Melissa

and quite quick since the girls are needing me soon.
Just a 'how would you handle this' question.

Avari is 16 months old, and has the greatest attraction to dirt I've ever seen in a child. She's
the kind of kid who has five minutes in the backyard and you could seriously write 'wash me'
on her forehead. She did, in fact, just have a rash and an infection, in her belly button from
being dirty and then fiddling with her button. She dislikes having her face and hands washed,
and we've tried changing every factor, temp of water, type of cloth, etc. So, what usually
happens is that when we're walking out of the house, I'll wash her face really quick, she
protests but once I'm done she's done protesting. I'm sad that I'm doing something she
would have to protest, but then again, we've just finished clearing up an infection. She
doesn't kick and scream, but does wimper a bit while I'm washing. If she's quite chipper, we
can play the spitting game, she spits the entire time I'm washing, and about 50% of the time
she's okay with that.

So, would you guys push the washing or just face all the dirty stares and assumptions that
I'm just another crunchy granola mom who's neglecting her children?

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/1/2007 3:18:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
autismhelp@... writes:


So, would you guys push the washing or just face all the dirty stares and
assumptions that
I'm just another crunchy granola mom who's neglecting her children?


I personally would push the washing.. She will get use to it.. There are
lots of germs in this world..and keep clean is important.. Just not obsessive :)
Sandy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>> So, would you guys push the washing or just face all the dirty
stares and assumptions that
> I'm just another crunchy granola mom who's neglecting her children?

I could make a laundry list of things I get long-nosed looks for and
even that sweet-sounding bit of Southern nastiness: "well, bless your
heart." Twice I've had people pull their children behind them as I
passed - and I don't even have any tatoos!

If your dd is comfortable with the dirt and it *doesn't* seem to be
impacting her health, I'd leave it. If someone is going to take
offense at it, well at least you know not to invite them over for
dinner. OTOH, there may be another mom out there who sighs in relief
to see another messy kid just like hers.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

stc

My daughter, now 20 months, started disliking face-washing a few months ago
as well. Every time I go to wash her face, I show her the cloth first, and
ask her "May I please wash your face?" Then gently reach out. If she
deflects me or says no, I wait a moment, then ask again. Sometimes she'll
continue to refuse and I'll try again ten minutes later. Sometimes she'll
take the cloth and want to do it
herself, and letting her do this a lot was important as we developed
this interaction.
A lot of the time she happily presents her face and hands to be wiped when
asked.

If I forget, get impatient, or there's danger to her that I have to
avert by cleaning her off immediately (rare),
she will automatically resist.

So let us know, how are you approaching the washing-off?
I realize you may already be trying such approaches and she just plain
doesn't want it under any circumstances,
of course, but it would help to know exactly how you go about it.

-Tom C.

On 3/1/07, Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
>
> and quite quick since the girls are needing me soon.
> Just a 'how would you handle this' question.
>
> Avari is 16 months old, and has the greatest attraction to dirt I've ever
> seen in a child. She's
> the kind of kid who has five minutes in the backyard and you could
> seriously write 'wash me'
> on her forehead. She did, in fact, just have a rash and an infection, in
> her belly button from
> being dirty and then fiddling with her button. She dislikes having her
> face and hands washed,
> and we've tried changing every factor, temp of water, type of cloth, etc.
> So, what usually
> happens is that when we're walking out of the house, I'll wash her face
> really quick, she
> protests but once I'm done she's done protesting. I'm sad that I'm doing
> something she
> would have to protest, but then again, we've just finished clearing up an
> infection. She
> doesn't kick and scream, but does wimper a bit while I'm washing. If she's
> quite chipper, we
> can play the spitting game, she spits the entire time I'm washing, and
> about 50% of the time
> she's okay with that.
>
> So, would you guys push the washing or just face all the dirty stares and
> assumptions that
> I'm just another crunchy granola mom who's neglecting her children?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I used to make a game of it. I would hold the washcloth sort of like a puppet and use a growly voice to say, "I am the face monster and I am going to kiss you all over you face. I will eat the dirt!" and then make "monster chewing" sounds. (This is so hard to describe in print! LOL) Sometimes my little one would pretend to get away and I would chase her/him, saying "Let me eat your face! Rrrrrrr!" and s/he would giggle and run.

Once I made it fun, I was able to clean a face easily. It helps if the washcloth is warm. Even a little warmer than you think because by the time you "catch" them, it has cooled a bit.

It was a much better plan than the one my mom and g'ma had. They would use the kitchen sponge or their thumb and some spit. Ewwwww!

Elissa Jill
OTN:
Stitch of the Day Swatch
silk/wool blend tie front mini sweater
http://mystikmusings.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~If your dd is comfortable with the dirt and it *doesn't* seem to be
impacting her health, I'd leave it. ~~

I totally agree.

You could also leave a box of wipes out where she can reach it. Kids
seem to adore wiping anything and everything in sight...maybe she'll
get her face once in a while.:)

There are other ways to get kids clean when it really matters
too....water play in the sink, tub crayons/paint, water fights,
swimming etc...

Make it a game and her face will probably get clean. Otherwise, I'd
just let it go.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Katharine Wise

This reminded me of something that my middle son loved (but not my youngest). I would play that the washcloth was an animal (a sea otter, actually) that wanted to eat the yummy food, dirt, whatever off his face and make it chatter the whole time thanking him for the yummy food. We usually did this with plain square washcloths, but also had a sea duck and sea elephant:-) that were bath-puppets.

Katharine

----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>


Make it a game and her face will probably get clean. Otherwise, I'd

just let it go.












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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

Well, for all who have mentioned safety and health, all signs point to it being a health
issue, because of the rash and specifically an oozing pusslike infection in her belly button
from scratching around in there. So yeah, it's a concern there.

To be honest, what we have now is usually washing in a hurry to get out of the home,
ignoring the dirt until it's time to leave. what we usually do specifically is to have a warm
wet washcloth, present it while gently talking about dirt, and ask if she wants to blow or
spit while we're washing. That's the most effective quick wash. About 50% of the time
she'll spit while we quickly and gently wipe. The rest of the time she turns her face away,
and "ehhhh, ehhh!"

Now, if we have plenty of time, she will wash her own hands, but the process is long. She
must drag the stool to the sink herself (she's sixteen months old and even the little tykes
stool is heavy and onerous) Then the water has to run for ten to fifteen minutes while she
watches it. Then she'll introduce one finger at a time into the stream, then splash all over
creation. Eventually, after an additional five minutes or so, she'll be clean enough that I'm
okay with it. However, at no point does face washing even approach the joy with which she
washes her hands (or wipes her bottom, but that's a whole 'nother post lol!)

Anyway, I think we'll just focus on clean hands and stomach, and leave the face for
bathtime. She's usually okay sitting in the bath, we still can't wash her face, but when we
pull her out of the tub she'll wipe her face with the towel. I'm not sure why, it's never wet,
but there it is.

Thanks all, some of her sensory issues already are very intense, she can't handle uneven
socks, or if her elastic bottom pants are uneven. She has a VERY heavy blanket that she
has to have to sleep under, and will only wear brushed cotton, or really old tshirts of her
brothers. She just seems so young for that, even Breanna wasn't that intense at such a
young age!

--- In [email protected], stc <ensign.tom@...> wrote:>
> If I forget, get impatient, or there's danger to her that I have to
> avert by cleaning her off immediately (rare),
> she will automatically resist.
>
> So let us know, how are you approaching the washing-off?

Melissa

I personally would LOVE to see another dirty child at the grocery store. People are so up in
arms around here it makes me sick. People seem to have children as a status symbol, and
dress them like little dolls to go ANYWHERE. There are girls at the mall playland, maybe three
years old, at the most, with permed hair. The moms were talking about how important it was
to have controlled curl because it looks better than long strands of straight hair. Blech.

And here are my kids, still in the dirt from our backyard, dried paint streaks from their latest
artwork, Sam's funky mohawk and Rachels self inflicted hair cut...we are just a circus show to
the people around here. I could go on and on, but most of it probably seems normal to you
guys.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...>
wrote:
OTOH, there may be another mom out there who sighs in relief
> to see another messy kid just like hers.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

I would never push the washing and violate my kid's body's integrity unless it was truly a hazard and not just fear about dirt and germs.
Alex
(Who lives in a farm and is used to dirt and the kids being dirty. - today my 4 yo ds had a bath after probably 3-4 weeks.He still smelled good but showed signs of dirt in his feet)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Mar 1, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Melissa wrote:

> Avari is 16 months old, and has the greatest attraction to dirt
> I've ever seen in a child. She's
> the kind of kid who has five minutes in the backyard and you could
> seriously write 'wash me'
> on her forehead.

My 22 year old was like this - and now she STILL plays in the mud.
She's does ceramics.

What saved us was our warm weather - I could give her the garden hose
to play with and she'd make a huge muddy mess, but she'd let us hose
her off. We also had lots of really fun stuff to do in the bathtub.

-pam

Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:42 PM, Melissa wrote:

> I personally would LOVE to see another dirty child at the grocery
> store.

My kids were often really grubby, when they were little. I used to
notice the looks and I'd smile and say, "She's had a GREAT day today,
as you can see."

-pam
Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**So, what usually happens is that when we're walking out of the house, I'll
wash her face really quick, she protests but once I'm done she's done
protesting. I'm sad that I'm doing something she would have to protest, but then
again, we've just finished clearing up an infection.**

So why are you worrying about washing her face? Surely she wasn't stuffing
her little face into her belly button, was she? :-D

If it were me (and it has been, in the past) I'd concentrate on the hands
more than the face. Keeping nails trimmed so they don't make scratches and
reasonably clean. For my reluctant washer that meant LOTS of setting up water to
play in (and coincidentally a cleaner kitchen floor from all the water splashed
on it that had to be wiped up). Perhaps she'll aquiesce to a hand cleaning on
her way out the door if she understands that means she'll be able to touch
things in the store?

If she doesn't have a compromised immune system dirt is a good thing. There's
scientific speculation that some of the rise in childhood asthma is due to
too much cleanliness - that human immune systems need something to fight, if
there aren't real enemies appearing regularly the system starts attacking it's
owner.

Learn to hear the sweet grandmas who see a grubby child and declare "Now
THERES a baby who's had a full day!" and ignore those who tut-tut your darling's
dirt.

Perhaps concentrate on washing your own hands and face before leaving?
Toddlers so often want to do whatever we're doing.

Deborah in IL
who kinda misses all those little kids who used to live with me
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Debra Rossing

One of DS' specific dislikes is water in his eyes - that fuels a
resistance to face and hair washing. He's okay with hair washing
(sometimes) if I get a clean dry washcloth and fold it to cover his
eyes/protect them from drips and drops and such. For his face, I mostly
just try to clean around his mouth area (well, he's 8 1/2 so he mostly
does it himself now but sometimes it needs more work...) In those
instances where his face needs my assistance, I'll be silly - uh how to
explain this one...lol - sort of sound like a jackhammer and do little
areas in spurts, working from jawline/cheeks in toward mouth, nose, etc
- outside to in so as to start as far from the tense areas as possible
and work in quickly, lightly, and fun. Sometimes, I'll skip around a
bit, kind of the way a bird or other skittish creature might hop and
jump around here and there (while making silly noise). Same type thing
also works for teeth - making drilling or 'equipment' type sounds -
except for teeth, I usually indicate which area I'm moving to next
(cruncher teeth, smile teeth, etc)

Deb

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

riasplace3

--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>
> I personally would LOVE to see another dirty child at the grocery
store. People are so up in
> arms around here it makes me sick. People seem to have children as
a status symbol, and
> dress them like little dolls to go ANYWHERE.

I did that *SO MUCH* with my oldest. I have pictures of her about 2
or so with her hair all fixed in the cutest styles. The pictures of
my younger dd are more reasonable...hair every where! I did have a
major breakthrough a couple weeks ago, though...my youngest went out
for a walk with Daddy with a purple dress and bright pink pants. For
YEARS I could not have stood that....someone might think I'm
neglectful... My kids always had to look like "little dolls", and I
got so many compliments...and swelled up accordingly... hopefully
I'm over that now. My sister pointed out to me that her kids picked
out their own clothes, and mine are like twice their ages...hint,
hint... : )


> There are girls at the mall playland, maybe three
> years old, at the most, with permed hair. The moms were talking
about how important it was
> to have controlled curl because it looks better than long strands
of straight hair. Blech.

OMG!! I can't believe someone would put that kind of chemicals on a
BABY! I LOVE LOVE LOVE long strands of baby hair...I'm always after
my sister's youngest dd...her hair is SO smooth and straight; I like
to *pet* her. lol
My SIL was talking about straightning her dd's hair, and I *gently*
suggested she wait until it's warm outside and do it outdoors so she
wouldn't be subjected to the smell. She already has dreadful health
problems, and I wouldn't get anything like that around her,
personally, but that's hard to say to her mother, KWIM?
Ria

Mara

SAme here! My 2 y.o. is always covered in something,
mostly paint and often dirt - both my boys have long
hair and the other day they went shopping in pajamas
and boots and then played in the snow (in pajamas) at
10 pm outside.
they don't bathe often, but they are very healthy.
They do understand about handwashing - most of the
time. Otherwise, bathing playmobil in water works too
-
Mara

--- Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:

> I personally would LOVE to see another dirty child
> at the grocery store. People are so up in
> arms around here it makes me sick. People seem to
> have children as a status symbol, and
> dress them like little dolls to go ANYWHERE. There
> are girls at the mall playland, maybe three
> years old, at the most, with permed hair. The moms
> were talking about how important it was
> to have controlled curl because it looks better than
> long strands of straight hair. Blech.
>
> And here are my kids, still in the dirt from our
> backyard, dried paint streaks from their latest
> artwork, Sam's funky mohawk and Rachels self
> inflicted hair cut...we are just a circus show to
> the people around here. I could go on and on, but
> most of it probably seems normal to you
> guys.
> Melissa
> --- In [email protected],
> "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...>
> wrote:
> OTOH, there may be another mom out there who sighs
> in relief
> > to see another messy kid just like hers.
> >
> > ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
> >
>
>
>





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Joanne

>>>>SAme here! My 2 y.o. is always covered in something,
> mostly paint and often dirt - both my boys have long
> hair and the other day they went shopping in pajamas
> and boots and then played in the snow (in pajamas) at
> 10 pm outside. >>>>

I'm laughing over here because most of you are talking about little
ones, but my 11 year old daughter is the one in our family who is
always rolling around in the dirt, making mudpies and always has leaves
in her hair. :-)

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

Rachel Salavon

People seem to have children as a status symbol, and
> dress them like little dolls to go ANYWHERE.


Something hit me the other day about children being a status
symbol. Most parents were schooled kids at one time. We all jumped
through hoops to get rewards for our own behavior -- getting good
grades, praise, avoiding punishment, etc. And now, especially if
they were a good students in school, many parents are still jumping
through hoops to get praise and compliments. Alfie Kohn calls it
contingent self-esteem in "Unconditional Parenting" -- basically,
your self-esteem goes way up or way down depending on how someone
treats you. If someone is angry or disapproving, you can feel
really low. On the other hand, if you are praised, your feelings of
self worth going soaring. (We could do a whole other topic about how
a mother's self esteem can be contingent on how happy or sad her
child is) So, they get compliments, "good parenting!" from family,
strangers or anyone for how their children look and behave. Well,
apparently most people want children to act like little adults.
What are the characteristics that are most often praised about
children? I would say, having good manners, being neat and tidy,
looking good, doing something with a visible result or a goal in
mind.

Parents are like little school children desperately trying to get an
A in childrearing. You get a bright red X if your child cries in
the store for more than 30 seconds! You get extra credit if you
remind your child to say please or thankyou. You certainly get an A
if you reprimand or punish them. And if your child yells at you in
public, well (depending on how you react to it) you just might get
an F.

What has helped me is just being aware of how I feel about my
children when other people are around. Then really questioning
where those thoughts are coming from. Someone had mentioned certain
of their children have helped them become better people through
hardship. I think the same can be said of where you live. We live
in a very conservative southern state. That has forced me to stop
relying on other people's opinions of my children. It's hard
because I was one of those good school children with very contingent
self-esteem.

Rachel (unschooling mother of 4)

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], DACunefare@... wrote:
>> If it were me (and it has been, in the past) I'd concentrate on the
hands
> more than the face.

This is an excellent point! And it works well with things like wipes,
too, that someone else suggested, or some kind of bath-mit or toy that
holds the soap.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Katharine Wise

No kidding. I was just thinking the other day (and not for the first time) that one of my reasons for unschooling is that I don't want my children to be so dependent on other people to tell them whether they're right or wrong. As a formerly schooled child myself, I definitely still struggle with withdrawal from that. It was so gratifying to write a paper or answer a teacher's question and be told I was right. Unfortunately, life isn't like that usually. Certainly not parenting nor any other people-related profession. You have to figure it out for yourself, and know that there probably is not a perfect answer most of the time. But gee, I still long to know what the "right" answer is.

Katharine

----- Original Message ----
From: Rachel Salavon <rachelsalavon@...>




Parents are like little school children desperately trying to get an

A in childrearing.










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Parents are like little school children desperately trying to get an
A in childrearing. You get a bright red X if your child cries in
the store for more than 30 seconds! You get extra credit if you
remind your child to say please or thankyou. You certainly get an A
if you reprimand or punish them. And if your child yells at you in
public, well (depending on how you react to it) you just might get
an F.~~


Wow...that's such a great analogy!
I never thought of it that way, but I think it would make a fabulous
article.:) You might think about elaborating on this topic and how our
schooling affects us long after we're not in school.

I've definitely worked to let go of how other's view my parenting.
It's especially hard with Jalen who will wear the most torn up, dirty
clothing everywhere (his faves) and who cuts his own hair because
having someone else do it is sensory overload for him. I'm sure he
looks neglected to other people sometimes. We're learned to do a lot
of letting go...:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Rachel

--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>
> I personally would LOVE to see another dirty child at the grocery
store.

> OTOH, there may be another mom out there who sighs in relief
> > to see another messy kid just like hers.

> > ---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

I'm a newbie. I am soooooo happy to know that there are others out
there with dirty kids. Dd who will be 5 in a few days is one of them.
It seems the dirtier she is, the better the day has been. She cut her
own bangs just the way she wanted them (I'm sure you can imagine)
after she watched me shave my head. She spent the last 2 days and
nights in a new gymnastics outfit, she agreed to have it washed only
after getting itchy as long as it was returned asap. Baths are good,
she loves to soak and play but doesn't usually get an official
washing, we take what we can get.

Rachel
(Soph almost 5, Meg 15)

Ren Allen

~~It seems the dirtier she is, the better the day has been. She cut her
own bangs just the way she wanted them (I'm sure you can imagine)~~

I can totally relate.

My 6y.o. has never, ever had a professional haircut. We've been able
to trim it occasionally, but mostly he cuts it himself. I preferred
just letting it grow since he didn't want haircuts, but he hates hair
in his face so I'm sure you can imagine the results.:)

It seems common for Mom's to apologize for messy/dirty kids. I always
smile and say "it looks like he/she had a really fun day!"

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Rachel" <radle12000@...>
wrote:
>> It seems the dirtier she is, the better the day has been. She cut
her
> own bangs just the way she wanted them (I'm sure you can imagine)
> after she watched me shave my head.

LOL! That just happened here, too. I shaved my head about a week ago
and Mo's been cutting hair ever since. That's been our norm ever since
she started using scissors. I tried cutting her hair once, with her
permission, and it was a nightmare of her wiggling every which way
(hold still, please! I AM holding still!). Plus it looked...dippy :(
When she cuts her hair it looks funky and sort of stylish - and its
pretty obvious to me she's being careful.

I'm glad we have our own creek, though - it means she often washes the
worst of the mud off before she comes in the house.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)