healthunlimited1

I have been lurking around this list for a while. I have not posted because it's hard to
know where to begin while at the same time not turning my post into a book ... LOL This
is my 14th year of homeschooling. I have one son in college and I have one son who is
technically in 9th grade. Over th years I feel like we've done it all or at least tried. I've
dabbled in unschooling. When my oldest was in 9th grade we pretty much unschooled
that year. He refers to that year as the year we didn't do anything. Interestingly, that was
the year that he finally learned how to play guitar after trying a couple of times years
prior. His music is very important to him ... he is in a band and I love to hear the songs he
has written. We have not truly unschooled since that year.

Right now I'm just at a loss. My youngest son although in 9th grade does not read or write
well. He does improve each year but he is far from 9th grade material. You can imagine
how this affects everything. (By the way, he's never written a report or any kind of paper in
his life.) His math is less than desirable as well. He's got the basics down pretty well for
the most part be he's of the age where he should be doing algebra ... I don't think so!! I
realize that I have tried to fit a round peg in a square hole by making him do traditional
types of school work. As of two weeks ago I threw the curriculum out the window (a very
expensive lesson for mom!). Other than helping me out with things around the house and
with my business, he spends his time playing World of Warcraft (greatly responsible for
improving his reading skills amongst other things as he is a brilliant game player) and he
plays his drums...very well I might add and always on his own. I've never pushed it ...
that's his own baby. We have been playing a lot of board games as well since we threw
out the curriculum.

So what's the problem? Where do I begin!! I've been freaking out because I've got the
mind set of things counting towards graduation. And what about college?! I haven't been
able to relax and trust this process. I'm not even sure if it's the right thing. And God
forbid if someone asks him or I what he's doing in school. I think we both panick. If I
could feel confident in what we're doing I'm sure it would help him feel confident as well. I
go about my day wondering what the heck we're doing. Oh my gosh... and then I just die
when I hear my son announce to his friends "I didn't do anything today". Geez.... don't say
that I'll tell him. You let the wrong person hear that and we'll have the authorities
snooping around.

Well... this is a good start. Trust me... I could go on and on but I'll let it go at this. For
once in my homeschooling career I'd like to be confident in what we're doing and just
relax. I'm tired and burned out.... and it shows at home as my creativity across the board
is spent.

Shileen

Tequitia Andrews

Hang in there. I'm new to this unschooling process myself. My kids
are much younger, but I too cringe when I overhear them telling a
relative we didn't do anything. I feel the need to step in and
elaborate on the issue. But I do realize that we have to get out of
that mentality of what will others think. Homeschooling is not
traditional schooling as we know it. We have the freedoms to run it
pretty much any way we want, Thank God for that. We have to have
confidence in ourselves and our decisions for our family. We can't
allow others to dictate how to run our homes. So relax and let things
flow.

Tequitia

Zoa Conner

Shileen,

I usually lurk, but I am sometimes good at making people feel better. You
seems to need a hug -- so here ((())). I hope it helps!

Your son seems to see the whole school/learning thing as a failure on his
part. Maybe it would help to find the things he likes (drums obviously) and
encourage them. Celebrate what he can do and what feels good to him. I know
from personal experience that it is easy to look at a child¹s activities and
say ³he did not do what I wanted him to do today ³ but in your mind that
gets mutated into ³he did nothing². Don¹t let that happen. He does tons of
things every day. He is learning all the time. But maybe not the academic
stuff.

Then you might want to look together at why he has such a hard time with
those subjects you mention (reading, writing, math). Is it a confidence
issue? It his learning style different from the way he has been introduced
to those subjects? Is it a lack of motivation (finding books interesting to
him, having a good-to-him reason to write, etc.)?

I will leave you with another hug ((( ))) and encouragement to not worry so
much. It is his life and his learning. He will make of it what he wants. But
you can help him in his endeavors!

Zoa


On 11/1/07 2:28 AM, "healthunlimited1" <healthunlimited1@...> wrote:
> I have been lurking around this list for a while. I have not posted because
> it's hard to
> know where to begin while at the same time not turning my post into a book ...
> LOL This
> is my 14th year of homeschooling. I have one son in college and I have one
> son who is
> technically in 9th grade. Over th years I feel like we've done it all or at
> least tried. I've
> dabbled in unschooling. When my oldest was in 9th grade we pretty much
> unschooled
> that year. He refers to that year as the year we didn't do anything.
> Interestingly, that was
> the year that he finally learned how to play guitar after trying a couple of
> times years
> prior. His music is very important to him ... he is in a band and I love to
> hear the songs he
> has written. We have not truly unschooled since that year.
>
> Right now I'm just at a loss. My youngest son although in 9th grade does not
> read or write
> well. He does improve each year but he is far from 9th grade material. You
> can imagine
> how this affects everything. (By the way, he's never written a report or any
> kind of paper in
> his life.) His math is less than desirable as well. He's got the basics down
> pretty well for
> the most part be he's of the age where he should be doing algebra ... I don't
> think so!! I
> realize that I have tried to fit a round peg in a square hole by making him do
> traditional
> types of school work. As of two weeks ago I threw the curriculum out the
> window (a very
> expensive lesson for mom!). Other than helping me out with things around the
> house and
> with my business, he spends his time playing World of Warcraft (greatly
> responsible for
> improving his reading skills amongst other things as he is a brilliant game
> player) and he
> plays his drums...very well I might add and always on his own. I've never
> pushed it ...
> that's his own baby. We have been playing a lot of board games as well since
> we threw
> out the curriculum.
>
> So what's the problem? Where do I begin!! I've been freaking out because
> I've got the
> mind set of things counting towards graduation. And what about college?! I
> haven't been
> able to relax and trust this process. I'm not even sure if it's the right
> thing. And God
> forbid if someone asks him or I what he's doing in school. I think we both
> panick. If I
> could feel confident in what we're doing I'm sure it would help him feel
> confident as well. I
> go about my day wondering what the heck we're doing. Oh my gosh... and then I
> just die
> when I hear my son announce to his friends "I didn't do anything today".
> Geez.... don't say
> that I'll tell him. You let the wrong person hear that and we'll have the
> authorities
> snooping around.
>
> Well... this is a good start. Trust me... I could go on and on but I'll let
> it go at this. For
> once in my homeschooling career I'd like to be confident in what we're doing
> and just
> relax. I'm tired and burned out.... and it shows at home as my creativity
> across the board
> is spent.
>
> Shileen
> ----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Montessori Homeschooling Mother
zoaconner@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

I may be an odd one to respond, because, technically, I'm not an
unschooler (I view myself as relaxed eclectic) but here goes.

First, learning happens much better, deeper, even faster, if it is
backed by interest. We were cruising along, doing the sequential
history thing, somewhere maybe in the Renaissance (iirc), when ds
asked if, when we got a chance, could we please learn about WWII. (He
had been playing Battlefield 1942 on the computer.) Rather than tell
him to wait for it, we switched gears immediately, went to the
library, got WWII for Dummies (or Idiot's Guide to WWII -- I can't
remember which), and had a cool time learning about it. (As I had
never had it in school, we really were both learning, too!) We
discussed things, saw parallels between what we were reading and Star
Trek: Deep Space 9 (we were watching it, and were up to the parts with
the Dominion.) When we got to the battle of Stalingrad, he excitedly
said, "That's exactly how it plays out in the game!" Life was good!

Remember, too, that there is nothing fixed about WHEN a particular
subject needs to be learned. Nothing fixed that says he HAS to
graduate on such and such a day. Those are things that can be changed
up and down, as appropriate. What if he doesn't learn algebra until
he is 16? Will his world end? (I hope not, as I assume he lives in
the same one I do!)

He may find he learns these things better through concrete means, when
they come up in things he enjoys doing. From my observations, I think
a lot of teens (and especially boys) really like to have some
concrete, real-world connections, something that they are contributing
in a real way, not abstract paper pushing. (And this holds true for
academically-oriented kids, like my son.) He may need to see the real
use of it before he fully grasps it.

He may graduate with huge honkin' holes. That's okay. I graduated
from public school with huge honkin' holes, too (see the bit about
WWII -- that wasn't the only hole), and managed fine. The important
thing is that he knows how to fill those holes as he needs/wants to!

So, when those ugly fears raise their ugly heads, ask yourself, "What
harm is there if he doesn't get all these things by the age of 18?
Will I kick him out then? Will he be doomed to a destitute life?"
Odds are, no.

Linda

--- In [email protected], "healthunlimited1"
<healthunlimited1@...> wrote:
>
> I have been lurking around this list for a while. I have not posted
because it's hard to
> know where to begin while at the same time not turning my post into
a book ... LOL This
> is my 14th year of homeschooling. I have one son in college and I
have one son who is
> technically in 9th grade. Over th years I feel like we've done it
all or at least tried. I've
> dabbled in unschooling. When my oldest was in 9th grade we pretty
much unschooled
> that year. He refers to that year as the year we didn't do
anything. Interestingly, that was
> the year that he finally learned how to play guitar after trying a
couple of times years
> prior. His music is very important to him ... he is in a band and I
love to hear the songs he
> has written. We have not truly unschooled since that year.
>
> Right now I'm just at a loss. My youngest son although in 9th grade
does not read or write
> well. He does improve each year but he is far from 9th grade
material. You can imagine
> how this affects everything. (By the way, he's never written a
report or any kind of paper in
> his life.) His math is less than desirable as well. He's got the
basics down pretty well for
> the most part be he's of the age where he should be doing algebra
... I don't think so!! I
> realize that I have tried to fit a round peg in a square hole by
making him do traditional
> types of school work. As of two weeks ago I threw the curriculum
out the window (a very
> expensive lesson for mom!). Other than helping me out with things
around the house and
> with my business, he spends his time playing World of Warcraft
(greatly responsible for
> improving his reading skills amongst other things as he is a
brilliant game player) and he
> plays his drums...very well I might add and always on his own. I've
never pushed it ...
> that's his own baby. We have been playing a lot of board games as
well since we threw
> out the curriculum.
>
> So what's the problem? Where do I begin!! I've been freaking out
because I've got the
> mind set of things counting towards graduation. And what about
college?! I haven't been
> able to relax and trust this process. I'm not even sure if it's the
right thing. And God
> forbid if someone asks him or I what he's doing in school. I think
we both panick. If I
> could feel confident in what we're doing I'm sure it would help him
feel confident as well. I
> go about my day wondering what the heck we're doing. Oh my gosh...
and then I just die
> when I hear my son announce to his friends "I didn't do anything
today". Geez.... don't say
> that I'll tell him. You let the wrong person hear that and we'll
have the authorities
> snooping around.
>
> Well... this is a good start. Trust me... I could go on and on but
I'll let it go at this. For
> once in my homeschooling career I'd like to be confident in what
we're doing and just
> relax. I'm tired and burned out.... and it shows at home as my
creativity across the board
> is spent.
>
> Shileen
>

asmb65

What do most schooled children reply when you ask what they did at
school today? "Nothing," is a pretty common reply. What if someone
asked you what you did today? Often the polite answer is, "Nothing
much," simply because the real answer is "did a load of laundry, ate
breakfast (lunch, dinner), went for a walk, played some games, read a
bit..." and on and on. If it's your best friend asking, you'll probably
relate the big aha you had that day, a struggle or something that was
interesting to you. But if it is someone you don't generally have deep
conversations with, "Nothing much," does pretty well.

Of course it's still frustrating when you feel you need to defend what
you're doing! But maybe you could get your kids on board (depending on
their age and inclination) with a help-mom-out-here plea where if they
get asked that question, they think hard of what was the most
interesting thing they thought about, did or realized that day and
relate it to whomever is asking.

Just an idea.

Susan

but I too cringe when I overhear them telling a
> relative we didn't do anything. I feel the need to step in and
> elaborate on the issue. <snip>>
> Tequitia
>

healthunlimited1

Thank you for the warm replies ... for the support and suggestions... and the hugs :). As
much as I hate to admit it, I seem to care too much what other people think. I know that's
a common issue. It seems to be cropping up in other areas of my life recently. Funny...
twice today I have found myself talking about this. Caring too much about how others
think about us is causing me great stress that I don't need. I have heard of a book (years
ago) called something like It's None Of Your Business What Other People Think Of You.
Something like that. I should hunt that down and read it. And I'm realizing more and
more to help with some of those uncomfortable moment when people ask questions is to
have answers ready ahead of time. Be prepared so that I don't have to fear or avoid.
Cause I think I'm darn well ready to put this crap to rest.

But more than that... I worry about my son. I try to find rest in the fact that he has always
been a late bloomer. He's immature for being 14. I worked with an educational counselor
for the Moore Academy (as in Dorothy and Raymond Moore) ... a very wise eldery woman
who I highly respect would remind me of his immaturity and to accept him and support
him where he is. I try to do that. But from time to time fear crops up that I need to be
doing more... that he needs to be doing more. All of Austyn's friends are in school. When
I hear them talk about their school work I sometimes freak out ... not that they're talking
alot about school. Sometimes they mention a tough day or a quick blurb about
something they're doing. And occasionally it's conversations with other homeschoolers
who do more traditional schooling. Anyway, Austyn is not a reader. Never has been...
maybe never will be. Even when he was a little boy he didn't care to be read to much. His
favorite books most of the time were hands on types of books with pop ups or things to
do or find. Guess that should be my first clue. A few years back he was in a reading
program for a year where he went twice a week. It was a kind of hands on type of
program that was really good. It helped him a lot but he still finds it difficult.

I admire all of you who are able to trust this process... trust yourselves... and trust your
child. Lately I've been thinking that I need to do more work on myself... in a nurturing
type of way ... to bring creativity and inspiration back into our home as I notice more and
more how zombie like we are particularly during the day. Sounds wierd I know... but we've
had a lot of challenges that have left us with this burned out feeling. I've got to learn to
let go of the "stuff" and allow a fresh energy to sweep through our home and our own
spirits so that we can soar once again.

Shileen

lyeping2607

> but I too cringe when I overhear them telling a
> > relative we didn't do anything. I feel the need to step in and
> > elaborate on the issue. <snip>>
> > Tequitia
> >
>


Yes, me too!! But then I thought, hang on, my kid's probably think
he's doing nothing because nothing he's doing is, is in anyway
resembles what he constitues as "doing". He's not doing anything
because he's too busy having fun. No wonder he's saying "nothing"
LOL!!!!

So we had a conversation that day, going thru what we've been doing
this pass few months. Well, we've been playing alot of PS2 games,
surfing the net for cheat codes, found Disney Toon town online
community by accident, we now know jellybeans is not just for eating,
you can actually use it as a currency in ToonTown! Learnt all those
bad words via Grand Theft Auto. Learnt how to drive on the ride side
of the road in Simpsons and learnt about nuclear plants too. We went
visiting musuems, leanrt alot about ancient civilization, about
bones. We learnt what skiing is about, tried it and not too sure
about it. We also learnt that to stay the whole day in pjs is fun and
ok, because who cares what other people thinks. We also leanrt that
it's common sense to change out of our pjs, if we need to go out,
because we would look silly if we go shopping in our pjs LOL! We've
learnt so many more routes, to go to so many more places, so much
more than when we first started!

And yes, we know additions and subtractions too, because we need to
in order to be able to take enough cash out of the bank, before we
can go shopping for anything. And of course, we know MUmmy's the
cleverest because she know's her multiplication, hence we're always
thinking of ways to "upset" her by showing off OUR multiplication
knowledge!!!

Son : I know what 10 x 5 equals to!
Mum : No, you don't, and you can't because I'm the cleverest HAH!
Son : OH no you're not! 10 x 5 = 50!!
Mum : Aaarrrgh!!! How come you knew that??!! It's killing meee....
(pretend to melt into a pool of cushions!) No I can't let you beat
me...Bet you don't know what 10 x 10 is!!
Son : Oh yes I do, IT's 100!!"
Mum : Arrgghhh.. the clever mummy witch is dying because your brain
power is too strong for me.....aarrrggh!!!

Son then jump with gleee onto mummy witch!

Yes, I do intervene by re-phrasing the questions to "Tell us/ whoever
how much you paid for your new gaming magazine and tell us what's in
it? or , how do you get that "promotion" in your Toon Town game, or
how many jellybeans do you need for those gags" Of which son will
happily launched into his detailed descriptions of all the different
Cogs and gags and toon-ups with lots of numbers addition thrown in as
well.

So the queston should be re-phrased to "How did you managed to kill
that clever mummy multiplication witch that day?"

Sharon.

greenqueen72

Interesting you should bring this up because I often feel like if I were
to post about my insecurities and doubts I may get beat over the head
for them. I do understand how you feel as I have been struggling with
the same thoughts lately also. My children are a lot younger but non the
less I fell so worried and full of doubt about this process. My kids are
12, 9, 7, & 5 and we have always, for the most part, unschooled- I
probably would be defined eclectic- modestly- with strong unschoolong
tendancies. My 9 yr old is not reading very well and writing is a
non-interest for the most part. She is not very articulate and really
struggles to explain herself clearly so she often (always has) been very
introverted. I try to talk with her about the benefits of reading and
encourage her to work on it but she resents me for it and has begun to
feel concerned herself (i feel so guilty about that). I feel like I
started out with such great intentions but now it's a snowball going
downhill and no matter how hard I try I can't stop it. I 've considered
adding more structure and stuff to the day but my kids (all of them) are
too smart for that- they won't have any of it! They are unschoolers and
they know it- so Mom has to regress- I feel very out of control and
unhappy(some days) with what I have allowed. Maybe I should have never
given them so much freedom to learn on their own? Please don't bash me-
i'm just another loving mom trying to find the right path- handle me
with kindness huh? hehe It doesn't help that DH really isn't on board
either. He thinks we should have more order- our order! ha! that's a
joke! We have very little opportunity to get out since I also sit for a
little one during the week and out car is too small to fit her so we are
home with really no friends around. That doesn't seem to bother my kids
too much but it bothers me! With very little money I am always worried
and distracted. Arghhh! I need perspective too. Burned out is a great
description of how I am feeling also. Maybe it helps just to know that
others feel that way also. Let me offer ((hugs)) also and say from one
momma to another- we will get through this...

~Rachel


--- In [email protected], "healthunlimited1"
<healthunlimited1@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the warm replies ... for the support and suggestions...
and the hugs :). As
> much as I hate to admit it, I seem to care too much what other people
think. I know that's
> a common issue. It seems to be cropping up in other areas of my life
recently. Funny...
> twice today I have found myself talking about this. Caring too much
about how others
> think about us is causing me great stress that I don't need. I have
heard of a book (years
> ago) called something like It's None Of Your Business What Other
People Think Of You.
> Something like that. I should hunt that down and read it. And I'm
realizing more and
> more to help with some of those uncomfortable moment when people ask
questions is to
> have answers ready ahead of time. Be prepared so that I don't have to
fear or avoid.
> Cause I think I'm darn well ready to put this crap to rest.
>
> But more than that... I worry about my son. I try to find rest in the
fact that he has always
> been a late bloomer. He's immature for being 14. I worked with an
educational counselor
> for the Moore Academy (as in Dorothy and Raymond Moore) ... a very
wise eldery woman
> who I highly respect would remind me of his immaturity and to accept
him and support
> him where he is. I try to do that. But from time to time fear crops
up that I need to be
> doing more... that he needs to be doing more. All of Austyn's friends
are in school. When
> I hear them talk about their school work I sometimes freak out ... not
that they're talking
> alot about school. Sometimes they mention a tough day or a quick
blurb about
> something they're doing. And occasionally it's conversations with
other homeschoolers
> who do more traditional schooling. Anyway, Austyn is not a reader.
Never has been...
> maybe never will be. Even when he was a little boy he didn't care to
be read to much. His
> favorite books most of the time were hands on types of books with pop
ups or things to
> do or find. Guess that should be my first clue. A few years back he
was in a reading
> program for a year where he went twice a week. It was a kind of hands
on type of
> program that was really good. It helped him a lot but he still finds
it difficult.
>
> I admire all of you who are able to trust this process... trust
yourselves... and trust your
> child. Lately I've been thinking that I need to do more work on
myself... in a nurturing
> type of way ... to bring creativity and inspiration back into our
home as I notice more and
> more how zombie like we are particularly during the day. Sounds wierd
I know... but we've
> had a lot of challenges that have left us with this burned out
feeling. I've got to learn to
> let go of the "stuff" and allow a fresh energy to sweep through our
home and our own
> spirits so that we can soar once again.
>
> Shileen
>

Debra Rossing

>clever mummy multiplication witch

Had to LOL - a favorite car game is for DS to try to come up with a
number question that will stump me. He'll do things like "What's 10x
20+50-12?" and I'll just calculate it out, generally, as he says it
(238). Sometimes he includes DH in to see which of us can get the answer
first (usually me lol). But, on occasion, when it's just a couple
numbers (10x3+15 for example), I'll say Well, where are the parenthesis
because that changes the answer - 10x3=30+15=45 OR 10x (3+15) is 10x18
which is 180. and so on - brief intros to the idea of order of
operations without having to call it that. On occasion, he's wanted to
see how that looks written out so we'll run through a few number
questions on the chalkboard at home (we painted a whole section of the
dining room/kitchen wall with chalkboard paint).

Deb

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "healthunlimited1"
<healthunlimited1@...> wrote:
>
> But more than that... I worry about my son.


That's because you're a mom! ;-)



>I try to find rest in the fact that he has always
> been a late bloomer. He's immature for being 14.


If your son was late into puberty (as was mine -- at 15.5, he finally
began it, and is almost 16, still in early puberty, really), would you
worry? Or would you say, he is following his own time schedule?

We all have asynchronous development, different strengths and
weaknesses, and so forth. The schools have this bizarre notion that
ALL 3rd graders should be doing xxx and ALL 9th graders should be
doing yyy... but really, some are ahead, some are behind in various
subjects. The "average" that they are teaching to is a minority. It
is as unfair to expect ALL kids to be hitting a particular educational
milestone because they are a certain age as to expect them to hit a
certain height milestone at a certain age. As adults, we accept that
other adults have stronger and weaker areas, and as an adult, I have
discovered parts of me that were very behind back when have begun to
blossom. We should give kids the same respect.



> doing more... that he needs to be doing more. All of Austyn's
friends are in school. When
> I hear them talk about their school work I sometimes freak out ...
not that they're talking
> alot about school. Sometimes they mention a tough day or a quick
blurb about
> something they're doing.


When my ds was in elementary school, we had him in private school.
There was a mother who brought her dd into the school from public
school. The public school, at a certain grade (I can't remember
which) had a medieval thing they did. I was so envious. But our
little school, with help of parents (myself included) decided to do a
medieval study/Valentine's day feast. The mother who had moved her dd
to the school said that what we did was real substance; what the ps
did was nothing in comparison. (And they had a lot more resources!)

So, they may be talking about school, but it may SOUND more "wow" than
it really is if you get down to brass tacks.




> Even when he was a little boy he didn't care to be read to much. His
> favorite books most of the time were hands on types of books with
pop ups or things to
> do or find. Guess that should be my first clue.


One thing that I found is a LOT of boys much prefer books about
things, not stories. (Of course, many, my ds included, get drawn in
by humorous books!) And shorter things, like magazines often appeal.

Also, many boys don't want to SIT and be read to. They may need to do
something else while listening. My son (and yes, I still read to him,
even though he is capable of reading quite well and almost 16) doesn't
usually look like he is listening when I read aloud -- he may be
crocheting, twiddling the Rubik's cube, making chainmaille... you name
it. But he is listening as well.



>
> I admire all of you who are able to trust this process... trust
yourselves... and trust your
> child. Lately I've been thinking that I need to do more work on
myself... in a nurturing
> type of way ... to bring creativity and inspiration back into our
home as I notice more and
> more how zombie like we are particularly during the day.


Is there something YOU want to do? If you begin doing something that
you always wanted to do, he may be curious enough to watch, or maybe
do some, too. Baking, or sewing, or art or... you get the idea.

It is so hard, sometimes, for us to get back in touch with that inner
child, to recapture that sense of wonder that we used to have, after
being so focused on results. Sometimes, though, it is the process.

Good luck finding your "thing" for the moment!

Linda

healthunlimited1

--- In [email protected], "trektheory" <trektheory@...> wrote:

>
> So, they may be talking about school, but it may SOUND more "wow" than
> it really is if you get down to brass tacks.

Yes... I tell myself this as well. And.. I know that it is true.


> Also, many boys don't want to SIT and be read to. They may need to do
> something else while listening. My son (and yes, I still read to him,
> even though he is capable of reading quite well and almost 16) doesn't
> usually look like he is listening when I read aloud -- he may be
> crocheting, twiddling the Rubik's cube, making chainmaille... you name
> it. But he is listening as well.

I definitely found that to be true with Austyn as well. Sometimes he'll get so busy that it
distracts me and I have to ask him to stop or be a little quieter... not because he's not
following the story but because I can't pay attention myself! LOL


>
> Is there something YOU want to do? If you begin doing something that
> you always wanted to do, he may be curious enough to watch, or maybe
> do some, too. Baking, or sewing, or art or... you get the idea.
>
> It is so hard, sometimes, for us to get back in touch with that inner
> child, to recapture that sense of wonder that we used to have, after
> being so focused on results. Sometimes, though, it is the process.
>

Ya know.... all in all I think that in the last 5 years or so I've gottn a little beat up by life
and I've lost my way. You wouldn't know that I am the creative type who used to love to
sew and craft and bake and decorate and do whatever crazy project I could come up with.
I need to find that part of me again. I also think it's time to sit down and talk to Austyn
about where we are and what we're doing and why. We really haven't done that much. It's
been very helpful "airing" this out and getting some perspective. And it is very helpful
reading about what other people are doing.

Thanks, Linda!

Shileen

PS.... This is all I have time to respond to right now. Maybe later tonight I can get to some
of the others... but thanks to all who have taken the time to share with me!!!

lyeping2607

Hi Deb,

Yes it's funny how our kid's occasionally asked about sums and numbers,
purely out of curiosity! It's interesting how they doesn't view "asking
about a sum question" is like asking for trouble "because now mummy's
gonna start droning on about some formula" LOL! But rather, the
attitude applied is not very different from the one when my kid's
checking out a new game - pure fascination!

Sharon

[email protected]

Shileen wrote:

<< As much as I hate to admit it, I seem to care too much what other people
think. I know that's
a common issue. It seems to be cropping up in other areas of my life
recently. Funny...
twice today I have found myself talking about this. Caring too much about
how others
think about us is causing me great stress that I don't need.>>

For me it wasn't just what people thought of me, it's what I imagined they
thought of me, even without them saying anything, which only made me weaker and
more anxious with people who actually did say anything critical. I'd drive
myself nutty preparing for conversations that never even happened, and I'd
often find myself getting pretty depressed. I'd tell myself to stop worrying
about what other people think, but it never did any good.

What I found that helped was a book by Albert Ellis called The New Guide to
Rational Living. It was new to me but it's actually a pretty old book and
not all that well-written (I even skipped a few chapters) but I'd say it's had
about as much of an impact on my thinking as John Holt's stuff did years ago.
In the same way, it started this wave of thinking differently about all
kinds of areas of my life and had kind of a domino effect.

And as an added bonus, it's chock-full of dated vocabulary that kept me
chuckling throughout, with words like balderdash and hogwash that sadly, you just
don't hear too much anymore. ;-)

(Oh, and if anybody happens to think my recommendation is total hogwash or
even poppycock, I'm okay with that now. I'm not even going to think about it.
LOL)

Patty



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lyeping2607

Wow, Shileen, wow!!! No wonder you're burnt out! You're being too
hard on yourself. You did so well with your first, and now, obviously
your 2nd kid is nothing like your first, and you're panicking, and
you're blinded by all your panicking, so much so, you're drowning in
your confusion, which exerbates the panicking even more!

Consider this scenario. What would you do, if you son's decided he's
gonna create his own version of War Craft? Or that he only wants to
be a professional guitar player, and I don't think he needs algebra
to be able to play that guitar fantastically. What can 9th grade do
to help him become a better professional War Craft player?

Now consider this. What would you do if your son decided he doesn't
want to go to uni, but instead he wants to go be a farmer? Would you
let him, or would you throw your hands up in horror?

By then end of the day, algebra can be learnt when he's 20. Degrees
can still be achieved when he's 30. With all these internet, Open
University and correspondence courses, getting a certified education
is possible at whatever age. But getting a wholesome, life changing
and passionate career is another story.

Not all of us is lucky enough to be able turn clock back and do all
those things that we wished we had done. Like when I'm 36, and hated
my advertising job, and I wished I had persist in convincing my
parents to let me pursue fashion(which they all think is full of
fluff and small money!), instead of marketing. Even if I can take
that degree course now, I couldn't possibly afford the pay cut and
time and the energy to start my career all over again, in the fashion
world.

I've seen so many people having to pick a degree course, just because
they've came to that stage of thier life where they have to, they
didn't know what they want, so it's a case of "just pick one". Went
thru the whole uni thing and graduate with a degree. then realised
it's not what they want. Alot of my friends ended up doing a job,
totally different from what they were trained to do.

So what I'm trying to say is, until he decided what he wants to be,
all these grade 9 subjects is not relevant to his mind, therefore
will be a burden and struggle for him to learn, because it seems so
pointless.

My son wanted to be a train driver. Now I'm thinking what's the point
of going to the uni, when all he only wanted to learnt was about how
to work a train? He's better off joining the local Railroad society.

But then he's only 7, and his ambitions will be changing like the
weather.

So, i thinking, what's the harm in throwing your caution to the air
and just let him and you chill for a duration of time, until his
interest is beginning to show you more concrete signs of directions?
Then you can start to pick up from there?

Hope I'm able to help.

Sharon

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: healthunlimited1 <healthunlimited1@...>

So what's the problem? Where do I begin!! I've been freaking out
because I've
got the mind set of things counting towards graduation.

-=-=-==-

Graduation from what?

Don't you know that "The Truly Educated Never Graduate" ? <g> I have
the bumper sticker.

-=-=-=-=-

And what about college?!

-=-=-=-=

What ABOUT college?

-=-=-=-

I haven't been able to relax and trust this process. I'm not even
sure if it's the right
thing.

-=-=-=-=-

Then why are you doing it?

-=-=-=-=-

And God forbid if someone asks him or I what he's doing in school. I
think we both
panick.

-=-=-==-

What does it matter?

Someone asked Duncan the other day what he did in school. He usually
answers that he doesn't DO school. His answer the other day was: "I
learn." <G>

Typically, *schooled* kids answer, "Nothin'."

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

If I could feel confident in what we're doing I'm sure it would help
him feel
confident as well. I go about my day wondering what the heck we're
doing.

-=-=-=-

Then it's time to do some research in order for *you* to feel confident.

www.sandradodd.com
www.joyfullrejoycing.com
Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child, an Unschooled Life
John Taylor Gatto's Dumbing Us Down and The Underground History of
American Education
Grace Lewellyn's Teenage Liberation Handbook
Alfie Kohn's Punished by Rewards
Frank Smith's The Book of Learning and Forgetting
Wes Beach's Opportunities After "High School"

It will help a LOT for you to be informed and confident.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Oh my gosh... and then I just die when I hear my son announce to his
friends "I didn't do anything today".

-=-=-=-=-

And then they impress him with ALL they learned in school that day, huh?

-=-=-=-=-

Geez.... don't say that I'll tell him. You let the wrong person hear
that and we'll have the
authorities snooping around.

-=-=-=-=-

Instead, why don't you help him understand, in educationese, what he
DID learn today? Give HIM confidence in what you're doing!

-=-=-=-=-

Well... this is a good start. Trust me... I could go on and on but
I'll let it
go at this. For once in my homeschooling career I'd like to be
confident in what we're doing and
just relax. I'm tired and burned out.... and it shows at home as my
creativity
across the board is spent.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Confidence is empowering.

But if you don't even know what you're doing, it's hard to have
confidence in it.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: greenqueen72 <boulier72@...>

I feel like I
started out with such great intentions but now it's a snowball going
downhill and no matter how hard I try I can't stop it. I 've considered
adding more structure and stuff to the day but my kids (all of them) are
too smart for that- they won't have any of it! They are unschoolers and
they know it- so Mom has to regress- I feel very out of control and
unhappy(some days) with what I have allowed.

-=-=-=-=-

Rather than "regressing"---how about leaping FORWARD?

What have you "allowed" that makes you so unhappy?

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe I should have never
given them so much freedom to learn on their own?

-=-=-=-

Yeah---coerced learning works so well. <g>

What's your goal for your children?

-=-=-=-=-

It doesn't help that DH really isn't on board
either. He thinks we should have more order- our order! ha! that's a
joke!

-=-=-=-=-=-

Order in what?

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 2, 2007, at 8:59 AM, greenqueen72 wrote:
> My 9 yr old is not reading very well and writing is a
> non-interest for the most part.
>
Most unschoolers of 9 yos would say the same thing about writing. A
lot would say the same thing about reading.

The *real* question is, what do they say about their teens?

While I can't reassure you on the writing (my daughter has been
writing in some form since she could pick up a pencil -- not from
anything I did other than making paper and pencils available) but she
was a later reader. Actually I'm not sure when she could read. She
just didn't like to. It wasn't until she was 12 maybe that she found
an (adult) series she really liked and started reading for pleasure.
Now her ability to read is indistinguishable from those who started
reading at 6.
> She is not very articulate and really
> struggles to explain herself clearly so she often (always has) been
> very
> introverted.
>
I would truly rethink that view of her. You're looking at where she
isn't instead of where she is. Look at her strengths rather than her
perceived weaknesses.

I understand that you think that you're the cause of how she is but
you and she will be loads happier if you celebrate who she is right
this moment rather than giving one thought to trying to move her from
where she is to where you think she should be.

She will get where she will inevitably end up in a more joyful state
of mind if you celebrate where she is at each place on her journey
rather than worrying about where she isn't.

> I try to talk with her about the benefits of reading and
> encourage her to work on it but she resents me for it and has begun to
> feel concerned herself (i feel so guilty about that).
>
Don't. Right this minute swear to yourself that you won't say another
word about reading.

How would you feel if someone talked to you about the benefits of
documentaries and encouraged you to work on paying attention to
documentaries? Doesn't the thought of someone wanting you to like
such a vague thing that doesn't in itself have much meaning make it
sound really dull?

But if someone says "Hey, I saw this really cool show on [some thing
that you're passionate about]" wouldn't you want to see it?

Only schools need to worry about reading because they have people who
will take away their funding if they can't show that the kids are
learning to read.

Unschoolers live life. Part of life includes TV shows and real people
and games and books about things the kids are interested in. Learning
to read is a by product of wanting to explore what interests them.

Reading for reading's sake is as dull as watching documentaries for
documentary's sake.

> Maybe I should have never
> given them so much freedom to learn on their own?

Why do you believe the schools are doing any better? Do you think
every 9 yo in school is reading? And writing? Yeah, they wish. The
schools take credit for kids learning to read, but when kids are in a
print rich environment with nurturing parents, the kids will read
when they're developmentally able. (Thousands of unschooled kids are
testament to this.)

What schools do is rob kids of the realization that they can read
without being taught and then torture the ones who would naturally
read later into believing they're broken and too stupid to do what
"everyone" else is doing.
> That doesn't seem to bother my kids
> too much but it bothers me!
>
Why do you think their happiness isn't enough of a clue that they're
happy?

That's a serious question to ponder. I think another damaging thing
schools, and society in general, is to get us to believe that we
can't know what's true by our own observation. We need experts to
tell us. We can't supposedly know when a child is sick. We can't
supposedly know when a child is learning properly. So we need experts
to tell us all the things we're too ignorant to see for ourselves.

It's disempowering. And a bunch of bunk.

While I would try to joyfully get out of the house when you can,
being in the house with a mom who celebrates the moment is going to
top a mom who is in the house wishing she could be elsewhere. One
joyfully eaten Oreo will trump one Oreo eaten with the regret that
there isn't a whole bag of Oreos.

Joyce

Faith Void

That's really neat. My dd (10) had "invented" a game like that starting in
toddlerhood. She started adding cars and it developed from there. We still
do it when she requests it. Now my ds (4) has been playing for a couple
years.Our state requires testing, which my dd decided to try and I had to
explain the symbols because we've never written math.
Faith

On 11/2/07, Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> >clever mummy multiplication witch
>
> Had to LOL - a favorite car game is for DS to try to come up with a
> number question that will stump me. He'll do things like "What's 10x
> 20+50-12?" and I'll just calculate it out, generally, as he says it
> (238). Sometimes he includes DH in to see which of us can get the answer
> first (usually me lol). But, on occasion, when it's just a couple
> numbers (10x3+15 for example), I'll say Well, where are the parenthesis
> because that changes the answer - 10x3=30+15=45 OR 10x (3+15) is 10x18
> which is 180. and so on - brief intros to the idea of order of
> operations without having to call it that. On occasion, he's wanted to
> see how that looks written out so we'll run through a few number
> questions on the chalkboard at home (we painted a whole section of the
> dining room/kitchen wall with chalkboard paint).
>
> Deb
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> CNC Software, Inc.
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]