Laura Frantz

Hi, all. My name is Laura. I have two children, a six year-old
daughter and a four year-old son. We are new to unschooling, and new
to the formal concept of gentle parenting. We were very AP when the
kids were small. We co-slept, nursed on demand, I wore the babies in
slings and Baby Bjorns...then I seemed to lose patience with them as
they got older. I had no idea how to handle their emerging
personalities, and most of the advice I received involved control,
punishment and rewards. We started spanking for practically every
little "offense", and I was very controlling with them. Our
relationship was (understandably) very strained for over a year, with
lots of whining, hurting and YELLING, unfortunately. I am not sure how
I went from such a gentle mama to an angry, scary mama, but I did. It
did not help to have other moms at church telling me that The Rod is
the only way to get your kids to OBEY, and other ideas along those lines.

I am now starting down a path of healing our relationships, and I am
reading everything I can get my hands on about unschooling. Being a
member at AlwaysUnschooled has been very eye opening. I've let go of
having to control everything that my kids see or do, and they've been
much happier, more affectionate, they are thriving, really. We've
rediscovered DVDs and computer games, and I've pretty much shelved all
of the workbooks we used religiously. I've also rediscovered the
gentle mama that I had been when they were little.

So I look forward to learning from all of you, and feel privileged to
have access to some of unschooling's pioneers. Thanks!

Laura

rebecca de

Welcome Laura, I am also new to unschooling. I've been reading on this group and others for at least a couple of years (on and off) and with the new year I've just made the full jump into unschooling! This is an awesome group of unschoolers. And with the yelling and angry momma syndrome -- I can totally relate. I just had a whole weeks worth of discussion, soul searching, etc with the other group I belong to of unschoolers in michigan. Whew, changing can be hard but we must do it for our own selves and our children!

Susan Wiltbank <mommyswork2@...> wrote: Welcome Laura! I don't participate much in this group, but I always read such great advice. They don't hesitate to make you stop and think about the type of life you want for your family. I absolutely LOVE IT!
Susie

----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Frantz<mailto:ljlaurajoy@...>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Yet another introduction

Hi, all. My name is Laura. I have two children, a six year-old
daughter and a four year-old son. We are new to unschooling, and new
to the formal concept of gentle parenting. We were very AP when the
kids were small. We co-slept, nursed on demand, I wore the babies in
slings and Baby Bjorns...then I seemed to lose patience with them as
they got older. I had no idea how to handle their emerging
personalities, and most of the advice I received involved control,
punishment and rewards. We started spanking for practically every
little "offense", and I was very controlling with them. Our
relationship was (understandably) very strained for over a year, with
lots of whining, hurting and YELLING, unfortunately. I am not sure how
I went from such a gentle mama to an angry, scary mama, but I did. It
did not help to have other moms at church telling me that The Rod is
the only way to get your kids to OBEY, and other ideas along those lines.

I am now starting down a path of healing our relationships, and I am
reading everything I can get my hands on about unschooling. Being a
member at AlwaysUnschooled has been very eye opening. I've let go of
having to control everything that my kids see or do, and they've been
much happier, more affectionate, they are thriving, really. We've
rediscovered DVDs and computer games, and I've pretty much shelved all
of the workbooks we used religiously. I've also rediscovered the
gentle mama that I had been when they were little.

So I look forward to learning from all of you, and feel privileged to
have access to some of unschooling's pioneers. Thanks!

Laura

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

Hi, Laura -

Welcome! I've been thinking lately on why AP when they're small, that
seems to come SO easily (at least it did for me), doesn't always
transition to gentle parenting/consensual living/radical unschooling
when they're older. I'm still mulling it over, it'll probably be a
blog entry one day, but just last night I was thinking so much of it
has to do with who's around us, and the type of parenting support we
receive.

Damn! Saying that just gave me a HUGE rush of appreciation for those
RU parents who were RU before the internet. I'm guessing there were
some! lol I SO rely on groups like this to provide the safety net
around me. I know there was Growing Without Schooling, and a whole
community around that magazine. It's hard for me to imagine what that
would have looked like. Anyone written about that?

Anyway - I was definitely AP, but like you, began moving away from
that as my son aged. But -- reluctantly! I knew in my heart I wanted a
different way to parent, to be. But everyone in my support group here
(mostly La Leche League parents) were "moving on", putting their kids
in preschool, handing out harsher and harsher consequences for
"misbehavior". I was still *mostly* a gentle parent, but if you think
you're supposed to be making your kid do something they don't want to
do, you're going to be mean, eventually. I *wanted* to follow Evan's
lead, but *no one* around me was living that way, and I heard over and
over how I'd ruin his life if I didn't "parent" him differently. So I
began mistrusting my gut.

Well - never again! After 1st and 2nd grades at a charter school, we
found unschooling, which led to radical unschooling. I wonder if I
hadn't had a computer at home, where we'd be? No need to dwell there!

I was very touched by your e-mail. I'm so glad you found AU, and this
group as well. I look forward to hearing about your journey.

peace,
Caren
in Charlotte, NC

Susan Wiltbank

Welcome Laura! I don't participate much in this group, but I always read such great advice. They don't hesitate to make you stop and think about the type of life you want for your family. I absolutely LOVE IT!
Susie

----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Frantz<mailto:ljlaurajoy@...>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Yet another introduction


Hi, all. My name is Laura. I have two children, a six year-old
daughter and a four year-old son. We are new to unschooling, and new
to the formal concept of gentle parenting. We were very AP when the
kids were small. We co-slept, nursed on demand, I wore the babies in
slings and Baby Bjorns...then I seemed to lose patience with them as
they got older. I had no idea how to handle their emerging
personalities, and most of the advice I received involved control,
punishment and rewards. We started spanking for practically every
little "offense", and I was very controlling with them. Our
relationship was (understandably) very strained for over a year, with
lots of whining, hurting and YELLING, unfortunately. I am not sure how
I went from such a gentle mama to an angry, scary mama, but I did. It
did not help to have other moms at church telling me that The Rod is
the only way to get your kids to OBEY, and other ideas along those lines.

I am now starting down a path of healing our relationships, and I am
reading everything I can get my hands on about unschooling. Being a
member at AlwaysUnschooled has been very eye opening. I've let go of
having to control everything that my kids see or do, and they've been
much happier, more affectionate, they are thriving, really. We've
rediscovered DVDs and computer games, and I've pretty much shelved all
of the workbooks we used religiously. I've also rediscovered the
gentle mama that I had been when they were little.

So I look forward to learning from all of you, and feel privileged to
have access to some of unschooling's pioneers. Thanks!

Laura





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi, Laura!

I hope you feel good about your changes - you are making such important
strides forward. That is challenging and brave! What a wonderful thing to show
your children - courage and strength to feel and use your gut.

Read all the women's blogs/pages here. They are FULL of simplicity (it is
simple, just not always easy when you come from such a stronghold especially)
and love and direction and support - and full of helping you to trust
yourself and your kids. I use Joyce's (Fetteroll, though I may have spelled her last
name wrong!) regularly, and Sandra Dodd's, among others. Dayna Martin is a
good one to try out, too :) Also, The Natural Parenting Project may be one
you'd like. I know too of a bunch of Radical Unschooling Christian sites and No
Spank sites too - biblically and otherwise based.

enjoy the ride! It's the journey, not the destination, right :)

Warmly,
Karen



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

Hi, I've been reading all the posts (I wouldn't miss them for the world!) and they are so helpful, so insightful, so confirming that I'm on the right track for my kids and for our family. I LOVE the Abraham Hicks quote! I am also part of an AP yahoo group here in Calgary, and it's amazing how the thinking kind of just stops when kids hit around 3, when their "attitude" starts and people start choosing traditional discipline over their hearts.

That thought is the reason I'm writing really. I love what I read about giving our children freedom, and I'm all for it to keep them away from school and let them direct their learning, but I haven't read much about the years before - up to age 5 or so I guess, or perhaps even 4. My girls are 3 and a bit right now and life just feels hard most days. They are very busy, very opinionated, very determined, very self-sufficient, and while these are all qualities that I admire and that I know will serve them very well throughout their lives (so I have no desire to change them), I still feel like I'm parenting much like I was parented, minus the spanking.

I'm guess I'm learning that unschooling is so much more than just keeping my kids out of school, and yet I don't really know what that looks like. I would SO love to hang out at Sandra's house, or Joyce's house, or Ren's house, just to get a feel for what the days are like. I still have this picture of kids running amok with no order whatsoever and the parents going nuts, but that's so different that what I'm hearing. I've also read detailed emails about people's days, and I'm still coming up short! Is this part of my own deschooling process to feel so confused and unsure?? My heart says this is so aligned with everything I'm really about underneath all my years of conditioning, but I don't really know what to do next. I want someone on my shoulder to tell me!!!

I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old wired up tired kids to go to bed, I want to know what mealtimes look like, I want to know how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have somewhere you have to be, I just feel so out of my element and like letting it all flow is a little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own house letting the girls decide so much for themselves.

Please help! :o)

Thank you from my heart,

Jodi
Mom to Jade & Skye (3) just wanting to get it right!

Kidgie@... wrote:
Hi, Laura!

I hope you feel good about your changes - you are making such important
strides forward. That is challenging and brave! What a wonderful thing to show
your children - courage and strength to feel and use your gut.

Read all the women's blogs/pages here. They are FULL of simplicity (it is
simple, just not always easy when you come from such a stronghold especially)
and love and direction and support - and full of helping you to trust
yourself and your kids. I use Joyce's (Fetteroll, though I may have spelled her last
name wrong!) regularly, and Sandra Dodd's, among others. Dayna Martin is a
good one to try out, too :) Also, The Natural Parenting Project may be one
you'd like. I know too of a bunch of Radical Unschooling Christian sites and No
Spank sites too - biblically and otherwise based.

enjoy the ride! It's the journey, not the destination, right :)

Warmly,
Karen

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/2008 9:55:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jodibezzola@... writes:

I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old wired up
tired kids to go to bed, I want to know what mealtimes look like, I want to know
how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have somewhere you
have to be, I just feel so out of my element and like letting it all flow is a
little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own house letting
the girls decide so much for themselves.



___________________

Ok, I'll break it down. I have a 5 year old son and a 2 year old daughter
I've been unschooling since the start, and 3 big kids that I didn't at ALL until
just almost 2 years ago for the 18 year old and since Nov. for the 15 year
old. The 20 year old no longer lives at home with me.

bedtime: my kids love routine. so, we eat dinner at around 5, watch tv at
the same time usually (we are all into bindi the jungle girl right now!), and i
turn on the dim lights we have. then, by around 6, we head off to the bath,
where we'll have a bubble bath, or play with toys we froze into ice
containers, or some such thing. then after a warm and cozy bath, we get on jammies,
watch an episode of peep and the big wide world, lol, with the lights off,
cuddling, then julian goes to play a video game with papa while i nurse julia to
sleep (around 7), then we switch, and julian comes up by 8ish, and io nurse
him to sleep.

the routine we have is flexible, of course, and its changed a lot over the
course of the 5 years julian's been here :) but since my kids do really well
with routine (not structure), this has been really good for us. really, its
just looking for their cues as they become tired, and supporting that by
softening the lights and staying regular - not all kids of course are like this, but
we can all follow our children's cues. noticing them and responding to them
is the biggest step (vs an imposed bedtime, we work with their body clock,
which is very much like the sun clock).

Jackets - well, we live in calif., in the southern part, so its not often
needed, but i keep jackets in the car, tell them or show them what the weather
is like and then make sure there is time - and lots of it - to discuss the
coat, the weather, if we need one or want one, the bird that just flew by, if
its cold up in that airplane, lol, you get the idea. lots of time, give as much
as possible all the time, so when you *are* rushed, they know they are heard
at other times and it all seems to balance out. patience, time, enjoy each
bit of it as much as you can - it helps sooo much, as the kids know their
needs and wants are just as important as yours.

mealtimes...lol...um, we do eat in a more routine manner than some families,
i'm sure, but we are complicated by 2 young adult kids that have heavy
social priorities and my dh, who has only semi-regular hours. we work best with
this "method": I make one main meal like thing a day that works for lunch or
dinner, and the big kids and DH eat that, along with myself. If the little ones
like it, they eat it too, of course, but Julian is very discerning at this
point, so dinners for the kids is usually a bit different. But we have
breakfast of cereals or toast and juice, once in a while, if they ask, ice cream :)
Pumpkin pie is a GREAT breakfast - eat your veggies! lol! they usually want to
eat within an hour of waking up, and they wake around 7 usually. I make a
midmorning snack for them, usually fruit or crackers, or both, and then we eat
a lunch around 1. That is often quesadillas, or hotdogs, raw veggies, fish or
chicken, and often it's the biggest meal of the day. Dinner, as I said
above, around 5, and varies from oatmeal to cold cereal, to a huge, traditional
thing. Homemade pizza is a big one here, too, for all meals :)

If you are feeling apprehensive about giving them so much control so fast,
go more slowly. Say yes as often as possible, just a few times more a day.
Allow for time and talking and exploring things. Look over what they eat after a
week, not per meal or per day even. Maybe even a month. Read a lot of stuff
on this style of being, listen a lot, ask tons of questions, but above all,
be with your kids and really keep tuning in with them. It's a wonderful life,
truly - and that anxiety will die down, I swear!

Karen in So. Cal.



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathy Culwell

>>>>>>>>I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old wired up tired kids to go to bed, I want to know what mealtimes look like, I want to know how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have somewhere you have to be, I just feel so out of my element and like letting it all flow is a little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own house letting the girls decide so much for themselves.>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a wired up fired up 4 1/2 yr old. He still nurses to sleep so its not an issue
for us, thankfully. Most nights I am quite relieved by the time he passes out LOL.
But there was a time when I had lots of littles and not all of them were nursing.
I can remember sitting on the couch reading and they would fall asleep around
me as I nursed the youngest. Or the many nights they would fall asleep on the
floor next to me while I was on the computer (nursing the youngest). I would
then carry each and everyone to there beds. In those early days, they would
all still wind up in bed with me, at one time we were five to a bed! Pretty stretched
but they all still needed me so. The older two shared a bed for a few years too.
I should using this method they often didn't fall asleep before10pm, often as late
as midnight. I used to stay up even later just to have some time alone.

Dylan eats all day long. We(older sibs,dad,me) fix him food constantly and he
has foods he is able to get for himself, yogurt, fruit etc. When I make meals for
the family, he usually eats with us whatever we are eating,modified to meet his
needs (ie, chicken noodle soup, minus the chicken <g>). He usually likes
to eat with us in addition to his all day long grazing. I don't often have to fix
him something entirely different than what the rest of the family is eating, but
if he really has a taste for something else I accomodate.

Clothing isn't that big of an issue as we live in S. CA. When its
cold and he doesn't want a coat, I just bring it with us.

Dylan is loud, busy, bold, loving and sweet. I often think of him in my mind
as a whirling dervish, ready to spin off into the sunset. But...I have proof,
real physical proof, that meeting the needs of my wild, impulsive young ones
turns out well. My older kids are mellow, easy going, well liked by young
and old, considerate and fair. It works. It just takes time ; )

Kathy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~or Ren's house, just to
get a feel for what the days are like. I still have this picture of kids
running amok with no order whatsoever and the parents going nuts, but
that's so different that what I'm hearing.~~

Oh, there are moments..believe me.;) The unschooling life certainly
doesn't guarantee calm and bliss around every corner, but I can't
imagine living any other way now. It's a great recipe for healthy,
happy relationships but even within those there are bumps and rough
moments.

I will answer more in depth when I have more time. I'd like to address
more of your concerns. Right now, I have two kids waiting for me to
snuggle to sleep with them (yes, they are saying "c'mon, let's go to
BED") and I work tomorrow so I certainly should listen to them.;)

G'night.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>
I am also part of an AP yahoo group here in Calgary, and it's
amazing how the thinking kind of just stops when kids hit around 3,
when their "attitude" starts and people start choosing traditional
discipline over their hearts.

I think attachment parenting is "easy" when the child is a baby
because they do not talk back and they have no way of trying to get
what they want.


>
> My girls are 3 and a bit right now and life just feels hard most
days. They are very busy, very opinionated, very determined, very
self-sufficient,


this is my girls as well- I have a 5 and 3 yr old. The 5 yr old was
challenging but I could "control" her with punishments and timeouts-
we did not have a relationship- the little one is now 3 and she is
the one who led me to AP and Unschooling--(I have a 14 yr old and
was looking at schooling options)


>
> I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old
wired up tired kids to go to bed,

My 3 yr old is a night owl- and wired until she drops- recently she
has sat by me to read books but before 3 there was no way she could
hold still- I removed the bottle at almost 2 and probably saved her
life and myself a prison sentence by giving it back--- she was not
able to self soothe or let me do anything to help her. this was pre
unschooling where I was supposed to be "training" her.

now about 9ish I start making sure they have ate something and see
if they want a bath- sometimes pj's- the oldest one sleeps really
warm and so she sleeps in her undies- the other one wears a shirt

then I ask if they want me to read books- I read until the little
one is playing more than listening- she listens while she moves but
is getting closer to the book. Then the older one puts on a movie
and drinks a bottle- though i am not sure I should admit that my
almost 5 yr old has a bottle- she tried out her sisters and was
hooked- it helps her to relax- I figure they both would have been
extended nursers had I know such a thing exisited. Also sucking from
a bottle is much the same as sucking from a sippy cup. After more
than a year they are both having less and less


>I want to know what mealtimes look like,

we do not really have mealtimes but times we eat- we eat when hungry-
the 14 yr old plays world of warcraft and stays up till wee hours
of morning and so he sleeps in and eats differently- he rarely eats
what I make for dinner but we keep things he wants to eat on hand.
The girls eat what I think they will eat or what they tell me to
make and I usually make dinner for me and my husband-

we do not eat up to the table as that was torture for us all- I was
taught that we always eat at the table and my husband could not do
it so we abandoned the idea and meal times are much nicer now.


>I want to know how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when
you have somewhere you have to be,

If they think they do not need coats or shoes I ask them to go out
on the balcony to see if what it feels like- if that does not work I
say ok I will carry it in case you change your mind- which they
mostly do by the time we get to the car- if not then oh well-

If we have to be somewhere I explain the night before that we have
to go somewhere and how it will all work and then in the morning we
start getting ready- for them it means going out in their pj's- I do
not do hair unless they want it and I bring cereal in bags to eat in
the car.



> I just feel so out of my element and like letting it all flow is a
little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own house
letting the girls decide so much for themselves.
>

its not that they get to decide all on their own- you are guiding
them you give them the info that because of their age they are
missing- you let them know that they do not have to wear their coat
but you are wearing your because it is cold out- you interact with
them all the time-- ALL THE TIME----- when they want to do something
you help them do it safely-

hope this helps
Julie

Melissa Gray

I have seven kids, ages 12, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4 and 2. So our routine
probably looks a lot different than others...but it seems to me that
every unschooler is a lot different that others, so I don't know how
helpful THAT was. Sorry.

We do try to make sure that late evening are calmer in our house,
because there are so many of us that it's just respectful to honor
the wishes of the little people. Avari is two, and she will be
exhausted and if someone is still movin' and groovin' it's hard for
her to sleep. So I asked the older kids for two hours every evening
where we just chill. They were happy to oblige (yeah, because
everyone gets private time with the littles asleep!) So we usually
have baths or wash our hands and face with lavender water, put on
jammies, brush teeth. We have piles of our favorite books on the
floor right next to the beds, and we do a traveling story time. We
usually start off in the boys room, with everyone crowded around I
Spy books, and sometimes How it Works. Then we head downstairs to the
girls room to do her little Maisy and Blue's Clues stories. We
snuggle and kiss, and about half of the time lay down with her until
she's asleep. Sam and Dan are very understanding that I snuggle with
them a little bit, then head downstairs to snuggle the girls, then
bounce around. Avari and Breanna, I travel back and forth, and
usually while I'm checking on the other one, kissing and snuggling,
the other starts dozing. So I wake them for one last kiss and sweet
dreams, and they go to sleep.

Mealtimes, I make one big meal each for breakfast lunch and dinner.
They eat what they want, but I usually only make stuff most people
like. Anyone who doesn't like it can reheat leftovers from another
night or make ramen or something. We usually do eat together, but the
older kids will be running in and out because they are involved in a
craft or show. There's usually at least one person reading at the
table. They usually WANT to all be together. But if they don't want
to eat, they can always come in later and get something. We do
always have a snack tray out, after about four pm if they come in
I'll remind them that dinner is in two hours, this is what we're
having, so that they are making educated choices about if they want
to fill up or not.

Coats? We have weather check. It's just something we've done since
our oldest was little. I always hated my mom saying 'get a coat!'
when I wasn't cold. Old people get cold faster, that's just a
fact ;-) Okay, maybe not, but I do know that my kids feel temperature
differently than I do. So, we have weather checks. They know who
feels like them, so if Emily says it's good for long sleeve t-shirts
and no coat, Rachel can wear shortsleeves and Sam will want a sweat
shirt, etc etc. I always offer a coat to the littles, and usually we
have spares in the truck. JIC. They just learn. At this point, the
littles will holler "I'm doin the weather check!!!!!" so it's working
out well, everyone running around in their various states of undress
laughing about being cold.

I like what someone else said. That when you are first starting that
you start by letting go of the little stuff. Say yes more often. When
that succeeds, you'll see that it really does work. And then you'll
be happy with letting go of more. Three seems like very young, I
know, but Dan was almost three when we started unschooling, and he
was the first child I ever had to said to me "Momma, I tired, I get
in bed now."
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma

>
> In a message dated 1/19/2008 9:55:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jodibezzola@... writes:
>
> I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old
> wired up
> tired kids to go to bed, I want to know what mealtimes look like, I
> want to know
> how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have
> somewhere you
> have to be, I just feel so out of my element and like letting it
> all flow is a
> little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own
> house letting
> the girls decide so much for themselves.
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (7)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>\

I'm guess I'm learning that unschooling is so much more than just
keeping my
kids out of school, and yet I don't really know what that looks like.
I would
SO love to hang out at Sandra's house, or Joyce's house, or Ren's
house, just to
get a feel for what the days are like.

-=-=-=-=-

Where do you live? Maybe you're close to someone? Maybe we can hook you
up? <g>

Also---conferences are HUGE! Find one near you---or just make your way
to one far, far away. It WILL make a difference!

-=-=-=-=-=-

I still have this picture of kids
running amok with no order whatsoever and the parents going nuts, but
that's so
different that what I'm hearing.

-=-=-=-=-

And yet that's *still* the picture people get. Go figure!

-=-=-==-

I've also read detailed emails about people's
days, and I'm still coming up short! Is this part of my own
deschooling process
to feel so confused and unsure??

-=-=-=-

Yep. This is new and strange territory for most of us--if not ALL of us!

If you *didn't* feel confused and unsure, I might be worried. <G>

-=-=-=-=-

My heart says this is so aligned with
everything I'm really about underneath all my years of conditioning,
but I don't
really know what to do next. I want someone on my shoulder to tell
me!!!

-=-=-=-=-

We're all available to help, but listening to you kids might be a good
first step. <g>

-=-=-=-=-=-

I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old wired
up tired
kids to go to bed,

=-=-=-=-

No more three year olds. <g> But an active day outside helps many. A
warm drink, dimmed lights, soothing music, snuggling with mom are all
at the top of the list.

Also changing your goal from "getting wired up tired kids to go to bed"
to "making the environment peaceful and restful and soothing" might be
better. Change the focus.

-=-=-=-=-=-

I want to know what mealtimes look like,

-=-=-=-

Different on different days. Some meals at the kitchen table. Some in
the den around the coffee table. Some in our own rooms in bed. Lots of
snacking. Often on the porch or deck in nice weather. Occasional formal
dining rooms meals.

Often it depends on the meal being served. Tacos are better at the
table. <g> Soup and bread are common around the coffee table. Guests
are almost always served at one of the tables. <G>

Ben gets in between 6:00 and 6:15, so I try to have supper ready at
6:30. Everyone likes supper together at the kitchen table, but we
sometimes carry it to the den if there's a board game to play or a
movie to watch together. But breakfast and lunch are almost always
looser---with folks up and hungry at different times.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I want to know how
you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have somewhere you
have to be,

-=-=-=-=-=-

I just pack the car with coats and sweatshirts. They can grab what they
need. I don't "have to get them to put their coats on" because I know
they won't *choose* to be cold. They'll dress properly because they
like to be comfortable. Don't you? <g>

-=-=-=-=-=-

I just feel so out of my element and like letting it all flow is a
little scary
and I feel powerless and out of control in my own house letting the
girls decide
so much for themselves.

-=-=-=-=

Yeah---but exactly how can you decide *for* them? Do you know how they
feel? My mother's *always* cold. 79 degrees is "a little chilly." <G>
Both of my boys like it slightly cooler than I do. But if I let them
run around outside in the snow (which NEVER happens, but it DID snow
last week in Columbia, SC---while we were in Florida!) with bare feet,
I know they will be inside shortly for a warm bath and hot chocolate.
And the next time they go out, they'll put TWO pairs of socks on under
their shoes. <G> They're learning how the world works. My telling them
how to deal with it will only delay their learning. I *can* suggest and
offer---and, more importantly, be *prepared* for their
not-so-well-thought-out decisions so that they aren't uncomfortable or
in trouble. But I'm not comfortable deciding *for* them. The neat thing
is that the have learned to trust my judgment and believe me when I say
that they will probably be happier with shoes and socks in the snow. <G>

That's what I'm after: their trust in me.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


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Jodi Bezzola

Thanks so much Ren, I always love to hear what you have to say - you know, wisdom, experience and all that for us newbies :o). I look forward to hearing more when you have time!
Jodi

Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
~~or Ren's house, just to
get a feel for what the days are like. I still have this picture of kids
running amok with no order whatsoever and the parents going nuts, but
that's so different that what I'm hearing.~~

Oh, there are moments..believe me.;) The unschooling life certainly
doesn't guarantee calm and bliss around every corner, but I can't
imagine living any other way now. It's a great recipe for healthy,
happy relationships but even within those there are bumps and rough
moments.

I will answer more in depth when I have more time. I'd like to address
more of your concerns. Right now, I have two kids waiting for me to
snuggle to sleep with them (yes, they are saying "c'mon, let's go to
BED") and I work tomorrow so I certainly should listen to them.;)

G'night.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






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mimiphilomena

<<I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old
wired up tired kids to go to bed>>


I am totally new to the concept of unschooling, well- i have always
heard of it but never really studied it before (is that an oxymoron?),
but I am not at all new to 3 year olds!

Here are some ideas- when the child is wired up, and you are ready for
his or her bedtime....
First, I adjust MY energy to a great inner calm- a very relaxed state,
almost hushed, soft voice, peaceful smile- sort of a walking
meditation. I can be playful with the child and still stay within this
calm state. The wired child in my house needs to be allowed to go with
her wired state for a bit- I let her jump or do somersaults on the
bed, dance party, whatever, while at the same time getting pjs,
talking about bedtime, etc, but with a smile and a feeling of approval
of her energy state, which is so different than mine. We inadvertently
started a bedtime tradition in which one of us says, "mommy (or
anyone), guess what?" mommy (or whomever) replies, of course, "what?"
and then the first person runs and jumps onto the bed in a fancy or
funny way. After about 10 or 20 of these, and laughing together, we
can hug, tickle, and I might start to rub her back. Throughout the
process, I might be mentioning how tired I am, and how it's really
time to snuggle in bed, etc. (softly, and with a dreamy smile and a
sigh) and on purpose yawning every now and then. Then, eventually, I
might say, "you pick out a book, or I will pick one out in 10, 9, 8,..."
This all occurs on our great big california king sized bed. I don't
know if this works for you to put your child to bed in YOUR bed, but
it could just as easily happen in the child's bedroom- just that our
little shares a room with a sis 9 years older, so that is her
territory at bedtime. Some people light a candle, but I am never that
together. Some TELL a story in a dreamy bedtime voice, but again, I am
never so together as to memorize a story. We might play a short card
game in bed or just read stories. We use non foaming, non flouride
toothpaste (no spitting required), so brushing and flossing teeth
happens in bed, right before story. I read a story and maybe rub her
back a bit, and she is out.

The important thing with little children is that they internally
respond to your inner state. You must come to bedtime with a great
inner calm and feeling of almost magic, like a wizard or fairy princess.

My husband doesn't get this. With great energy he loudly repeats over
and over, Come on- it's time for bed! let's get you into bed! get your
pajamas on! brush your teeth! come on now! etc etc. More stimulating
than calming. He reads a whole pile of stories, once he can finally
get her to hold still- trying to "read her to sleep", and after about
10 he often falls asleep with her still awake, and after 3 or 4 times
the length of time it takes me to lull her to sleep.

Sorry this turned out so long, hope it helps-
Mary

rebecca de

Just jumping in here not really saying anything helpful .... Wow 7 kids!! Most of the time I love have my childrens friends around -- the more the merrier (for the most part) however all the time might be a different story. My 2 boys seem like a lot sometime1!! your amazing!

Melissa Gray <autismhelp@...> wrote: I have seven kids, ages 12, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4 and 2. So our routine
probably looks a lot different than others...but it seems to me that
every unschooler is a lot different that others, so I don't know how
helpful THAT was. Sorry.

We do try to make sure that late evening are calmer in our house,
because there are so many of us that it's just respectful to honor
the wishes of the little people. Avari is two, and she will be
exhausted and if someone is still movin' and groovin' it's hard for
her to sleep. So I asked the older kids for two hours every evening
where we just chill. They were happy to oblige (yeah, because
everyone gets private time with the littles asleep!) So we usually
have baths or wash our hands and face with lavender water, put on
jammies, brush teeth. We have piles of our favorite books on the
floor right next to the beds, and we do a traveling story time. We
usually start off in the boys room, with everyone crowded around I
Spy books, and sometimes How it Works. Then we head downstairs to the
girls room to do her little Maisy and Blue's Clues stories. We
snuggle and kiss, and about half of the time lay down with her until
she's asleep. Sam and Dan are very understanding that I snuggle with
them a little bit, then head downstairs to snuggle the girls, then
bounce around. Avari and Breanna, I travel back and forth, and
usually while I'm checking on the other one, kissing and snuggling,
the other starts dozing. So I wake them for one last kiss and sweet
dreams, and they go to sleep.

Mealtimes, I make one big meal each for breakfast lunch and dinner.
They eat what they want, but I usually only make stuff most people
like. Anyone who doesn't like it can reheat leftovers from another
night or make ramen or something. We usually do eat together, but the
older kids will be running in and out because they are involved in a
craft or show. There's usually at least one person reading at the
table. They usually WANT to all be together. But if they don't want
to eat, they can always come in later and get something. We do
always have a snack tray out, after about four pm if they come in
I'll remind them that dinner is in two hours, this is what we're
having, so that they are making educated choices about if they want
to fill up or not.

Coats? We have weather check. It's just something we've done since
our oldest was little. I always hated my mom saying 'get a coat!'
when I wasn't cold. Old people get cold faster, that's just a
fact ;-) Okay, maybe not, but I do know that my kids feel temperature
differently than I do. So, we have weather checks. They know who
feels like them, so if Emily says it's good for long sleeve t-shirts
and no coat, Rachel can wear shortsleeves and Sam will want a sweat
shirt, etc etc. I always offer a coat to the littles, and usually we
have spares in the truck. JIC. They just learn. At this point, the
littles will holler "I'm doin the weather check!!!!!" so it's working
out well, everyone running around in their various states of undress
laughing about being cold.

I like what someone else said. That when you are first starting that
you start by letting go of the little stuff. Say yes more often. When
that succeeds, you'll see that it really does work. And then you'll
be happy with letting go of more. Three seems like very young, I
know, but Dan was almost three when we started unschooling, and he
was the first child I ever had to said to me "Momma, I tired, I get
in bed now."
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma

>
> In a message dated 1/19/2008 9:55:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jodibezzola@... writes:
>
> I want to know about how other unschoolers get their 3 year old
> wired up
> tired kids to go to bed, I want to know what mealtimes look like, I
> want to know
> how you get them to put their coats on, etc. when you have
> somewhere you
> have to be, I just feel so out of my element and like letting it
> all flow is a
> little scary and I feel powerless and out of control in my own
> house letting
> the girls decide so much for themselves.
>
>
>
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---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Gray

Teehee....it's easier than you imagine. Once you hit four, it's no
different, and it's easier because kids always have someone to play
with.

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma




On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:32 AM, rebecca de wrote:

> Just jumping in here not really saying anything helpful .... Wow 7
> kids!! Most of the time I love have my childrens friends around --
> the more the merrier (for the most part) however all the time might
> be a different story. My 2 boys seem like a lot sometime1!! your
> amazing!
>
>
>



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