Jennifer

I thought it would be interesting to hear, if you're
willing to share it, how you got to unschooling,
especially if you used to have children in school.

I was blessed to discover unschooling a few years ago
when my oldest child was only six months old. I
honestly don't know exactly how I got there ...

Back when I was a teacher, and before I had kids, I
saw How Children Fail by John Holt at the bookstore
and read the whole thing. I had no idea that "John
Holt" was anybody, and I certainly had no idea he was
a name in the homeschool community.

I always thought homeschoolers were annoying -- I
pictured them as teacher-wanna-be's who were keeping
their kids out of school so they wouldn't hear about
the Big Bad Theory of Evolution.

When my daughter was a baby, there a cover story on
Time magazine about homeschooling. It intrigued me ...
it sounded like these people were actually doing
Interesting Things, and not just sitting at the table
having lessons with mom.

I started to get curious: What WERE these people
doing, really?

Then I'm not sure what happened next, but I guess I
posted something somewhere, and got a couple e-mails
from Ren telling me I would love unschooling.com. And
it all started from there.

Anyway, how did you guys first discover it? Did it
resonate with you right away, or sound crazy at first?
What did your spouse think? How long did it take you
to start once you heard about it?

Jenny

Visit me and my family at my blog!

http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/


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Debra Rossing

Let's see...where to start without getting too verbose...

Okay, let's just say that about 10 years ago, two of DH's 3 sisters were
having major problems with school. We were away in a whole other state
but MIL called and asked us to help her find out what her options were
(parenthetical note, DH's family order might help: DH is oldest, SIL1 2
yrs younger than DH, SIL2 15 yrs younger than DH, SIL3 17 yrs younger
than DH so 2 & 3 were still middle school/high school age when we had
already been married for a couple years). We found that she could easily
and legally pull them out of school and "homeschool" - in CT it's really
simple, a letter of withdrawal and that's it for paperwork. So, she did.
In the process, however, DH and I got to talking about the idea of
"homeschooling" and I spent time browsing the Internet. I stumbled upon
unschooling.com and started discussing the ideas posted with DH. I also
posted some and got some ideas pretty uh "firmly" challenged and I'd go
away fuming only to continue pondering the ideas and talking with DH.
Mind you, we had no kids at the time so it was all pretty theoretical.
But, I'd keep going back and we kept talking and pondering. Then I found
out that DS was on the way. According to MIL, "the" call went something
like "Hi. Guess what? I'm pregnant and we're planning to homeschool."
LOL Not sure that it was -quite- like that but probably not far off
since we were set on unschooling by the time DS was born.

But, still, the expansion of the idea into other areas took more time.
"schoolwise" it connected easily - even more easily for DH than for me
because I *loved* school, my preferred learning style just fits well
with typical schools plus it was way back before the high pressure
testing stuff. Teachers apparently had lots more leeway. For example,
when I was in second grade, the school had "Parent's Day" where parents
could come in and sit in the back of the classroom and observe for as
long as they wanted - 15 minutes to all day, whatever. My mom sat in my
class and was absolutely stunned to watch me getting up and roaming
around the room, doing this and that, WHILE the teacher was up front
delivering a lesson to my classmates. Afterward, she went up and asked
the teacher about it, thinking there was some problem. Nope, the teacher
explained that I *already* understood that material so I was doing some
other things she had arranged for me to do. Not likely to see that
happening nowadays. For DH, however, school was one of those things to
just get through - once he got a concept (which he did quickly most
times), he wanted to move on, not repeat it three times to make sure
everyone else caught on. So, he'd get bored and tune out and basically
just tolerate it the way you tolerate a long car ride - there'd be
occasional interesting bits but the rest was mostly mundane. For him,
the idea of letting our son have the freedom to explore when and what
and how was *exactly* what he had wished for (and what MIL wishes she
knew about back when).

Things like freedom in regard to food connected more easily because I
was already nursing on demand. It made sense to simply feed DS when and
what he wanted even when he moved on to solid foods. We still get
comments (he's 9 now) on "how did we get him to eat x?" or "wow he's got
an amazing range of foods" (usually that ones after he gets into a
detailed discussion of which types of sushi and sashimi he enjoys) as
well as comments on "why isn't he stuffing himself with cookies and
candies?" while other parents are trying to contain their own kids.

Bedtimes took a little longer but we pondered and discussed and by the
time DS was about 5, we just said Yes when he wanted to stay up to watch
something (I think it was a 4 episode 'block' of a favorite-at-the-time
cartoon), with a light reminder to turn off the TV and lights on the way
up to bed, and that we'd still probably be awake when it was over. He
spent a couple days 'testing' this new thing and then decided that he
preferred coming up to snuggle with Mommy while Mommy was still a bit
awake (I WOH fulltime so I'm the only one with a 'bedtime' - I need to
be in bed, heading toward sleep, by about 10 pm, though I do
occasionally stay awake until 11). Now, at 9, he'll sometimes come
snuggle for a while as I fall asleep, then head to his room to watch TV
for a bit if he's not sleepy. He may stay in his room or he might come
back into our bed once he's sleepy. It's really variable right now - I
think he's starting to feel a bit squished now that he's getting bigger
(I usually end up in the middle between him and DH - that's a squash for
sure but it's nice and toasty in the winter).

One thing that really took some work was the idea of "discipline" -
nothing wrong with one open handed swat to the diapered bottom, right?
Uh well actually... That ended by the time DS was about 3 because he
figured it was "fair" that if we swatted him that he could swat us. That
required a quick re-thinking and it dawned on us "Duh! We're hitting him
and at the same time telling him not to hit. Talk about mixed messages!"
What we learned pretty quickly is that DS has very little tolerance for
arbitrarily drawn divisions between what adults can do and what kids can
do. For instance, he's fine that kids can't drive cars on the highway -
that's for adults (and older teens) and it makes sense to him - he can't
see over the steering wheel so it would be dangerous. On the other hand,
how come adults can use any "swear" words they want but kids get gasped
at, at minimum, if they use the exact same words. Or, why can adults
stay up as late as they want but kids (typically speaking) have enforced
bedtimes, even though adults need to get up just as early. So, whatever
words DS hears us say, he is free to say (which makes for a strong
incentive to ONLY use words we'd be comfortable with DS saying to his
grandparents lol).

It really does take more effort to expand unschooling ideas into the
rest of life and we're still working our way through it as we reach new
challenges and adventures but it is so worth it.

Deb

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trektheory

Although some might say I don't unschool (I definitely am not a
radical unschooler) we started out homeschooling with an attempt to
find areas of interest for my ds. I asked him what HE would like to
learn. His response, "Anything I don't already know." Then added,
"If you find it interesting, I will, too." (Smart kid!) He did want
to learn algebra, so with math, we started there.

We had been learning history sequentially, and somewhere around the
Renaissance, he asked, "When we get a chance, can we learn about
WWII?" No time like the present, so we switched gears immediately,
went to the library and got WWII for Dummies. It was so cool reading
the material and comparing it to Star Trek: Deep Space 9 (in the later
part of the series with the Dominion.) And then, when we got to the
Battle of Stalingrad -- he leaped up and said, "That's exactly how it
plays out in the game!" (His interest was spurred from playing
Battlefield 1942 on the computer.)

Being relaxed in our approach has, imo, been wonderful for him -- so
much free time to pursue his varied interests. He crochets (Grandma
taught him that - I don't crochet!), makes chainmaille, makes (and
plays, of course) computer games, and a few other odd and end things.

And, although it wasn't something I particularly wanted, we are
officially finishing up homeschooling a year early -- he wants to be a
full-time college student next year. (I used to joke about holding
him back a year to get more time.) I know someone who has a son who
would like to do that -- but she and her dh don't feel he has met all
of their requirements to graduate from their homeschool! I'm merely
allowing my ds to follow his interests, which lead him to college.
Locally... fortunately, my desire to keep him close to home works out
okay. He told me that the local university fits his needs -- it has
the course work he needs, is close to home, and relatively inexpensive.

Reading Gatto and Holt, obviously, are helpful in developing a more
relaxed mindset; at least, they were for me. Also, Alfie Kohn's
Punished By Rewards was VERY enlightening to me.

I really really really wish I had started homeschooling from the
beginning, though. We had a lot of damage to work through from
traditional schooling in elementary.

BTW, one of the reasons I didn't hs at all in the beginning is that I
had this stereotype of religious isolationists... not a group I would
fit it with, to say the least! But the great thing is, now that I hs,
I have a widely diverse group of friends!

I think, had I started out hsing, it would have been MUCH easier to do
more child-led approach than starting later. My ds was more or less
self-propelled on learning -- something that private school hindered
(and public school was worse on!)

Linda


--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...> wrote:
>
> I thought it would be interesting to hear, if you're
> willing to share it, how you got to unschooling,
> especially if you used to have children in school.
>

>
> Anyway, how did you guys first discover it? Did it
> resonate with you right away, or sound crazy at first?
> What did your spouse think? How long did it take you
> to start once you heard about it?
>
> Jenny
>
> Visit me and my family at my blog!
>
> http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Amanda Horein

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Anyway, how did you guys first discover it? Did it
resonate with you right away, or sound crazy at first?
What did your spouse think? How long did it take you
to start once you heard about it?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Sorry, I am way behind on my email, but wanted to share my story.
We first discovered unschooling 3 years ago and I loved the concept.
I just couldn't let go of the control yet (and I didn't really think I
was being very controling).

My spouse was on board, I think, but it feels like people are always
agreeing with me. That is probably why I love this board (and
AlwaysLearning) because you guys DON'T agree with me. You make me
think and question what I am doing and seek out a better way. Thank
you so much for that.

Well, we learned about it 3 years ago, but I only REALLY put the
"radical" into effect most recently (like only a few months ago), but
"academically" we have really always been unschooling except when my
oldest went to 1/2 of a year of preschool and 3 weeks of Kindergarten
(MIL pressure there).

--
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/

Melissa

I always wanted to homeschool, and yes, I was one of those annoying teacher-wanna-be.
Not because I wanted to be king of the castle, but just because I've always loved seeing the
flash of understanding in kids eyes, I started tutoring when i was in sixth grade. Dh was
entirely against it though, he grew up very rural (think little house on the prairie) and was
worried about tada! Socialization. Anyway, when our oldest was five, our second was
diagnosied with severe autism, and we were pressed to put her in special ed preschool. I
agreed with everyone when they said that she needed someone trained to deal with special
needs. Since she was going to school, we might as well send the oldest. I was the typical
PTA mom, there every day, volunteering everywhere, and my little ones practically grew up
in the school. Two years later, my oldest was diagnosed with aspergers, and we struggled
to get the individualized program that every kid deserves.

Two years later, Emily started preK, and then kindergarten, and Rachel went to preK the
year Emily was in kindie. Sam hit three and we took him to school for the free speech
therapy (he has dysarthria) In that year, we reached the pinnacle of struggles with Josh and
Bre, and Emily and Rachel both disliked their classes. I figured out that schools and
teachers very rarely know how to teach a child with differences, and even more amazing,
they didn't know how to teach children that were not that different. They knew how to
teach classrooms, not children. The kids loved being with friends, but Emily was way
ahead of what the school would be willing to teach, and Rachel was irritated with how they
kept telling her how to do her work ;-)

So we pulled them out two weeks before school let out. We started a strict school at home,
which everyone really loved. It was like a preschool at home. At the end of the summer,
however, i was put on bedrest with Avari and we did what we could to move the program
up to my room. Things started to slide, and we stopped doing anything and to my
surprise, the kids were still learning. Even better, they OWNED their knowledge and were
learning even faster than before.

After Avari was born, we went to the radical unschooling. It began naturally enough, she's
the youngest of seven and I just couldn't maintain all that control and struggle. SO..I didn't
search out and find unschooling, it found me. But what I do now is find the information
and support that I need to mindfully grow into unschooling with my children. I love it and
wouldn't choose anything different.

Melissa, in Ok


--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...> wrote:
>
> I thought it would be interesting to hear, if you're
> willing to share it, how you got to unschooling,
> especially if you used to have children in school.

juillet727

--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...> wrote:
>
> I thought it would be interesting to hear, if you're
> willing to share it, how you got to unschooling,
> especially if you used to have children in school.
*************

Hi--well, I first heard of unschooling thru 2 leaders at the local La
Leche League meeting. They both had kids and were homeschooling, but
really unschooling, I just didn't know the word for it.

I can remember a few distinct times where I cocked my head like the
RCA dog at a different idea that I'd never heard of. One was when I
was talking to one of the LLL leaders about meeting a child's needs
and letting go of our assumptions about what that really is and she
said, "yeah, the other day dd asked to nurse under the kitchen table."
So I asked," So what'd you do?" And she goes, "We did." And that was
the first time I thought, "Huh. I guess there's really no reason not
to meet that need." And it was so funny because I was all about
attachment parenting and meeting my child's needs, but because my son
was just an infant, my thinking didn't stretch that far. It's like I
hadn't thought about meeting a need of my son's that was sort of
whim-ful in my eyes (to make up a word). That one exchange really
opened up my mind as to how I could meet my son's needs as he grew
into toddlerhood. And I started having memories of my own young life
and remembering different times where having my needs met would have
made things so much fricken easier! Not that I hadn't thought of
meeting needs before, but it was becoming tangible--starting to gel,
you know?

Another time I remember cocking my head like the RCA dog is when I
started looking into these lists, my son was in kindergarten and I
hated it, he liked it sometimes, but it just felt so wrong to me. But
I remember one post exchange on one of the unschooling lists where I
said something about the idea of a "sugar bombed kid" or a kid all
hyper from being on video games--I was talking about the idea of kids
getting hyper and spazzy when they eat sugar or play video games for
many many hours. I said it like it was really true. And Mary Gold made
a very casual comment about how she thought it was a myth. Literally,
think all she said was, "I think that's a myth." And once again, I was
sitting at my computer screen, head cocked, thinking, "Huh. Someone
else thinks that's a complete myth. Why do I think it's true? And what
would happen if I didn't think that?" And since I love being a
discoverer/scientist in my own life, I decided to do some of the
suggestions I had read and brought my son food&drink while he was
playing and really eased up on sugar (cake for breakfast anyone?) and
lo and behold! I did not have a "sugar-bombed" kid and my boy could
play video games for 12 hours and he didn't get all hyper! And I
realized that *I* can get tired of doing something after many, many
hours and it doesn't mean I need to not do it---why would I limit my
knitting or reading because I got tired of it one time? So I stopped
limiting those things with my son's interests. The food thing is
harder because of my own headtrip around food and my partner has his
own concerns that add to the issue. But I'm working on it. I've
learned tons here and other lists.

So, it took me until now to take my boy out of school--he just turned
8. My partner (his dad) is moving along this path, but just a little
slower than me because he doesn't read on these lists and elsewhere.
But he'll listen to principles and logic, and when I explain certain
unschooly things in that way, it makes sense to him. The thing now
that I'm realizing is how our society views certain ages and what
expected at those ages. My son is 8 and most of the time there's a
whole lot of false responsibility and disrespect that people do with
young people at that age. In my family I want to change that. And what
I mean by "false responsibility and disrespect" are things like: not
tying shoes when asked, but making the "make your own pizza" because
"this is how you do it". Does that make sense? It's usually little
things, but I see them as crucial to relationship building or not.

So, my family woke up and I want to get off the computer before doing
our dump run, but these are my thoughts... :) Thanks for asking the
question.
~~Juillet

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "juillet727"
<juillet727@...> wrote:

>One was when I
> was talking to one of the LLL leaders about meeting a child's needs
> and letting go of our assumptions about what that really is and she
> said, "yeah, the other day dd asked to nurse under the kitchen table."
> So I asked," So what'd you do?" And she goes, "We did." And that was
> the first time I thought, "Huh. I guess there's really no reason not
> to meet that need."


I just wanted to address this, as it is one of my pet peeves. There
is a difference between a need and a want or desire. The dd needed to
nurse, but wanted to nurse under the kitchen table. Not that it is a
bad thing to agree to do that -- just that it isn't a need. I'm all
for picking my battles (running into the street while a car is
barreling down isn't an option, no matter how much a child may WANT to
-- that's a battle worth picking. Nursing under the table, no big deal.)

Linda

carenkh

-=-There is a difference between a need and a want or desire.-=-


I honestly don't think we can say what is a need vs. want for another
person. It *looks* like a want to you - but you are not the little
girl, you don't know what she was *needing* at that time. (Cozy
feeling? Needing to know mama would listen to her, no matter how odd
it sounded?)

I do my best to say "yes" to as much as possible. Judging want vs.
need doesn't even enter into it. I want to meet their wants as well as
their needs... or find a way to have them met.

Caren

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> -=-There is a difference between a need and a want or desire.-=-
>


No there is really not- why should one be more valuable than another?

Aryeh Winter-Card

Hi All,

I am new to the group. I have been unschooling my four boys aged 8 1/2, 7, 4 and 1 1/2 more or less since the end of the last school year. (My 8 1/2 year old left school a few months before the end of the second grade - the two middle kids finished the school year in pre-school). I owe it all to my oldest, who never adapted himself to the school environment. When he was three, I got a call from the head of the nursery (a Montessori nursery, no less) that she was very concerned about my son. I came in and she proceeded to tell me that she said "Good morning, Yonah" and he replied "I'm not Yonah, I'm a parrot." I smiled and waited for her to tell me the part that concerned her. That was it. She said that they believe children should live in reality and not in fantasy and that when he talks about fantasy, I was to say to him, "That is fantasy and we only talk about reality." She also recommended he be assessed by a "professional". I thought she was nuts and moved him to a regular pre-school. In kindergarten, he cried about going, and begged me to take him with me to work, or pick him up in the middle of the day and take him to lunch (which I did as often as I could). One day (at age 5) he said to me "Do you know why I don't like school?" I said, "No. Why don't you like school?" He said "Becuase at school I can't make up the rules." (Gotta love him.) We moved to Israel in July of 2005, and he began grade 1 here. I went with him the first two weeks. After that he started failing to return to class after recess. He habitually sat with the school guard the whole day until the school bus came to take him home. The school transferred him to a more experienced teacher and recommended he see a psychologist. The more experienced teacher "made strides" with him, bribing him with candies to return to class after recess and bribing other students with candies if they assisted in getting him to class after recess. Yonah took the candies, came to class, but refused to participate and drew in his notebooks until the clock ran out on school and he could return home. I looked into other schools, particularly "democratic schools" (which are modeled after the Sudbury Valley school), but they were too far away and the commute was too long. One day a friend of mine asked why I didn't homeschool. The picture in my head of homeschooling was this awful picture of me and my son sitting at the kitchen table with tests and me grading his work - Yuch! My friend told me that most homeschoolers do not do school at home. Then it hit me, I could do a "democratic school" at home! I wanted him to finish out the year to make my life easier, (the legalities of homeschooling in Israel are complicated to say the least), but by April, he was refusing to go, getting "sick", "missing the school bus", and once went to the trouble of coming back from the bus stop with soiled pants so he would not have to go. That was the final straw for me and after that I didn't send him. (That's when the school recommended that I see a psychologist.) My second child was determined by the school board in my region to be in need of "special ed" because he was labeled ADHD and hypersensitive. I'll grant them the sensitive part, but he can focus perfectly well on anything that interests him. And he has a need to climb. (He says he is a monkey (Sorry honey, but that's fantasy and we only talk about - oh, have a banana.) I love unschooling! I can't imagine a better way to be. My oldest is exploring the wonderful world of cooking and baking (Help! We're full!). Ds (7) came up with a brilliant business idea yesterday that I think is seriously worth pursuing. My four year old navigates the web like a pro (he has made his own vision video using Windows movie maker), and the baby is thrilled to have his big brothers around. His latest word? "Guys!" He walks around the house yelling "Guys!". Last week they decided that we should have a picnic in the playground behind our street. As I lay on the picnic blanket at 11:30 a.m., soaking in the sunshine, watching as my four little guys climbed up the slide, swang on the swing, climbed to the top of the structures and picked pine cones, I thought to myself - "It doesn't get any better than this!"

Love,
Lisa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Buxcel

Hi Lisa!
I loved your story! Welcome to UB. Looks like you've found the grand gift
of Joy that unschooling brings! I have many moments like the one you
described at the end, lying in the sun, watching my 3 boys (8, 6, 3) run
free. The only way to live. Free.

Unschooling Rocks.

Basking in the Glow,
Karen
http://www.thewildtribe.blogspot.com


--
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know
peace."
Jimi Hendrix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

juillet727

I think I know what you mean about wants and needs, and I hear you
saying about the "nursing under the table=no big deal, but it's not a
need it's a want", BUT...
I think *how* we deal with wants or needs is what's important and the
label doesn't really matter. How we deal with our kids' wants and
needs is what builds a good relationship or not. Labeling it a want or
need and what to do about it is a personal viewpoint and seems to vary
with the kind of parenting a person is doing.
~~Juillet




--- In [email protected], "trektheory"
<trektheory@...> wrote:
>
>
> I just wanted to address this, as it is one of my pet peeves. There
> is a difference between a need and a want or desire. The dd needed to
> nurse, but wanted to nurse under the kitchen table. Not that it is a
> bad thing to agree to do that -- just that it isn't a need. I'm all
> for picking my battles (running into the street while a car is
> barreling down isn't an option, no matter how much a child may WANT to
> -- that's a battle worth picking. Nursing under the table, no big
deal.)
>
> Linda
>