Randy

We are at the point where we have to decide, keep Laura home or send
her to kindergarden. I vote for home but Kevin is wavering. We are
probably going to homeschool but something else seems to be starting
to interfer with the thought process - friends and neighbors!

How do y'all handle the comments? They have ranged from "oh, don't
do that to that poor girl" (a neighbor) to "Well, that's just pure
ego, you aren't going to do that!" (my brother)

In my intro to you all a few months back I mentioned that Laura is
very out there and I'm sure most of the neighbors think us terrible
for the freedom we allow her (within reason) and have been waiting
for the school system to get control of her. They are always trying
to help these poor guys who don't have a clue. Laura comes home full
of little things girls are supposed to be "girls are shy" "girls
don't eat much" and so on. She was even worried one day that her
thighs were too big (she's 4 year old!!!??!!)

We have gotten this from some people from her birth since we are two
guys. But when we mention homeschooling (forget about me explaining
unschooling) the rhetoric escalates. It's starting to get a bit
silly as she isn't even ready for school yet.

We live in a neighborhood where everyone on the block sends the kids
to private school. No one here is rich but they are willing to make
whatever sacrifice to help the kids so I commend them for that. But
you would think they more than anyone would be understanding of our
view of public schools. If we even mention sending Laura to PS we
get these looks like we an object of sympathy but mention
homeschooling and it can actually feel hostile.

Maybe it's just worry about two guys screwing it up or do all of you
get it from your neighbors too? I have read that some of your family
and friends don't approve but people who are practically total
strangers?

I really am curious how you deal with it but partly I am just venting
so thanks for your patience.
Randy

[email protected]

Hi, Randy! I'm brand new to this group, but not to being in alternative
education. I was Montessori, Public, homeschooled and went to college off and on
since 15 - I have always had to deal with people helping me...lol..."helping"
me...and commenting on my parents, my style, what-not...

I think the best advice is this: follow your hearts. Trust your instincts.
Do homeschooling because it feels right and revel in it :)

Your replies to such concerned people can be simple, "This is what works
best for us. Thanks for your concern." And move on to a different topic. Lather,
rinse, repeat, lol, if need be. You can also take the
let-me-help-educate-you-about-homeschooling route, by mentioning that the winner of the national
spelling bee is a homeschooler, that homeschooling is gaining popularity and
you feel it's a sound alternative to traditional education, cite websites,
books and what-not that have shown what a wonderful and well rounded approach to
learning this is. Basically, I have found then when I am quizzed by strangers
or others, I can just begin to babble on and on and they become quite
gape-mouthed, lol, and realize they started me on one of my passions and
tangents...lol...they drift off, eventually :)

It's tough to go against the grain. Do you have any meetings or groups with
other homeschoolers? I have 2 I go to regularly, and that really helps me. I
get support, like-minded parents, ideas - my kids have friends, playmates and
regular activities (we just joined a homeschoolers bowling league, yahoo!
lol!). But without these groups, I'd be quite alone. I need that one on one
support. Any chance you're in Southern CA?

Take care and good luck. I'll look forward to what the others have to say
too.

Oh...and getting some books on homeschooling, so you can quote stats and
such helps too, lol...a good bit of arsenal, so to speak!

Karen



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Su Penn

On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Randy wrote:

> How do y'all handle the comments? They have ranged from "oh, don't
> do that to that poor girl" (a neighbor) to "Well, that's just pure
> ego, you aren't going to do that!" (my brother)

One thing I have learned to do (ever since requiring medical
treatment during my first pregnancy and getting way too many "is that
safe for the baby?" kinds of reactions) is to share information on a
need-to-know basis. Last year, when Eric would have started
kindergarten, when people asked "Is he going to kindergarten?" I
would say, "Not this year!" or "He's staying home for now." I got a
lot of approval for "not rushing him into school" from people who
assumed we were just giving him extra time to mature before jumping
on the bandwagon.

Now that he's a year older, I do say that we homeschool (rarely do I
mention unschooling in any kind of casual conversation). Somehow, the
fact that we're already doing it and they can see that Eric isn't
freakish in any obvious way makes it more palatable to people. People
seem less willing to criticize what you're actually doing than what
you're only thinking about doing.

I have even fairly close friends to whom I haven't spoken much about
the details of unschooling; one friend likes to ask me how
kindergarten has been going, and I say, "Well, Eric and I are both
enjoying ourselves, and he's learning a lot!" "How's his reading
coming along?" "Eric and I are both completely satisfied with his
progress! He's doing great!" "Is it hard to find the time?" "I've
always spent a lot of time with him, so it's not too different."

From more experienced unschoolers and homeschoolers, I learned to
answer criticism like, "you'll never be able to do that for high
school!" by saying, "Well, we'll keep doing it as long as it works
well for all of us." Which has the advantage of being true.

If people push, repeating yourself until they figure out you don't
want to talk about it, or obviously changing the subject, is a great
strategy.

It sometimes seems to me that people take our decision to homeschool
as a criticism of their decision not to. I am carefully diplomatic
when people ask why we homeschool; I'll say something vague like,
"Any reason you've ever heard for homeschooling applies to us
somewhat," or, "It seems like the best thing for me and Eric." I
don't go into a rant about the institutional nature of schools and
how forcibly institutionalized people always form dysfunctional
societies; I don't tell my pet school horror stories; I don't say, "I
am greedy to be with my kids and don't want to be away from them for
so many hours," given that I'm often talking to a woman whose
children are in school plus aftercare fifty hours a week. I make my
answer personal and about us, hoping to deflect any defensiveness
they might be feeling.

> Laura comes home full
> of little things girls are supposed to be "girls are shy" "girls
> don't eat much" and so on. She was even worried one day that her
> thighs were too big (she's 4 year old!!!??!!)

Getting selective about who you and your kids spend time with helps.
It can be hard to find perfect friend-families in real life, but we
have pulled away from the most toxic ones.

Su

unschooling mom of Eric, 6, and Carl, 3

[email protected]

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy <rgregory@...>

We are at the point where we have to decide, keep Laura home or send
her to kindergarden. I vote for home but Kevin is wavering. We are
probably going to homeschool but something else seems to be starting
to interfer with the thought process - friends and neighbors!

How do y'all handle the comments? They have ranged from "oh, don't
do that to that poor girl" (a neighbor) to "Well, that's just pure
ego, you aren't going to do that!" (my brother)

-=-=-=-=-

First, why should they have *any* say in how you educate your daughter?

But to their specifics:

Ask them "Why?"---Why are they calling her a "poor girl" <g> Is that
what they think? I'd stay away from them! <g>

I would turn it around and ask why they think school is better. I bet
they won't have a smart answer. More of the same ol' same ol'---but if
you've done enough research to have decided on this path, you should
have answers to their questions/concerns because you have had the same
ones. But you really don't have to answer to them at all! Just say,
"We're going to try this for a while. We may change our minds later.
Please pass the bean dip!"

I'd tell your brother to kiss my butt. <bwg>

-=-=-=-

We have gotten this from some people from her birth since we are two
guys. But when we mention homeschooling (forget about me explaining
unschooling) the rhetoric escalates. It's starting to get a bit
silly as she isn't even ready for school yet.

-=-=-

I wouldn't metion unschooling at all. First, I'd just say that I feel
she's too young to go ANYwhere right now.

-=-=-=-=-

We live in a neighborhood where everyone on the block sends the kids
to private school. No one here is rich but they are willing to make
whatever sacrifice to help the kids so I commend them for that. But
you would think they more than anyone would be understanding of our
view of public schools. If we even mention sending Laura to PS we
get these looks like we an object of sympathy but mention
homeschooling and it can actually feel hostile.

-=-=-=-=

Take it from a private school grad who sent her son to the same private
shcool: they are BIGGER critics!

They just think *public schools* are bad. Private schools are the
*best* choice! There's no way *you*, a parent, could provide what the
private school can offer.

I beg to differ, but I've been there and have heard it all before!

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe it's just worry about two guys screwing it up or do all of you
get it from your neighbors too? I have read that some of your family
and friends don't approve but people who are practically total
strangers?

-=-=-=-=

More from strangers than from friends and family would wouldn't DARE
crosme! <G> But I don't have to tell teh strangers any more than I tell
friends and family! <g>

-=-=-=-=-

I really am curious how you deal with it but partly I am just venting
so thanks for your patience.

-=-=-=-

You'll be fine. You have plenty of time to steel yourselves for the BIG
stuff!

Just take it one day at a time. You don't need to explain any thing to
anyone, really!

~Kelly


________________________________________________________________________
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from AOL at AOL.com.

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/7/2007 12:01:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
supenn@... writes:

It sometimes seems to me that people take our decision to homeschool
as a criticism of their decision not to.


ah, yes! i see the same and feel the same sensations in regard to my choice
to homebirth and extend nurse...or nurse at all. very apt! thanks for that
comment!



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
>>
> Now that he's a year older, I do say that we homeschool (rarely do
>I
> mention unschooling in any kind of casual conversation). Somehow,
>the
> fact that we're already doing it and they can see that Eric isn't
> freakish in any obvious way makes it more palatable to people.
>People
> seem less willing to criticize what you're actually doing than what
> you're only thinking about doing.

That's what we did, sort of - we told people we 'planned to
homeschool' when DS was really little - not much they could say about
it when he was 2 or 3 - school wasn't an issue at that point. When he
approached 5 and we said "We plan to homeschool", it was kind of
casual and since we were out and about and he was bouncing merrily
around, it was fine. Also in the mix, state law allows for a 'waiver'
to keep kids home an extra year or two before compulsory attendance
(if you plan to send your kids to school but want to give them some
extra time, you can legally keep them home until they are turning 7).
So, 5 and 6 are somewhat optional, though common. By the time he got
to age 7, we were starting to use "homeschooling" and "unschooling"
somewhat interchangeably, depending on context. To the lady cutting
his hair "we homeschool"; to my folks (and the ILs) "we're going to an
unschooling conference this weekend". By the time we started
saying "we unschool" (and DS is picking up on saying "we unschool"
OR "we homeschool" depending on who asks) over the last couple of
years, DS was obviously a bright, happy, curious, energetic, healthy
kid so there wasn't much to argue with. Both sets of family (mine and
ILs) are firmly on board with whatever it is we're doing - they may
not understand it totally but they can see the results - a happy,
growing, curious, confident kid who is interested and interesting. My
dad has even taken to sending the random articles that have appeared
in various newspapers about unschooling - after reading one such
article he said "this sounds like what you are doing. looks pretty
interesting." and we went on to a long discussion about what he sees
happening with his other grandkids and school and schedules and
testing and all like that (all the grandkids in question are between
ages 6 and 10, DS is 9).

--Deb

Sylvia Toyama

Maybe it's just worry about two guys screwing it up or do all of you
get it from your neighbors too? I have read that some of your family
and friends don't approve but people who are practically total
strangers?

I really am curious how you deal with it but partly I am just venting
so thanks for your patience.
Randy


*****
Oh, total strangers, casual acquaintances, relatives, inlaws -- everyone feels they have a right to tell any parent outside the mainstream how to raise their kids. It actually starts the moment a woman is pregnant -- complete strangers will offer all sorts of unsolicited advice (almost always bad) and horror stories of what to expect at each stage of parenthood. People seem to delight in frightening new parents -- for those of us outside the mainstream, it just never seem to end.

The secret is to exude confidence -- be upbeat, expectant of good. Usually when people see you aren't impressed or frightened by their tales of woe, they give up and leave you alone. Or you could just anwer every statement they make with 'why?' Let them explain why they believe what they do. Don't let them put on the defensive. When you do what's right for you, in your heart, what anyone else thinks doesn't matter. Did you let them tell you should be straight? Or that it's wrong to live with your partner? Or that it's wrong for two men to raise a child together? You've already done lots of hard stuff, why let them bother you now?

Sylvia


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/7/2007 1:15:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
sylgt04@... writes:

The secret is to exude confidence -- be upbeat, expectant of good. Usually
when people see you aren't impressed or frightened by their tales of woe,
they give up and leave you alone. Or you could just anwer every statement they
make with 'why?' Let them explain why they believe what they do. Don't let
them put on the defensive. When you do what's right for you, in your heart,
what anyone else thinks doesn't matter. Did you let them tell you should be
straight? Or that it's wrong to live with your partner? Or that it's wrong
for two men to raise a child together? You've already done lots of hard stuff,
why let them bother you now?

Sylvia



Sylvia, what excellent advice!

I'm learning so much from this group's discussions!

K.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris

--- In [email protected], "Randy" <rgregory@...>
wrote:
>
> We have gotten this from some people from her birth since we are
two
> guys. But when we mention homeschooling (forget about me
explaining
> unschooling) the rhetoric escalates. It's starting to get a bit
> silly as she isn't even ready for school yet.
I
Randy,

We took our 7 y/o son out of first grade in Nov. to homeschool and
have now made the move to unschooling. We live in a district that is
considered to be the "best" in our state but, of course, you have to
ask, "best" compared to what! So I understand several of the
reactions you are up against. I often find that people are busy
defending their own choice to send their kids to school vs. actually
asking about home schooling. I usually tell people that we home
school and leave it at that. If people seem genuinely curious then
I'm willing to divulge more but mostly I've decided not to invite
criticism or comments that I don't want. And I generally don't use
the word unschooling--I use some mumbo jumbo about child-led
learning when people ask about curriculum. Again, if I get into a
conversation that is truly motivated by interest, then I'm willing
to start talking unschooling and what I've learned about how people
learn.

I also generally give vague reasons why we made this choice--"the
mainstream classroom wasnt' a good fit for our child," "regular
schooling wasn't a good choice for our family," etc. As many people,
I have a litany of detailed complaints about what made school not
work for our family, but I save those for the genuinely interested.

I feel thrilled with our decision so it's not a matter of protecting
my position lest it crumble. I just feel like it's not people's
business to comment on it and so I choose to protect my self and my
kids from what I often find are insensitive and uneducated
(regarding homeshooling) comments. I'm willing to "educate" those
who want to know but it's wasted breath when all the other person
wants to believe is that you are wrong.
>
> Maybe it's just worry about two guys screwing it up or do all of
you
> get it from your neighbors too? I have read that some of your
family
> and friends don't approve but people who are practically total
> strangers?
>
And perhaps you are dealing with a double whammy since you are a
single sex couple and now are considering home schooling. It is hard
to step off the mainstream path, as you well know. I often wonder
exactly when I stepped off the path! I think about getting one of
those bumper stickers that says, "Why be normal?" I've seen people
put them on upside down.

It has been helpful for me to find like-minded souls thru local
homeschooling groups. When I can hang and converse with them, I am
reminded that we're really not so weird!

Hang in there! If you do decide to home school/unschool, I think
you'll find it joyful despite those opinions around you! We sure
have.

Chris

Cameron Parham

Randy...I have found that I used to really enjoy others' input to my parenting, because I am...so conscious of my human limits. I am a single parent and I just felt that I could collect others' opinions and then choose what felt right. Also, I am interested in being a good listener and making people feel heard. That sounds good but I inadvertently gave the impression that I was totally insecure about how to parent. There is a big difference between being open/respectful to hearing others opinions and being unsure of one's own! So I wonder if maybe you seem unsure to the neighbors? I have come to believe in a confident but close-mouthed approach: "We homeschool because we love to be together, and it works well for us." No apparent waffling. No apologies, no acting like they have any right to question or be concerned, just an opaque smile. What you alluded to about Laura's mind-pollution (are her thighs too big!!!) is only the tip of the iceberg. By the way,
compulsory education doesn't start until age 7 in Montana. What is the age for yor state? What's the rush? I am thinking of a Peanuts cartoon in our paper last week. In it, Charlie Brown asks his little sister Sally how she gets all A's in school. Her answer is "I am on time, I go where I am told, I do what I am told, and I color in the lines." Well, of course that is close to true. Is that what will be best for Laura? Oops, let me just fall off my soapbox! LOL Cameron


----- Original Message ----
From: Randy <rgregory@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 11:52:16 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How do you handle it?

We are at the point where we have to decide, keep Laura home or send
her to kindergarden. I vote for home but Kevin is wavering. We are
probably going to homeschool but something else seems to be starting
to interfer with the thought process - friends and neighbors!

How do y'all handle the comments? They have ranged from "oh, don't
do that to that poor girl" (a neighbor) to "Well, that's just pure
ego, you aren't going to do that!" (my brother)

In my intro to you all a few months back I mentioned that Laura is
very out there and I'm sure most of the neighbors think us terrible
for the freedom we allow her (within reason) and have been waiting
for the school system to get control of her. They are always trying
to help these poor guys who don't have a clue. Laura comes home full
of little things girls are supposed to be "girls are shy" "girls
don't eat much" and so on. She was even worried one day that her
thighs were too big (she's 4 year old!!!??!!)

We have gotten this from some people from her birth since we are two
guys. But when we mention homeschooling (forget about me explaining
unschooling) the rhetoric escalates. It's starting to get a bit
silly as she isn't even ready for school yet.

We live in a neighborhood where everyone on the block sends the kids
to private school. No one here is rich but they are willing to make
whatever sacrifice to help the kids so I commend them for that. But
you would think they more than anyone would be understanding of our
view of public schools. If we even mention sending Laura to PS we
get these looks like we an object of sympathy but mention
homeschooling and it can actually feel hostile.

Maybe it's just worry about two guys screwing it up or do all of you
get it from your neighbors too? I have read that some of your family
and friends don't approve but people who are practically total
strangers?

I really am curious how you deal with it but partly I am just venting
so thanks for your patience.
Randy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]