Robin

First year hslng, "looking" at unschooling since Aug 06. Slowly
implementing since Nov 06. I loved school so I have a lot of
deschooling to do for myself.

I definitely think my 7yo ds will benefit from unschooling. He's
extremely bright, but a reluctant reader. Understands higher math
concepts, but struggles with simple math sometimes. Very stong-
willed (gets from his mom), very tender (gets from his dad) and has
so much energy.

I have 2 questions to start. (I have been reading posts here and the
suggested links-thank you for everything!)

1) Carschooling - he does his best thinking in the car. I'm still
confused on him deciding what/when to learn and how I am to help him
with that. For instance, on a recent 20 minute trip to an art class,
led by his questioning, we discussed religion, toxic waste, volcanos,
being famous, pet ownership, geology and whether kryptonite was
real. Now that is a lot to cover in 20 minutes, but I did my best.
lol. Do I write all these topics down and run like crazy to the
library or look them all up online and show him links? We do have
books on some of his favorite topics, but he is not interested in
reading or being read to (even though, he wanted us to read many
books per night when he was younger). How does this work???

2) Testing is fast approaching and I am getting nervous. On the one
hand, I think he could easily pass the first grade CAT test based on
what I know of our state requirements for knowledge (in VA), but on
the other hand, I'm not POSITIVE if he can. I don't know what is on
the test and I'll have to read it for him - I hope that is
allowed.

I realize he is young and would like to let him learn at his pace,
but with state requirements over my head...

Any understanding and help with this is much appreciated.

Warmly,
Robin

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/1/2007 2:03:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
r.levine@... writes:

Testing is fast approaching and I am getting nervous. On the one
hand, I think he could easily pass the first grade CAT test based on
what I know of our state requirements for knowledge (in VA), but on
the other hand, I'm not POSITIVE if he can. I don't know what is on
the test and I'll have to read it for him - I hope that is
allowed.



Hi Robin.. I am in VA also.. and you will be surprised how easy the CAT test
is and that your son will probably pass it with flying colors :)
Sandy
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Robin" <r.levine@...>
wrote:
>> For instance, on a recent 20 minute trip to an art class,
> led by his questioning, we discussed religion, toxic waste,
volcanos,
> being famous, pet ownership, geology and whether kryptonite was
> real. Now that is a lot to cover in 20 minutes, but I did my
best.
> lol. Do I write all these topics down and run like crazy to the
> library or look them all up online and show him links?

I certainly wouldn't do this with all of them, and maybe with none
of them. If he seems really interested *and* wanting to do something
other than talk, yes, do some research so you can help him follow
his interest. But keep in mind that "just" chatting with him may be
enough. My stepson, for example, learns mainly by talking to people.
He remembers amazing things from past conversations, but very little
that he reads. In school he was at a disadvantage bc "talking to
people" isn't really considered a "valid" way to learn.

I really recommend looking at other learning styles and the "Theory
of Mulitple Intelligences". Here's a link to get you started:

http://sandradodd.com/intelligences

> I definitely think my 7yo ds will benefit from unschooling. He's
> extremely bright, but a reluctant reader. Understands higher math
> concepts, but struggles with simple math sometimes.

Well, the way math is taught in schools doesn't have much to do with
the way people really learn math - that's why so many people have
trouble with it. "Simple math" and "higher math" are school
concepts. Pretty young kids can conceptualize "higher" ideas before
they can do "simple" computations.

Even working with language has a whole lot more to it than reading.
I mentioned my stepson as one example. I also have a girlfriend
whose dd could be considered a "reluctant reader/writer" but she
loves to create elaborate plays and stories. Its become a family
event for her to dictate a play, assign roles, pick out costumes,
and then the whole family puts on a little mini-production for
themselves. But this girl (she's 6) won't read beyond basic stuff
and can't remember how to write about half the alphabet.

> 1) Carschooling - he does his best thinking in the car.

It might be worth considering if it's not so much that he "does his
best thinking" in the car as that its when he has the easiest time
communicating his ideas. It could be a matter of how he thinks and
learns *or* it could be that mom keeps pretty busy and needs to make
more time to chat.

I can't say anything at all about state testing, its not an issue
for me, but I'd check with local unschoolers and even homeschoolers
for ideas about this. It may be that you don't have to test.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Robin

Thanks, Sandy. That's reassuring!

Robin


> Hi Robin.. I am in VA also.. and you will be surprised how easy the
CAT test
> is and that your son will probably pass it with flying colors :)
> Sandy
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers
free
> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Robin

Thanks, Meredith.

~But keep in mind that "just" chatting with him may be
~enough. My stepson, for example, learns mainly by talking to people.
~He remembers amazing things from past conversations, but very little
~that he reads.

This seems to fit my son as well.


~I really recommend looking at other learning styles and the "Theory
~of Mulitple Intelligences". Here's a link to get you started:
~http://sandradodd.com/intelligences

Followed that link from another post last night. Interesting.


~"Simple math" and "higher math" are school
~concepts. Pretty young kids can conceptualize "higher" ideas before
~they can do "simple" computations.

Thanks for correcting my wording. That was what I was trying to say -
remember what I stated in the first para. - I have deschooling to do
for me. :-)


~It might be worth considering if it's not so much that he "does his
~best thinking" in the car as that its when he has the easiest time
~communicating his ideas. It could be a matter of how he thinks and
~learns *or* it could be that mom keeps pretty busy and needs to make
~more time to chat.

That is certainly one way of looking at it. But to evaluate my
time...other than a few household chores, my time centers around my
children and their activities. (right now is Daddy time-which is why
I am free to type ;-)) All things related to "just me" are usually
done after they've gone to sleep.

I also have a very snuggly 3yo ds. We eat all meals, even snacks
seated together, no tv, and there is a lot of conversation going on.
Those intense questions don't only occur in the car. It's pretty
much a waking to bedtime thing. I only used that as an example. I
think or rather know, I'm meeting his needs, I was more or less
asking for help on how to unschool. Of course I know that is
different for all of us, there isn't a set rule and I think you
cleared that up with your response to converse with him on the
topics and impart what knowledge I possess and then research further
if he iniates it.

I will certainly keep your post in mind and see if I can find other
opportunities to open up the channels with him. I think it is worthy
investment of time for all of us.

Thank you for your insight,
Robin

Pamela Sorooshian

>> Understands higher math
>> concepts, but struggles with simple math sometimes.

He doesn't like to practice computational skills, but he likes to
think about math ideas?

Yeah, me too!

Do no harm. Computational ability will come because it is really
useful. Thinking about math ideas is fun and satisfying to the
inquiring mind. Don't create any pressure, but enjoy it.

-pam
Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanne

Hi Robin and welcome...

>>>>>Carschooling - he does his best thinking in the car. I'm still
confused on him deciding what/when to learn and how I am to help him
with that. For instance, on a recent 20 minute trip to an art
class, led by his questioning, we discussed religion, toxic waste,
volcanos, being famous, pet ownership, geology and whether
kryptonite was real. Now that is a lot to cover in 20 minutes, but
I did my best. lol. Do I write all these topics down and run like
crazy to the library or look them all up online and show him links?
We do have books on some of his favorite topics, but he is not
interested in reading or being read to (even though, he wanted us to
read many books per night when he was younger). How does this
work???>>>>>


Let things happen naturally, like they did in your car with the
discussion about art...which led to religion, which led to toxic
waste...which led to.....
My youngest daughter is 8 and this is how she learns also. To her,
everything is connected. She's been very patient with me and my
schooled-mind as I grasped this because I've always been led to
believe (having gone to public school) that science is science and
art is art.
I've said it before, we, as parents have to deschool ourselves
first. I could never have unschooled my kids with a schooled mind.
It's a shift in thinking, a change in perspective.
Keep reading here and ask questions. There's a bunch of links in the
left sidebar that you may want to check out.
One of the editions of Unschooling Voices was on deschooling. Here's
the link: (scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

Robin

Thanks Joanne,

I think you hit the nail on the head and I will check out that
resource. I'll keep working on me in the midnight hours.

:-) :-)
Robin


--- In [email protected], "Joanne"
<billyandjoanne@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Robin and welcome...
>
> >>>>>Carschooling - he does his best thinking in the car. I'm
still
> confused on him deciding what/when to learn and how I am to help
him
> with that. For instance, on a recent 20 minute trip to an art
> class, led by his questioning, we discussed religion, toxic waste,
> volcanos, being famous, pet ownership, geology and whether
> kryptonite was real. Now that is a lot to cover in 20 minutes, but
> I did my best. lol. Do I write all these topics down and run like
> crazy to the library or look them all up online and show him
links?
> We do have books on some of his favorite topics, but he is not
> interested in reading or being read to (even though, he wanted us
to
> read many books per night when he was younger). How does this
> work???>>>>>
>
>
> Let things happen naturally, like they did in your car with the
> discussion about art...which led to religion, which led to toxic
> waste...which led to.....
> My youngest daughter is 8 and this is how she learns also. To her,
> everything is connected. She's been very patient with me and my
> schooled-mind as I grasped this because I've always been led to
> believe (having gone to public school) that science is science and
> art is art.
> I've said it before, we, as parents have to deschool ourselves
> first. I could never have unschooled my kids with a schooled mind.
> It's a shift in thinking, a change in perspective.
> Keep reading here and ask questions. There's a bunch of links in
the
> left sidebar that you may want to check out.
> One of the editions of Unschooling Voices was on deschooling.
Here's
> the link: (scroll down to the bottom)
> http://www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
>
> ~ Joanne ~
> Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
> http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
>

Robin

Thank you, Pam. I've been using our game time to practice math
ideas. Instead of matching pairs in Go Fish, we match numbers that
add up to 10 or 20, etc. He's really enjoyed this.

Warmly,
Robin


--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Understands higher math
> >> concepts, but struggles with simple math sometimes.
>
> He doesn't like to practice computational skills, but he likes to
> think about math ideas?
>
> Yeah, me too!
>
> Do no harm. Computational ability will come because it is really
> useful. Thinking about math ideas is fun and satisfying to the
> inquiring mind. Don't create any pressure, but enjoy it.
>
> -pam
> Relay for Life
> http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lisa Heyman

>~"Simple math" and "higher math" are school
>~concepts. Pretty young kids can conceptualize "higher" ideas before
>~they can do "simple" computations.



i think this has proved true for all areas of learning for my dd. she first
conceptualizes on a higher - big picture level and then the smaller more
refined tasks come later.

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
Win a Zune��make MSN� your homepage for your chance to win!
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Lisa Heyman

>I think you
>cleared that up with your response to converse with him on the
>topics and impart what knowledge I possess and then research further
>if he iniates it.
>


One of the things i've enjoyed about homeschooling/unschooling are my
personal investigations that get sparked by my dds' questions. I have found
myself joyfully researching further merely for my own edification. The
things that were covered and supposed to have been 'learned' in school i am
finally getting to really know for myself.

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Lisa Heyman

>Robin wrote:
Thank you, Pam. I've been using our game time to practice math
>ideas. Instead of matching pairs in Go Fish, we match numbers that
>add up to 10 or 20, etc. He's really enjoyed this.
>

It's always fun to find new ways to challenge the mind with games that can
get old.

My question would be whose idea was it to modify the game and for what
purpose? I am wondering if your intention to match numbers is to give the
game a new challenge because your child wants it, or is it because you are
looking for an opportunity to practice math?

I have found that an ulterior motive can take the joy out of a game. The
opportunity to practice math exists without having to superimpose it on an
activity or game that young children enjoy simply because it is easily
mastered. Of course if your child initiated this creative twist, well then,
that's an example of an unschooled life!

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Robin

Well, Lisa, I had this long response typed up and just lost it.

I'll take a shorter approach to answering your post. I've been
diligently reading the "online" resources that keep popping up on
this board, such as Sandra Dodd, Danielle Conger, Joyce Fetterol and
I've seen them all mention "math games". Sandra even gave a link to
Pam Sarooshian's link on dice games which I've also used with my son.

To answer whether or not I force the issue or does he, well in the
beginning of our school year I had to be creative and come up with
ways to help him "learn" what was needed in our curriculum. Since
he's not a sit down kind of kid, I played games. So, yes, in the
beginning I did impose it upon him. However now, as we are working
toward an unschooling life, I don't force these ideas on him. He
will ask to play my math games just as frequently as he will ask to
play Trouble or Zathura, etc. Although since his undertanding has
increased, he asks less and less and that is fine with me.

The long and short of it is that Jarod likes math. He questions me
everyday about money, how long until we visit Grandma, when are my
school friends coming home, and even addition such as 800+200=1000.
I don't understand how playing games with him, even ones I've made up
to help with his math understanding cannot be unschooling. I'm not
forcing him to look at flash cards, or do endless problems on a
worksheet, or drilling him, I'm just finding a way to reinforce sums
of 10 so that when he wants to know if 800+200=1000 (and he does),
he'll know how to get there. I truly want him to understand
the "process" rather than the "rules".

Please feel to enlighten me further if I am way out in left
field. :-) I appreciate your input.

Thanks,
Robin


--- In [email protected], "Lisa Heyman"
> It's always fun to find new ways to challenge the mind with games
that can get old.
> My question would be whose idea was it to modify the game and for
what purpose? I am wondering if your intention to match numbers is
to give the game a new challenge because your child wants it, or is
it because you are looking for an opportunity to practice math?
> I have found that an ulterior motive can take the joy out of a
game. The opportunity to practice math exists without having to
superimpose it on an activity or game that young children enjoy
simply because it is easily mastered. Of course if your child
initiated this creative twist, well then, that's an example of an
unschooled life!
>
> Lisa Heyman
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
Experian.
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>

[email protected]

One of my kids sometimes thinks about things a long long LONG time (weeks,
months, sometimes years) before wanting to discuss or question with anyone else.
It's occasionally really baffling and frustrating because she'll just pick up
a conversation/thought where she left off, weeks later. I send her links to
think I know she's interested in and sometimes I luck out and hit on something
that's currently percolating.

Another of my kids wants to talk about everything. Right when he's thinking
it. I've described it as him needing to run his thoughts through someone else's
head so he can figure out what he thinks. Kathy Wentz uses the phrase "social
learner" which I think is a nice little description. I always know what he's
thinking about. Especially at 2am. If I think he'd appreciate the help finding
more information I do it. If I see an article relating to something he's run
past me recently I'll point it out to him, often he reads them.

In my opinion, conversation is the essence of unschooling.

Deborah in IL<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now
offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com

Pamela Sorooshian

I get Lisa's point - turning games into lessons is not a great idea.

But, I want to point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with
mom initiating the creative twist. THAT is also an example of an
unschooled life. And there is nothing wrong with thinking that the
new twist will help our kid learn something that we think he might
really like to learn, either.

Just worries me that sometimes people treat math stuff differently
than other stuff. If you watched a movie that your child really
liked, would you hesitate to recommend another movie that you thought
he'd also like? So, if you're playing a game and you think, "Oh, I
bet he'd enjoy it if we changed the rules a little - make it a bit
more challenging by introducing some addition," that's cool, too.

It is a fine line between supporting learning versus pushing it on
our kids. We have to know them really well. We have to be sensitive.
We have to know that this is a kid who will enjoy learning this new
thing and appreciate being a little challenged.

The problem with math, in particular, is that so many parents are,
themselves, overly anxious and sometimes even phobic about it. So, I
think most people might need to be just a smidgen on the lookout for
ways to support math learning in natural and fun ways. Supporting
other kinds of learning might come more naturally to the parents. If
parents are math-anxious, they'll avoid math and their kids will miss
out on the support that they could have had if the parents had been
more comfortable with it.

I think parents can go ahead and introduce fun math stuff into games
or art projects or in cooking or sewing or carpentry, etc., as long
as they're remembering that the point of a game is to have fun, the
point of art is to be creative, the point of cooking is to make good
food, and so on - the learning is incidental.

If you just remember the basic unschooling principal of supporting
our kids' interests by providing ways to do more, expand, add to,
make connections, etc., then if you're kid is interested in playing a
certain game, you'll naturally think of other similar games he might
enjoy, ways to expand the game, to relate it to other interests, to
add to it and modify it, and so on. Just like with any other
interest, except that there are lots of parents who simply won't
think about adding to it in ways that involve mathematics because
they avoid math without even realizing they're doing it.

On Mar 2, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Lisa Heyman wrote:
>
> My question would be whose idea was it to modify the game and for what
> purpose? I am wondering if your intention to match numbers is to
> give the
> game a new challenge because your child wants it, or is it because
> you are
> looking for an opportunity to practice math?
>
> I have found that an ulterior motive can take the joy out of a
> game. The
> opportunity to practice math exists without having to superimpose
> it on an
> activity or game that young children enjoy simply because it is easily
> mastered. Of course if your child initiated this creative twist,
> well then,
> that's an example of an unschooled life!


Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

riasplace3

--- In [email protected], "Robin" <r.levine@...> wrote:

> 2) Testing is fast approaching and I am getting nervous. On the one
> hand, I think he could easily pass the first grade CAT test based on
> what I know of our state requirements for knowledge (in VA),


Aren't portfolios an option instead of testing in VA? Something like a
portfolio & interview with a teacher?
Our first year HSing we were in VA, and I bought and administered the
CAT test myself. (How I wanted) No one ever said anything, so I'm
guessing it was legal. : )
Have you joined a VA unschooling list? They would be better equipped
to answer questions like these. I belonged to one for a
while...Northern Area...or something...it's group name is something
like NOVA, but I don't think that's it. It *seems* like there was
another (quiter)group in the Roanoke and lower area, too. It's been so
long since I was on them, I've forgotten!
Hope some of this helps!
Ria

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/5/2007 10:30:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
riasplace3@... writes:

> 2) Testing is fast approaching and I am getting nervous. On the one
> hand, I think he could easily pass the first grade CAT test based on
> what I know of our state requirements for knowledge (in VA),


Aren't portfolios an option instead of testing in VA? Something like a
portfolio & interview with a teacher?
Our first year HSing we were in VA, and I bought and administered the
CAT test myself. (How I wanted) No one ever said anything, so I'm
guessing it was legal. : )
Have you joined a VA unschooling list? They would be better equipped
to answer questions like these. I belonged to one for a
while...Northern Area...or something...it's group name is something
like NOVA, but I don't think that's it. It *seems* like there was
another (quiter)group in the Roanoke and lower area, too. It's been so
long since I was on them, I've forgotten!
Hope some of this helps!
Ria



I am in VA and you can do Portfolio's.. Although I have always tested with
the Cat also and I test the way I want.. (Meaning..I don't time them) and they
always do well... I disagree with the timing bit...cause everyone is
different and timing really stresses people out.. Besides..I am giving them what
they wanted.. a test score.. :)
Sandy
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa Heyman

>--- In [email protected], "Robin" <r.levine@...> wrote:
>
> > 2) Testing is fast approaching and I am getting nervous. On the one
> > hand, I think he could easily pass the first grade CAT test based on
> > what I know of our state requirements for knowledge (in VA),
>

Here in NY there is a long list of tests that can be picked from - not just
the ones used in the school. And we don't have to start until 4th grade.
Are there other options in VA beside testing? Also - our tests can be
administrated at home which eliminates oversite by strangers and no time
restraints. Unschoolers handle this in a variety of ways. If that is the
case in VA - at home tests give you a lot of flexibility.

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
Find what you need at prices you�ll love. Compare products and save at MSN�
Shopping.
http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701

Lisa Heyman

Robin,
sorry i didn't respond sooner (i've been out of town) but - no i don't think
you sound way out in left field to me at all...and please forgive me if i
made you feel defensive.

I was being suspect when i heard the phrase "practice math" in relation to a
game. Perhaps its from my own experience where i need to check my motives
to be sure that they are not manipulative based on what i think (or others
think i/we should be doing) rather than trully listening to what my child
wants.

I have found when i've suggested math games (even those posted on
unschooling lists) they seem to be more of an imposition and not always
received well - must be something in my presentation - certainly something
i've had to work on....<bwg>

Lisa Heyman





>From: "Robin" <r.levine@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Newbie here with questions of course! ;-)
>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 05:34:01 -0000
>
>Well, Lisa, I had this long response typed up and just lost it.
>
>I'll take a shorter approach to answering your post. I've been
>diligently reading the "online" resources that keep popping up on
>this board, such as Sandra Dodd, Danielle Conger, Joyce Fetterol and
>I've seen them all mention "math games". Sandra even gave a link to
>Pam Sarooshian's link on dice games which I've also used with my son.
>
>To answer whether or not I force the issue or does he, well in the
>beginning of our school year I had to be creative and come up with
>ways to help him "learn" what was needed in our curriculum. Since
>he's not a sit down kind of kid, I played games. So, yes, in the
>beginning I did impose it upon him. However now, as we are working
>toward an unschooling life, I don't force these ideas on him. He
>will ask to play my math games just as frequently as he will ask to
>play Trouble or Zathura, etc. Although since his undertanding has
>increased, he asks less and less and that is fine with me.
>
>The long and short of it is that Jarod likes math. He questions me
>everyday about money, how long until we visit Grandma, when are my
>school friends coming home, and even addition such as 800+200=1000.
>I don't understand how playing games with him, even ones I've made up
>to help with his math understanding cannot be unschooling. I'm not
>forcing him to look at flash cards, or do endless problems on a
>worksheet, or drilling him, I'm just finding a way to reinforce sums
>of 10 so that when he wants to know if 800+200=1000 (and he does),
>he'll know how to get there. I truly want him to understand
>the "process" rather than the "rules".
>
>Please feel to enlighten me further if I am way out in left
>field. :-) I appreciate your input.
>
>Thanks,
>Robin
>
>
>--- In [email protected], "Lisa Heyman"
> > It's always fun to find new ways to challenge the mind with games
>that can get old.
> > My question would be whose idea was it to modify the game and for
>what purpose? I am wondering if your intention to match numbers is
>to give the game a new challenge because your child wants it, or is
>it because you are looking for an opportunity to practice math?
> > I have found that an ulterior motive can take the joy out of a
>game. The opportunity to practice math exists without having to
>superimpose it on an activity or game that young children enjoy
>simply because it is easily mastered. Of course if your child
>initiated this creative twist, well then, that's an example of an
>unschooled life!
> >
> > Lisa Heyman
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
>Experian.
> > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
>sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
> >
>
>

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Robin

Thanks, Lisa. I have a long way to go in letting go of my schooling
notions. Reading this board and having answers to my questions has
been such a big help.

Warmly,
Robin

--- In [email protected], "Lisa Heyman"
<Lmanathome@...> wrote:
>
but - no i don't think
> you sound way out in left field to me at all...and please forgive me
if i
> made you feel defensive.
>
>

Pamela Sorooshian

Knowing you, I'm sure you don't mean that you present them as "math"
games. You just say, "Oh, hey, I learned a new game. Wanna try it?"
Right? <G>

-pam
Relay for Life
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh


On Mar 6, 2007, at 7:28 AM, Lisa Heyman wrote:

> I have found when i've suggested math games (even those posted on
> unschooling lists) they seem to be more of an imposition and not
> always
> received well - must be something in my presentation - certainly
> something
> i've had to work on....<bwg>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa Heyman

>From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
>
>Knowing you, I'm sure you don't mean that you present them as "math"
>games. You just say, "Oh, hey, I learned a new game. Wanna try it?"
>Right? <G>
>


Well there you go...see i knew i needed to present them in a different way
<lol>....boy you think really well of me!!!

I am still digesting and working on a thoughtful response to your previous
response to my posting on presenting "math games." I just haven't had the
time to finalize all my thoughts in print...in fact Roxy tonight had a melt
down because she felt like she was competing with the computer for my time.

In a nut shell...i do need to do more of my own personal investigations in
the area of math so as to be more knowledgable and confident in my ability
to converse about the subject with my kids in a more intuitive way (as i do
in other topics of which i have more depth of experience). And for the
anyone else reading this...this is not to say i need to be an expert in
every area my kids show interest - far from it...but my curiosity has been
peaked and i am interested in learning for myself what i don't know. Oh how
i do love all that unschooling brings into my life!!! I'm actually
interested in "math" <bwg>

Lisa Heyman

_________________________________________________________________
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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Lisa Heyman"
<Lmanathome@...> wrote:
>> this is not to say i need to be an expert in
> every area my kids show interest - far from it...but my curiosity
has been
> peaked and i am interested in learning for myself what i don't
know. Oh how
> i do love all that unschooling brings into my life!!! I'm actually
> interested in "math" <bwg>

This is a really great example of what I was saying in the post about
passions - since you are passionate about your kids, you're interested
in subjects that you otherwise might avoid. *I* never thought I'd be
interested in computer games, until my kids wanted them....

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Lisa Heyman

>From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
>Just worries me that sometimes people treat math stuff differently
>than other stuff. >
>The problem with math, in particular, is that so many parents are,
>themselves, overly anxious and sometimes even phobic about it.>>

>So, I think most people might need to be just a smidgen on the lookout for
>ways to support math learning in natural and fun ways. Supporting
>other kinds of learning might come more naturally to the parents. If
>parents are math-anxious, they'll avoid math and their kids will miss
>out on the support that they could have had if the parents had been
>more comfortable with it.

Pam your response gave me much to think about.

Discussion with my dh about math has always been a hot topic in our house.
On a personal note, i don't consider myself math phobic or anxious...it's
more that i am math limited beyond the basics. Math has never been an area
that has peaked my interest to explore beyond what i've had to use in my
daily life. Trusting that i am using advanced mathematical concepts, just
not aware of the labels or descriptions of such. Introducing or recognizing
opportunities to incorporate challenging or advanced math information
doesn't come as naturally to me as introducing other areas that i do have
strong personal experience or interest. This has been a concern of dh's.
I've always recognized the reality of our children being more heavily
exposed to what we as their parents have more knowledge and experience. I
also know that when their interest reaches beyond mine in any area i help
them search out resources that will take them further than what my knowledge
base is...whether it be sciences, sewing or gymnastics - because they are
interested and i remain forever curious.

Over the years, whenever i read your posts to dh about math - he'll say -
that's easy for her to say, mathematically thinking is second nature to her,
not to us, how will our kids get exposed to this if we don't consciously put
it infront of them. I've been more relaxed about this than he would like me
to be.

>
>I think parents can go ahead and introduce fun math stuff into games
>or art projects or in cooking or sewing or carpentry, etc., as long
>as they're remembering that the point of a game is to have fun, the
>point of art is to be creative, the point of cooking is to make good
>food, and so on - the learning is incidental.
>
>If you just remember the basic unschooling principal of supporting
>our kids' interests by providing ways to do more, expand, add to,
>make connections, etc., then if you're kid is interested in playing a
>certain game, you'll naturally think of other similar games he might
>enjoy, ways to expand the game, to relate it to other interests, to
>add to it and modify it, and so on. Just like with any other
>interest, except that there are lots of parents who simply won't
>think about adding to it in ways that involve mathematics because
>they avoid math without even realizing they're doing it.

Guilty, by lack of knowledge. Time to hit the books!!! I have some good
ones (fun ones) on our shelf. Pam, you have once again tickled my
curiousity and stretched my mind.

Much gratitude.
lisa heyman


>
>On Mar 2, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Lisa Heyman wrote:
> >
> > My question would be whose idea was it to modify the game and for what
> > purpose? I am wondering if your intention to match numbers is to
> > give the
> > game a new challenge because your child wants it, or is it because
> > you are
> > looking for an opportunity to practice math?
> >
> > I have found that an ulterior motive can take the joy out of a
> > game. The
> > opportunity to practice math exists without having to superimpose
> > it on an
> > activity or game that young children enjoy simply because it is easily
> > mastered. Of course if your child initiated this creative twist,
> > well then,
> > that's an example of an unschooled life!
>
>
>Relay for Life
>http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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