extra milk and got a double batch of muffins. yum!

Do I worry that my kids will get behind? Yes there is always that nagging little voice in the back of my mind. Most if not all of us have been conditioned since childhood that we are supposed to follow the standard path....study what we are told no matter how uninteresting it is at that particular time , get good grades and go to college, enter into the standard hetrosexual marriage and have 2.2 children.

Another poster suggested taking it a year at a time. This is what we are doing right now.
Another thing Im starting is keeping a scrapbook and journal. I plan to use it to go back over the year and realize wow my kids did cover a lot and have something to show certain overconcerned family members that are sure to flip a lid when they find out we are unschooling. <g>.

One more thing ....this is something that Im working on with my own children right now so please dont take it as an attack. You gotta show your children that you truly trust them to learn what they need when they need/want to. If you get away from the books and they seem to do nothing but play x-box for 3 months and then you get back to the books they see mom is gonna let us have a break for a while but then she is gonna get all crazy on us again <g>.

So sit back and relax. give help if they ask in the way they want the help. Offer help but prepared to step back if they decline. When the behind monster starts to show herslef feed her some choclate, bite your tongue, take up a new hobby and go read lots of unschooling stuff. I highly suggest Sandra Dodd's website.

Nicole



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Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 17, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Nicole Willoughby wrote:
>
> First I was honest with my 8 year old and told her if you choose to
> go back to school in 3rd or 4th or whenever they may consider you
> behind in some areas. This does not mean you are dumb in any way it
> simply means that you didnt study what the government decided you
> should study at a certain time.
>

I really wouldn't talk about going back to school - I mean, it
happens, but not often enough for that to be a concern at the very
beginning of your homeschooling journey.

> Unschooling imo dosent mean that one never uses a textbook of any
> kind. It just dosent in any way limit them to learing by textbooks.

Even schooled kids are not limited to learning by textbooks. (In fact,
my oldest daughter went to school for 5 years and never had a single
textbook in all that time, so there are schools that don't use
textbooks at all.) If someone was relying on using textbooks as a
backup to make sure their kids don't get behind, that is contrary to
unschooling philosophy.


>
>
> Do I worry that my kids will get behind? Yes there is always that
> nagging little voice in the back of my mind.

Eventually you might discover you are living as if there is no such
thing as school, and you won't have that little voice in your head
anymore. It isn't inevitable that we even know what school kids are
being taught (notice I don't say "learning) in school. The more you
can ignore it, just not know, the better.

> Another poster suggested taking it a year at a time. This is what we
> are doing right now.

I'm not sure what taking it a year at a time entails, but if it keeps
you thinking about whether or not the kids are "behind" then it might
not be such a great idea.

>
> Another thing Im starting is keeping a scrapbook and journal. I plan
> to use it to go back over the year and realize wow my kids did cover
> a lot and have something to show certain overconcerned family
> members that are sure to flip a lid when they find out we are
> unschooling. <g>.

What if they don't do anything that results in output that can go into
the scrapbook? Is that going to concern you? I mean, what if their
year involves many hours of movie watching, game playing,
conversation, and pretend play? Scrapbook implies some kind of product
to put into it.

Journaling is an excellent idea - just don't feel that what you
journal about has to be "educational." Write things that the kids do,
listen to, watch, talk about, visit, play, make, create, and so on.
And don't feel bad if, after a while, you no longer feel the need to
keep it up. As you feel fully confident that the kids are always
learning, you might not feel like spending your time documenting it
anymore.

> One more thing ....this is something that Im working on with my own
> children right now so please dont take it as an attack. You gotta
> show your children that you truly trust them to learn what they need
> when they need/want to. If you get away from the books and they seem
> to do nothing but play x-box for 3 months and then you get back to
> the books they see mom is gonna let us have a break for a while but
> then she is gonna get all crazy on us again <g>.

Good advice.
Just one quibble - "get away from the books?" I think you meant get
away from required schoolwork, but my kids would really object to
equating "books" with "schoolwork."
>
>
> So sit back and relax. give help if they ask in the way they want
> the help. Offer help but prepared to step back if they decline. When
> the behind monster starts to show herslef feed her some choclate,
> bite your tongue, take up a new hobby and go read lots of
> unschooling stuff. I highly suggest Sandra Dodd's website.
>

Again, good advice, but I'm a little concerned that it sounds like an
unschooling parent sits back and waits for kids to ask for help. All
child-directed, child-initiated, child-driven? That's not enough.
Parents should work pretty darn hard (it might be really fun, but it
takes energy, time, commitment) to create an exciting and stimulating
rich and wonderful world for the children to experience.

-Pam


> Nicole



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nicole Willoughby

I really wouldn't talk about going back to school - I mean, it
happens, but not often enough for that to be a concern at the very
beginning of your homeschooling journey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In my particular situation the information was asked for by my daughter. I do see how its negative in reply to this post though


Eventually you might discover you are living as if there is no such
thing as school, and you won't have that little voice in your head
anymore. It isn't inevitable that we even know what school kids are
being taught (notice I don't say "learning) in school. The more you
can ignore it, just not know, the better.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I do hope I get to this point very soon

.Just one quibble - "get away from the books?" I think you meant get
away from required schoolwork, but my kids would really object to
equating "books" with "schoolwork. ">>>>>>>>>

Yes! Thank you get away from required schoolwork is exactly what I meant.


Again, good advice, but I'm a little concerned that it sounds like an
unschooling parent sits back and waits for kids to ask for help. All
child-directed, child-initiated, child-driven? That's not enough.
Parents should work pretty darn hard (it might be really fun, but it
takes energy, time, commitment) to create an exciting and stimulating
rich and wonderful world for the children to experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let me try to explain what I was trying to say. :) I didnt mean that all unschooling parents sit back and expect their children to do it all for themselves.
I did think that if the op's children has to do schoolwork up intill a certain age they might at first take moms suggestions as mom trying to make them do more schoolwork.
Im not tryig to say one shouldnt offer help, make suggestions for things to do and so on. just that if a child dosent want the help right now you should step back .....trying to figure out when and how this child might want help but not forcing anything on him.















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Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 17, 2008, at 10:10 PM, Nicole Willoughby wrote:

> Let me try to explain what I was trying to say. :) I didnt mean that
> all unschooling parents sit back and expect their children to do it
> all for themselves.
> I did think that if the op's children has to do schoolwork up intill
> a certain age they might at first take moms suggestions as mom
> trying to make them do more schoolwork.

Good point. Better for mom to "pretend" they are on vacation and she
is trying to give them the best vacation imaginable. Forget totally
about whether they are learning what they need to learn - that will
take care of itself, really.

>
> Im not tryig to say one shouldnt offer help, make suggestions for
> things to do and so on. just that if a child dosent want the help
> right now you should step back .....trying to figure out when and
> how this child might want help but not forcing anything on him.

Absolutely.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>


So much of what I read about unschooling seems to be geared toward
younger children like under the age of 10. What about families who
are wanting to move into this lifestyle with older children? Do you
think it's more difficult or easier, or does it even matter?

-=-=-=-=-=-

It's funny: This week, it's all about littluns. But three weeks ago it
was about teens and drinking or sex or drugs. <g>

It all comes and goes! <G>

Our story began when Cameron was 12 and we took him out of a private
prep school after sixth grade. He just turned 20 last month.

I think it's been a LOT easier with his younger brother, Duncan, now
almost 12 and always unschooled.

-=-=-=-=-=-

I've ordered a couple of books to read and have been rereading my
other favorites. I love Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child and
Alison McKee's Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves.
And yet as many times as I've read those books I can't seem to let
go and become a true unschooler. We have unschooling periods that
have lasted several months at a time. How do I make it a forever
lifestyle rather than vacations? Does that even make sense? :)

-=-=-=-

Where do you live?

We may be able to hool you up with other unshcoolers nearby.

And is it possible for you to make it to an unschooling conference? We
have quite a few this year. That would make a HUGE difference!!

There's also Not Back to School Camp.




~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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carnationsgalore

> If you get away from the books and they seem to do nothing but
> play x-box for 3 months and then you get back to the books they
> see mom is gonna let us have a break for a while but then she is
> gonna get all crazy on us again <g>.
> Nicole

Hi Nicole,

Great encouraging post, thank you! I quoted the above because it has
definitely been an issue for me in the past. But my reasoning, er
excuse, is boredom. I love your idea of a journal and perhaps I
should write myself a letter to place at the front of it explaining
why I believe this is the right thing to do so I can reread it when
we're feeling bored.

Beth Moore

carnationsgalore

> Where do you live?
> We may be able to hool you up with other unshcoolers nearby.

I live in Forsyth County in Georgia. In the 6 years we've been
homeschooling, we haven't been very successful in hooking up with
other people.

> And is it possible for you to make it to an unschooling
> conference?
> ~Kelly

My dd9 and I were looking at the Live and Learn conference information
just last night. We'd love to attend and will probably do so if we
can manage the money.

Beth

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/17/2008 9:17:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
addled.homemaker@... writes:

My oldest is 15 and in high school. She doesn't have any interest
in homeschooling even though there are many things she doesn't like
about school. I've always supported her needs and wants though and
I don't push the school's agenda. I believe it's all her choice and
I do my best to just be here for her as she needs me. Her wish is
to go to culinary school and she likes the food & nutrition program
at school. Her dad (we're divorced) wants her to be in AP classes
and preparing for college but she doesn't want that. Poor thing.
She walks a very fine line between what she wants and what she knows
her dad wants for her.



___________

that is SO us! Grace is 15, and she decided finaly, to leave HS and be home,
unschooling. It's a process, and it's ok. My older son, 18, did something
similar, and the basic guide, of deschooling taking place for about 1 month for
each year schooled was nearly dead-on with James :) After 13 months of no
schooling, he began really enjoying looking things up on his own, finding more
interests and becoming fully himself. Grace is still in the process and I
expect it to take some time. But your daughter could begin following those ideas
if she were NOT in school - but I know that's tough. Grace didn't want to
leave school because she has the (wrong) impression that homeschoolers were
"losers." It's REALLY hard at times - her Dad wants to see her work, hold it in
his hands, get reports from me, all of that - so it's a toughie, but we're
figuring it out. Good luck to you all!

Karen



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