How to handle tough kids
pamela6000
Hello,
We are a new family to unschooling. We have two dds, 5 and 2. I had
my 5yro dd in preschool a bit and saw it squash her creativity and
cause behavior issues. I had to convince my dh..who is not an easy
person to convince and often times tells me to put her in school,but
actually it is working ok. (My parents still cannot understand
why,as they put it,"I would want to do that to MYSELF" and have no
free time, etc.)
The problem is that I do have days..maybe 3 a week, where I feel
like throwing my 5 yro the next school bus that comes down our
street! She was literally an angel until the 2yr old was born.
Since, she is controlling, bossy, tells many "stories", and many
times just mean to her sister or us. I have tried many approaches
but my patience wears thin and often I resort to yelling(which I
hate) but it seems to be the only thing that gets her attention. I
know she is tired and really still could benefit from a daytime nap
(I know this from the rare days she looks at bookS and falls asleep
for 2 hrs and afterward is so much nicer all day!)But she refused my
suggestions of a nap or even quiet time most days.
If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses that
whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style..but now as an
education style..which I get and really like. It seems people just
change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how does one
handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips a toy
from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. You can
say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could care less.
Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regarding
it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and waking
others is any different to another person who says you can play with
any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up or put
it away?? To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all on one
level and so it is important for us to be able to live/move around
in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered all over
all day!
Any insight..sorry I babbled a bit. I'm not sure I made any sense!
Thanks pam
We are a new family to unschooling. We have two dds, 5 and 2. I had
my 5yro dd in preschool a bit and saw it squash her creativity and
cause behavior issues. I had to convince my dh..who is not an easy
person to convince and often times tells me to put her in school,but
actually it is working ok. (My parents still cannot understand
why,as they put it,"I would want to do that to MYSELF" and have no
free time, etc.)
The problem is that I do have days..maybe 3 a week, where I feel
like throwing my 5 yro the next school bus that comes down our
street! She was literally an angel until the 2yr old was born.
Since, she is controlling, bossy, tells many "stories", and many
times just mean to her sister or us. I have tried many approaches
but my patience wears thin and often I resort to yelling(which I
hate) but it seems to be the only thing that gets her attention. I
know she is tired and really still could benefit from a daytime nap
(I know this from the rare days she looks at bookS and falls asleep
for 2 hrs and afterward is so much nicer all day!)But she refused my
suggestions of a nap or even quiet time most days.
If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses that
whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style..but now as an
education style..which I get and really like. It seems people just
change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how does one
handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips a toy
from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. You can
say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could care less.
Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regarding
it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and waking
others is any different to another person who says you can play with
any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up or put
it away?? To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all on one
level and so it is important for us to be able to live/move around
in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered all over
all day!
Any insight..sorry I babbled a bit. I'm not sure I made any sense!
Thanks pam
plaidpanties666
Hi, Pam, I'm Meredith, mom to Mo (5) who has "always" been
unschooled, and stepmom to Ray (13) who's new to our home and
unschooling.
my 5yr old questions if I think she needs my input for some reason.
When she whines or screams at me I take it as a sign that I haven't
been listening or responding to her needs very promptly - with a
toddler underfoot you may have been saying a lot of "hold on...in a
minute...not right now...later...I'm in the middle of something..."
all that can add up to a huge bill of frustration for a kid.
A whole lot of unschooling younger kids has to do with being
proactive in making sure they have the tools they need to be
autonomous and looking carefully for nonverbal cues. Some kids are
great at being able to tell you what they want/need and listen to
explanations, but alot aren't. Mine's not. She's waaaaaay better
than she used to be, but she's still not the most conversational of
children, so looking for non-verbal cues and patterns is a big part
of how I help her get her needs met.
Why would a child hit (etc) another? Well, she might be hungry, or
tired or feeling out of control or frustrated or.... She doesn't
have the means to asses her own internal state and communicate it in
a clear way, yet, so part of mom's job is to be aware of those
possibilities and seek to address them *before* it gets to the
hitting stage. That's not about rules at all, its about how to be a
better mom.
Some of that involves being aware of patterns - how long has it been
since she had some protein? how many times has she needed a grown-up
to help her, today? how often has she felt "second best" to the
toddler? Some of it involves mom being available in the moment - I
mean right there on the floor with the kids, not trying to get the
dishes washed and laundry folded while the kids play. If you are
right there in the middle of things, you have the chance to see the
frown and ask "can I help" or catch the hand before it hits.
you. I'd suggest you look at a couple different things, here. First
of all, what tone of voice do *you* use and what kind of language do
you use with your dd? Sometimes that snotty tone is what We sound
like to Them. Oops. Make a concious effort to listen to yourself,
especially when you are saying something like "Not now". Also watch
out for times when you may be "lecturing" her - I don't know anyone,
kid or grown who likes to be lectured, but so far I've never met a
parent who doesn't at least do it occasionally (accidentally - I do
it myself). Its also a possible source of "snotty tone".
recommend reading the archives both here and at Always Unschooled:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
which is a board with a focus on unschooling with little kids, even
pre-school and babies.
I guess a short answer is to look for alternatives - ways to
simplify cleanup for you or make it less of an issue overall.
The one idea I would pull from your post for you to consider
is "when you are done" - children aren't ever really *done* playing,
and often will multitask in their play and have several different
things going on at the same time. My 5yr old will sometimes have a
project of game involving toys that lasts for several days, even
though she will leave it for hours at a time to do other things.
Asking kids to clean up on *our* schedule undermines their natural
process of discovery. If your husband were rebuilding an engine,
would you ask him to put it back in the car before he came in for
lunch? He'd probably respond with a pretty darn "snotty tone" if you
did ;)
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
unschooled, and stepmom to Ray (13) who's new to our home and
unschooling.
> If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses thatWhat kinds of suggestions are you making? I usually start by asking
> whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
> just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style
my 5yr old questions if I think she needs my input for some reason.
When she whines or screams at me I take it as a sign that I haven't
been listening or responding to her needs very promptly - with a
toddler underfoot you may have been saying a lot of "hold on...in a
minute...not right now...later...I'm in the middle of something..."
all that can add up to a huge bill of frustration for a kid.
A whole lot of unschooling younger kids has to do with being
proactive in making sure they have the tools they need to be
autonomous and looking carefully for nonverbal cues. Some kids are
great at being able to tell you what they want/need and listen to
explanations, but alot aren't. Mine's not. She's waaaaaay better
than she used to be, but she's still not the most conversational of
children, so looking for non-verbal cues and patterns is a big part
of how I help her get her needs met.
> It seems people justone
> change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how does
> handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips atoy
> from her handOkay, these are all Great places to look for ways to be proactive.
Why would a child hit (etc) another? Well, she might be hungry, or
tired or feeling out of control or frustrated or.... She doesn't
have the means to asses her own internal state and communicate it in
a clear way, yet, so part of mom's job is to be aware of those
possibilities and seek to address them *before* it gets to the
hitting stage. That's not about rules at all, its about how to be a
better mom.
Some of that involves being aware of patterns - how long has it been
since she had some protein? how many times has she needed a grown-up
to help her, today? how often has she felt "second best" to the
toddler? Some of it involves mom being available in the moment - I
mean right there on the floor with the kids, not trying to get the
dishes washed and laundry folded while the kids play. If you are
right there in the middle of things, you have the chance to see the
frown and ask "can I help" or catch the hand before it hits.
>talks in that snotty tone of voiceYou've mentioned this a couple times, so clearly its an issue for
you. I'd suggest you look at a couple different things, here. First
of all, what tone of voice do *you* use and what kind of language do
you use with your dd? Sometimes that snotty tone is what We sound
like to Them. Oops. Make a concious effort to listen to yourself,
especially when you are saying something like "Not now". Also watch
out for times when you may be "lecturing" her - I don't know anyone,
kid or grown who likes to be lectured, but so far I've never met a
parent who doesn't at least do it occasionally (accidentally - I do
it myself). Its also a possible source of "snotty tone".
>>cleaning up....My gosh, there are whole threads on this topic alone! Really, I'd
recommend reading the archives both here and at Always Unschooled:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
which is a board with a focus on unschooling with little kids, even
pre-school and babies.
I guess a short answer is to look for alternatives - ways to
simplify cleanup for you or make it less of an issue overall.
The one idea I would pull from your post for you to consider
is "when you are done" - children aren't ever really *done* playing,
and often will multitask in their play and have several different
things going on at the same time. My 5yr old will sometimes have a
project of game involving toys that lasts for several days, even
though she will leave it for hours at a time to do other things.
Asking kids to clean up on *our* schedule undermines their natural
process of discovery. If your husband were rebuilding an engine,
would you ask him to put it back in the car before he came in for
lunch? He'd probably respond with a pretty darn "snotty tone" if you
did ;)
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Welcome Pam, I suggest you do a lot f reading. These sites are the best:
http://sandradodd.com
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://www.naturalchild.com/
And on APrenting I love this 4 books, They are the best!!!!!!!!!!!
PArenting a Free Child by Rue Kream
http://www.freechild.info/
The Natural Child- PArenting from the Heart by Jan Hunt
http://www.naturalchild.com/
Raising our Children Raising Ourselves by NAomi Aldort ( this one will help you a lot with you 5 year old- to change how you deal and how you see your child)
http://naomialdort.com/
And
Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Khon
There are other good books and read but I think these are really great and have been great for me.
Alex
http://sandradodd.com
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://www.naturalchild.com/
And on APrenting I love this 4 books, They are the best!!!!!!!!!!!
PArenting a Free Child by Rue Kream
http://www.freechild.info/
The Natural Child- PArenting from the Heart by Jan Hunt
http://www.naturalchild.com/
Raising our Children Raising Ourselves by NAomi Aldort ( this one will help you a lot with you 5 year old- to change how you deal and how you see your child)
http://naomialdort.com/
And
Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Khon
There are other good books and read but I think these are really great and have been great for me.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: pamela6000
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How to handle tough kids
Hello,
We are a new family to unschooling. We have two dds, 5 and 2. I had
my 5yro dd in preschool a bit and saw it squash her creativity and
cause behavior issues. I had to convince my dh..who is not an easy
person to convince and often times tells me to put her in school,but
actually it is working ok. (My parents still cannot understand
why,as they put it,"I would want to do that to MYSELF" and have no
free time, etc.)
The problem is that I do have days..maybe 3 a week, where I feel
like throwing my 5 yro the next school bus that comes down our
street! She was literally an angel until the 2yr old was born.
Since, she is controlling, bossy, tells many "stories", and many
times just mean to her sister or us. I have tried many approaches
but my patience wears thin and often I resort to yelling(which I
hate) but it seems to be the only thing that gets her attention. I
know she is tired and really still could benefit from a daytime nap
(I know this from the rare days she looks at bookS and falls asleep
for 2 hrs and afterward is so much nicer all day!)But she refused my
suggestions of a nap or even quiet time most days.
If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses that
whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style..but now as an
education style..which I get and really like. It seems people just
change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how does one
handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips a toy
from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. You can
say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could care less.
Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regarding
it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and waking
others is any different to another person who says you can play with
any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up or put
it away?? To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all on one
level and so it is important for us to be able to live/move around
in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered all over
all day!
Any insight..sorry I babbled a bit. I'm not sure I made any sense!
Thanks pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sheryl Shomler
Give her two choices that you can live with so that
she feels empowered and yet you feel in control.
For example: "we take quiet time at 1:00 or 2pm, which
would you prefer?" OR "quiet reading time is going to
be 1 hour or 1.5 hours..would you like to set the oven
time to one?" If you express that she has a choice she
will be less likely to fight or pressure you.
That's just an idea.
Sheryl
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
she feels empowered and yet you feel in control.
For example: "we take quiet time at 1:00 or 2pm, which
would you prefer?" OR "quiet reading time is going to
be 1 hour or 1.5 hours..would you like to set the oven
time to one?" If you express that she has a choice she
will be less likely to fight or pressure you.
That's just an idea.
Sheryl
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Sheryl Shomler
<sherylshomler@...> wrote:
controlling parenting style, but it still conceptualizes parent-
child interactions as revolving around a locus of control (either
mom in control -or- kid in control). Ultimately, radical unschooling
involves a shift in thinking away from the whole "who's in control"
question entirely.
Another way of thinking about this, is: why only two choices? Sure,
you don't want to bombard a young child with more options than she
can handle, but you also don't want to limit *yourself* to only a
couple of options. This is going back to the rules-vs-principles
idea.
behind these statements? Personally, I'd state the underlying
priciple as: Everyone's Needs are Important. Okay, so if mom needs a
break what are some other ways mom can get the time she needs
without setting some rather arbitrary limits? A movie, a bath, or a
trip to the playground could all, potenitally, meet the child's
needs while still honoring mom's, without any kind of arbirary
limits being set.
With a younger child, it isn't necessary to lay those all out as
possible choices, either. There's a certain amount of prediction and
understanding that comes from knowing our kids - my 5yr old is
unlikely to want a bath, for example, so *I* wouldn't offer one in
the hopes of getting some down time.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<sherylshomler@...> wrote:
>This can be a useful *step* in transitioning away from a more
> Give her two choices that you can live with so that
> she feels empowered and yet you feel in control.
>
controlling parenting style, but it still conceptualizes parent-
child interactions as revolving around a locus of control (either
mom in control -or- kid in control). Ultimately, radical unschooling
involves a shift in thinking away from the whole "who's in control"
question entirely.
Another way of thinking about this, is: why only two choices? Sure,
you don't want to bombard a young child with more options than she
can handle, but you also don't want to limit *yourself* to only a
couple of options. This is going back to the rules-vs-principles
idea.
> For example: "we take quiet time at 1:00 or 2pm, whichTo me, this looks like "lets make a rule" - but what is the *why*
> would you prefer?" OR "quiet reading time is going to
> be 1 hour or 1.5 hours.
behind these statements? Personally, I'd state the underlying
priciple as: Everyone's Needs are Important. Okay, so if mom needs a
break what are some other ways mom can get the time she needs
without setting some rather arbitrary limits? A movie, a bath, or a
trip to the playground could all, potenitally, meet the child's
needs while still honoring mom's, without any kind of arbirary
limits being set.
With a younger child, it isn't necessary to lay those all out as
possible choices, either. There's a certain amount of prediction and
understanding that comes from knowing our kids - my 5yr old is
unlikely to want a bath, for example, so *I* wouldn't offer one in
the hopes of getting some down time.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
pamela6000
Thanks for all your book ideas. I will start reading (again) read
some..like unconditional parenting...and others...did not help much
at all though.
Thanks
pam
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
how you see your child)
some..like unconditional parenting...and others...did not help much
at all though.
Thanks
pam
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
>best:
> Welcome Pam, I suggest you do a lot f reading. These sites are the
>will help you a lot with you 5 year old- to change how you deal and
>
> http://sandradodd.com
>
> http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
>
>
> http://www.naturalchild.com/
>
>
>
> And on APrenting I love this 4 books, They are the best!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> PArenting a Free Child by Rue Kream
> http://www.freechild.info/
>
>
>
> The Natural Child- PArenting from the Heart by Jan Hunt
> http://www.naturalchild.com/
>
>
> Raising our Children Raising Ourselves by NAomi Aldort ( this one
how you see your child)
> http://naomialdort.com/great and have been great for me.
>
> And
>
> Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Khon
>
> There are other good books and read but I think these are really
> Alexhad
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pamela6000
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 PM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How to handle tough kids
>
>
> Hello,
> We are a new family to unschooling. We have two dds, 5 and 2. I
> my 5yro dd in preschool a bit and saw it squash her creativityand
> cause behavior issues. I had to convince my dh..who is not aneasy
> person to convince and often times tells me to put her inschool,but
> actually it is working ok. (My parents still cannot understandno
> why,as they put it,"I would want to do that to MYSELF" and have
> free time, etc.)approaches
> The problem is that I do have days..maybe 3 a week, where I feel
> like throwing my 5 yro the next school bus that comes down our
> street! She was literally an angel until the 2yr old was born.
> Since, she is controlling, bossy, tells many "stories", and many
> times just mean to her sister or us. I have tried many
> but my patience wears thin and often I resort to yelling(which II
> hate) but it seems to be the only thing that gets her attention.
> know she is tired and really still could benefit from a daytimenap
> (I know this from the rare days she looks at bookS and fallsasleep
> for 2 hrs and afterward is so much nicer all day!)But sherefused my
> suggestions of a nap or even quiet time most days.as an
>
> If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses that
> whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
> just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style..but now
> education style..which I get and really like. It seems peoplejust
> change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how doesone
> handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips atoy
> from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. Youcan
> say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could careless.
> Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regardingwaking
> it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and
> others is any different to another person who says you can playwith
> any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up orput
> it away?? To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all onone
> level and so it is important for us to be able to live/movearound
> in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered allover
> all day!sense!
> Any insight..sorry I babbled a bit. I'm not sure I made any
> Thanks pam
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
pamela6000
--Thanks for the help and posts. THere are some really good
suggestions, like checking my own tone of voice and being more
available in the momment to the kids.
However, sometimes it sounds like parents here realy are just all
permissive...and feel that everything their kids do...is because of
you as parents...not listening or being in tune with your kids. I
have a hard time buying that. Sometimes kids steal toys away or hit
because they just want to toy! I am still not sure not taking any
action is the answer. I have been down on the floor playing with the
kids when this stuff has happened...not always but often. It happens
quickley...right before my eyes...I could not have prevented it!
BUt what to do ...WHEN it happens is more my question here. Doing
nothing..or just suggesting over and over until you are blue in the
face...not respectful..how would you feel if...this does not seem to
work long term. I will read more books though.
I did read "Unconditional Parenting" which I liked..but he never
gave much at all in the way of handling certain situations that we
all run accross..so while on paper it sounds great..not sure how
practical it really is.
JUst my thoughts.
Thanks
pam
- In [email protected], "pamela6000"
<pamela6000@...> wrote:
suggestions, like checking my own tone of voice and being more
available in the momment to the kids.
However, sometimes it sounds like parents here realy are just all
permissive...and feel that everything their kids do...is because of
you as parents...not listening or being in tune with your kids. I
have a hard time buying that. Sometimes kids steal toys away or hit
because they just want to toy! I am still not sure not taking any
action is the answer. I have been down on the floor playing with the
kids when this stuff has happened...not always but often. It happens
quickley...right before my eyes...I could not have prevented it!
BUt what to do ...WHEN it happens is more my question here. Doing
nothing..or just suggesting over and over until you are blue in the
face...not respectful..how would you feel if...this does not seem to
work long term. I will read more books though.
I did read "Unconditional Parenting" which I liked..but he never
gave much at all in the way of handling certain situations that we
all run accross..so while on paper it sounds great..not sure how
practical it really is.
JUst my thoughts.
Thanks
pam
- In [email protected], "pamela6000"
<pamela6000@...> wrote:
>had
> Hello,
> We are a new family to unschooling. We have two dds, 5 and 2. I
> my 5yro dd in preschool a bit and saw it squash her creativity andschool,but
> cause behavior issues. I had to convince my dh..who is not an easy
> person to convince and often times tells me to put her in
> actually it is working ok. (My parents still cannot understandasleep
> why,as they put it,"I would want to do that to MYSELF" and have no
> free time, etc.)
> The problem is that I do have days..maybe 3 a week, where I feel
> like throwing my 5 yro the next school bus that comes down our
> street! She was literally an angel until the 2yr old was born.
> Since, she is controlling, bossy, tells many "stories", and many
> times just mean to her sister or us. I have tried many approaches
> but my patience wears thin and often I resort to yelling(which I
> hate) but it seems to be the only thing that gets her attention. I
> know she is tired and really still could benefit from a daytime nap
> (I know this from the rare days she looks at bookS and falls
> for 2 hrs and afterward is so much nicer all day!)But she refusedmy
> suggestions of a nap or even quiet time most days.an
>
> If/when, I make suggestions to her, she often uses that
> whinny,snotty voice and says or screams her answers. I am really
> just confussed about unschooling as a parenting style..but now as
> education style..which I get and really like. It seems people justone
> change words around like principles for rules. I mean..how does
> handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips atoy
> from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. You canwaking
> say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could care less.
> Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regarding
> it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and
> others is any different to another person who says you can playwith
> any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up orput
> it away?? To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all on one
> level and so it is important for us to be able to live/move around
> in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered all over
> all day!
> Any insight..sorry I babbled a bit. I'm not sure I made any sense!
> Thanks pam
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 27, 2007, at 2:46 PM, pamela6000 wrote:
understanding, their skills, and their emotional maturity.
emotion.
It doesn't help the relationship to jump to the conclusion the child
is selfish and mean. Think about when you've made a mistake and
someone made the assumption you did it deliberately. How did you
feel? Doesn't it make you angry? And then the focus moves from
finding better ways to solve something to defending yourself.
help others away from are anger and punishment and actions that
interfere with relationship building.
If a child needs something, they need help getting it, not anger that
they're doing it wrong. They need reminding that hitting isn't
acceptable.
and calling one child away or finding something new to do.
But sometimes the actions come out of no where. The goal isn't to
stop kids from hitting -- that will happen as a side effect -- but to
help them find ways that are better, that aren't hurtful.
impulses. You can't teach her skills she's not ready to handle any
more than you can teach a 6 mo to walk. It will happen with time.
In the mean time, be aware of their tension level. Keep them out of
reach of each other. Arrange breaks with each other.
It also sounds like she's jealous. She was the baby in the family and
suddenly she's been displaced by something that the parents find
newer and better. It's like a death has occurred in her life and
everyone expects her to be happy about it and be nice to what has
displaced her.
A really good book is Siblings Without Rivalry. It's a very easy read.
Until you can get inside her head and understand the total upheaval
you've imposed on her life and see what it looks like and feels like
from inside her, you're going to have a hard time responding in ways
that make sense to her.
The traditional way is to *make* them think right. They *need* to get
over the feeling the baby's an interloper and start to like it. Which
causes huge breakdowns in relationships and only makes the behavior
worse.
How would you feel if your husband brought a new wife home? What if
he got angry that you wouldn't embrace her with as much happiness as
he had? Would that make you warmer towards her?
From your daughter's point of view there was no reason you would
bring another child into the house. You had her. Why would you need
another? And yet you did. And you've been upset that she hasn't
thought it was a great thing.
What she needs is sympathy and understanding. She needs to feel that
it's okay to feel displaced.
Think of it this way: If it were raining and she was upset because
she wanted to go outside, would it be better to get frustrated with
her upsetness because there was nothing anyone could do about it and
she'd just better accept it, or to sympathize and talk about what a
great time it could have been?
situations with new eyes rather than applying solution x to situation
y. It's being aware of the causes of the behavior and rearranging
what and how you do things to bring the tension level down.
The biggest help you can give her is changing your overall treatment
towards her. The more you fill her up, the less she'll feel a need to
steal what used to be hers from her sister. See her as the displaced
wife who is still pissed after all these years and *help* her find
ways to be happy.
You need to be aware that these tensions exist and steer the kids
away from situations where the anger builds up. Call her away for
important things like to help you make lunch or to put some clothes
away upstairs.
they are less likely to understand being quiet for someone else but
the more their needs are treated with respect, the more they
reciprocate. When they know others are working hard to help them get
what they need, they feel the same towards others. (When they're old
enough.) When people's needs are filled to the brim and are
overflowing, there's no need to be mean and fight with others for
limited resources.
Right now your older daughter feels that attention and love are
limited resources and she needs to eliminate the rival to get as much
as she needs.
Arrange to take her out on her own occasionally, just the two of you.
Talk about how hard it is to have a little sister. Talk about the fun
parts too. Everything has a good and bad side! There's a big
difference between finding ways to be positive and cope with a bad
situation, and pretending there's no bad part and it's all good.
That's where she is right now. She's seeing all the bad parts and
from her point of view you're saying "La de da, isn't life grand!
(Except for when you misbehave.)"
shift to make that will help you understand what we're talking about
and help you start building relationships rather than contributing to
the tension. You will improve your relationship immensely if you can
see that just because you are certain something is important (and
sensible!) that not everyone is going to feel that way. And the
sooner you accept that it's important to you and you alone and
shouldn't be imposed on someone else, the less tension there will be
around it and the better your relationship with be.
If your husband loved football, would it help if he insisted that you
watch? Would it help if he made you watch until you understood how
important football is?
You can invite them to help. (And treat it as help a friend might
give.) You can ask them to do specific tasks. (Could you put the red
truck in the bin for me?) You can turn things into games. (Others
will have other suggestions.) All are relationship building and don't
build a negative atmosphere around cleaning.
There's a lot about seeing the world through kids' points of view at
my website:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> and feel that everything their kids do...is because ofI think everything kids do is because of their level of
> you as parents...not listening or being in tune with your kids.
understanding, their skills, and their emotional maturity.
> Sometimes kids steal toys away or hitBecause they don't have the skills or the ability to not react to an
> because they just want to toy!
emotion.
It doesn't help the relationship to jump to the conclusion the child
is selfish and mean. Think about when you've made a mistake and
someone made the assumption you did it deliberately. How did you
feel? Doesn't it make you angry? And then the focus moves from
finding better ways to solve something to defending yourself.
> I am still not sure not taking anyNo one has ever said don't take action. The actions people here will
> action is the answer.
help others away from are anger and punishment and actions that
interfere with relationship building.
If a child needs something, they need help getting it, not anger that
they're doing it wrong. They need reminding that hitting isn't
acceptable.
> I could not have prevented it!Some situations can be averted by being aware of tension building up
and calling one child away or finding something new to do.
But sometimes the actions come out of no where. The goal isn't to
stop kids from hitting -- that will happen as a side effect -- but to
help them find ways that are better, that aren't hurtful.
> BUt what to do ...WHEN it happens is more my question here. DoingIf it's happening over and over, she's too young to control her
> nothing..or just suggesting over and over until you are blue in the
> face...not respectful..how would you feel if...this does not seem to
> work long term.
impulses. You can't teach her skills she's not ready to handle any
more than you can teach a 6 mo to walk. It will happen with time.
In the mean time, be aware of their tension level. Keep them out of
reach of each other. Arrange breaks with each other.
It also sounds like she's jealous. She was the baby in the family and
suddenly she's been displaced by something that the parents find
newer and better. It's like a death has occurred in her life and
everyone expects her to be happy about it and be nice to what has
displaced her.
A really good book is Siblings Without Rivalry. It's a very easy read.
Until you can get inside her head and understand the total upheaval
you've imposed on her life and see what it looks like and feels like
from inside her, you're going to have a hard time responding in ways
that make sense to her.
The traditional way is to *make* them think right. They *need* to get
over the feeling the baby's an interloper and start to like it. Which
causes huge breakdowns in relationships and only makes the behavior
worse.
How would you feel if your husband brought a new wife home? What if
he got angry that you wouldn't embrace her with as much happiness as
he had? Would that make you warmer towards her?
From your daughter's point of view there was no reason you would
bring another child into the house. You had her. Why would you need
another? And yet you did. And you've been upset that she hasn't
thought it was a great thing.
What she needs is sympathy and understanding. She needs to feel that
it's okay to feel displaced.
Think of it this way: If it were raining and she was upset because
she wanted to go outside, would it be better to get frustrated with
her upsetness because there was nothing anyone could do about it and
she'd just better accept it, or to sympathize and talk about what a
great time it could have been?
> I did read "Unconditional Parenting" which I liked..but he neverBecause a lot of it is a change in perspective. Seeing the
> gave much at all in the way of handling certain situations that we
> all run accross..so while on paper it sounds great..not sure how
> practical it really is.
situations with new eyes rather than applying solution x to situation
y. It's being aware of the causes of the behavior and rearranging
what and how you do things to bring the tension level down.
> I mean..how does oneBy reading Siblings Without Rivalry! And Sandra Dodd's website.
> handle it when your child smacks, or kicks a sibling, or rips a toy
> from her hand,talks in that snotty tone of voice, etc etc. You can
> say it is disrespectful to her..,etc etc..but she could care less.
The biggest help you can give her is changing your overall treatment
towards her. The more you fill her up, the less she'll feel a need to
steal what used to be hers from her sister. See her as the displaced
wife who is still pissed after all these years and *help* her find
ways to be happy.
You need to be aware that these tensions exist and steer the kids
away from situations where the anger builds up. Call her away for
important things like to help you make lunch or to put some clothes
away upstairs.
> Also, how can someone say that a LIMIT and a contract regardingBecause of the way kids view the world. When they're really young,
> it..such as staying up late as long as they are not loud and waking
> others is any different to another person who says you can play with
> any toys you want, as long as when you are done, you clean up or put
> it away??
they are less likely to understand being quiet for someone else but
the more their needs are treated with respect, the more they
reciprocate. When they know others are working hard to help them get
what they need, they feel the same towards others. (When they're old
enough.) When people's needs are filled to the brim and are
overflowing, there's no need to be mean and fight with others for
limited resources.
Right now your older daughter feels that attention and love are
limited resources and she needs to eliminate the rival to get as much
as she needs.
Arrange to take her out on her own occasionally, just the two of you.
Talk about how hard it is to have a little sister. Talk about the fun
parts too. Everything has a good and bad side! There's a big
difference between finding ways to be positive and cope with a bad
situation, and pretending there's no bad part and it's all good.
That's where she is right now. She's seeing all the bad parts and
from her point of view you're saying "La de da, isn't life grand!
(Except for when you misbehave.)"
> To me it is the same . We have a smaller home all on oneNo, it's important to *you*. That's a really really important mental
> level and so it is important for us to be able to live/move around
> in the home when the toys are picked up and not scattered all over
> all day!
shift to make that will help you understand what we're talking about
and help you start building relationships rather than contributing to
the tension. You will improve your relationship immensely if you can
see that just because you are certain something is important (and
sensible!) that not everyone is going to feel that way. And the
sooner you accept that it's important to you and you alone and
shouldn't be imposed on someone else, the less tension there will be
around it and the better your relationship with be.
If your husband loved football, would it help if he insisted that you
watch? Would it help if he made you watch until you understood how
important football is?
You can invite them to help. (And treat it as help a friend might
give.) You can ask them to do specific tasks. (Could you put the red
truck in the bin for me?) You can turn things into games. (Others
will have other suggestions.) All are relationship building and don't
build a negative atmosphere around cleaning.
There's a lot about seeing the world through kids' points of view at
my website:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamela svec
Thank you for your thoughts and advice!
pamela
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
pamela
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com