Deb Rogers

I need to offer a different view on this one. I have
insulin resistance and when I have sugary stuff I have
insulin spikes which leads to lows and create in my
system feelings very similar to addiction feelings - I
feel almost compelled to eat more chocolate - my body
is craving the high is gets - especially if I am
depressed.

I have to be very careful about what sweets I bring
home - I mostly bake our goodies because I can add
lots of protein and fiber to control the blood sugar
high and it's resultant cravings.

It's not about fear for me at all - it's about
avoiding diabetes and the lows that come after eating
these 'junk' foods.

Blessings,
Deb

"It used to be I wouldn't let myself have chocolate in
the house
because I knew I'd eat the whole bag...Deprivation
makes for desperation."

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine



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Fetteroll

On May 17, 2007, at 2:47 PM, Deb Rogers wrote:

> It's not about fear for me at all - it's about
> avoiding diabetes and the lows that come after eating
> these 'junk' foods.

I'm not sure how that relates to opening the world to kids? Are you
saying you need to keep snack foods out of the house because you have
a problem with them?

(If so, I'm sure there are others on the list with similar problems
who can offer what they've done to create a win-win for themselves
and their children.)

What you've presented is a solution that you're saying is the only
possible one. What we try to do is help people see beyond a single
solution.

But I'm not sure what kid problem you're presenting the solution for.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
wrote:
>
>
> On May 17, 2007, at 2:47 PM, Deb Rogers wrote:
>
> > It's not about fear for me at all - it's about
> > avoiding diabetes and the lows that come after eating
> > these 'junk' foods.
>
> I'm not sure how that relates to opening the world to kids? Are
>you
> saying you need to keep snack foods out of the house because you
>have
> a problem with them?
>
> (If so, I'm sure there are others on the list with similar
>problems
> who can offer what they've done to create a win-win for
>themselves
> and their children.)
>
As a recently diagnosed type 2 diabetic, I'll go ahead and chime in.
A little background: no diabetes anywhere in my background as far as
I know (aside from my grandma's steroid induced diabetes - steroids
throw blood sugar totally out of whack - first thing my dr said when
she looked at my initial blood test results, which were done shortly
after I recovered from pneumonia, was "were you on steroids?" We now
resume regular programming lol)...

Anyhow, I *could* have said "Okay, we *have to* not have ice cream,
cookies, holiday candy, etc in the house anymore" - that would have
gone over like a lead balloon. Not to mention that a plate of
regular pasta or a baked potato has just as much impact on blood
sugar highs/lows as chocolate chip cookies, would we then need to
ban -all- carbs? DS has never been regulated in what he eats (he's
almost 9). As a result, he's the least likely to eat more than he
needs in any regard (whether sweets or pasta or chips or whatever).
Sometimes, he eats lots of something for a time - and that's exactly
what it is "for a time". He's got a much healthier outlook toward
food than either of us grownups.

What we have chosen to do is to explain my situation to him (as well
as DH's hypertension - he can somewhat control it through
diet/exercise but there's also a genetic component in it as well),
lots of discussion, communication, questions/answers, etc. If he's
eating something (cookie, chips, even raisins or whatever) and
offers me some, I may have a little or I may say "That's not a good
choice for me right now" - I can *choose* to eat whatever I want, I
try to make the best *choice* I can at the time (for those with a
Bible bent, check out Paul's "everything is lawful, not everything
is profitable"). That is, IMO, the key - not whether we ban this or
that thing but rather modeling making good choices and providing
information and feedback - for instance "I've noticed that when you
haven't eaten some protein in a long while, you seem to get
frustrated more" or "we're using brown rice in this because it has
more minerals and protein than that quick white rice". We have a
neat (colorful, fun) chart in the kitchen that lists vegetarian
sources of all sorts of nutrients (not just vitamin C and protein
but also potassium, trace minerals, vitamin K, etc). We put it there
to free up chalkboard space because DS wanted lists of proteins,
potassium rich foods, and other stuff - the lists were taking over
the chalkboard. DS often refers to it either to check out what we're
having for dinner (for instance) or to get ideas for what he'd like
to eat. DH and I have also chosen to be mostly meatless (still like
cheeses and sushi) but we also make sure to have hot dogs on hand
because DS likes them. He's fit, healthy, and has a positive
relationship to foods of all sorts - there's no "Bad" food
and "Good" food, just "food", no psychological ties to "shoulds"
and "shouldn'ts" and guilts and all that. "good" feed is that which
feeds a need at the time. "bad" food is that which is not the best
choice at the time - for me, for example, bananas are a "bad" food
most of the time because I've found they do awful things to my blood
sugar readings. Should we ban bananas? No - they are a great
potassium source which is important in keeping DH's blood pressure
regulated.

Balance, communication, *choice*

--Deb

Deb Rogers

No, not offering a solution. Simply pointing out that
having these type of foods at home and available is
not an option for all of us.

Yes, I am saying that I mostly keep these foods out of
the house because I can not have them around. Just as
some who is highly allergic to peanuts would not be
safe with peanut laced products in their home. My kids
actually honor and respect this need I have to take
care of my body. We bake and create lots of goodies
and there get candy and other junk foods when out and
about.

I was wanting to educate that not all of us can have
an open door policy in our homes when it comes to
'junk' foods due to our own health reasons. Not so
much a parenting solution as letting ya'll know that
sometimes this is not an option.

Blessings,
Deb

> It's not about fear for me at all - it's about
> avoiding diabetes and the lows that come after
eating
> these 'junk' foods.

I'm not sure how that relates to opening the world to
kids? Are you
saying you need to keep snack foods out of the house
because you have
a problem with them?

(If so, I'm sure there are others on the list with
similar problems
who can offer what they've done to create a win-win
for themselves
and their children.)

What you've presented is a solution that you're saying
is the only
possible one. What we try to do is help people see
beyond a single
solution.

But I'm not sure what kid problem you're presenting
the solution for.

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine



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Ren Allen

~~
I was wanting to educate that not all of us can have
an open door policy in our homes when it comes to
'junk' foods due to our own health reasons. ~~


We are aware that people deal with food allergies, health issues and
other challenges. What you seem to be saying though , is that due to
YOUR health issues, everyone in the family has to live a certain way.
That seems unfair and not exactly open to creative problem solving.

I eat mostly vegetarian (seafood 2-3 times per year only) but if MY
preferences were more important than other household members choices,
we wouldn't have deli meat in the fridge and other meat choices
available. I believe each person should have choice about their
diet....children or adult. I also believe that there are ways to honor
special challenges without limiting or controlling other people.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Robin Bentley

> No, not offering a solution. Simply pointing out that
> having these type of foods at home and available is
> not an option for all of us.

Well, truthfully, not an option *you* want to choose for yourself.
But you are making those same choices on your family's behalf.
>
> Yes, I am saying that I mostly keep these foods out of
> the house because I can not have them around.

But don't you have a choice to eat them or not? They don't just jump
into your mouth willy-nilly <g>. It may be easier not to have them
in your house because you can't say no to them. That's your issue,
not theirs.

Just as
> some who is highly allergic to peanuts would not be
> safe with peanut laced products in their home. My kids
> actually honor and respect this need I have to take
> care of my body. We bake and create lots of goodies
> and there get candy and other junk foods when out and
> about.

Allergy to peanuts can be a life-and-death-immediately situation.
Are you that unsafe with these foods you have banned from your home?
I have no idea if they are or not.

I think it's great that your kids honor your need to take care of
your body. It's good modeling to show them how, especially in a
positive way. You probably talk about the reasons you choose to eat
like you do and that's good information for them, too. But are they
diabetic? Do they have to follow the same diet? They aren't forcing
you to eat those things that will make you ill, are they?
>
> I was wanting to educate that not all of us can have
> an open door policy in our homes when it comes to
> 'junk' foods due to our own health reasons. Not so
> much a parenting solution as letting ya'll know that
> sometimes this is not an option.

It is *always* a choice, however. You choose not to eat certain
foods because it makes you ill, feel bad, is risky for *your* body.
Even then, you do make a choice to eat that way. No outside force is
making you do so.

If you talk about these things with your kids, they'll come to
understand your reasoning. However, they may make other choices, and
in that, you can honor and respect their need to listen to their own
bodies and make choices based on that. They have a right to find out
those things for themselves, with your loving, accepting guidance.
But not your judgment.

I recall being present when one mom expressed her happiness that her
child decided not to go to Wendy's. It wasn't because she was happy
that he had free choice and he was listening to his body, but more
because he had listened to her tell him that the food there wasn't
particularly good for him (and that she was obviously doing her job
as a mom). He was trying to please her, not choosing freely, it
seemed to me. And while wanting to please someone you love is a good
thing, it shouldn't be done out of fear of condemnation if you don't.

So, part of an RU life is giving choices, giving information (and it
probably should be personal information, because "conventional
wisdom" changes all the time <g>), providing an array of things
(whether that is food, tv, computer games, playing at the park, and
on and on), then accepting your children's choices as just as valid
for them as your choices are for you. When you support them in
making their *own* informed choices, the trust between parent and
child grows. And it's all about relationships, after all.

Robin ORB

Deb Rogers

~~
I was wanting to educate that not all of us can have
an open door policy in our homes when it comes to
'junk' foods due to our own health reasons. ~~

We are aware that people deal with food allergies,
health issues and
other challenges. What you seem to be saying though ,
is that due to
YOUR health issues, everyone in the family has to live
a certain way.
That seems unfair and not exactly open to creative
problem solving.
.............

To a certain degree you are correct. But I don't think
that's a bad thing. My kids know this stuff is
available and have it often. My kids also know about
my issues and want to help create a safe environment
for us all.

I fully grasp the concept of freedom. However, I also
see that sometimes one persons needs must be met by
others not bringing things into a home. I know of a
gal who is highly, highly sensitive to perfumes. If
her family wore perfume she would develop a completely
debilitating migraine so they have a perfume free
home. Yes, this means that others do not have the
freedom to wear perfume while living in that home. But
I think sometimes these concessions are necessary in a
family if someone has a real need.

If my situation was one where I just didn't like
'junk' food and so I wouldn't bring it home - that
would be controlling and unreasonable. Same if I was
on a diet and just didn't want the temptation around -
controlling and unreasonable. I'm sorry to have come
across in that manner.

And Happy Birthday!

Blessings,
Deb

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine


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Deb Rogers

<<<<<<<<<<<<I think it's great that your kids honor
your need to take care of
your body. It's good modeling to show them how,
especially in a
positive way. You probably talk about the reasons you
choose to eat
like you do and that's good information for them, too.
But are they
diabetic? Do they have to follow the same diet? They
aren't forcing
you to eat those things that will make you ill, are
they?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I should clarify what I mean when I say ‘junk’ foods –
here I’m talking about things like Hostess snacks,
packaged cookies and the like. I can see that I wasn’t
clear and I apologize. No, my children do not follow
my diet. For example, if we were at the store eating
stuff for a picnic and they wanted Twinkies a single
serving package would work – it goes to the picnic and
there is none here.

Currently at home we’ve got pie, marshmallows, jello,
pudding, and chips and soda. For whatever reason my
system reacts very addictively to those bread type
products and not these others. In the end, we eat lots
of cookies and such – we make our own. And if they
want them while we are out and about that is fine.


<<<<<<<<If you talk about these things with your kids,
they'll come to
understand your reasoning. However, they may make
other choices, and
in that, you can honor and respect their need to
listen to their own
bodies and make choices based on that. They have a
right to find out
those things for themselves, with your loving,
accepting guidance.
But not your judgment.>>>>>>>

We do talk about these things and they constantly make
choices differently than I would make for them. That
is not at issue here.

>>>>>>>>>>>> When you support them in
making their *own* informed choices, the trust between
parent and
child grows. And it's all about relationships, after
all.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I actually agree with you. And work on this daily.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Blessings,
Deb


"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine



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Meredith

--- In [email protected], Deb Rogers <nwdeb@...>
wrote:
>> I know of a
> gal who is highly, highly sensitive to perfumes. If
> her family wore perfume she would develop a completely
> debilitating migraine so they have a perfume free
> home. Yes, this means that others do not have the
> freedom to wear perfume while living in that home.

The fumes from spray paint give me a migraine. My stepson and I have
figured out ways for him to paint that don't effect me so badly -
painting away from the house, or making a point to close all the
doors and windows first if he's doing it on the porch. For that
matter, I've gotten migraines off some of his body products, so
we've looked for non-aerosol alternatives and talked about how much
he can use without triggering one. There are some products he saves
for dates or sleepovers, too. He doesn't have to give them up
completely.

If your friend's family members *want* to wear scents, perhaps they
can explore essential oils. I find those are much less likely to
trigger a migraine in general, although there are specific scents I
have to be careful of, including some common flavorings.

> I think sometimes these concessions are necessary in a
> family if someone has a real need.

I find it more helpful to move away from the idea of "concessions"
to looking for creative ways to meet everyone's needs and wants -
although not always simultaneously! Health issues don't *have* to be
a barricade.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Fetteroll

On May 19, 2007, at 10:47 AM, Deb Rogers wrote:

> No, not offering a solution. Simply pointing out that
> having these type of foods at home and available is
> not an option for all of us.

I understand.

Actually what I was discussing was an entirely different problem. One
fear people have when they picture giving their children free access
to food is that they fear that they (the adults) can't be trusted
with snacky foods. They may even fear that snack foods is a natural
human weakness and once given free access, then kids will eat nothing
else.

So the reasoning is: I fear this will happen (I'll eat too much),
therefore I must impose this solution (don't allow it in the house).
I don't have another option.

Rather than unschooling rules about how to run your home, we try to
help people understand the principles by showing how they look in a
typical unschooling home. The principle is giving kids freedom to
choose. How that looks in practice someone's home will be different
from home to home. If that makes sense.

I think it's great that your kids are willing to help. It shows they
feel full that they can make life a little more difficult for
themselves to help someone else.

But someone asking someone else to make a sacrifice with the
expectation that they'll do it so the first someone's life can be
easier isn't a good place to begin with kids.

It's great if they think of it on their own and do it. It's great if
the parent knows that the kids feel perfectly free to say "No, let's
figure something else out."

But it doesn't help anyone towards more respectful relationships to
offer "we don't keep snacks in the house because mom has a problem
with them" as a respectful parenting solution to a problem.

Brainstorming creative solutions is respectful. Mom being willing to
try various solutions is respectful. But it isn't respectful to say
this is the way it needs to be because of Mom's health problems. I
don't know if I'm making the distinction between them clear or not. :-/

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]