[email protected]

I am not sure how to deal with this current situation. My daughter is almost 15 and has been unschooling for one year. Her Dad is onboard with the unschooling, (in terms of her not being in school or following a formal curriculum) but not really the unschooling parenting aspects of it, and with not saying no to anything. I have been practicing mindful parenting with her myself, (constantly working on it, and this list has helped me) and my relationship with her has improved, but he is not onboard with that, (he thinks I am too permissive with her) and with this current situation, he is a definate NO all around.

We have a nice vacation cabin up near Tahoe, near a couple of lakes. I have said yes to my daughter and her best friend (who is schooled and whose divorced parents dont trust her) going up there alone to hang out as long as they leave the place clean and dont get into any kind of trouble or invite lots of people I do not know over. I have known her best friend since she was a little girl.
Recently, she went to visit a friend who moved away, and now wants to invite this girl, another girl I dont know but have heard about and this girls boyfriend, up to the cabin for a few days to one week. I dont really trust the former friend, because I know her and she has a history of getting into trouble, getting out of hand rowdy, and lying about things. These kids are all in school and from what I hear, are involved in alot of partying. I am reticent to have minors I am legally liable for up in my cabin, because if anything happens I am legally responsible. I do not know two of these kids at all, and I cannot accompany them up there because I have to work. My daughter says I do not trust her judgment and we got in a huge fight over it last night. I told her I have no problem with her and Carley going up, but these other kids are a wild card to me, and I dont want things to get out of hand. My husband says NO WAY are we allowing our place to be used as a party hangout for teena
geres we suspect are involved in drugs and alcohol, based on what we have heard from other sources. We built this cabin mainly for investment purposes, and have every motiviation to keep it in top condition, as we plan to sell it soon. I initially said No also, but after this big blowout I had with my dd, I wonder how to balance trying to maintain a united front with my husband, who has different perspectives than I have, and give my daughter what she wants. I really am opposed to having these kids up there, so how do I deal with my feelings as well? Incidentally, my daughter knows one of these girls pretty well (the former friend) but the other girl she knows only peripherally, and she just met the boyfriend.
Any input appreciated. I may not be able to respond, (time constraints) but I will read every response.
Kathryn

Cameron Parham

"My daughter says I do not trust her judgement" One of the things about this is...Do you have a right to your own feelings, and to take care of your own things? Does your dd have to share every one of her possessions, no matter whether she trusts the person who would use it or not? Do you have the right to model taking care of your own posessions, especially one that is very expensive and that you plan to sell? I have only been unschooling sinve March of this year and I realize that I have a lot to learn. But surely we as parents should still model honoring our own feelings and values, too. Still I know how bad I feel when my 13 yo ds says that I am showing a lack of trust in him! I wish that they could understand that we trust in their hearts and good intentions but also know that they are inexperienced.
Cameron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I've had first hand experience over the years with my kids just wanting to
have a few kids for a *gathering* ....but then word gets around ( especially if
no adult will be present) and it turns into something the child never even
*wanted* in the first place....and something potentially *unsafe*.

In my opinion, saying yes to your daughter about most things in life is
fine...but *safety* has to be considered also.

~marcia in MA


In a message dated 6/25/2007 2:02:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
airokat@... writes:




I am not sure how to deal with this current situation. My daughter is almost
15 and has been unschooling for one year. Her Dad is onboard with the
unschooling, (in terms of her not being in school or following a formal curriculum)
but not really the unschooling parenting aspects of it, and with not saying no
to anything. I have been practicing mindful parenting with her myself,
(constantly working on it, and this list has helped me) and my relationship with her
has improved, but he is not onboard with that, (he thinks I am too permissive
with her) and with this current situation, he is a definate NO all around.

We have a nice vacation cabin up near Tahoe, near a couple of lakes. I have
said yes to my daughter and her best friend (who is schooled and whose divorced
parents dont trust her) going up there alone to hang out as long as they
leave the place clean and dont get into any kind of trouble or invite lots of
people I do not know over. I have known her best friend since she was a little
girl.
Recently, she went to visit a friend who moved away, and now wants to invite
this girl, another girl I dont know but have heard about and this girls
boyfriend, up to the cabin for a few days to one week. I dont really trust the
former friend, because I know her and she has a history of getting into trouble,
getting out of hand rowdy, and lying about things. These kids are all in school
and from what I hear, are involved in alot of partying. I am reticent to have
minors I am legally liable for up in my cabin, because if anything happens I
am legally responsible. I do not know two of these kids at all, and I cannot
accompany them up there because I have to work. My daughter says I do not trust
her judgment and we got in a huge fight over it last night. I told her I have
no problem with her and Carley going up, but these other kids are a wild card
to me, and I dont want things to get out of hand. My husband says NO WAY are
we allowing our place to be used as a party hangout for teena
geres we suspect are involved in drugs and alcohol, based on what we have
heard from other sources. We built this cabin mainly for investment purposes, and
have every motiviation to keep it in top condition, as we plan to sell it
soon. I initially said No also, but after this big blowout I had with my dd, I
wonder how to balance trying to maintain a united front with my husband, who has
different perspectives than I have, and give my daughter what she wants. I
really am opposed to having these kids up there, so how do I deal with my
feelings as well? Incidentally, my daughter knows one of these girls pretty well
(the former friend) but the other girl she knows only peripherally, and she just
met the boyfriend.
Any input appreciated. I may not be able to respond, (time constraints) but I
will read every response.
Kathryn









************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

infreondscipe

"We have a nice vacation cabin up near Tahoe, near a couple of lakes"

Well let me first say I just really hope all okay up there with the
Eldorado fires.

"and now wants to invite this girl, another girl I don't know"

I know it's disappointing for your dd, perhaps explain the truth of
is that you DO trust her judgment? The "no" is a consequence of her
choices in invitees is all. Maybe she can make a different choice
that would be agreeable to all of you.

Just a personal anecdote - My dh is from Tahoe and I'm from No. Nv.
My family had a cabin/home at Donner all the time I was growing up.
I was allowed to summer from about 15 on provided I had a driving age
friend to summer with me. Once I was 16 I could live there anytime.
My folks would often come up on weekends and when they were there I
could have any friends I wanted up. It was just the best time in my
young life. I regret that I do not have such a thing to share with my
teenage son so if there is any way to honor your dh and work out a
compromise I think it would be such a special time for your dd.

Very best of luck to you,
Chris

Meredith

--- In [email protected], airokat@... wrote:
>I initially said No also, but after this big blowout I had with my
dd, I wonder how to balance trying to maintain a united front with
my husband, who has different perspectives than I have, and give my
daughter what she wants. I really am opposed to having these kids up
there, so how do I deal with my feelings as well?
*********************

I think its important to separate your own feelings from the "united
front" thing. That's a concept that comes out of rule-based
parenting and doesn't necessarily help when looking for options and
solutions.

That being said, unschooling isn't about giving kids whatever they
want whenever they want, either. It is about communication and
creative problem-solving, though, so its important that you try to
work toward a mutually satisfactory solution with your dd *and* dh.

***************
> We have a nice vacation cabin up near Tahoe, near a couple of
lakes. I have said yes to my daughter and her best friend (who is
schooled and whose divorced parents dont trust her) going up there
alone to hang out as long as they leave the place clean and dont get
into any kind of trouble or invite lots of people I do not know
over. I have known her best friend since she was a little girl.
*****************

Something that's not clear to me, reading this - have they actually
gone and done this, yet, or have you said "yes" but now the
situation has changed? If they've been doing this, how has it been
working out?

*****************
I do not know two of these kids at all, and I cannot accompany them
up there because I have to work.
******************

More clarification... you can't *ever* go because you have to work?
Or are we talking about a specific trip? If its the former, I'd look
into doing some schedule rearranging so that you can go with her now
and again. If we're talking about one specific trip, I'd say its
important to emphasize that, while you are happy to facilitate a
party or event, its just not possible *now* due to work. Can they
all come hang out at your house and have a movie-marathon or
something, instead?

Another thought is - what kind of experience does your dd have with
high-school parties? Does she have enough to know what kinds of
behavior to expect and be able to troubleshoot and deal with
potential consequences? When my brother was 17 my parents went out
of town for a long weekend with the understanding that he'd be
throwing a party. They opted for "don't ask, don't tell" but they
also trusted my bro' to be on top of things. He was. But he'd been
to plenty of rowdy parties by then and knew what to expect. He
didn't have an attitude of "it will be fine, no one will drink" but
of "I'll make sure no-one drives drunk, clean up the mess and pay
for any damages." Since they didn't ask, he didn't actually say that
to *them* but it was an implied part of the deal. He was to be
Responsible.

So maybe talk to your dd from that perspective - its not reasonable
to expect a group of teens to go to a summer cabin and not bring
booze. What kinds of plans does she have for managing that
situation? After all, as the hostess, she'd be the one responsible
for *all* of them. Is that a responsibility she *wants*?

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], airokat@... wrote:
>> We have a nice vacation cabin up near Tahoe, near a couple of
lakes. I have said yes to my daughter and her best friend (who is
schooled and whose divorced parents dont trust her) going up there
alone to hang out as long as they leave the place clean and dont get
into any kind of trouble or invite lots of people I do not know
over. I have known her best friend since she was a little girl.
> Recently, she went to visit a friend who moved away, and now wants
to invite this girl, another girl I dont know but have heard about
and this girls boyfriend, up to the cabin for a few days to one
week. I dont really trust the former friend, because I know her and
she has a history of getting into trouble, getting out of hand
rowdy, and lying about things. These kids are all in school and from
what I hear, are involved in alot of partying. I am reticent to have
minors I am legally liable for up in my cabin, because if anything
happens I am legally responsible. I do not know two of these kids at
all, and I cannot accompany them up there because I have to work. My
daughter says I do not trust her judgment and we got in a huge fight
over it last night. I told her I have no problem with her and Carley
going up, but these other kids are a wild card to me, and I dont
want things to get out of hand. My husband says NO WAY are we
allowing our place to be used as a party hangout for teena
> geres we suspect are involved in drugs and alcohol, based on what
we have heard from other sources.

What can you work out that would work for both of you? Can you go to
the cabin and stay also? Maybe stating to your dd that staying with
her one girlfriend would be great, as you already agreed, but if
there are going to be kids you do not know there you would feel
better just being in the building. You do not need to be part of
their weekend just hanging out having your own weekend.

Those who are looking for a free party would be far more hesitant to
come if they know you'll be home.

Also letting dd know it is not lack of trust in her, but caution
over these unknown kids. Talk to her about the power struggle
between most schooled kids and their parents. The need to rebel
against that authority and even though these are not the issues she
faces this rebellion often leads to very risky behavior for kids.

If you share your concerns your daughter may come up with an even
better plan that would make all of you comfortable.



I agree with Cameron that honoring our own selves is a great way to
show respect. You are not trying to thwart your daughter, but
support her in the best way possible.



Kathleen