Sara

there is another family with 2 kids who consider homeschooling. they
come to my house alot. one child is 12 year old and the other one is 5
year old.
the older child had hard time in school, being taunted by teachers and
kids. he was streotyped as the ADHD one and was forcely medicated for
4 years. Thankfully the parents took him off medications. He is NOT
ADHD. he is a bright sensitive child.

now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.
The younger brother likes to see him playing the games, as well my son
likes to try to play too.

So the kids end up by the compupter many hours. Otherwise they jump
around on the bed or play with the cat few minutes a time. They are
doing this already for 2 months in the summer vacation... and will not
go back to school.

Is there anything I could do to help? I know its deschooling. What
shall I expect in the deschooling? Looks like long time - 2 months.
How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool? will he be on the
computer forever? I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to
do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.
(when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)

Melissa

My ten year old took 18 months...so I'd add another half year or so
for a 12 yo to finish deschooling.
Maybe being on the computer *is* unschooling for him. My son's
primary means of learning is online, and it is a lot of learning ;-)
I'd give him a lot of space to figure out who he is, offer LOTS of
activities, and let go of the expectations. The five year old will
probably do a lot better. Good luck!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Sara wrote:

> there is another family with 2 kids who consider homeschooling. they
> come to my house alot. one child is 12 year old and the other one is 5
> year old.
> the older child had hard time in school, being taunted by teachers and
> kids. he was streotyped as the ADHD one and was forcely medicated for
> 4 years. Thankfully the parents took him off medications. He is NOT
> ADHD. he is a bright sensitive child.
>
> now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
> computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.
> The younger brother likes to see him playing the games, as well my son
> likes to try to play too.
>
> So the kids end up by the compupter many hours. Otherwise they jump
> around on the bed or play with the cat few minutes a time. They are
> doing this already for 2 months in the summer vacation... and will not
> go back to school.
>
> Is there anything I could do to help? I know its deschooling. What
> shall I expect in the deschooling? Looks like long time - 2 months.
> How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool? will he be on the
> computer forever? I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to
> do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.
> (when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
> mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/21/2007 2:45:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
nurturinghome@... writes:

How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool?


_______________________________________________

Roughly 6 months, from what I understand - and of coure, that varies from
person t person, but the approximation has been mentioned before...somewhere,
lol...

Time. Opportunity, too. That's a big one. For now, the kids, the older one
especially, needs to get to know himself before he can find what he loves. And
when he DOES find what he loves, he may change that up again, lol! But with
the opportunity idea, maybe suggest ideas that you've seen on TV, anything
from animal shows, to science, to the weather channel to the food network (Alton
Brown!). Maybe bake with him. Let him knead some dough, choose a flavor of
ice cream to make. Collect bugs :) There's lots to do, but it's hard to see it
when the idea of doing "nothing" is there. Nothing isn't possible, we are
always doing something. I know it's hard to see that at first...really hard.
Oh, and music! Find bands he likes, maybe, songs he likes and look them up on
the computer..oh, there is a lot. And I'm SURE someone else will have some
excellent ideas and some better ideas...I'm quite new at this! But making the
opportunity, without the demands of having him do it (he still needs to decide
for himself and no one should be hurt if he doesn't like the idea, just time
for more creative solutions). Oh, planting flowers, veggies, stuff like that
too...

It will all come together, in time.

Karen



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christy Mahoney

I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to
> do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.

Perhaps the computer IS what he likes to do right now. Playing on the
computer is not just one thing. My daughter is on her computer most
of the time when we are at home, but she does a lot of different
things - plays The Sims 2 and downloads a lot of stuff for the game,
reads fanfiction and occasionally writes stories to post there, plays
dress up/makeover games while listening to music, sends messages to
family & friends, reads some favorite blogs, reads articles at
LiveScience and oh, probably lots more stuff too.

-Christy

[email protected]

Deschooling can vary, depending on the kid. Can be about a month per year of school, but since he's probably had a hard time in school from the get-go, maybe a lot more.

I think he actually does have an idea about what he wants to do - it's reading comic books and playing on the computer!

You say the kids whine to their mother that they are bored. Do you see what the mom does when that happens at their home? Is mom engaged with the kids? She'll have to deschool, too, especially since her older son has been in school all this time. I'm guessing she's new to this concept of unschooling. Send her to Sandra's and Joyce's sites; get her a copy of Live Free, Learn Free, or a subscription to Connections e-zine. Those voices will help her initially; then you can invite her to this list <g>. I'll post the links to the above (once I find them), if you want.

I'm curious why you say "I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to do and not be bored easily when there is no computer"? Is "no computer" likely? Is that going to determine if they homeschool/unschool?

Are you worried about the influence of the currently-deschooling child? It sounds like a lot of worrying going on here <g>.

Robin B.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>

> there is another family with 2 kids who consider homeschooling. they
> come to my house alot. one child is 12 year old and the other one is 5
> year old.
> the older child had hard time in school, being taunted by teachers and
> kids. he was streotyped as the ADHD one and was forcely medicated for
> 4 years. Thankfully the parents took him off medications. He is NOT
> ADHD. he is a bright sensitive child.
>
> now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
> computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.
> The younger brother likes to see him playing the games, as well my son
> likes to try to play too.
>
> So the kids end up by the compupter many hours. Otherwise they jump
> around on the bed or play with the cat few minutes a time. They are
> doing this already for 2 months in the summer vacation... and will not
> go back to school.
>
> Is there anything I could do to help? I know its deschooling. What
> shall I expect in the deschooling? Looks like long time - 2 months.
> How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool? will he be on the
> computer forever? I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to
> do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.
> (when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
> mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>
wrote:
>> How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool?

At *least* six months. Maybe longer, depending on personalities and
family dynamics. Mom and dad have to deschool, too, and parents take
longer and tend to get in the way ;)

> now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
> computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.

Here's a good example of how a parent's need to deschool can get in
the way. Sounds like the kid knows *exactly* what he likes to do!
*And* he has a strong ability to focus - something he may not have
had a chance to really exercise in school, which expects kids to
drop and change at fairly short intervals (and then people complain
about attention problems, go figure!).

Are mom and dad offerring lots of fun things to do? If not, he could
be doing these things as more of a default. That's worth
considering. School really erodes kids' ability to self-motivate, so
new unschoolers can sometimes need a lot of help figuring out what
they want to do. School also breaks down communication between kids
and adults, so its really important for deschooling parents to make
lots of overtures.

> (when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
> mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)
<snip>
> Is there anything I could do to help?

Yes! Help mom come up with lots and lots of fun stuff for them to
do. If they have different interests, can you take one of them while
mom does something with the other? I have a similar age split
between Mo and Ray and sometimes trying to meet both their interests
at the same time can be a challenge. Especially since Ray has no
interest in going places like museums, or anything that seems
remotely "educational". He's been out of school almost a year and
still has that baggage - but Mo has never been in school, so she's
happy to do some of the things Ray cringes at. Having friends
willing to take one of my kids somewhere - or just hang out at home
with one of them while I take the other out - is a real lifesaver.

If mom is interested in unschooling, she might find it helpful to
browse various sites and boards for discussions of ideas
like "autonomy" and "partnership". School and conventional parenting
tend to favor the idea of "independence" which tends to put a big
wedge between parents and kids. Part of deschooling for parents
involves learning how to have a different kind of relationship with
children.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

Sara

This is a little difficult for me because my options are limited. I
don't have a car. When I will have my driving license I will figure
out how to get a car.
so there is no enough publich transportation. It means I can go out
just locally like to the stores or to the library depending on the
weather. I have to stroll along a baby in a stroller.

which is limiting the 'fun' stuff we can do.
we have lots of games, like battleships, traffic, puzzles etc etc. we
are going to order things little by little.

I can sometimes do fun stuff like cooking, doing karate, exercise,
some art projects.. depending on the kids moods.

The mother is very stressfull and feeling overwhelmed. She is working
as a massage therapist in her house on and off. I sense they have some
difficulties as well financial dificulties which gets both parents
working long hours.
The mother sometimes can go out with her kids or do some art projects
with them (if the kids are interested LOL)

The mother claims the kids are 'breaking down' her apt making mess.
her kids are seemingly bored and stressed.
When her kids ate over my house I noticed they had bad habits of not
picking after themselves, and letting food dropping all over. When I
ask them to clean after themselves they frown and resent it. They used
to bring snacks to the computer room, but thankfully they respect my
asking not to bring these snacks to the computer room dirting it down.

what do you think? I am a little scared from this coming year.. help!
I feel like in a begining of a roller coaster wooohooo! hahaha!

[email protected]

Here are the links I mentioned:

Joyce Fetterol's site:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/

Sandra Dodd's site:
http://sandradodd.com

Some of Sandra's articles that may come in handy in this situation:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

http://sandradodd.com/beginning

http://sandradodd.com/BoredNoMore

http://sandradodd.com/howto

http://sandradodd.com/nest

http://sandradodd.com/peace/mama

The Live Free Learn Free magazine site:
http://www.livefreelearnfree.com/

The Connections e-zine site and sample issue:
http://connections.organiclearning.org/Issue0/index.html

Robin B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sara

thank you for all of these links!

geminimmn_99

I am usually a lurker here but this post really stuck out to me. My
name is Michelle and I am mom to Justin(11).
You could be describing my son. He has been out of PS since March of
this year. He had an awful time at school, especially the last year.
He was also labeled ADHD and all the other labels that come with it.
We have been deschooling for almost six months now. My son after
being home for a few weeks kind of felt like a fish out of water. He
really didn't know what to do with himself. For the past 6 years or
better he had someone else telling him what to do everyday, someone
telling him what was important and what wasn't. He honestly didn't
know how to think for himself. Just talking with him has helped alot.
He needed to know that we had a plan. It was a HUGE adjustment for
him. We talked ALOT! I explained the different avenues of
homeschooling and kept telling him that we would find what worked
best for him no matter what. And that for right now lets just hang
out..no stress..no worry. I almost think that he needed me to tell
him that it was ok to just do what you liked, do what makes you
happy. And yes at first what made him happy was the TV and computer.
He never had that freedom before. But I will tell you that the TV and
computer has led to so many other things. I can see everyday that he
is shedding his previously schooled skin. We didn't plan to unschool
in the beginning. Our living and having fun has just led us to that.
I guess I don't really have any "advice" for you but just wanted to
share what worked for us.

Michelle


--- In [email protected], "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>
wrote:
>
> there is another family with 2 kids who consider homeschooling.
they
> come to my house alot. one child is 12 year old and the other one
is 5
> year old.
> the older child had hard time in school, being taunted by teachers
and
> kids. he was streotyped as the ADHD one and was forcely medicated
for
> 4 years. Thankfully the parents took him off medications. He is NOT
> ADHD. he is a bright sensitive child.
>
> now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
> computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.
> The younger brother likes to see him playing the games, as well my
son
> likes to try to play too.
>
> So the kids end up by the compupter many hours. Otherwise they jump
> around on the bed or play with the cat few minutes a time. They are
> doing this already for 2 months in the summer vacation... and will
not
> go back to school.
>
> Is there anything I could do to help? I know its deschooling. What
> shall I expect in the deschooling? Looks like long time - 2 months.
> How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool? will he be on
the
> computer forever? I wish he will start to figure out what he likes
to
> do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.
> (when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
> mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)
>

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>
wrote:
>> The mother claims the kids are 'breaking down' her apt making
mess.
> her kids are seemingly bored and stressed.

Having a home in active use 24/7 means a lot more wear and tear.
That's one of the "downsides" to any kind of homeschooling, much
less unschooling. Its *possible* to have a tidy home and unschool,
but its generally more realistic for parents to make their peace
with a higher level of mess in addition to looking for ways to
streamline cleanup.

Since mom is working out of her home, this is likely adding to her
stress about mess - her home is "on display" so she doesn't really
get a chance to say "oh, its *just* a mess". Some brainstorming
needs to be done from that direction - how can the family reduce
mom's stress over clients having to wade through kid stuff?

> When her kids ate over my house I noticed they had bad habits of
not
> picking after themselves, and letting food dropping all over. When
I
> ask them to clean after themselves they frown and resent it.

Its normal for kids who have been *made* to clean up (or anything
else for that matter) to be somewhat resentful when asked to do so,
even nicely. Maybe you can shift your own expectations to that of a
charming and gracious hostess - do you ask your adult friends to
clean up after themselves?

If your guests are messy people, you can take precautions -
placemats, maybe even a sheet thrown down under the table for easier
cleanup. You can rearrange your cleaning habits somewhat so that you
wait to do some of your housekeeping until after the messy friends
leave.

You could also plan to have snacks that are deliberately somewhat
messy - that way you are totally in the mindset that "there's going
to be a mess" and are comfortable with it beforehand and can pre-
plan cleaning solutions. Its also lots of fun - gooey things to eat
with fingers or lick off plates, foods that are also treasure
hunts.... great times. And to top it all off, it gives the kids the
message that their enjoyment is worth a bit of mess and
inconvenience to you.

> The mother is very stressfull and feeling overwhelmed.

Does mom *want* to unschool or does she feel like "nothing else
worked so I guess we're unschooling?" I've heard that now and again -
it seems like a really hard place to be, emotionally. I never had
to deal with that regarding unschooling per se, but my stepson
moving in didn't seem like much of a "choice" on our part, at the
time. It was really important for me and my partner to have some
very honest private conversations about frustration and resentment
so we could move through those feelings to something more positive.

This is where thinking in terms of relationships (rather than goals,
manners or "education") is one of the most powerful aspects of
unschooling. For the sake of their relationships, mom and dad need
to spend more time connecting with the kids. As a friend, you can
focus on your own relationship with the kids as well as looking for
ways to support mom and dad. When things are stressful at home, you
can be a safe, comfortable place for the kids to decompress a bit.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

Sara

Well, when I have guests over once or twice I say nothing if they
mess, but if the guests come to my house almost everyday they become
my house 'members' and I ask them to share the keeping the house
liveable, hence picking up after themselves. I have an adult guest who
isn't a guest anymore she is my house member! and I asked her to help
us by picking after herself!
The kids are coming to my house alot they become the part of the
household include the upside of being welcomed with the 'downside' of
being treated like household members.

I am deaf and have hard time to understand so I can't talk with them
much. The boys are not that talktive. And the younger boy looks sad
and quiet. They don't have patience to repeat what they are saying so
I could understand them. I speak sign language and hope one day they
will be curious to learn!

About the mess, I guess I will get a throw map on the table that I can
shake everything off after lunches. But it bothers me that the floor
gets food pieces all over. My kids don't drop foods on floor.

When the kids go to sleep in my house they end up jumping all over
pillowfight especially at 12:00 am and slamming doors. I don't like
this and demand it to be stopped. My son once slammed the door, I was
upset and told him to sleep in our bedroom and not with these 2 boys.
my son got upset and cried a while and promised not to slam doors.

Well coming for a sleepover once or twice its okay for me if they
sleep at 12:00 am + pillowfighting + jumping and howling, but anyone
living in my house I want a sane schedule, normal bedtime.
Making so much noise so late it keeps the baby awake and crying.

Adult guests who choose to sleep late are considerate of others and
talk with hush voices. A far difference than going crazy like indian
warriors, hahahah!

Pillow fight is okay with me but not THAT late. I can get them to the
bedroom at 8 pm so they can do all of the jumping and pillow fight
they like, so they can unwind and be asleep at 12:00 am.
No matter what - no door slamming is tolerated!

I wonder why they need to do all of the pillow fights in the middle of
the night and not shift those loud activities to the daytime, they
could do all of the fights they want in my grassy backyard in a broad
sunlight and nobody will mind!
Is all of their stress from school need outlet most of all of the
times in the twilight of the midnight?

I think its hilarious when their mother comes to pick these boys they
cry and beg not to go back home they love to stay in my house!

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>
wrote:
>> I think its hilarious when their mother comes to pick these boys
they
> cry and beg not to go back home they love to stay in my house!

I think its sad that they aren't as at home in their own house -
*do* their parents want to unschool? That still isn't clear. Are
they using you as a childcare provider until one of them can be home
with the kids closer to full-time? Or are you becomming the default
nanny for this family?

> The kids are coming to my house alot they become the part of the
> household include the upside of being welcomed with the 'downside'
of
> being treated like household members.

Do *you* want to unschool? I'm very puzzled, here. Radical
unschooling isn't about "getting" family members to do housekeeping
for mom's convenience, so I don't understand what you mean about
the "downside". Here are a couple links on the subject of
unschooling "chores" that might be helpful:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
halfway down the right side of the page there's a whole section of
articles under the heading "chores"

http://sandradodd.com/chores

If you are planning on unschooling your little one, you may want to
start thinking about these ideas now - its never too soon to start
deschooling yourself!

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

Ren Allen

~~No matter what - no door slamming is tolerated!~~

I try to look at what my children are doing and why something is
happening, rather than saying "not tolerated!" If you lay down the
law, kids are much less likely to understand they reasoning behind
something or work with you to come up with an agreeable solution.

If waking the baby is the problem, then that is what needs to be
addressed. Is the door slamming happening just because they are
excited and energetic? Is it happening because someone is upset? Can
the door be left open or taken off the frame all together?

I think all people in my home have a say in how it is kept and what
unfolds here.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Sara

door slamming can damage the doors and frames, be dangerous in case
the baby is there with the hand in the wrong place in the wrong
time... any kid can be there having the feet or hands pinched by the
slammed door. Also the noise is startling the baby especially if it
happens in the night..

I tell the kids please don't slam the doors. I don't want broken doors
or hurt kids!

Recently there was terrible news about 2 kids aged 8 and age 5 playing
wildly. They played catching around the house. The kid aged 5 slammed
a glass door, while the 9 year old kid was running and didn't stop
himself on the time, by mistake he bumped into the closed glass door
breaking into the glass causing the shattered glass stabbing him in
the neck. the child died within minutes from blood loss. I have a
glass door in my house.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sara <nurturinghome@...>

now I see he has no idea what he likes to do. He is playing on
computer games for all day. Or reads comic books all day.
The younger brother likes to see him playing the games, as well my son
likes to try to play too.

-=-=-=-=-

He DOES have a very clear idea of what he likes to do!

-=-=-=-=-

So the kids end up by the compupter many hours. Otherwise they jump
around on the bed or play with the cat few minutes a time. They are
doing this already for 2 months in the summer vacation... and will not
go back to school.

-=-=-=-=-

Cool!

-=-=-=-=-

Is there anything I could do to help? I know its deschooling. What
shall I expect in the deschooling? Looks like long time - 2 months.
How long is it likely for a 6th grader to deschool? will he be on the
computer forever? I wish he will start to figure out what he likes to
do and not be bored easily when there is no computer.
(when he is home with his brother they get bored and whine to their
mother I am bored I am bored nonstop)


-=-=-=-

Two months ain't NOTHING!

I'm guessing it'll be closer to 12-18 months.

What does she have for them to do? Do they go out? Plan/cook meals?
Make Christmas cards? Take black & white photos of them?

If she talks with them in advance and they plan to do 3-5 outings each
week, they'll have something to do each day.

Why doesn't she have things for them to do? When we first started
(Cameron was 13 and just out of 6th grade), we'd go to the beach on
Monday, the zoo on Tuesday, have Pajama & Pizza-Movies-all-day on
Wednesday, walk the Congaree National Swamp on Thursday, make sushi on
Friday.

Find cool things to DO. Be interested & interesting.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Sara" <nurturinghome@...>
wrote:
>
> door slamming can damage the doors and frames, be dangerous in case
> the baby is there with the hand in the wrong place in the wrong
> time... any kid can be there having the feet or hands pinched by
the
> slammed door. Also the noise is startling the baby especially if it
> happens in the night..
>
> I tell the kids please don't slam the doors. I don't want broken
doors
> or hurt kids!

Its better to deal with issues like this separately, rather than
lumping them all together - when you group a bunch of issues like
this, even when they all tie together in a logical way in *your*
mind, kids are waaaaaaaaaay more likely to tune you out and not
listen to *any* of your reasons. They don't *see* damaged doors and
hurt kids *right now* - so its easy to disregard your concerns. Here
are some ideas for talking and thinking about the various issues
around the doors in your home:

> door slamming can damage the doors and frames

Having kids around does cause more wear-and-tear on the home, as I
said before. The more energetic the kid(s) the more wear and tear.
Past a certain point, you *can't* stop that, short of tying the kids
up or kicking them out of the house. Active kids use bigger, more
forceful motions. If you aren't used to active kids, its kind of
startling how much Oomph they can put into the littlest gesture. My
stepson used to be infamous for hugs that could knock people down ;)

Where I live, pretty much everyone slams doors in the summer - darn
things don't close otherwise, with all the humidity. If you have
particularly dainty doors, it would be a good idea to remove or
replace them, or at least the glass, but by-and-large, doors can
take a Lot of slamming. Heck, I've kicked a couple doors open in my
time and even that doesn't harm them as much as you'd think.

> be dangerous in case
> the baby is there with the hand in the wrong place in the wrong
> time...

I wouldn't talk about this with the kids in terms of the door, but
rather in terms of the baby. Chances are, they aren't interested in
actually hurting anyone, they just need a reminder when they're on
the run to watch out for the littlest. They may also need many
reminders when baby is sleeping - they don't have a baby at home, so
they aren't used to thinking about one all the time.

It may also be necessary to plan for them to be around when the baby
is awake. I don't know what kind of arrangement you have, but if you
were thinking "oh, I have time for these guys when baby's asleep"
you might want to reconsider.

> the 9 year old kid was running and didn't stop
> himself on the time, by mistake he bumped into the closed glass
door
> breaking into the glass causing the shattered glass stabbing him in
> the neck. the child died within minutes from blood loss. I have a
> glass door in my house.

Yes kids *do* run smack-dab into things from time to time. Including
windows, lamps and tv sets (and people). You can spend a lot of time
and energy saying "no" and "stop" and "slow down" or you can kid-
proof the house a bit more. Different ages take different kinds of
kid-proofing. Babies may need outlets covered, toddlers may need
bookcases screwed to the walls, older kids may need to have some
obstacles removed so they aren't always running into things.

This sort of shift in thinking about kid-proofing is something that
happens normally as your child ages, but it isn't intuitive when all
of a sudden you have older kids in your home. Its a sort of culture
shock.

Is it an interior door or an exterior door? If the door is inside
the house, consider removing it entirely for awhile, or just leave
it open. If its a door to outside, you can ask them to play their
chase-games outside *or* inside, if you need to shut out the
weather, and discuss it with them in terms of the weather. Its too
hot/cold/wet to leave the door open, sorry guys. If the weather
*isn't* an issue, leave the door open and put up a gate for baby.

Having a baby, it may be that 5, and especially 12 (thats their
ages, right?), seem really big and old by comparison. Its important
to keep in mind just how "young" 5 and 12 are. My stepson will be 14
in a month, and is nearly six feet tall! and I periodically need to
remind myself how young 14 really is. Particularly when he's
bouncing around with an abundance of "boyish enthusiasm!"

It sounds like you're offerring them a whole lot of opportunities to
express their "boyish enthusiasm" - wonderful! Hopefully some of
these suggestions will help you find ways to continue to do that
with a little less stress on your part, so you don't end up burning
out. You sound like such a caring resource for this other family.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

[email protected]

A thick towel draped over the top of a door keeps it from shutting on fingers
and slamming.

Sometimes, it's so much simpler and pleasanter for everyone if we stop
putting our energy into trying to change a child and just change the environment.

Deborah in IL


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~
Sometimes, it's so much simpler and pleasanter for everyone if we stop
putting our energy into trying to change a child and just change the
environment.~~


Oooh, oooh, oooh!!! I was just working on a talk that has a big
section on this. It's kind of like permaculture in my
opinion...working WITH nature instead of against it. When we are
thinking about ways to work with our children, it changes everything.
Trying to get them to mold to the environment is exhausting and
unproductive. Molding the environment around their needs is so much
better for everyone involved.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com