Flemming Academy

Today my son had chosen to watch Harry Potter (1 and 2) and to play some
educational games (per my prompting when he was playing other types of
games) on the computer. I don't know it is because of me being tired or me
feeling guilty because I am tired, but I am having those, "is my child
learning anything" thoughts.

He keeps telling me that it is a take it easy day and that he just wants to
relax. I am fighting the urge to have him sit down and do some math or
practice his handwriting. Does this sound at all familiar to anyone? Anyone?

AL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jane doe

--- Flemming Academy <academy@...> wrote:
> He keeps telling me that it is a take it easy day
> and that he just wants to
> relax. I am fighting the urge to have him sit down
> and do some math or
> practice his handwriting. Does this sound at all
> familiar to anyone? Anyone?

We have stop everything and watch Cary Grant days. You
would be surprised what they've learned from the old
movies we love to watch. Morals, history, science (or
lack thereof). I clearly remember my Sarah, then 3
arguing with someone that it was NOT an optopus but a
squid. Hmmm, too much Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea?
Hw may not have mastered his handwriting but Harry
Potter is very moralistic- right from wrong- value of
friendship and working together oriented. Maybe you
could do some Harry Potter experiments?
ELISA
ELISA

We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone

We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa


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-----Original Message-----
From: Flemming Academy <academy@...>\

Today my son had chosen to watch Harry Potter (1 and 2) and to play some
educational games (per my prompting when he was playing other types of
games) on the computer. I don't know it is because of me being tired or
me
feeling guilty because I am tired, but I am having those, "is my child
learning anything" thoughts.

-=-=-=-=-

First: why is Harry Potter not considered by you to be educational?

Second: can you define what makes one computer game educational and
another not?

-=-=-=-=-

He keeps telling me that it is a take it easy day and that he just
wants to
relax.

-=-=-=-=

Don't you have days like this?

How many "school days" are required by your state?

Most states require 180 days. If your state is typical, your son should
be allowed 185! days to learn/do absolutely nothing. (He won't, but
technically, from a *school* standpoint, he doesn't have to!)

-=-=-=-=--

I am fighting the urge to have him sit down and do some math or
practice his handwriting.

-=-=-=

How much math and handwriting does he watch you do on a daily basis? I
certainly wouldn't require more from him than you are willing to do
yourself.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Does this sound at all familiar to anyone? Anyone?

-=-=-=-

Wellll....it's not as if we haven't heard this before. <BWG>

Have you thought of renting Ferris Bueller's Day Off? <G> Anyone?
Anyone?

What does *real learning* look like? Classrooms and lectures and flash
cards and essays? Or baseball games and museums and fine dining and
Ferraris?

What is his history? School? school-at-home?

Although we are ALL learning every day, very little of it looks like
school.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

carenkh

One thing I've come to know through unschooling is that learning is
occurring, no matter what it looks like on the outside. I had to
completely DROP the idea that something had to look schoolish to be
valuable. They are picking up so much, all the time, through what they
WANT to do.

TRUST that learning is occurring. I know it can be a big leap when
you're coming from a schoolish background, but it IS happening, and
the sooner you can drop the guilt and manipulation, the more freely it
will happen, and the happier both you and your child will be.

When we first started unschooling, folks said my son will let me know
what he wanted to learn. I honestly thought it was going to look like
him walking up to me, saying, "I'd like to learn XYZ, Mom." Never mind
that he's never called me Mom. But it NEVER did, it NEVER looked like
that. Even when I asked, "What would you like to learn?" Yes, I'm
blushing as I type that. Oh, those days of deschooling!

What it looked like was him playing Ty the Tasmanian Tiger on the
GameCube obsessively, and finding funny websites, and taking walks and
swinging and helping me make scrambled eggs. It looked like life. And
I can honestly say, 8 years later, that he is learning absolutely
*everything* he needs to learn. From life. It's not labeled
educational, 'cause usually what that label means is, it's pushing a
schooled agenda about what's valuable. Is the alphabet valuable?
Certainly. Math? Yup. But what's even MORE valuable is trusting that
he is getting everything he needs by doing what he loves. And he is
learning that what he loves is valuable, that WHO HE IS is valued.

A few weeks ago, we were walking the dog. He was chatting away the
entire time about how the universe was formed, and was comparing the
varying theories, and how some of them made sense to him, but others
didn't. I know for a fact he has never read a book on theories about
the origin of the universe. I don't believe he has ever googled it, or
spent time on websites devoted to that. What he has done is read
magazines, play videogames, watch movies, read manga, chat with his
online buddies, watch TV, hang out with his friends. Because he was
interested in learning about how the universe was formed, he picked
out those pieces of the articles, or conversations, or movies. I
doubt, if asked, he would have said he was doing that, because I
believe it was not a conscious activity. But a piece of information
here, a bit there, something someone said here -- and it came together
for him. In his own way, in his own time. And none of the magazines,
games, etc. were *about* the origins of the universe. They were fun.

I want to tell you to please go burn everything labeled "educational"
in your home, but it may be your son finds some of it valuable or fun.
Let go - the sooner the better. It will be OK. It will be better than OK.

peace,
Caren

Flemming Academy

You know, it must have been because I was tired. Because I was usually can
see what you have pointed out. Thank you. Right now I have both the boys
home because I have to go to school all day on Saturday and Sunday to make
up for missing some days and they are working on how work on their problems
without fighting.

Being a creative person, I'm and artist, I can usually pick something out as
a learning lesson, but when I have only had 4 hours or less of sleep, and I
have a test to study for...well things kinda go down hill. I really
appreciate your answer.

Al

On 1/3/08, jane doe <thebrucelisa1@...> wrote:
>
> --- Flemming Academy <academy@...<academy%40flemmingboys.us>>
> wrote:
> > He keeps telling me that it is a take it easy day
> > and that he just wants to
> > relax. I am fighting the urge to have him sit down
> > and do some math or
> > practice his handwriting. Does this sound at all
> > familiar to anyone? Anyone?
>
> We have stop everything and watch Cary Grant days. You
> would be surprised what they've learned from the old
> movies we love to watch. Morals, history, science (or
> lack thereof). I clearly remember my Sarah, then 3
> arguing with someone that it was NOT an optopus but a
> squid. Hmmm, too much Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea?
> Hw may not have mastered his handwriting but Harry
> Potter is very moralistic- right from wrong- value of
> friendship and working together oriented. Maybe you
> could do some Harry Potter experiments?
> ELISA
> ELISA
>
> We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone
>
> We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother
> Teresa
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Flemming Academy

Thanks, Caren.

Your post is very helpful as well. I have to say that the deschooling, at
least for me, is slightly more difficult than it was for my son. As for the
value he is learning of himself, I can attest to that. My son has changed
quite a bit in the fast few weeks. He used to be a very angry and defiant
child, now he laughs a lot easier and smiles more. He talks to me about
things that are not petty or about his recent fight with his brother. That
has been more than any school or institution has ever done. On that alone, I
keep reassuring myself this was the right thing to do. Also, knowing that my
child is an independent person, but with some insecurities and he was not,
for whatever reason out growing them, he is in a safe environment here at
home and he can express himself and try things without feeling like he is a
failure just because he did not catch on and do it right the first time.

Also, his mother, my ex, is a "professional educator" and loves to tout how
she is one. Her whole self-esteem is wrapped up in that title, so even
though I know that she is not as good as she thinks she is, especially in
what she has modeled at home in front of the kids, I am still pushing
through all that in my journey of getting to the other side. What has made
all this a little easier as well, besides the improvement in my child, is
the fact that I have always wondered to myself, why do I need to learn all
this stuff when I am not going to use a good bit of it on an every day basis
in my career? So, slowly I'm getting through. And, I did not make him do a
workbook, nor did I continue to stand over his shoulder and watch what game
he was playing on the computer. Or on his game cube, or DS. I could not do
that just because the gamer in my would not allow it. LOL!

AL

On 1/4/08, carenkh <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> One thing I've come to know through unschooling is that learning is
> occurring, no matter what it looks like on the outside. I had to
> completely DROP the idea that something had to look schoolish to be
> valuable. They are picking up so much, all the time, through what they
> WANT to do.
>
> TRUST that learning is occurring. I know it can be a big leap when
> you're coming from a schoolish background, but it IS happening, and
> the sooner you can drop the guilt and manipulation, the more freely it
> will happen, and the happier both you and your child will be.
>
> When we first started unschooling, folks said my son will let me know
> what he wanted to learn. I honestly thought it was going to look like
> him walking up to me, saying, "I'd like to learn XYZ, Mom." Never mind
> that he's never called me Mom. But it NEVER did, it NEVER looked like
> that. Even when I asked, "What would you like to learn?" Yes, I'm
> blushing as I type that. Oh, those days of deschooling!
>
> What it looked like was him playing Ty the Tasmanian Tiger on the
> GameCube obsessively, and finding funny websites, and taking walks and
> swinging and helping me make scrambled eggs. It looked like life. And
> I can honestly say, 8 years later, that he is learning absolutely
> *everything* he needs to learn. From life. It's not labeled
> educational, 'cause usually what that label means is, it's pushing a
> schooled agenda about what's valuable. Is the alphabet valuable?
> Certainly. Math? Yup. But what's even MORE valuable is trusting that
> he is getting everything he needs by doing what he loves. And he is
> learning that what he loves is valuable, that WHO HE IS is valued.
>
> A few weeks ago, we were walking the dog. He was chatting away the
> entire time about how the universe was formed, and was comparing the
> varying theories, and how some of them made sense to him, but others
> didn't. I know for a fact he has never read a book on theories about
> the origin of the universe. I don't believe he has ever googled it, or
> spent time on websites devoted to that. What he has done is read
> magazines, play videogames, watch movies, read manga, chat with his
> online buddies, watch TV, hang out with his friends. Because he was
> interested in learning about how the universe was formed, he picked
> out those pieces of the articles, or conversations, or movies. I
> doubt, if asked, he would have said he was doing that, because I
> believe it was not a conscious activity. But a piece of information
> here, a bit there, something someone said here -- and it came together
> for him. In his own way, in his own time. And none of the magazines,
> games, etc. were *about* the origins of the universe. They were fun.
>
> I want to tell you to please go burn everything labeled "educational"
> in your home, but it may be your son finds some of it valuable or fun.
> Let go - the sooner the better. It will be OK. It will be better than OK.
>
> peace,
> Caren
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Flemming Academy

I have to say that this response was very confrontational. I don't
understand why. Are you feeling a little insecure, as I was, just be reading
my post? I was reaching out for some insight; I did not receive any from
you. (Or at least this post.)

So, getting past the letters of what I said (totally dissecting every
phrase) and seeing the spirit of what I was saying, the hard time that I was
having was mostly because I was very tired myself. This group, or so I
thought, was to be the place that I could ask the types of questions that I
have asked and receive some helpful feedback. Maybe I wrongly assumed this?

As for my child watching me do math or handwriting, the entire time he was
watching his movies (which I love as well, again I was tired, and maybe a
little jealous) I was sitting at the dining room table (and he could see me
because my home has an open floor plan) and he was talking to me about the
movie, while I was studying and taking handwritten notes for my class that
evening. He as also watched me sit down and study and take notes for both of
my undergrad degrees and he watches me now as I study for my current
certification. I never ask my children to do anything that I would not do.

I have learned that sometimes it is better to read and then re-read before
posting my reply to someone on an internet group. I have also learned that
it is rarely necessary to pick apart everything that someone says. So, back
up a little, breath, unwind and don't take things so personally.

AL

On 1/4/08, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flemming Academy <academy@...<academy%40flemmingboys.us>
> >\
>
> Today my son had chosen to watch Harry Potter (1 and 2) and to play some
> educational games (per my prompting when he was playing other types of
> games) on the computer. I don't know it is because of me being tired or
> me
> feeling guilty because I am tired, but I am having those, "is my child
> learning anything" thoughts.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> First: why is Harry Potter not considered by you to be educational?
>
> Second: can you define what makes one computer game educational and
> another not?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> He keeps telling me that it is a take it easy day and that he just
> wants to
> relax.
>
> -=-=-=-=
>
> Don't you have days like this?
>
> How many "school days" are required by your state?
>
> Most states require 180 days. If your state is typical, your son should
> be allowed 185! days to learn/do absolutely nothing. (He won't, but
> technically, from a *school* standpoint, he doesn't have to!)
>
> -=-=-=-=--
>
> I am fighting the urge to have him sit down and do some math or
> practice his handwriting.
>
> -=-=-=
>
> How much math and handwriting does he watch you do on a daily basis? I
> certainly wouldn't require more from him than you are willing to do
> yourself.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Does this sound at all familiar to anyone? Anyone?
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Wellll....it's not as if we haven't heard this before. <BWG>
>
> Have you thought of renting Ferris Bueller's Day Off? <G> Anyone?
> Anyone?
>
> What does *real learning* look like? Classrooms and lectures and flash
> cards and essays? Or baseball games and museums and fine dining and
> Ferraris?
>
> What is his history? School? school-at-home?
>
> Although we are ALL learning every day, very little of it looks like
> school.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
> __________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Flemming Academy <academy@...>

What has made
all this a little easier as well, besides the improvement in my child,
is
the fact that I have always wondered to myself, why do I need to learn
all
this stuff when I am not going to use a good bit of it on an every day
basis
in my career?

-=-=-=-=-

Sandra Dodd, former teacher and now unschooling mom
(www.sandradodd.com), used to tell her students this when they asked
why they needed to learn something:

"To get the jokes." <BWG>

There are a lot of things forced on children in school that will really
have no bearing on their adult lives. But some things we learned can
make "joke-getting" easier.

One of my favorites:
Pi R 2
(*sounds* better than typed out---say it aloud: "Pie Are Square")

"No, Pie are *round*. Cobbler are square." <g>

As much as I dislike Shakespeare (over-zealous English teacher), having
read him affords me many a laugh at his (or is that *my*??) expense.

"Out, Out Damned spot!" (while treating laundry)
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio!" (while putting the chicken
carcass into the soup pot)
"To beat or not to beat" (as Cameron walks out to drum <g>)

Yeah, yeah---some are petty weak! <G> Welcome to my corny world! <G>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

Ren Allen

~~I can usually pick something out as
a learning lesson~~

There is no need to "pick out" a learning lesson. Learning is
everywhere, all the time. Everything that a person is interested in is
learning, from Spongebob to rockets, spaghetti and beyond!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Lisa

I think we all have those moments (they get more fleeting and even
make you chuckle after a few years!) when we worry a bit about
whether our kids will be ready for whatever life brings them in the
future. For me it's that worry that when they express an interest in
something they hadn't mentioned before and I have a moment of panic in
wondering if "THAT" is going to be their calling and unless I
immediately check out 10 library books, subscribe to 3 magazines and
find a mentor they are going to be behind in the game! I want to
be supportive of their interests but I have to really fight the urge
to saturate their environment with every resource on a topic they may
mention ever so casually! My husband and I are both "hoarders" of
information in that when something strikes us we saturate ourselves in
that topic... two of our kids are like that and two are not. I
remember one of them wailing once after asking her dad a question
about something and having him go on and on for what seemed like
forever "I just wanted to know such and such!! I don't need a PhD in
it!"

I think also for alot of us that attended school and were parented in
"typical" 60's and 70's fashion that even though our hearts know we
are doing the right thing for our kids and that every moment they are
learning it's really stepping out of our comfort zone!

I just read a book titled "Merle's Door Lessons from a Freethinking
Dog" by Ted Kerasote.... just the best book I have read all year I
think! Basically this fellow finds a stray dog while camping and
adopts him ... since the dog has always had freedom it's quite a
journey for Ted to figure out how to exist with this dog. Basically
an unschooling dog! So many of the things really rang true with me
as they relate to all relationships between people. I am now
reading a rather different book that caught my eye at the library by
Jane Isay titled "Walking on Eggshells Navigating the Delicate
Relationship Between Adult Children and Parents" The premise of this
book is that basically we are the first generation of children who
were parented in a more permissive time than our parents who were
raised by WWII veterans and depression era folks. It's really
interesting in that it gives a perspective of how parents interact
with their adult children and why there are so many issues (we all
write about that sort of thing here all the time!). Anyway that's my
book report for this week! HA!

Anyway to get back to the topic... you probably are tired and grumpy
and I think we return to our default setting on those days and that is
to play the old tapes we have had since childhood that learning looks
a certain way to be valuable and the fear that someone will disapprove
of what we are doing (which is funny given how little most of us care
about that sort of thing on a good day!)
Take a deep breath and know that he is learning and will be fine and
anything he finds out he needs to know to be successful in something
he is passionate about he will also be passionate about learning in a
very short period of time when it's meaningful to him!
Lisa Blocker

diana jenner

>
> Anyway to get back to the topic... you probably are tired and grumpy
> and I think we return to our default setting on those days and that is
> to play the old tapes we have had since childhood that learning looks
> a certain way to be valuable and the fear that someone will disapprove
> of what we are doing (which is funny given how little most of us care
> about that sort of thing on a good day!)
> Take a deep breath and know that he is learning and will be fine and
> anything he finds out he needs to know to be successful in something
> he is passionate about he will also be passionate about learning in a
> very short period of time when it's meaningful to him!
>
>
>
>


These words sparked a great memory for me!
There is a tape. You don't need it to be a tape, for me it was an actual
cassette tape called Peaceful Parenting. Changed My Life. Often, I *choose*
this tape to play (sometimes over the other one, honestly) and *choose* to
listen to it. There is great wisdom here. Certainly, read the page if you'd
like :) At the very bottom is a button you can push to listen to Sandra and
Richard, two of my favorite Mind Voices:
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]