Deschooking was new here and need advice
Nance Confer
Hi Anna --
Deschooling is the time after you leave institutional schooling and transition into unschooling or homeschooling where you give yourselves as much time as it takes (a month for every year in school is one rule of thumb but . . .) to recover from the problems that you picked up along the way there, the time where you panic (it happens less and less as you go along :) ) that "he's not learning anthing!" and we talk you down off the roof, the time where you and your son learn to look at life instead of subjects and living instead of passing a test or a grade, the time where you learn to let go of many of the schoolish ideas that have been drummed into your head and get on with enjoying yourself.
Nance
Re: New here and need advice.
Posted by: "Anna" annabear526@... defeidy
Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:40 pm (PST)
Hi Nance - Thank you for the helpful reply too. You ladies are great.
I haven't looked into deschooling yet. What exactly is that? I'm off
to check the link you sent me. Thank you again. :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deschooling is the time after you leave institutional schooling and transition into unschooling or homeschooling where you give yourselves as much time as it takes (a month for every year in school is one rule of thumb but . . .) to recover from the problems that you picked up along the way there, the time where you panic (it happens less and less as you go along :) ) that "he's not learning anthing!" and we talk you down off the roof, the time where you and your son learn to look at life instead of subjects and living instead of passing a test or a grade, the time where you learn to let go of many of the schoolish ideas that have been drummed into your head and get on with enjoying yourself.
Nance
Re: New here and need advice.
Posted by: "Anna" annabear526@... defeidy
Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:40 pm (PST)
Hi Nance - Thank you for the helpful reply too. You ladies are great.
I haven't looked into deschooling yet. What exactly is that? I'm off
to check the link you sent me. Thank you again. :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
Okay, I need help with this issue still! Woo hoo, did my patience get put to the test tonight!!! Bedtime has become the most dreaded time of the day for me...how on earth do unschoolers just let this one be?!?!? Please share with me!!! We do a routine of bath (which they love), pjs, bottle (my milk totally petered at 8 months or I'd likely still be nursing - another one of my plans that went completely the other way!). Then we read books until they're tired, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour or more. They have been marvelous go-to-bedders - thank god - until recently when they say they're tired, then they decide to play this game usually after the light is out and they're all tucked in of 'I need something'...then they get whatever, say they're tired again, ask to be tucked in, then it's 'I need something' again...and again...and again...and again...until I'm in the kitchen between 'I need something' s pulling my hair out of my head, breathing trying not
to scream, and generally having a tantrum but not letting them see it. Dh is usually laying between them until they fall asleep because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things' and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
them not trusting me 100% or feeling loved unconditinally, but what do I do?!?!? How actually does non-coercion not result in chaos and me being at my wits end???
Thanks for reading this longer-than-I-planned rant! :o)
In gratitude for all of you!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to scream, and generally having a tantrum but not letting them see it. Dh is usually laying between them until they fall asleep because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things' and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
them not trusting me 100% or feeling loved unconditinally, but what do I do?!?!? How actually does non-coercion not result in chaos and me being at my wits end???
Thanks for reading this longer-than-I-planned rant! :o)
In gratitude for all of you!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
dreaded time of the day for me...how on earth do unschoolers just
let this one be?!?!? Please share with me!!! We do a routine of
bath (which they love), pjs, bottle (my milk totally petered at 8
months or I'd likely still be nursing - another one of my plans that
went completely the other way!). Then we read books until they're
tired, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour or more. They
have been marvelous go-to-bedders - thank god - until recently when
they say they're tired, then they decide to play this game usually
after the light is out and they're all tucked in of 'I need
something'...then they get whatever, say they're tired again, ask to
be tucked in, then it's 'I need something' again...and again...and
again...and again...until I'm in the kitchen between 'I need
something' s pulling my hair out of my head, breathing trying not
because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many
darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their
rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan
to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their
needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any
advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a
prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with
the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you
have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things'
and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I
know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's
only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a
meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
chaos and me being at my wits end???
they want those things before bed. If my daughter is hungry she will
wait until we are all tucked in and wiggle for a while and then ask
for bread and butter. I try really hard to make sure hse is not
hungry before we get tucked in
are they tired? If they are not really tired then the can not relax
and go to sleep. lat night my 3 yr old went to bed after 1am. I
finally got her and 5 yr old sister to eat and then told them that
if they wanted to stay up and watch movies that was fine but I was
going to bed. As I get ready for bed they wandered in and crawled in
my bed with me- we sleep in till 10 am and my husband is currently
deployed
can you make bedtime later?
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>patience get put to the test tonight!!! Bedtime has become the most
> Okay, I need help with this issue still! Woo hoo, did my
dreaded time of the day for me...how on earth do unschoolers just
let this one be?!?!? Please share with me!!! We do a routine of
bath (which they love), pjs, bottle (my milk totally petered at 8
months or I'd likely still be nursing - another one of my plans that
went completely the other way!). Then we read books until they're
tired, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour or more. They
have been marvelous go-to-bedders - thank god - until recently when
they say they're tired, then they decide to play this game usually
after the light is out and they're all tucked in of 'I need
something'...then they get whatever, say they're tired again, ask to
be tucked in, then it's 'I need something' again...and again...and
again...and again...until I'm in the kitchen between 'I need
something' s pulling my hair out of my head, breathing trying not
> to scream, and generally having a tantrum but not letting themsee it. Dh is usually laying between them until they fall asleep
because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many
darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their
rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan
to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their
needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any
advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a
prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with
the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you
have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things'
and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I
know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's
only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a
meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
> them not trusting me 100% or feeling loved unconditinally, butwhat do I do?!?!? How actually does non-coercion not result in
chaos and me being at my wits end???
>make a note of all the things they want when in bed and ask them if
> Thanks for reading this longer-than-I-planned rant! :o)
>
> In gratitude for all of you!
>
> Jodi
>
they want those things before bed. If my daughter is hungry she will
wait until we are all tucked in and wiggle for a while and then ask
for bread and butter. I try really hard to make sure hse is not
hungry before we get tucked in
are they tired? If they are not really tired then the can not relax
and go to sleep. lat night my 3 yr old went to bed after 1am. I
finally got her and 5 yr old sister to eat and then told them that
if they wanted to stay up and watch movies that was fine but I was
going to bed. As I get ready for bed they wandered in and crawled in
my bed with me- we sleep in till 10 am and my husband is currently
deployed
can you make bedtime later?
Jodi Bezzola
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in, and we usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff and gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be later - they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very tired by 8 p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside for a nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work for them to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive and very much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering what they were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or not without someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't be such a big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they need! And at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation?? Sometimes during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your response - every little bit helps!
Jodi
wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
dreaded time of the day for me...how on earth do unschoolers just
let this one be?!?!? Please share with me!!! We do a routine of
bath (which they love), pjs, bottle (my milk totally petered at 8
months or I'd likely still be nursing - another one of my plans that
went completely the other way!). Then we read books until they're
tired, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour or more. They
have been marvelous go-to-bedders - thank god - until recently when
they say they're tired, then they decide to play this game usually
after the light is out and they're all tucked in of 'I need
something'...then they get whatever, say they're tired again, ask to
be tucked in, then it's 'I need something' again...and again...and
again...and again...until I'm in the kitchen between 'I need
something' s pulling my hair out of my head, breathing trying not
because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many
darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their
rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan
to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their
needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any
advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a
prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with
the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you
have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things'
and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I
know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's
only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a
meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
chaos and me being at my wits end???
they want those things before bed. If my daughter is hungry she will
wait until we are all tucked in and wiggle for a while and then ask
for bread and butter. I try really hard to make sure hse is not
hungry before we get tucked in
are they tired? If they are not really tired then the can not relax
and go to sleep. lat night my 3 yr old went to bed after 1am. I
finally got her and 5 yr old sister to eat and then told them that
if they wanted to stay up and watch movies that was fine but I was
going to bed. As I get ready for bed they wandered in and crawled in
my bed with me- we sleep in till 10 am and my husband is currently
deployed
can you make bedtime later?
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your response - every little bit helps!
Jodi
wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>patience get put to the test tonight!!! Bedtime has become the most
> Okay, I need help with this issue still! Woo hoo, did my
dreaded time of the day for me...how on earth do unschoolers just
let this one be?!?!? Please share with me!!! We do a routine of
bath (which they love), pjs, bottle (my milk totally petered at 8
months or I'd likely still be nursing - another one of my plans that
went completely the other way!). Then we read books until they're
tired, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour or more. They
have been marvelous go-to-bedders - thank god - until recently when
they say they're tired, then they decide to play this game usually
after the light is out and they're all tucked in of 'I need
something'...then they get whatever, say they're tired again, ask to
be tucked in, then it's 'I need something' again...and again...and
again...and again...until I'm in the kitchen between 'I need
something' s pulling my hair out of my head, breathing trying not
> to scream, and generally having a tantrum but not letting themsee it. Dh is usually laying between them until they fall asleep
because they ask for that. I just feel like I jump through SO many
darn hoops to avoid them having a tantrum or locking them in their
rooms until they fall asleep (which we've never done and don't plan
to start now!). I'm really trying to see the balance between their
needs and mine, but quite frankly, mine rarely if ever get met. Any
advice?? I know that many of the 'discipline' books are just a
prettier way of controlling kids, but I'm really at my wits end with
the girls! People are telling me that 'you're the parent and you
have to take control or it's the kids who are controlling things'
and 'you have to give them a choice and then follow through', but I
know before I start when it's about something like bedtime that it's
only going to create distance between the girls and I, result in a
meltdown on their part, a power struggle, and
> them not trusting me 100% or feeling loved unconditinally, butwhat do I do?!?!? How actually does non-coercion not result in
chaos and me being at my wits end???
>make a note of all the things they want when in bed and ask them if
> Thanks for reading this longer-than-I-planned rant! :o)
>
> In gratitude for all of you!
>
> Jodi
>
they want those things before bed. If my daughter is hungry she will
wait until we are all tucked in and wiggle for a while and then ask
for bread and butter. I try really hard to make sure hse is not
hungry before we get tucked in
are they tired? If they are not really tired then the can not relax
and go to sleep. lat night my 3 yr old went to bed after 1am. I
finally got her and 5 yr old sister to eat and then told them that
if they wanted to stay up and watch movies that was fine but I was
going to bed. As I get ready for bed they wandered in and crawled in
my bed with me- we sleep in till 10 am and my husband is currently
deployed
can you make bedtime later?
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
marji
At 08:04 1/26/2008, Kelly wrote:
house. Liam has always let me know when he was ready for bed, and
then we'd do it. Because the timing was always up to him, he never,
ever stayed awake longer than he wanted to. And, by the time he was
ready, he was ready! It helps, I suppose, that we always
co-slept. I'd read to him, and if he fell asleep before I did, I'd
get up after he fell asleep. If I fell asleep too, that was okay.
This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
loving and joyful time. It still is!
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to getThis is an excellent question! We have never had a bedtime in our
>ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
>or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
>movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
house. Liam has always let me know when he was ready for bed, and
then we'd do it. Because the timing was always up to him, he never,
ever stayed awake longer than he wanted to. And, by the time he was
ready, he was ready! It helps, I suppose, that we always
co-slept. I'd read to him, and if he fell asleep before I did, I'd
get up after he fell asleep. If I fell asleep too, that was okay.
This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
loving and joyful time. It still is!
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janet
Ditto for me and my 6 kids. We never had a bedtime, until a kid said
"Hey, I want to do something in the morning, I'm going to bed at 10
tonight!" and they did. We also co-slept, and we pretty much all
went to bed together when the kids were little. Once they had their
own rooms/beds (varying in age from 5 - um... she's 10 and still
usually with us!) they would go to bed whenever they wanted. I didn't
care as long as they let me go to bed when I was tired!
janet in MN homeschool mom to 6 - now ages 26, 23, 20, 18, 14, and 10
At 07:45 AM 1/26/2008, you wrote:
"Hey, I want to do something in the morning, I'm going to bed at 10
tonight!" and they did. We also co-slept, and we pretty much all
went to bed together when the kids were little. Once they had their
own rooms/beds (varying in age from 5 - um... she's 10 and still
usually with us!) they would go to bed whenever they wanted. I didn't
care as long as they let me go to bed when I was tired!
janet in MN homeschool mom to 6 - now ages 26, 23, 20, 18, 14, and 10
At 07:45 AM 1/26/2008, you wrote:
>At 08:04 1/26/2008, Kelly wrote:
> >Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
> >ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
> >or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
> >movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
>
>This is an excellent question! We have never had a bedtime in our
>house. Liam has always let me know when he was ready for bed, and
>then we'd do it. Because the timing was always up to him, he never,
>ever stayed awake longer than he wanted to. And, by the time he was
>ready, he was ready! It helps, I suppose, that we always
>co-slept. I'd read to him, and if he fell asleep before I did, I'd
>get up after he fell asleep. If I fell asleep too, that was okay.
>
>This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
>and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
>loving and joyful time. It still is!
>
>~Marji
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
loving and joyful time. It still is!
-=-=-=-=-=
It's good to understand your goal.
Is it to get the girls in bed/asleep?
OR
Is it to have a peaceful evening?
State your goal and then think about how you can best work towards that
goal.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
loving and joyful time. It still is!
-=-=-=-=-=
It's good to understand your goal.
Is it to get the girls in bed/asleep?
OR
Is it to have a peaceful evening?
State your goal and then think about how you can best work towards that
goal.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Jodi Bezzola
Hi Kelly, I'm going to actually answer some of your questions because maybe it will help clarify things for me even more.
~~How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
It takes over an hour for sure, probably closer to an hour and a half. They love their bath so they usually hang out there for quite awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and that's when the fun starts.
~~What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
I go to bed around 10, my husband a little later. I go to yoga early in the mornings (it's the only time I'm alone and I'm a pretty crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent I don't think it could be! If you mean the bedtime ritual with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the ritual.
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine. By that time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main reason I'm asking for help!
~~Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
The sun doesn't come up on their side of the house, plus we have a pull-down blackout blind on their window. They wake up in the pitch dark every day ready to move!
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I described it above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when there are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
Thanks for listening,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
It takes over an hour for sure, probably closer to an hour and a half. They love their bath so they usually hang out there for quite awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and that's when the fun starts.
~~What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
I go to bed around 10, my husband a little later. I go to yoga early in the mornings (it's the only time I'm alone and I'm a pretty crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent I don't think it could be! If you mean the bedtime ritual with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the ritual.
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine. By that time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main reason I'm asking for help!
~~Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
The sun doesn't come up on their side of the house, plus we have a pull-down blackout blind on their window. They wake up in the pitch dark every day ready to move!
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I described it above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when there are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
Thanks for listening,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 10:29 1/26/2008, Jodi wrote:
I had already had 37 years of "me" time, and, since I invited Liam
into my life, I could devote my time to him (as much as he needed)
until he didn't need me so intensely. Now, at 13 years of age, he
still needs me very, very much, but in different ways and not so constantly.
Nighttime parenting was for me a sacred honor. That's not to say
that it should be for you, too, but what I am saying is that when I
shifted my perspective about what I was "entitled" to and what Liam
needed, it was obvious that I could rise to the occasion and put my
needs on the back burner a little. I knew that eventually I would be
able to nurture more of the things that make me me, but I would
remember that I had had 37 years prior to that of being spontaneous
and entirely me-focused!
I think I remember reading in one of William Sears's books that if
he, a crusty old guy, could rouse himself out of bed in the middle of
the night to take care of a perfect stranger, surely a mom could do
that for her young child! This had a huge impact on my perspective
of nighttime parenting ~ and daytime parenting, too!
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>-=- Why the need for bedtime?-=-My son was born was I was 37 years old, too! I figured by that time
>
> I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I
> know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37
> years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing
> myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them
> that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to
> read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other
> unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all
> hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
I had already had 37 years of "me" time, and, since I invited Liam
into my life, I could devote my time to him (as much as he needed)
until he didn't need me so intensely. Now, at 13 years of age, he
still needs me very, very much, but in different ways and not so constantly.
Nighttime parenting was for me a sacred honor. That's not to say
that it should be for you, too, but what I am saying is that when I
shifted my perspective about what I was "entitled" to and what Liam
needed, it was obvious that I could rise to the occasion and put my
needs on the back burner a little. I knew that eventually I would be
able to nurture more of the things that make me me, but I would
remember that I had had 37 years prior to that of being spontaneous
and entirely me-focused!
I think I remember reading in one of William Sears's books that if
he, a crusty old guy, could rouse himself out of bed in the middle of
the night to take care of a perfect stranger, surely a mom could do
that for her young child! This had a huge impact on my perspective
of nighttime parenting ~ and daytime parenting, too!
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Between their bedtime and
mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and
stuff away,
clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury
to read a
book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
-=-=-=-=-
yep---it's all about you? <bwg>
Can't you do those things while they play on the floor at your feet?
Can they not "help" with the dishes and laundry? Can't you watch tv
together?
Oh---and looking at book reading and talking on the phone with a friend
as "luxuries" might be getting in the way of clear thinking.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual
you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent
I don't
think it could be!
=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that time alone without the girls to do laundry and
talk on the phone is teh best way to spend your time?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine.
-=-=-=-
BINGO!
-=-=-=-=-=-
By that
time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict
with each
other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door
to do
anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day
being done
by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which
is the
main reason I'm asking for help!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I understand being tired and *done* with the day. But changing how
you're looking at that would make it easier to actually MAKE the
changes.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to
get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know
who I am
other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had
the girls
and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself.
-=-=-=-=-=-
That's was what I was looking for. <G>
You had 37 years to BE Who You Are. Now you're grousing about not
having enough time for yourself?
Maybe try to see it as ALREADY having been "your own person"---now it's
time to be there for your tiny girls.
You're not losing yourself---you're redefining yourself. You're now the
mom of three year old twins. Enjoy it!
As a mom of a now 20 year old son, I can't tell you how fast it goes.
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously---change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Treat each and every evening as if it were your last with the girls.
Would you be in such a hurry to get them to sleep if you know it might
be the last time?
Change your expectations. You'll find that you worry less and less
about getting them to sleep and focus more on the time you get to spend
together.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't work outside the home, and
it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at
least get a
chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
-=-=-=-
Replace resentment with appreciation of the time you get to have with
them---even late in the day.
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are
up/down at all hours?? Is
there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
-=-=-=-=
You have twin girls. Get over it, and get used to it.
Something awful could happen tomorrow, and you could no longer have two
little girls to snuggle with at night. Would you look forward to all
those quiet hours?
Really----stop, think. What is it that you truly want? Twin girls
doesn't equal quiet time. I guess you could be grateful you don't have
triplets. <G> Enjoy what you DO have and make the most of each a and
every minute you DO get with them 'cause there's no guarantee it'll
last.
Oh---and no one's up and down at all hours. We all go to sleep when we
are tired. No struggle. Peace.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I
described it
above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in
that they
start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating,
because I
can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
-=-=-=-=-=-
You're making a HONKING big deal out of having time to yourself after
they go to bed. THEY know something's up---and they want to be there
doing it with you! They don't want to miss a minute! Can you blame
them? You're making such a big deal out of it, it must be something
GRAND! that they're missing by going to bed.
-=-=-=-=-
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o)))
-=-=-=-=-=
Yeah---be WITH them. Have them be a part of the solution. Enjoy the
evenings as a family---not two separate entities: the adults and the
kids. Spend teh time playing quiet games, reading, watching movies, and
snuggling together on the sofa.
The laundry, phones, and dishes can wait. Seriously.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up
again...and
again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get
frustrated because
I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
-=-=-=-=-
Take deep breaths and think of how much time you would have if they
weren't there. How does that fantasy actually look?
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean
it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when
there
are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, but you're looking at it as "as soon as I can get them to sleep,
everything will be fine"---THat's not the attitude to take.
Try "what can I do to make the house peaceful and a nice place to fall
asleep?" and go from there.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Between their bedtime and
mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and
stuff away,
clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury
to read a
book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
-=-=-=-=-
yep---it's all about you? <bwg>
Can't you do those things while they play on the floor at your feet?
Can they not "help" with the dishes and laundry? Can't you watch tv
together?
Oh---and looking at book reading and talking on the phone with a friend
as "luxuries" might be getting in the way of clear thinking.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual
you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent
I don't
think it could be!
=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that time alone without the girls to do laundry and
talk on the phone is teh best way to spend your time?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine.
-=-=-=-
BINGO!
-=-=-=-=-=-
By that
time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict
with each
other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door
to do
anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day
being done
by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which
is the
main reason I'm asking for help!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I understand being tired and *done* with the day. But changing how
you're looking at that would make it easier to actually MAKE the
changes.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to
get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know
who I am
other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had
the girls
and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself.
-=-=-=-=-=-
That's was what I was looking for. <G>
You had 37 years to BE Who You Are. Now you're grousing about not
having enough time for yourself?
Maybe try to see it as ALREADY having been "your own person"---now it's
time to be there for your tiny girls.
You're not losing yourself---you're redefining yourself. You're now the
mom of three year old twins. Enjoy it!
As a mom of a now 20 year old son, I can't tell you how fast it goes.
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously---change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Treat each and every evening as if it were your last with the girls.
Would you be in such a hurry to get them to sleep if you know it might
be the last time?
Change your expectations. You'll find that you worry less and less
about getting them to sleep and focus more on the time you get to spend
together.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't work outside the home, and
it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at
least get a
chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
-=-=-=-
Replace resentment with appreciation of the time you get to have with
them---even late in the day.
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are
up/down at all hours?? Is
there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
-=-=-=-=
You have twin girls. Get over it, and get used to it.
Something awful could happen tomorrow, and you could no longer have two
little girls to snuggle with at night. Would you look forward to all
those quiet hours?
Really----stop, think. What is it that you truly want? Twin girls
doesn't equal quiet time. I guess you could be grateful you don't have
triplets. <G> Enjoy what you DO have and make the most of each a and
every minute you DO get with them 'cause there's no guarantee it'll
last.
Oh---and no one's up and down at all hours. We all go to sleep when we
are tired. No struggle. Peace.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I
described it
above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in
that they
start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating,
because I
can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
-=-=-=-=-=-
You're making a HONKING big deal out of having time to yourself after
they go to bed. THEY know something's up---and they want to be there
doing it with you! They don't want to miss a minute! Can you blame
them? You're making such a big deal out of it, it must be something
GRAND! that they're missing by going to bed.
-=-=-=-=-
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o)))
-=-=-=-=-=
Yeah---be WITH them. Have them be a part of the solution. Enjoy the
evenings as a family---not two separate entities: the adults and the
kids. Spend teh time playing quiet games, reading, watching movies, and
snuggling together on the sofa.
The laundry, phones, and dishes can wait. Seriously.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up
again...and
again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get
frustrated because
I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
-=-=-=-=-
Take deep breaths and think of how much time you would have if they
weren't there. How does that fantasy actually look?
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean
it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when
there
are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, but you're looking at it as "as soon as I can get them to sleep,
everything will be fine"---THat's not the attitude to take.
Try "what can I do to make the house peaceful and a nice place to fall
asleep?" and go from there.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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marji
At 10:29 1/26/2008, Jodi wrote:
about everything. You can unconsciously choose resentment and
thereby give away your personal power, *or* you can consciously
choose to delight in spending each and every moment you can with your
daughters in a joyful way.
When you consciously choose your feelings, you retain your
power. And, you take the burden off your daughters; right now,
you're giving them all your power. And, that's an unfair burden to
place on them. Can you see that?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that ISometimes it's good to remember that you get to choose how you feel
>struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a
>chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
about everything. You can unconsciously choose resentment and
thereby give away your personal power, *or* you can consciously
choose to delight in spending each and every moment you can with your
daughters in a joyful way.
When you consciously choose your feelings, you retain your
power. And, you take the burden off your daughters; right now,
you're giving them all your power. And, that's an unfair burden to
place on them. Can you see that?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kfsirotkin
I personally would like to see a little more sensitivity here.
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that. I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted). I
am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance. Just because
we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
Is it *all* about me? No, not all. It is about me, *too*. It is
about the kids, and about my husband, and about me. We are a family-
-so it is about all of our needs. And that works for us. I see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
Karen
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that. I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted). I
am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance. Just because
we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
Is it *all* about me? No, not all. It is about me, *too*. It is
about the kids, and about my husband, and about me. We are a family-
-so it is about all of our needs. And that works for us. I see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
Karen
Jodi Bezzola
Yes, I can feel that I'm giving away all my power, which is likely why I feel so done most of the time. I realize by discussing this that I still have some lingering resentment about my pregnancy in the first place, didn't realize any of that was still there. My partner and I had only been together for 6 months when our unplanned pregnancy happened, and then it turned out to be 2 at once...I think I'm still reeling a little from that. I know, totally unfair to them, and I am definitely a work in progress, thank god.
Thanks for your feedback :o).
Jodi
marji <marji@...> wrote:
At 10:29 1/26/2008, Jodi wrote:
about everything. You can unconsciously choose resentment and
thereby give away your personal power, *or* you can consciously
choose to delight in spending each and every moment you can with your
daughters in a joyful way.
When you consciously choose your feelings, you retain your
power. And, you take the burden off your daughters; right now,
you're giving them all your power. And, that's an unfair burden to
place on them. Can you see that?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for your feedback :o).
Jodi
marji <marji@...> wrote:
At 10:29 1/26/2008, Jodi wrote:
>I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that ISometimes it's good to remember that you get to choose how you feel
>struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a
>chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
about everything. You can unconsciously choose resentment and
thereby give away your personal power, *or* you can consciously
choose to delight in spending each and every moment you can with your
daughters in a joyful way.
When you consciously choose your feelings, you retain your
power. And, you take the burden off your daughters; right now,
you're giving them all your power. And, that's an unfair burden to
place on them. Can you see that?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2008 10:30:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jodibezzola@... writes:
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they'I don't know, can
you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're
actually going to sleep, and then...they'<WBR>re up again...and again...a
___
I was 37 when I had my daughter and 40 when I had my son and I so remember
those days when my patience was thin and I longed for some time to myself.
Those days were long before I discovered unschooling and I missed so much
with all my early bedtimes for the kids as well as all my other arbitrary rules
so I could have more time or I felt they needed structure and routine.
In what I consider now one of my worst moments as a parent was when Brenna
was three and Logan was just born. My mom and in-laws brought Brenna to the
hospital to see her little brother and after a short visit, I insisted that
she get home by bedtime so she could get her rest. I really did that!! And
thought I was being a good mom for doing it.
Perspective, Perspective. Brenna is now 18 and making plans for college
and Logan is playing WOW at all hours. I go to Yoga any time I want and best
of all I can go to Yoga with Brenna because we like each other enough to hang
out together. I now try and schedule my days so I'll be available when the
kids are home because those precious moments are truly only moments now.
We lost so many moments together but I had a second chance when I grasped
that whole concept of perspective changes and discovered unschooling. I can
never get those years back but at least we didn't lose them all.
I do understand your frustration and I'm not trying to minimize it but it
really does go by so fast. I love all our moments but I'd love just one day
with the kids climbing into my bed for the 10th time for one more kiss.
Gail
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jodibezzola@... writes:
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they'I don't know, can
you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're
actually going to sleep, and then...they'<WBR>re up again...and again...a
___
I was 37 when I had my daughter and 40 when I had my son and I so remember
those days when my patience was thin and I longed for some time to myself.
Those days were long before I discovered unschooling and I missed so much
with all my early bedtimes for the kids as well as all my other arbitrary rules
so I could have more time or I felt they needed structure and routine.
In what I consider now one of my worst moments as a parent was when Brenna
was three and Logan was just born. My mom and in-laws brought Brenna to the
hospital to see her little brother and after a short visit, I insisted that
she get home by bedtime so she could get her rest. I really did that!! And
thought I was being a good mom for doing it.
Perspective, Perspective. Brenna is now 18 and making plans for college
and Logan is playing WOW at all hours. I go to Yoga any time I want and best
of all I can go to Yoga with Brenna because we like each other enough to hang
out together. I now try and schedule my days so I'll be available when the
kids are home because those precious moments are truly only moments now.
We lost so many moments together but I had a second chance when I grasped
that whole concept of perspective changes and discovered unschooling. I can
never get those years back but at least we didn't lose them all.
I do understand your frustration and I'm not trying to minimize it but it
really does go by so fast. I love all our moments but I'd love just one day
with the kids climbing into my bed for the 10th time for one more kiss.
Gail
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:As a mom of a now 20 year old son, I can't tell you how fast it goes.
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously--- change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Kelly,
You are so right. It doesn't last forever. Our oldest son is now 25 married with a family of his own. We don't see them or talk to them, Things happen, people change. Our 18 year old son lives on his own now, and our 11 year old daughter doesn't need me as much, she cooks her own food, does her own laundry.
Our youngest is 6 and he still needs me to be upstairs with him, me in my room and him in his room, in order for him to go to sleep. I used to think of all the things I should be doing, instead of being in my room for an hour or so. Now I use that time to get ready for bed, do my teeth, put on PJ's, ride the exercise bike, or just lay in bed and watch tv, and yes he still comes in 2 or 3 times to make sure I am still there, but that is okay. I am just glad that he is still with me and needs me.
Thanks again Kelly for sharing such wise information.
Oneida
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously--- change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Kelly,
You are so right. It doesn't last forever. Our oldest son is now 25 married with a family of his own. We don't see them or talk to them, Things happen, people change. Our 18 year old son lives on his own now, and our 11 year old daughter doesn't need me as much, she cooks her own food, does her own laundry.
Our youngest is 6 and he still needs me to be upstairs with him, me in my room and him in his room, in order for him to go to sleep. I used to think of all the things I should be doing, instead of being in my room for an hour or so. Now I use that time to get ready for bed, do my teeth, put on PJ's, ride the exercise bike, or just lay in bed and watch tv, and yes he still comes in 2 or 3 times to make sure I am still there, but that is okay. I am just glad that he is still with me and needs me.
Thanks again Kelly for sharing such wise information.
Oneida
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Melissa Gray
Kelly had some good suggestions. They are hard to hear, I know, I had
to go through all of them...with SEVEN kids. Be at peace, don't take
it as an attack, and just be open to the universe.
I've been a stay-at-home mom for just about eleven years. I
understand the fear of losing yourself, but you aren't! You are just
redefining yourself as a mom. And redefining what your needs truly
are. I have children with disabilities. I have fallen into the
thinking of how hard it is, it's a full time job just for one of
them. But I try to remind myself of the moms who have kids who are
much more disabled. Or God forbid, the moms whose children are gone.
That's not the kind of peace I want!
I also wanted to know what dh is doing between getting home for work
and the girls 'bedtimes'. Because that is MY time, when my hubby gets
home, he has time to relax, go potty, and then we all eat dinner
together. After dinner, I do my exercises and reading, check my
email, etc etc, at that point, and that way when the kids are tired,
I can be fully present for them. Twice a week its scout night with
one of the boys, and my time is spent with them, supporting them in
that. One other night a week I take one of the other kids out, even
just to buy bread. It seems like a relief having just one lol! It
is intense, my oldest is 12, and he still likes the mom time about
then. Dh and I split the kids, so that we're only dividing our time
between three boys or four girls. If I need to go to bed early for an
early appointment, then dh puts the kids to bed himself. If I'm
swiped from a full day (and they are intense, I know)
Anyway, we have two extra today, so I'd better go. "They're coming to
take me away haha!"
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
to go through all of them...with SEVEN kids. Be at peace, don't take
it as an attack, and just be open to the universe.
I've been a stay-at-home mom for just about eleven years. I
understand the fear of losing yourself, but you aren't! You are just
redefining yourself as a mom. And redefining what your needs truly
are. I have children with disabilities. I have fallen into the
thinking of how hard it is, it's a full time job just for one of
them. But I try to remind myself of the moms who have kids who are
much more disabled. Or God forbid, the moms whose children are gone.
That's not the kind of peace I want!
I also wanted to know what dh is doing between getting home for work
and the girls 'bedtimes'. Because that is MY time, when my hubby gets
home, he has time to relax, go potty, and then we all eat dinner
together. After dinner, I do my exercises and reading, check my
email, etc etc, at that point, and that way when the kids are tired,
I can be fully present for them. Twice a week its scout night with
one of the boys, and my time is spent with them, supporting them in
that. One other night a week I take one of the other kids out, even
just to buy bread. It seems like a relief having just one lol! It
is intense, my oldest is 12, and he still likes the mom time about
then. Dh and I split the kids, so that we're only dividing our time
between three boys or four girls. If I need to go to bed early for an
early appointment, then dh puts the kids to bed himself. If I'm
swiped from a full day (and they are intense, I know)
Anyway, we have two extra today, so I'd better go. "They're coming to
take me away haha!"
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jan 26, 2008, at 10:29 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
>
> Between their bedtime and
> mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and
> stuff away,
> clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury
> to read a
> book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
>
> -
>
> RECENT ACTIVITY
> 28
> New Members
> Visit Your Group
> Yahoo! Kickstart
> Sign up today!
> Be a career mentor
> for undergrads.
> Yahoo! Groups
> Dog Zone
> Connect w/others
> who love dogs.
> Do-It-Yourselfers
> on Yahoo! Groups
> How-to ideas,
> projects and more.
> .
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
"Ah so, little grasshopper". I can understand how that feels. Our
oldest was a surprise, I was still in college....and not quite what I
had planned. ;-) We were married, but you can guess by our numbers
that fertility is high in our family.
I'm so glad that you are here. We're all works in progress...even if
we don't talk about it all the time!!!
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
oldest was a surprise, I was still in college....and not quite what I
had planned. ;-) We were married, but you can guess by our numbers
that fertility is high in our family.
I'm so glad that you are here. We're all works in progress...even if
we don't talk about it all the time!!!
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jan 26, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Jodi Bezzola wrote:
> Yes, I can feel that I'm giving away all my power, which is likely
> why I feel so done most of the time. I realize by discussing this
> that I still have some lingering resentment about my pregnancy in
> the first place, didn't realize any of that was still there. My
> partner and I had only been together for 6 months when our
> unplanned pregnancy happened, and then it turned out to be 2 at
> once...I think I'm still reeling a little from that. I know,
> totally unfair to them, and I am definitely a work in progress,
> thank god.
> Thanks for your feedback :o).
> Jodi
>
> marji <marji@...> wrote:
> At 10:29 1/26/2008, Jodi wrote:
> >I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that I
> >struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a
> >chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
>
> Sometimes it's good to remember that you get to choose how you feel
> about everything. You can unconsciously choose resentment and
> thereby give away your personal power, *or* you can consciously
> choose to delight in spending each and every moment you can with your
> daughters in a joyful way.
>
> When you consciously choose your feelings, you retain your
> power. And, you take the burden off your daughters; right now,
> you're giving them all your power. And, that's an unfair burden to
> place on them. Can you see that?
>
> ~Marji
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
> Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
just one comment- WHERE are they when rubbing eyes and looking tired-
maybe helping them fall sleep somewhere OTHER than bed because once
in bed they are active. Try something other than falling asleep in
bed or one at a time.
my 3 yr old is active all day and if when she is ready to fall
asleep I take even an extra minute to get her stuff ready she is
back up and ready to go for two more hours- so I try really hard to
have everything ready for when she is ready to fall asleep- maybe
the same sort of thing is happening with your twins.
I love the fall asleep to a movie- this has helped my 3 yr old- she
drinks a bottle and falls asleep and then I carry her to bed.
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch
something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by
now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of
being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and
they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep
in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to
bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and
that's when the fun starts.
crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really
tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my
husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance
to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean
the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to
read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
options?
with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either
because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they
aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the
ritual.
who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very
challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the
house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point.
I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main
reason I'm asking for help!
pitch dark every day ready to move!
years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing
myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them
that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to
read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other
unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all
hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to
just be me?
they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some
version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they
are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really
challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point
I have absolutely no patience left at all.
maybe helping them fall sleep somewhere OTHER than bed because once
in bed they are active. Try something other than falling asleep in
bed or one at a time.
my 3 yr old is active all day and if when she is ready to fall
asleep I take even an extra minute to get her stuff ready she is
back up and ready to go for two more hours- so I try really hard to
have everything ready for when she is ready to fall asleep- maybe
the same sort of thing is happening with your twins.
I love the fall asleep to a movie- this has helped my 3 yr old- she
drinks a bottle and falls asleep and then I carry her to bed.
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>because maybe it will help clarify things for me even more.
> Hi Kelly, I'm going to actually answer some of your questions
>you say
> ~~How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time
> "bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?half. They love their bath so they usually hang out there for quite
>
> It takes over an hour for sure, probably closer to an hour and a
awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch
something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by
now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of
being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and
they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep
in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to
bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and
that's when the fun starts.
>between the
> ~~What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do
> girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time thegirls
> are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?early in the mornings (it's the only time I'm alone and I'm a pretty
>
> I go to bed around 10, my husband a little later. I go to yoga
crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really
tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my
husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance
to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean
the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to
read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
>the ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
> ~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy
options?
>spent I don't think it could be! If you mean the bedtime ritual
> If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better
with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either
because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they
aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the
ritual.
> I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the eveningroutine. By that time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins
who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very
challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the
house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point.
I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main
reason I'm asking for help!
>dark,
> ~~Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up
> dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?a pull-down blackout blind on their window. They wake up in the
>
> The sun doesn't come up on their side of the house, plus we have
pitch dark every day ready to move!
>to get
> ~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine
> ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together andread
> or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watchinga
> movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need forbedtime?
>know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37
> I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I
years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing
myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them
that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to
read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other
unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all
hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to
just be me?
> And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think Idescribed it above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after
they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some
version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they
are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
>be a
> ~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't
> nightly struggle?that they're so tired they're actually going to sleep, and
>
> I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening
then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really
challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point
I have absolutely no patience left at all.
>mean it
> ~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't
> can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How couldyou
> better spend that hour or two?when there are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
>
> I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time
>tuck in,
> Thanks for listening,
> Jodi
>
>
> kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
>
> I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we
> and westuff
> usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of
> andbe
> gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to
> later -outside
> they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
> tired by 8
> p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around
> for awork
> nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't
> for themdestructive
> to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite
> and verywondering
> much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep
> what theyor
> were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe
> not withoutwouldn't
> someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it
> be such athey
> big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep
> need! Andyour
> at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
> Sometimes
> during the day they say they are tired, but
> will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for
> response -7:00am.
> every little bit helps!
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at
> They don't nap.say
>
> How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you
> "bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?between the
>
> What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do
> girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time thegirls
> are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?dark,
>
> How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
> ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
> options?
>
> Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up
> dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?to get
>
> Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine
> ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together andread
> or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watchinga
> movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need forbedtime?
>a
> How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be
> nightly struggle?mean it
>
> Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't
> can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How couldyou
> better spend that hour or two?
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
> __________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
marji
Jodi,
I see what a surprise all this was for you! My husband and I spent
two (fun) years inviting Liam into our lives before he actually
accepted our invitation. We had had fourteen years together before
Liam showed up. And, Liam is just one guy, not two!
Nevertheless, things are what they are. And, the same applies: you
can choose to resent the way things are or you can choose to embrace
the way things are. I think you are trying to do that anyway, but
perhaps you need to do something to help you with the slight
perspective shift you need so you can fully embrace the way your life
*is* without resentment.
It's important to realize is that we cannot control anyone else, only
ourselves. You cannot control your daughters; you can only control yourself.
Have you read or are you familiar with "The Work," by Byron
Katie? Maybe this will be helpful to you:
http://www.thework.com/thework.asp
~marji, another work in progress :-)
At 11:58 1/26/2008, you wrote:
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I see what a surprise all this was for you! My husband and I spent
two (fun) years inviting Liam into our lives before he actually
accepted our invitation. We had had fourteen years together before
Liam showed up. And, Liam is just one guy, not two!
Nevertheless, things are what they are. And, the same applies: you
can choose to resent the way things are or you can choose to embrace
the way things are. I think you are trying to do that anyway, but
perhaps you need to do something to help you with the slight
perspective shift you need so you can fully embrace the way your life
*is* without resentment.
It's important to realize is that we cannot control anyone else, only
ourselves. You cannot control your daughters; you can only control yourself.
Have you read or are you familiar with "The Work," by Byron
Katie? Maybe this will be helpful to you:
http://www.thework.com/thework.asp
~marji, another work in progress :-)
At 11:58 1/26/2008, you wrote:
>Yes, I can feel that I'm giving away all my power, which is likely~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>why I feel so done most of the time. I realize by discussing this
>that I still have some lingering resentment about my pregnancy in
>the first place, didn't realize any of that was still there. My
>partner and I had only been together for 6 months when our unplanned
>pregnancy happened, and then it turned out to be 2 at once...I think
>I'm still reeling a little from that. I know, totally unfair to
>them, and I am definitely a work in progress, thank god.
> Thanks for your feedback :o).
> Jodi
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: kfsirotkin <kfsirotkin@...>
I personally would like to see a little more sensitivity here.
-=-=-
No one is being insensitive.
If you're taking it harshly, maybe the responses are hitting a little
close to home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that.
-=-=-=-=-
There's real honesty in the answers too. Sometimes it's hard to look at
other options when we're too wrapped up in what's happening to us
personally.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted).
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had my first at 27 and my second at 36. My age did not change the
fact that I was, indeed, a mom from that birth point on. It wasn't that
I was *only* a mom. It was that I was *now* a mom. And that's a big
role to take on. And there aren't many options for "not motherhood."
She could just leave, put the kids up for adoption, sell them on the
sex slave market---but I doubt any of those were among her first
choices. <g> Once a mother, you're kind of always a mother. It's not
like selling the horse when you're overwhelmed with the horse and its
many responsibilities. It's a permanent gig. Not the *only* gig, but
one that's not going away.
But she said that she was missing Who She Was before kids---that she
liked having what she had at 37 and that the adjustment was hard. She
brought up the person she was before and the person she's struggling
with now.
It really helps to change the way we look at What I Have Now and work
within that paradigm instead of Wanting What WAS and trying to achieve
that. Motherhood ain't going away.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance.
-=-=-=--
No, it's about meeting small children's needs.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Just because we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what
are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
-=-=-=-=-=-
No one said that.
It IS important though to understand what ALL we are and work within
that. Trying to get rid of children so we can have "me" time isn't the
same as finding what works for everyone.
If what I want isn't working, it's good for me to look again at what
might work best for everyone and see how best to meet all those needs.
Obviously the girls' needs aren't being met---and the struggle to meet
*mom's* needs isn't being met *either* because no one is ending up
content.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
-=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that the moms (and a few dads) here have no value
because we work to meet everyone's needs?
So you have to insist on your way in order to feel valued? Or to appear
worthy/valuable to others???
-=-=-=-=-=-
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
-=-=-=-=-
You'll find a lot of us here are introverts, needing just as much
re-charging time as you do. I have had to get creative with my time
through the years.
And it does get easier as the children age. And it can be exhausting to
have little ones who demand so much. (Welcome to parenthood!)
But saying that a child must sleep in order for me to have alone time
really isn't OK. I could choose to stay up or get up early, if that's
what I need. But to insist that a child must go to sleep (whether
sleepy or not) because *I* need alone time is arbitrary. It's not good
for the child nor for our relationship.
And each of us gets to CHOOSE whether we will have patience, have joy,
and be a good mom each and every moment of every day.
-=-=-=-=-=
I see Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is
no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And the suggestions have been to change the way she looks at the
situation. If we can accept that the children are a part of our lives
wholly and fully, we can learn to include them and make them a part of
the solution.
What Jodi's doing isn't working. She's asked for suggestions. Here, in
an unschooling forum, the suggestions will be to work WITH the children
and their needs instead of AGAINST them. Be their partners, not their
adversaries.
In time (and not all that long, if the mindset is there), evenings will
be peaceful and relaxing. AND mom will get plenty of alone time because
everyone's needs are met. Spending an hour and a half every night to
get two children asleep is NO fun. Spending an hour and a half having
*fun* will get the children to sleep. <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: kfsirotkin <kfsirotkin@...>
I personally would like to see a little more sensitivity here.
-=-=-
No one is being insensitive.
If you're taking it harshly, maybe the responses are hitting a little
close to home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that.
-=-=-=-=-
There's real honesty in the answers too. Sometimes it's hard to look at
other options when we're too wrapped up in what's happening to us
personally.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted).
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had my first at 27 and my second at 36. My age did not change the
fact that I was, indeed, a mom from that birth point on. It wasn't that
I was *only* a mom. It was that I was *now* a mom. And that's a big
role to take on. And there aren't many options for "not motherhood."
She could just leave, put the kids up for adoption, sell them on the
sex slave market---but I doubt any of those were among her first
choices. <g> Once a mother, you're kind of always a mother. It's not
like selling the horse when you're overwhelmed with the horse and its
many responsibilities. It's a permanent gig. Not the *only* gig, but
one that's not going away.
But she said that she was missing Who She Was before kids---that she
liked having what she had at 37 and that the adjustment was hard. She
brought up the person she was before and the person she's struggling
with now.
It really helps to change the way we look at What I Have Now and work
within that paradigm instead of Wanting What WAS and trying to achieve
that. Motherhood ain't going away.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance.
-=-=-=--
No, it's about meeting small children's needs.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Just because we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what
are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
-=-=-=-=-=-
No one said that.
It IS important though to understand what ALL we are and work within
that. Trying to get rid of children so we can have "me" time isn't the
same as finding what works for everyone.
If what I want isn't working, it's good for me to look again at what
might work best for everyone and see how best to meet all those needs.
Obviously the girls' needs aren't being met---and the struggle to meet
*mom's* needs isn't being met *either* because no one is ending up
content.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
-=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that the moms (and a few dads) here have no value
because we work to meet everyone's needs?
So you have to insist on your way in order to feel valued? Or to appear
worthy/valuable to others???
-=-=-=-=-=-
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
-=-=-=-=-
You'll find a lot of us here are introverts, needing just as much
re-charging time as you do. I have had to get creative with my time
through the years.
And it does get easier as the children age. And it can be exhausting to
have little ones who demand so much. (Welcome to parenthood!)
But saying that a child must sleep in order for me to have alone time
really isn't OK. I could choose to stay up or get up early, if that's
what I need. But to insist that a child must go to sleep (whether
sleepy or not) because *I* need alone time is arbitrary. It's not good
for the child nor for our relationship.
And each of us gets to CHOOSE whether we will have patience, have joy,
and be a good mom each and every moment of every day.
-=-=-=-=-=
I see Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is
no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And the suggestions have been to change the way she looks at the
situation. If we can accept that the children are a part of our lives
wholly and fully, we can learn to include them and make them a part of
the solution.
What Jodi's doing isn't working. She's asked for suggestions. Here, in
an unschooling forum, the suggestions will be to work WITH the children
and their needs instead of AGAINST them. Be their partners, not their
adversaries.
In time (and not all that long, if the mindset is there), evenings will
be peaceful and relaxing. AND mom will get plenty of alone time because
everyone's needs are met. Spending an hour and a half every night to
get two children asleep is NO fun. Spending an hour and a half having
*fun* will get the children to sleep. <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2008 1:14:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kfsirotkin@... writes:
see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
___
I hope I didn't come across as critical when I wrote about perspective
change. I've been feeling a bit nostalgic lately as I realize that I could have
met my needs and my children's in much different ways when they were young.
I'm also very aware of how quickly a child can be lost. I think many of us on
this list are so cognizant of that possibility that we use it as a guidepost
when we do find ourselves impatient with our kids.
I'm an introvert also and am at my best when I have lots of quiet time for
reflection and just to be alone.
I was a single mom for several years and that time alone was not easy to
come by, however, I do remember some things that worked and might be something
to try.....So on a practical and not so nostalgic note, I have a couple of
ideas....
I got a baby jogger (I've seen them for twins also). I took the kids out
for a run or walk most every day and usually they would fall asleep after the
first mile. I always felt better for getting the exercise, the kids were with
me and I usually had at least 30 minutes of pure quiet. When Brenna was 3
1/2, Logan was born so there was a time span until she could ride her bike
when this wasn't practical but I do remember Logan being very happy for several
years in the jogger and Brenna riding her bike beside me.
The kids slept with me quite a bit during the "single mom" years. I was
still big into bedtimes and rules but those times when they were in the bed with
me are some of my best and most peaceful memories. We would all cuddle in
bed, read books and I'd sing and tell them stories. When they fell asleep,
I'd usually get up and do things I wanted or needed to do. I didn't get as much
sleep as I do now but I did have the quiet time I needed. (On a side note,
one of those nights I got up and was on the computer, I got an IM from a most
wonderful man who later became my husband)
I don't know if these are ideas that would be helpful for you. There are so
many creative ways (that may be outside mainstream thinking) that might be
worth a try. I often see ideas on these lists that are just amazing and never
crossed my mind because of my preconceived ideas about what parenting should
look like.
Gail
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kfsirotkin@... writes:
see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
___
I hope I didn't come across as critical when I wrote about perspective
change. I've been feeling a bit nostalgic lately as I realize that I could have
met my needs and my children's in much different ways when they were young.
I'm also very aware of how quickly a child can be lost. I think many of us on
this list are so cognizant of that possibility that we use it as a guidepost
when we do find ourselves impatient with our kids.
I'm an introvert also and am at my best when I have lots of quiet time for
reflection and just to be alone.
I was a single mom for several years and that time alone was not easy to
come by, however, I do remember some things that worked and might be something
to try.....So on a practical and not so nostalgic note, I have a couple of
ideas....
I got a baby jogger (I've seen them for twins also). I took the kids out
for a run or walk most every day and usually they would fall asleep after the
first mile. I always felt better for getting the exercise, the kids were with
me and I usually had at least 30 minutes of pure quiet. When Brenna was 3
1/2, Logan was born so there was a time span until she could ride her bike
when this wasn't practical but I do remember Logan being very happy for several
years in the jogger and Brenna riding her bike beside me.
The kids slept with me quite a bit during the "single mom" years. I was
still big into bedtimes and rules but those times when they were in the bed with
me are some of my best and most peaceful memories. We would all cuddle in
bed, read books and I'd sing and tell them stories. When they fell asleep,
I'd usually get up and do things I wanted or needed to do. I didn't get as much
sleep as I do now but I did have the quiet time I needed. (On a side note,
one of those nights I got up and was on the computer, I got an IM from a most
wonderful man who later became my husband)
I don't know if these are ideas that would be helpful for you. There are so
many creative ways (that may be outside mainstream thinking) that might be
worth a try. I often see ideas on these lists that are just amazing and never
crossed my mind because of my preconceived ideas about what parenting should
look like.
Gail
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
Thank you SO much Karen for this post. I will be honest, I felt quite invalidated in some of the response. I too had a mother who did that, and she totally collapsed when she was 41 which is the age I am now, and that is scary. I'm not just grousing, I'm looking for a way to balance ALL of us in the family, getting ALL our needs met - isn't that what I've heard unschoolers say that it is possible for everyone to get what they want? I'm so happy to hear you say that you need alone time - I'm the same way. When I'm around others constantly I get cloudy even about whether or not I'm hungry, and my patience, my joy, my everything needs to be recharged. Thank you for confirming that is okay. It's so easy to say 'don't be resentful be thankful', *and* it takes me a little time and space at least to be able to even be willing to see it that way. This is simply the way I'm wired! Do I wish I was more like my husband a true extrovert who only needs space and time once every
other month? Yes!! But I'm not, and I'm just honestly trying to find my way, find how to bring ALL of me to the table since I'm so busy honoring the girls bringing ALL of themselves too. I feel strongly about modelling this for them. Thanks again Karen.
Jodi
kfsirotkin <kfsirotkin@...> wrote:
I personally would like to see a little more sensitivity here.
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that. I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted). I
am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance. Just because
we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
Is it *all* about me? No, not all. It is about me, *too*. It is
about the kids, and about my husband, and about me. We are a family-
-so it is about all of our needs. And that works for us. I see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
Karen
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
other month? Yes!! But I'm not, and I'm just honestly trying to find my way, find how to bring ALL of me to the table since I'm so busy honoring the girls bringing ALL of themselves too. I feel strongly about modelling this for them. Thanks again Karen.
Jodi
kfsirotkin <kfsirotkin@...> wrote:
I personally would like to see a little more sensitivity here.
Jodi has brought up some real honesty in her desires and there is
nothing wrong with that. I had my first child at 28. That doesn't
mean that I need to now look at my life from that point forward as a
mom only (just because I had 28 years to be anything I wanted). I
am many things. And EACH of those aspects of myself deserve to
shine--not just the mom part. This is about balance. Just because
we have kids doesn't mean we give up who we are, or what are own
needs are. I think that is dangerous.
I had a mother who did that--and who still does that. And what it
modeled for me (as her child) is that when you grow up, you have no
value. My mother never valued herself enough to say, I need
______. It took me until adulthood to realize that we all (no
matter our age, race or parental status) have the right to say I
need ______, and then give ourselves that need. We all--children
AND parents have the right to value ourselves.
I have 4 (soon to be 5) children, all of whom I adore. But I also
adore who I am. One of the many things I am is an introvert. That
means I NEED a certain amount of alone time to recharge my personal
energy. Otherwise, I find I don't have patience, I don't have joy,
and I certainly am NOT a good mom. Now with 4 children, I take that
alone time where I can get it. As the boys have gotten older, I
find that I can take that time during the day as my youngest naps
and the older boys are playing outside, or with their DS/Game cube,
or playing a game, or what have you. But when they were younger,
the only time I had to myself was when they went to bed. No, I
couldn't have them watch TV with me, or fold laundry with me, or do
anything else with me. I needed to be alone. And that is OKAY.
Is it *all* about me? No, not all. It is about me, *too*. It is
about the kids, and about my husband, and about me. We are a family-
-so it is about all of our needs. And that works for us. I see
Jodi saying that something that used to work for her family is no
longer working for her family, and hey, does anyone have any ideas
about things she can to do honor her children's needs AND her
needs.
There are a lot of ways to do that. But I don't think that being
critical of her having and admitting her own needs is own of them.
Karen
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
What is it they say - the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off? You are a bit of a hardass in your delivery aren't you? <G>. You've likely already read the email I sent regarding the way I felt when I read this. I get that this isn't about you and it isn't about my girls, it's about my lingering resentment at having this 'happen to me' instead of choosing it and feeling hard done by. I get that it's about changing my perspective, and I get that it's challenging to do that. Yes, it's a decision, but it's likely one to be remade and remade and remade again until it's a habitual way of thinking. I also get that it's about the logistics of how do we make this work so *everyone* wins.
Thanks Kelly,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Between their bedtime and
mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and
stuff away,
clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury
to read a
book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
-=-=-=-=-
yep---it's all about you? <bwg>
Can't you do those things while they play on the floor at your feet?
Can they not "help" with the dishes and laundry? Can't you watch tv
together?
Oh---and looking at book reading and talking on the phone with a friend
as "luxuries" might be getting in the way of clear thinking.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual
you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent
I don't
think it could be!
=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that time alone without the girls to do laundry and
talk on the phone is teh best way to spend your time?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine.
-=-=-=-
BINGO!
-=-=-=-=-=-
By that
time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict
with each
other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door
to do
anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day
being done
by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which
is the
main reason I'm asking for help!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I understand being tired and *done* with the day. But changing how
you're looking at that would make it easier to actually MAKE the
changes.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to
get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know
who I am
other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had
the girls
and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself.
-=-=-=-=-=-
That's was what I was looking for. <G>
You had 37 years to BE Who You Are. Now you're grousing about not
having enough time for yourself?
Maybe try to see it as ALREADY having been "your own person"---now it's
time to be there for your tiny girls.
You're not losing yourself---you're redefining yourself. You're now the
mom of three year old twins. Enjoy it!
As a mom of a now 20 year old son, I can't tell you how fast it goes.
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously---change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Treat each and every evening as if it were your last with the girls.
Would you be in such a hurry to get them to sleep if you know it might
be the last time?
Change your expectations. You'll find that you worry less and less
about getting them to sleep and focus more on the time you get to spend
together.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't work outside the home, and
it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at
least get a
chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
-=-=-=-
Replace resentment with appreciation of the time you get to have with
them---even late in the day.
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are
up/down at all hours?? Is
there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
-=-=-=-=
You have twin girls. Get over it, and get used to it.
Something awful could happen tomorrow, and you could no longer have two
little girls to snuggle with at night. Would you look forward to all
those quiet hours?
Really----stop, think. What is it that you truly want? Twin girls
doesn't equal quiet time. I guess you could be grateful you don't have
triplets. <G> Enjoy what you DO have and make the most of each a and
every minute you DO get with them 'cause there's no guarantee it'll
last.
Oh---and no one's up and down at all hours. We all go to sleep when we
are tired. No struggle. Peace.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I
described it
above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in
that they
start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating,
because I
can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
-=-=-=-=-=-
You're making a HONKING big deal out of having time to yourself after
they go to bed. THEY know something's up---and they want to be there
doing it with you! They don't want to miss a minute! Can you blame
them? You're making such a big deal out of it, it must be something
GRAND! that they're missing by going to bed.
-=-=-=-=-
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o)))
-=-=-=-=-=
Yeah---be WITH them. Have them be a part of the solution. Enjoy the
evenings as a family---not two separate entities: the adults and the
kids. Spend teh time playing quiet games, reading, watching movies, and
snuggling together on the sofa.
The laundry, phones, and dishes can wait. Seriously.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up
again...and
again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get
frustrated because
I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
-=-=-=-=-
Take deep breaths and think of how much time you would have if they
weren't there. How does that fantasy actually look?
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean
it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when
there
are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, but you're looking at it as "as soon as I can get them to sleep,
everything will be fine"---THat's not the attitude to take.
Try "what can I do to make the house peaceful and a nice place to fall
asleep?" and go from there.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Kelly,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Between their bedtime and
mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and
stuff away,
clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury
to read a
book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
-=-=-=-=-
yep---it's all about you? <bwg>
Can't you do those things while they play on the floor at your feet?
Can they not "help" with the dishes and laundry? Can't you watch tv
together?
Oh---and looking at book reading and talking on the phone with a friend
as "luxuries" might be getting in the way of clear thinking.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual
you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent
I don't
think it could be!
=-=-=-=-
So you're saying that time alone without the girls to do laundry and
talk on the phone is teh best way to spend your time?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine.
-=-=-=-
BINGO!
-=-=-=-=-=-
By that
time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict
with each
other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door
to do
anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day
being done
by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which
is the
main reason I'm asking for help!
-=-=-=-=-=-
I understand being tired and *done* with the day. But changing how
you're looking at that would make it easier to actually MAKE the
changes.
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to
get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know
who I am
other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had
the girls
and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself.
-=-=-=-=-=-
That's was what I was looking for. <G>
You had 37 years to BE Who You Are. Now you're grousing about not
having enough time for yourself?
Maybe try to see it as ALREADY having been "your own person"---now it's
time to be there for your tiny girls.
You're not losing yourself---you're redefining yourself. You're now the
mom of three year old twins. Enjoy it!
As a mom of a now 20 year old son, I can't tell you how fast it goes.
Cameron really doesn't want me rocking him and singing him to sleep any
more. <G>
Seriously---change your attitude and start ENJOYING these evenings
together. It doesn't last forever. It doesn't even last a long time.
Treat each and every evening as if it were your last with the girls.
Would you be in such a hurry to get them to sleep if you know it might
be the last time?
Change your expectations. You'll find that you worry less and less
about getting them to sleep and focus more on the time you get to spend
together.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I don't work outside the home, and
it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at
least get a
chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day!
-=-=-=-
Replace resentment with appreciation of the time you get to have with
them---even late in the day.
-=-=-=-=-=-
How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are
up/down at all hours?? Is
there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
-=-=-=-=
You have twin girls. Get over it, and get used to it.
Something awful could happen tomorrow, and you could no longer have two
little girls to snuggle with at night. Would you look forward to all
those quiet hours?
Really----stop, think. What is it that you truly want? Twin girls
doesn't equal quiet time. I guess you could be grateful you don't have
triplets. <G> Enjoy what you DO have and make the most of each a and
every minute you DO get with them 'cause there's no guarantee it'll
last.
Oh---and no one's up and down at all hours. We all go to sleep when we
are tired. No struggle. Peace.
-=-=-=-=-=-
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I
described it
above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in
that they
start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating,
because I
can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
-=-=-=-=-=-
You're making a HONKING big deal out of having time to yourself after
they go to bed. THEY know something's up---and they want to be there
doing it with you! They don't want to miss a minute! Can you blame
them? You're making such a big deal out of it, it must be something
GRAND! that they're missing by going to bed.
-=-=-=-=-
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o)))
-=-=-=-=-=
Yeah---be WITH them. Have them be a part of the solution. Enjoy the
evenings as a family---not two separate entities: the adults and the
kids. Spend teh time playing quiet games, reading, watching movies, and
snuggling together on the sofa.
The laundry, phones, and dishes can wait. Seriously.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I get teased every evening that they're
so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up
again...and
again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get
frustrated because
I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
-=-=-=-=-
Take deep breaths and think of how much time you would have if they
weren't there. How does that fantasy actually look?
-=-=-=-=-=-
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean
it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when
there
are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, but you're looking at it as "as soon as I can get them to sleep,
everything will be fine"---THat's not the attitude to take.
Try "what can I do to make the house peaceful and a nice place to fall
asleep?" and go from there.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
I started to answer earlier, but than I made some peanut butter cups and had some lunch and went to the library and came back and made samosa dough. I don't remember what insightful things I wanted to say anymore. So I'll try this.
It seems you are setting up a dichotomy between your needs and your daughters' needs. I think if you can address that first you won't feel quite so torn up over not having them go to sleep when you want them to. I can remember very clearly lying in bed with Simon when he was 2 and a bit and listening to David playing Tokyo Extreme Racer on the Sega and wanting more than anything to get "my time" and how it wasn't fair that I had to lie in bed with this not really sleepy boy while David got to play and I'd probably fall asleep and then I wouldn't get any time to myself. It made me resentful all over. It made me angry with Simon and with David and angry with myself for falling asleep. When I stopped thinking about how awful it was and how much I was missing, lying in bed with Simon, holding his little chubby hands, talking and reading stories, all of those things became a pleasure.
We don't have bedtimes anymore, my memory is vague, but I think they went out the window when Simon was 4 and Linnaea was a year old. That said, David dictates when we go to bed. We all sleep in the same room, well, sometimes Simon sleeps in a different room, but if Linnaea or Simon wants to snuggle up and listen to a story or watch a DVD with David and me than it is important to go to bed before David falls asleep. Sometimes David will sleep in another room if he has to get up early, or Simon and Linnaea and I will cuddle up somewhere else, it isn't writ in stone, it is flexible and adaptable and ever changing. I don't feel frustrated about it anymore. I don't feel angry or resentful or left out.
Last night Linnaea got upset because Simon and David wanted to go to sleep but she wanted to keep reading book one in the Warrior Cats series. It wasn't an easy moment. It was a moment where she couldn't see a way out and she didn't say what she wanted for a long time. As soon as I figured out what it was she wanted we bundled off downstairs, pillows in hand and snuggled up to read the book in a different bed. I could have stayed angry, I could have decided that we'd read 3 chapters and that was fine, I could have embraced all the negative that was potential in that moment, in last night's bedtime issues, but instead I chose to go downstairs with her. And it was brilliant. I got to read to Linnaea from this book that she is loving and we talked about all the characters and what we think is going to happen next. I could have missed that by making her shut up and go to sleep.
It is brief the point where they need you so much. I can remember a point when I was growing tired of nursing and I bought a book called Mothering your Nursing Toddler. I didn't read very much of it, but something clicked when I held the book in my hands, something that said do I want to still nurse Simon or stop. And I didn't want to stop. As soon as I decided that I didn't mind it anymore. And now I don't have a nursing toddler.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 26 January, 2008 3:29:52 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: More parenting advice please!
Hi Kelly, I'm going to actually answer some of your questions because maybe it will help clarify things for me even more.
~~How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
It takes over an hour for sure, probably closer to an hour and a half. They love their bath so they usually hang out there for quite awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and that's when the fun starts.
~~What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
I go to bed around 10, my husband a little later. I go to yoga early in the mornings (it's the only time I'm alone and I'm a pretty crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent I don't think it could be! If you mean the bedtime ritual with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the ritual.
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine. By that time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main reason I'm asking for help!
~~Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
The sun doesn't come up on their side of the house, plus we have a pull-down blackout blind on their window. They wake up in the pitch dark every day ready to move!
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I described it above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when there are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
Thanks for listening,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It seems you are setting up a dichotomy between your needs and your daughters' needs. I think if you can address that first you won't feel quite so torn up over not having them go to sleep when you want them to. I can remember very clearly lying in bed with Simon when he was 2 and a bit and listening to David playing Tokyo Extreme Racer on the Sega and wanting more than anything to get "my time" and how it wasn't fair that I had to lie in bed with this not really sleepy boy while David got to play and I'd probably fall asleep and then I wouldn't get any time to myself. It made me resentful all over. It made me angry with Simon and with David and angry with myself for falling asleep. When I stopped thinking about how awful it was and how much I was missing, lying in bed with Simon, holding his little chubby hands, talking and reading stories, all of those things became a pleasure.
We don't have bedtimes anymore, my memory is vague, but I think they went out the window when Simon was 4 and Linnaea was a year old. That said, David dictates when we go to bed. We all sleep in the same room, well, sometimes Simon sleeps in a different room, but if Linnaea or Simon wants to snuggle up and listen to a story or watch a DVD with David and me than it is important to go to bed before David falls asleep. Sometimes David will sleep in another room if he has to get up early, or Simon and Linnaea and I will cuddle up somewhere else, it isn't writ in stone, it is flexible and adaptable and ever changing. I don't feel frustrated about it anymore. I don't feel angry or resentful or left out.
Last night Linnaea got upset because Simon and David wanted to go to sleep but she wanted to keep reading book one in the Warrior Cats series. It wasn't an easy moment. It was a moment where she couldn't see a way out and she didn't say what she wanted for a long time. As soon as I figured out what it was she wanted we bundled off downstairs, pillows in hand and snuggled up to read the book in a different bed. I could have stayed angry, I could have decided that we'd read 3 chapters and that was fine, I could have embraced all the negative that was potential in that moment, in last night's bedtime issues, but instead I chose to go downstairs with her. And it was brilliant. I got to read to Linnaea from this book that she is loving and we talked about all the characters and what we think is going to happen next. I could have missed that by making her shut up and go to sleep.
It is brief the point where they need you so much. I can remember a point when I was growing tired of nursing and I bought a book called Mothering your Nursing Toddler. I didn't read very much of it, but something clicked when I held the book in my hands, something that said do I want to still nurse Simon or stop. And I didn't want to stop. As soon as I decided that I didn't mind it anymore. And now I don't have a nursing toddler.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 26 January, 2008 3:29:52 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: More parenting advice please!
Hi Kelly, I'm going to actually answer some of your questions because maybe it will help clarify things for me even more.
~~How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
It takes over an hour for sure, probably closer to an hour and a half. They love their bath so they usually hang out there for quite awhile, then pjs, then a bottle while we cuddle, read books, watch something. They get wound down, are rubbing their eyes, yawning (by now they've been up over 12 hours and are showing lots of signs of being ready to sleep), so then I ask if they want to go to bed and they either say 'not yet' or some version of that, or, 'wanna sleep in my bed' or some version of that. That's when we carry them to bed, my husband or I lay down with them (whoever they ask for) and that's when the fun starts.
~~What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
I go to bed around 10, my husband a little later. I go to yoga early in the mornings (it's the only time I'm alone and I'm a pretty crazy mom without it!), so if I'm not asleep by that time I'm really tired in the morning because I'm up at 5 to make it work before my husband goes to work. Between their bedtime and mine I get a chance to check/write emails, put the chaos of toys and stuff away, clean the kitchen, finish laundry, watch tv, actually have the luxury to read a book or talk to a friend on the phone, you get the picture.
~~How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your options?
If you mean how could the time after they go to sleep be better spent I don't think it could be! If you mean the bedtime ritual with the girls, I don't really think it could be better spent either because they enjoy it, it seems to be what they want, and they aren't asking to do anything else or expressing dislike with the ritual.
I don't necessarily totally enjoy much about the evening routine. By that time I've spent 12+ hours with very intense twins who are in conflict with each other much of the day and make it very challenging to get out the door to do anything at all outside the house. I'm quite interested in the day being done by that point. I'm human! I don't see alot of options right now which is the main reason I'm asking for help!
~~Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
The sun doesn't come up on their side of the house, plus we have a pull-down blackout blind on their window. They wake up in the pitch dark every day ready to move!
~~Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
I guess because I still need to have a life of some kind so I know who I am other than being a mom...I was my own person for 37 years before I had the girls and I feel like I'm rapidly losing myself. I don't work outside the home, and it's SO all about them that I struggle with resentment if I don't at least get a chance to read a chapter in a book and go to yoga every day! How do other unschoolers handle this aspect when their kids are up/down at all hours?? Is there never to be a quiet hour in the house for me to just be me?
And what you describe above is exactly what we do, and I think I described it above that they ask to go to bed and then it's after they're tucked in that they start the 'I need something' or some version of that. Frustrating, because I can plainly see that they are so tired but they won't stop moving!!
~~How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
I don't know, can you tell me? :o))) I get teased every evening that they're so tired they're actually going to sleep, and then...they're up again...and again...and again...it's really really challenging to not get frustrated because I feel like by this point I have absolutely no patience left at all.
~~Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
I totally get that things get different quickly and all the time when there are little ones in the house. See above answer! :o)
Thanks for listening,
Jodi
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
I do make sure and ask them to gather what they want before we tuck in,
and we
usually do a tour together so they can peruse their collection of stuff
and
gather what they want. It doesn't really make sense for bedtime to be
later -
they wake around 7 no matter what time they go to bed and are very
tired by 8
p.m. - they don't stop moving all day and we always run around outside
for a
nature walk or park play of some kind too. So...it also doesn't work
for them
to stay up after we go to bed since at 3 yrs they are quite destructive
and very
much get into things kids and I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering
what they
were getting into next and not knowing for sure if they were safe or
not without
someone checking in on them. If they would ever sleep in it wouldn't
be such a
big deal, but man, are they owly when they don't get the sleep they
need! And
at 3 do little people really know how to fix sleep deprivation??
Sometimes
during the day they say they are tired, but
will never just sit/lie down to rest or have a nap. Thanks for your
response -
every little bit helps!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So...you have their bedtime set at 8:00pm. They always wake at 7:00am.
They don't nap.
How long does the bedtime ritual take? How long from the time you say
"bedtime" to the time they actually go to sleep?
What time do you and your husband go to bed? What do you do between the
girls' bedtime and your own? What do you do between the time the girls
are actually *asleep* and the time you go to bed?
How do you think that time could be better spent? Do you enjoy the
ritual you've set up? Do the girls? What do *you* think are your
options?
Does the sun come up on their side of the house? Can you put up dark,
dark shades in the girls' room to keep them down past 7:00am?
Can you live without a "bedtime"? You could still have a routine to get
ready for bed, but them everyone could gather in bed together and read
or talk or watch a movie. Let the girls fall asleep while watching a
movie in your arms. Then carry them to bed. Why the need for bedtime?
How could you better spend your time each evening that wouldn't be a
nightly struggle?
Just because bedtime has worked since they were little doesn't mean it
can still work. You may need to think outside your box. How could you
better spend that hour or two?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
What is it they say - the truth will set you free but first it will
piss you
off?
-=-=-=-=-
Guess what! I have that bumper sticker! <LOL>
-=-=-=-=-
You are a bit of a hardass in your delivery aren't you? <G>.
-=-=-
Well, that worked for me. <g>
If you want sweet, wait for Marji or Rue or Meredith or Gail. <G>
If you want practical, Joyce and Deb Rossing be along soon.
Funny? Deb Lewis. Hands down.
Ren's kind of my alter ego. When I'm nice, she's not...and so it goes.
<g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
You've likely already read the email I sent regarding the way I felt
when I read this.
-=-=-=-
My second (at 36) was a surprise too. Took some getting used to. But
the nice thing was that I already had an eight year old, so I *knew* it
would get easier. <g> I'd had time to look back and reflect (and this
was before we discovered unschooling and peaceful parenting). Two at
once certainly takes some getting used to, but if you can see the light
at the end of the tunnel (mostly by peeking into others' busy lives),
the walk seems shorter. And believe me, it's a very, VERY short walk!
They're teenagers before you can blink. It just *seems* like a long
road from where you're standing! <G>
-=-=-=-=-
I was 36 and I get that this isn't about you and it isn't about my
girls, it's about my
lingering resentment at having this 'happen to me' instead of choosing
it and
feeling hard done by. I get that it's about changing my perspective,
and I get
that it's challenging to do that. Yes, it's a decision, but it's
likely one to
be remade and remade and remade again until it's a habitual way of
thinking. I
also get that it's about the logistics of how do we make this work so
*everyone*
wins.
-=-=-=-
Right.
It's simple, but it's not easy.
But the more you *do* it, the easier it gets. Start *DO*ing. <G>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
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From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
What is it they say - the truth will set you free but first it will
piss you
off?
-=-=-=-=-
Guess what! I have that bumper sticker! <LOL>
-=-=-=-=-
You are a bit of a hardass in your delivery aren't you? <G>.
-=-=-
Well, that worked for me. <g>
If you want sweet, wait for Marji or Rue or Meredith or Gail. <G>
If you want practical, Joyce and Deb Rossing be along soon.
Funny? Deb Lewis. Hands down.
Ren's kind of my alter ego. When I'm nice, she's not...and so it goes.
<g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
You've likely already read the email I sent regarding the way I felt
when I read this.
-=-=-=-
My second (at 36) was a surprise too. Took some getting used to. But
the nice thing was that I already had an eight year old, so I *knew* it
would get easier. <g> I'd had time to look back and reflect (and this
was before we discovered unschooling and peaceful parenting). Two at
once certainly takes some getting used to, but if you can see the light
at the end of the tunnel (mostly by peeking into others' busy lives),
the walk seems shorter. And believe me, it's a very, VERY short walk!
They're teenagers before you can blink. It just *seems* like a long
road from where you're standing! <G>
-=-=-=-=-
I was 36 and I get that this isn't about you and it isn't about my
girls, it's about my
lingering resentment at having this 'happen to me' instead of choosing
it and
feeling hard done by. I get that it's about changing my perspective,
and I get
that it's challenging to do that. Yes, it's a decision, but it's
likely one to
be remade and remade and remade again until it's a habitual way of
thinking. I
also get that it's about the logistics of how do we make this work so
*everyone*
wins.
-=-=-=-
Right.
It's simple, but it's not easy.
But the more you *do* it, the easier it gets. Start *DO*ing. <G>
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Faith Void
This is something that has bothered me on several lists (though not to
pick on Marji personally):
have always listened to their cues and helped facilitate their needs,
like sleeping, etc. But both my kids have stayed up later than they
were able to handle. I have not ever set a bedtime for them but that
doesn't mean that helping them learn their owns cues went off without
a hitch. Sometimes my 5 y/o wants to do something or watch something
that occurs after he is tired, he will push it. And will act a bit
wild and more demanding when he is tired. It isn't always beautiful,
sometimes it is really challenging but I wouldn't change it for the
world.
Faith
pick on Marji personally):
> This is an excellent question! We have never had a bedtime in ourI have been an "AP" parent since birth for all my kidlets, happily. I
> house. Liam has always let me know when he was ready for bed, and
> then we'd do it. Because the timing was always up to him, he never,
> ever stayed awake longer than he wanted to. And, by the time he was
> ready, he was ready! It helps, I suppose, that we always
> co-slept. I'd read to him, and if he fell asleep before I did, I'd
> get up after he fell asleep. If I fell asleep too, that was okay.
>
> This laid-back attitude has always worked out beautifully in our home
> and going to sleep has never, ever, ever been anything other than a
> loving and joyful time. It still is!
>
> ~Marji
have always listened to their cues and helped facilitate their needs,
like sleeping, etc. But both my kids have stayed up later than they
were able to handle. I have not ever set a bedtime for them but that
doesn't mean that helping them learn their owns cues went off without
a hitch. Sometimes my 5 y/o wants to do something or watch something
that occurs after he is tired, he will push it. And will act a bit
wild and more demanding when he is tired. It isn't always beautiful,
sometimes it is really challenging but I wouldn't change it for the
world.
Faith
diana jenner
On Jan 26, 2008 11:36 AM, Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
unschooling folk ~ parents and kids)
I am personally on the obtuse side. I don't often *get the hint* and I
prefer to be spoken to directly.
And yet I don't much always like what folks say when they speak directly.
Sometimes my feelings are hurt.
AND I realize that evolving (becoming *more* and *better*) is a more
important process than my feelings may reflect.
Erroneous thoughts hurt. I'd prefer not to have them. When I have them
unconsciously (habitually) I'm glad there are folks in my life (to whom I go
*voluntarily*) who will point them out. Show me that *I* can only change
*my* thinking, I can only change *my* behaviors, I can only change *my*
perspective.
Hand holding and head patting have yet to turn anyone into a better parent.
A kick in the pants isn't a bad thing at all, if you can see it as a nudge
in your perspective and not a personal attack. You've got ONE now and it's
right here. Your babies are gonna be babies for a teeny tiny blip on their
life's journey. You *get to* be an attentive mama who *realizes she's the
grownup and will have plenty of time to remain a grownup long after her
babies aren't babies any more* and who loves them wholly (without martyrdom)
because she's wholly grateful to have this here, right now.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What is it they say - the truth will set you free but first it will pissWe were just talking about this at lunch. (a meeting of several local
> you off? You are a bit of a hardass in your delivery aren't you? <G>. You've
> likely already read the email I sent regarding the way I felt when I read
> this. I get that this isn't about you and it isn't about my girls, it's
> about my lingering resentment at having this 'happen to me' instead of
> choosing it and feeling hard done by. I get that it's about changing my
> perspective, and I get that it's challenging to do that. Yes, it's a
> decision, but it's likely one to be remade and remade and remade again until
> it's a habitual way of thinking. I also get that it's about the logistics of
> how do we make this work so *everyone* wins.
>
unschooling folk ~ parents and kids)
I am personally on the obtuse side. I don't often *get the hint* and I
prefer to be spoken to directly.
And yet I don't much always like what folks say when they speak directly.
Sometimes my feelings are hurt.
AND I realize that evolving (becoming *more* and *better*) is a more
important process than my feelings may reflect.
Erroneous thoughts hurt. I'd prefer not to have them. When I have them
unconsciously (habitually) I'm glad there are folks in my life (to whom I go
*voluntarily*) who will point them out. Show me that *I* can only change
*my* thinking, I can only change *my* behaviors, I can only change *my*
perspective.
Hand holding and head patting have yet to turn anyone into a better parent.
A kick in the pants isn't a bad thing at all, if you can see it as a nudge
in your perspective and not a personal attack. You've got ONE now and it's
right here. Your babies are gonna be babies for a teeny tiny blip on their
life's journey. You *get to* be an attentive mama who *realizes she's the
grownup and will have plenty of time to remain a grownup long after her
babies aren't babies any more* and who loves them wholly (without martyrdom)
because she's wholly grateful to have this here, right now.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I have been an "AP" parent since birth for all my kidlets, happily. I
have always listened to their cues and helped facilitate their needs,
like sleeping, etc. But both my kids have stayed up later than they
were able to handle. I have not ever set a bedtime for them but that
doesn't mean that helping them learn their owns cues went off without
a hitch. Sometimes my 5 y/o wants to do something or watch something
that occurs after he is tired, he will push it. And will act a bit
wild and more demanding when he is tired. It isn't always beautiful,
sometimes it is really challenging but I wouldn't change it for the
world.
Faith
\=\==\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
Don't you sometimes push yourself over your own limits???
Why wouldn't a child that has not figured it out everything ( neither have we), not push her own limits? Why can't that child even choose to it.
My 5 yo ds sometimes wants to keep playing his games but is too tired so he keeps "loosing'.
He gets really frustrated. We talk about it. That if he is tired he won't play as good, but I let him do it. He has in that last couple of months put the two together and now he just gets up and go to bed when he is like that.
It is healthy to push you won limits even in unschooled children.
I choose to stay up later to read, watch my dvr'd shows and do my SudokU.
I know I will be tired in the morning but I still do it.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have always listened to their cues and helped facilitate their needs,
like sleeping, etc. But both my kids have stayed up later than they
were able to handle. I have not ever set a bedtime for them but that
doesn't mean that helping them learn their owns cues went off without
a hitch. Sometimes my 5 y/o wants to do something or watch something
that occurs after he is tired, he will push it. And will act a bit
wild and more demanding when he is tired. It isn't always beautiful,
sometimes it is really challenging but I wouldn't change it for the
world.
Faith
\=\==\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
Don't you sometimes push yourself over your own limits???
Why wouldn't a child that has not figured it out everything ( neither have we), not push her own limits? Why can't that child even choose to it.
My 5 yo ds sometimes wants to keep playing his games but is too tired so he keeps "loosing'.
He gets really frustrated. We talk about it. That if he is tired he won't play as good, but I let him do it. He has in that last couple of months put the two together and now he just gets up and go to bed when he is like that.
It is healthy to push you won limits even in unschooled children.
I choose to stay up later to read, watch my dvr'd shows and do my SudokU.
I know I will be tired in the morning but I still do it.
Alex
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I love the way Kelly is direct. It has helped me a lot.
I also have met Kelly and her family in person and even had her in my house for a couple of days.
She is this petite soft spoken, smart, funny and warm person.
But a couple of month ago I was not being my best and needed to talk to someone.
So I called her because I knew I was not going to get a pat on my shoulder.
AS direct as she is when she writes she is very supporting, caring, and loving but no bs there! That is what I needed.
One of the things that is hard for me to hang out with the mainstream moms is that there is this us against them mentality and I can't help but hate it.
They are always complaining about their kids and what they have to do and put up with.
I see my kids as my joy. I do have a life, I have other interests. But nothing comes close to what my kids mean to me.
Kelly for example is an avid gardener. She even started pullings weeds in my yard when she was here. LOL We both love dogs, dog shows, grooming dogs and all.
It will all be there when our kids grow, we just may need to scale it down for a few years.
Tonigh after your kids go to bed try to go in theri room and watch them sleep for a few minutes. The site of you children asleep is one of the most beautiful things in the world!
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I also have met Kelly and her family in person and even had her in my house for a couple of days.
She is this petite soft spoken, smart, funny and warm person.
But a couple of month ago I was not being my best and needed to talk to someone.
So I called her because I knew I was not going to get a pat on my shoulder.
AS direct as she is when she writes she is very supporting, caring, and loving but no bs there! That is what I needed.
One of the things that is hard for me to hang out with the mainstream moms is that there is this us against them mentality and I can't help but hate it.
They are always complaining about their kids and what they have to do and put up with.
I see my kids as my joy. I do have a life, I have other interests. But nothing comes close to what my kids mean to me.
Kelly for example is an avid gardener. She even started pullings weeds in my yard when she was here. LOL We both love dogs, dog shows, grooming dogs and all.
It will all be there when our kids grow, we just may need to scale it down for a few years.
Tonigh after your kids go to bed try to go in theri room and watch them sleep for a few minutes. The site of you children asleep is one of the most beautiful things in the world!
Alex
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