karen
Lorrie
Children who aren't told, "no" Stop" "don't" "never" will trust you to
be honest and open with them. They will be honest and open back.
I actually think that kids who are never told not to do something and not protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be honest and open with them. They will be honest and open back.
I actually think that kids who are never told not to do something and not protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
.
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Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On Jun 8, 2007, at 3:12 AM, Lorrie wrote:
over, and I'm ignoring most of it. But let me just point out this
one: Just because you don't arbitrarily tell your kid "no" doesn't
mean you aren't protecting them from harm. I think that's the piece
you're not getting--that you can let go of authoritarian parenting
and still be totally--even more--engaged with your kids, more
involved with them, offering more guidance and support while also
offering them trust and respect.
Maybe you see people who say they are unschooling who are actually
being neglectful. I've seen that once or twice--or at least, it has
looked like that to me in one or two families I've met, though it's
hard to say with only a partial view. But that's not what anybody
here is advocating, even though you're trying very hard to read
people's responses that way.
That "arbitrary" piece is really important. I still have little kids,
6 and 3, so sometimes I do have to make a decision to say "no" to
them. It might be because I don't have the money for what they're
asking for, or, sometimes, because I feel they are in imminent danger
of harming themselves or the environment or me. But I don't say "no"
to them for my own convenience. I don't say "no" to them just because
I'm the grownup and I can. I don't say "no" to them and then toss
them back on their own resources, all alone, to find an alternative,
like I see so many parents doing ("Stop jumping on the bed and go
find something else to do." Instead, I might say, "Let's see if we
can find someplace safer for you to jump...maybe we should start
saving up for a trampoline. In the meantime, how about open gym at
the gymnastics club?"). See the difference?
My kids often look to me for guidance when they're thinking about a
new thing. "Do you think I can climb that ladder, Mom?" Eric might be
wondering if the people who own the place would allow it, or whether
I think it's safe. I help him evaluate the risk. "Well, we can ask if
it's OK," or, "Give it a try if you want, I'll spot you." He asked me
recently about why people would want to get drunk--I talked to him
about why people like it, and also about how I had never liked the
feeling of being drunk, so I never have more than one drink anymore.
In some ways, it's a lot easier to just say "No"--kids should never
jump on beds, 14-year-olds are never ever ever ready to have sex--
than to engage with kids on all the complexities of these kinds of
issues. I think it might very well be true that most 14-year-olds are
not fully ready to have sex. But saying "No, you will not do it"
shuts down dialogue between adults and children.
One of my primary goals as a parent is to preserve my relationship
with my kids as loving, open, respectful and trusting. So I make
parenting decisions based not on the question of "how can I get my
kid to comply with my request?" but "what can I do right now that
will strengthen, rather than undermine, our relationship?" I don't
have a goal that my kid won't have sex at 14 or won't ever try drugs
or won't ever come home stinking drunk from a party he wasn't
supposed to be at in the first place, although I would probably be
pretty happy if none of those things happened.
I have a goal that when if he goes to that party at the frat house
down the street with the three kegs on the front porch, he'll be able
to tell me that's where he's going. That when he's stinking drunk--if
he ever is--he'll think home is a safe place to come to recover. That
if he's thinking about having sex at 14, he'll know that I'm not
going to judge him for it, that even, if he needs to talk about that
decision, or how he feels about it once it's happened, I could be a
person he could come to. I have a goal that none of my kids will ever
say to a friend, "Oh, my god, I can't believe that just happened, my
mom will kill me if she finds out!"
It's not that "anything goes." It's that life is life, and kids are
human beings, and human beings make choices and mistakes, and I want
to stay a valued part of my kids' lives through all of it.
One of the things that attracted me to unschooling was listening to
Kelly and Sandra and others talk about their relationships with their
teenagers. "I want that," I thought, so I started hanging out and
listening to them talk about how they got there. What they did when
their kids were 6 and 9 and 12. That's my goal--to have that kind of
relationship with my human children.
Su
> Children who aren't told, "no" Stop" "don't" "never" will trust you toYou're making these completely unwarranted assumptions, over and
> be honest and open with them. They will be honest and open back.
>
> I actually think that kids who are never told not to do something
> and not protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
over, and I'm ignoring most of it. But let me just point out this
one: Just because you don't arbitrarily tell your kid "no" doesn't
mean you aren't protecting them from harm. I think that's the piece
you're not getting--that you can let go of authoritarian parenting
and still be totally--even more--engaged with your kids, more
involved with them, offering more guidance and support while also
offering them trust and respect.
Maybe you see people who say they are unschooling who are actually
being neglectful. I've seen that once or twice--or at least, it has
looked like that to me in one or two families I've met, though it's
hard to say with only a partial view. But that's not what anybody
here is advocating, even though you're trying very hard to read
people's responses that way.
That "arbitrary" piece is really important. I still have little kids,
6 and 3, so sometimes I do have to make a decision to say "no" to
them. It might be because I don't have the money for what they're
asking for, or, sometimes, because I feel they are in imminent danger
of harming themselves or the environment or me. But I don't say "no"
to them for my own convenience. I don't say "no" to them just because
I'm the grownup and I can. I don't say "no" to them and then toss
them back on their own resources, all alone, to find an alternative,
like I see so many parents doing ("Stop jumping on the bed and go
find something else to do." Instead, I might say, "Let's see if we
can find someplace safer for you to jump...maybe we should start
saving up for a trampoline. In the meantime, how about open gym at
the gymnastics club?"). See the difference?
My kids often look to me for guidance when they're thinking about a
new thing. "Do you think I can climb that ladder, Mom?" Eric might be
wondering if the people who own the place would allow it, or whether
I think it's safe. I help him evaluate the risk. "Well, we can ask if
it's OK," or, "Give it a try if you want, I'll spot you." He asked me
recently about why people would want to get drunk--I talked to him
about why people like it, and also about how I had never liked the
feeling of being drunk, so I never have more than one drink anymore.
In some ways, it's a lot easier to just say "No"--kids should never
jump on beds, 14-year-olds are never ever ever ready to have sex--
than to engage with kids on all the complexities of these kinds of
issues. I think it might very well be true that most 14-year-olds are
not fully ready to have sex. But saying "No, you will not do it"
shuts down dialogue between adults and children.
One of my primary goals as a parent is to preserve my relationship
with my kids as loving, open, respectful and trusting. So I make
parenting decisions based not on the question of "how can I get my
kid to comply with my request?" but "what can I do right now that
will strengthen, rather than undermine, our relationship?" I don't
have a goal that my kid won't have sex at 14 or won't ever try drugs
or won't ever come home stinking drunk from a party he wasn't
supposed to be at in the first place, although I would probably be
pretty happy if none of those things happened.
I have a goal that when if he goes to that party at the frat house
down the street with the three kegs on the front porch, he'll be able
to tell me that's where he's going. That when he's stinking drunk--if
he ever is--he'll think home is a safe place to come to recover. That
if he's thinking about having sex at 14, he'll know that I'm not
going to judge him for it, that even, if he needs to talk about that
decision, or how he feels about it once it's happened, I could be a
person he could come to. I have a goal that none of my kids will ever
say to a friend, "Oh, my god, I can't believe that just happened, my
mom will kill me if she finds out!"
It's not that "anything goes." It's that life is life, and kids are
human beings, and human beings make choices and mistakes, and I want
to stay a valued part of my kids' lives through all of it.
One of the things that attracted me to unschooling was listening to
Kelly and Sandra and others talk about their relationships with their
teenagers. "I want that," I thought, so I started hanging out and
listening to them talk about how they got there. What they did when
their kids were 6 and 9 and 12. That's my goal--to have that kind of
relationship with my human children.
Su
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Lorrie
<iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
this safely" and "do whatever you want". Big big big difference. My
kids have heard enough of the former to know that when I say "that's
too dangerous" it means I really can't see a way to help them do what
they want safely. They also know they can ask me to find another
resource, a second opinion, and I'll do it.
I'm willing to protect them from my own ignorance, even if it means
admitting I don't know something.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
> I actually think that kids who are never told not to do somethingand not protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
>There's a big difference between saying "lets figure out how to do
this safely" and "do whatever you want". Big big big difference. My
kids have heard enough of the former to know that when I say "that's
too dangerous" it means I really can't see a way to help them do what
they want safely. They also know they can ask me to find another
resource, a second opinion, and I'll do it.
I'm willing to protect them from my own ignorance, even if it means
admitting I don't know something.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2007 4:09:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
iamhisservant4ever@... writes:
Children who aren't told, "no" Stop" "don't" "never" will trust you to
be honest and open with them. They will be honest and open back.
I actually think that kids who are never told not to do something and not
protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
Hi...this is Karen (possibly one of a few on the list?) and I am a bit
confused from this reply...was this about my son and me trying to get him involved
and accepting of being at home and unschooling? Or my intro, lol...I'm
sorry, I just want to make sure I get the most of the message. And I'm sleepy,
having been up too many times last night, so it may well be me.
Thanks!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
iamhisservant4ever@... writes:
Children who aren't told, "no" Stop" "don't" "never" will trust you to
be honest and open with them. They will be honest and open back.
I actually think that kids who are never told not to do something and not
protected from harm, will feel unloved in the end.
Hi...this is Karen (possibly one of a few on the list?) and I am a bit
confused from this reply...was this about my son and me trying to get him involved
and accepting of being at home and unschooling? Or my intro, lol...I'm
sorry, I just want to make sure I get the most of the message. And I'm sleepy,
having been up too many times last night, so it may well be me.
Thanks!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]