Sad situation
Michelle Leifur Reid
My co-parent, Dan, and I just got back from a long weekend in
Portland, Oregon and have come home to a huge mess. We left our
children in the care of my mother after many very long conversations
about respecting my children's routines and many other things. My
mother assured me repeatedly that she was not going to do anything
that would disturb their lives. The first night after we left I got a
frantic phone call from Emily (14) because my mother sat them down and
gave them this huge list of rules about what they could and couldn't
do and what she expected of them (very early bedtimes, no computers,
cell phones, video games, limited tv, food only that she gives them,
etc. etc. etc.) Basically exactly opposite of what she assured me she
wouldn't do. Emily was threatening to run away and was begging me to
let her go stay at the house by herself. I just wasn't comfortable
yet with that, maybe next year or if we were in a different
neighborhood where the neighbors actually are concerned with what
happens with each other and know each other. Fortunatly, I was able
to get Rose (a quiet member of our list who rarely posts and lives in
our same town) on the phone. She agreed to go "rescue" Emily. I
actually had to have Dan talk to her because I was crying so badly
with all the anger I had about my mother. Of course my mother greatly
chastized me for "interfering" and that I didn't allow her to "work
things through" with Emily (interpretation for those of you that don't
translate my mother's verbiage - break her to do my will, but make her
think it was her idea). There were several times this past weekend
where I felt like some failure of a parent because of things that my
mother said to me. Of course I know none of it is true, but it is so
easy for me to go into that "I'm not worthy because my mother doesn't
approve" stage.
Anyway, my mother things I've done wrong because I interfered and I
felt that I did right because my child asked me to help her and I did.
My mom says that my interference has impacted our relationship and I
feel that my interference preserved the one that I have with my child
(who I do have to live with at least for four more years). I'm glad
that my younger two children are a bit more flexible, but at the
moment they are in glommed onto the tv, soaking in it all. I'm sure
it will be a while before they can trust again that their lives are
back to normal. The sad thing is that my mother thinks she was so
good at watching the kids because they went to bed when she told them
to, stopped watching tv when she told them to and only ate what she
allowed them to. :-( And she wonders why we want to move nearly
3,000 miles away.
I know that there is major damage that has been done with my
relationship with my mom. I know now that I can never trust her again
to care for my children and Dan and I are making serious changes to
our will this week so that she won't be the primary care giver if
something were to happen to us. I just feel so betrayed.
Michelle - who is going to be busy in the next few weeks working to
get her house ready to put on the market
Portland, Oregon and have come home to a huge mess. We left our
children in the care of my mother after many very long conversations
about respecting my children's routines and many other things. My
mother assured me repeatedly that she was not going to do anything
that would disturb their lives. The first night after we left I got a
frantic phone call from Emily (14) because my mother sat them down and
gave them this huge list of rules about what they could and couldn't
do and what she expected of them (very early bedtimes, no computers,
cell phones, video games, limited tv, food only that she gives them,
etc. etc. etc.) Basically exactly opposite of what she assured me she
wouldn't do. Emily was threatening to run away and was begging me to
let her go stay at the house by herself. I just wasn't comfortable
yet with that, maybe next year or if we were in a different
neighborhood where the neighbors actually are concerned with what
happens with each other and know each other. Fortunatly, I was able
to get Rose (a quiet member of our list who rarely posts and lives in
our same town) on the phone. She agreed to go "rescue" Emily. I
actually had to have Dan talk to her because I was crying so badly
with all the anger I had about my mother. Of course my mother greatly
chastized me for "interfering" and that I didn't allow her to "work
things through" with Emily (interpretation for those of you that don't
translate my mother's verbiage - break her to do my will, but make her
think it was her idea). There were several times this past weekend
where I felt like some failure of a parent because of things that my
mother said to me. Of course I know none of it is true, but it is so
easy for me to go into that "I'm not worthy because my mother doesn't
approve" stage.
Anyway, my mother things I've done wrong because I interfered and I
felt that I did right because my child asked me to help her and I did.
My mom says that my interference has impacted our relationship and I
feel that my interference preserved the one that I have with my child
(who I do have to live with at least for four more years). I'm glad
that my younger two children are a bit more flexible, but at the
moment they are in glommed onto the tv, soaking in it all. I'm sure
it will be a while before they can trust again that their lives are
back to normal. The sad thing is that my mother thinks she was so
good at watching the kids because they went to bed when she told them
to, stopped watching tv when she told them to and only ate what she
allowed them to. :-( And she wonders why we want to move nearly
3,000 miles away.
I know that there is major damage that has been done with my
relationship with my mom. I know now that I can never trust her again
to care for my children and Dan and I are making serious changes to
our will this week so that she won't be the primary care giver if
something were to happen to us. I just feel so betrayed.
Michelle - who is going to be busy in the next few weeks working to
get her house ready to put on the market
wuweimama
--- In [email protected], "Michelle Leifur Reid"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
away from your children. I don't quite understand the purpose of the
trip and details of not being able to returning home. But I am glad
that you have gained so much awareness about your mother's needs for
control and desires to "help" in the manner that she sees fit,
regardless of your own (and children's?) boundaries. That information
will certainly allow you to understand her "agreement" in the future.
From your note, it sounds like your younger children were "agreeable"
to remain with grandma? And that they similarly felt empowered to call
for "rescuing", IF they felt they desired it? These have been my
criteria for leaving ds with anyone: that he is loved by the
caregiver, that *he* has a recourse and ability to access me, that I
trust that his *will* about his needs will be honored, and that I will
return at the absolute first opportunity if he feels that he needs *me*.
I can certainly give you empathy for your experience of anger and
frustration. But, I am stuck wondering about the children continuing
with your mother after she was "caught" disregarding your wishes. My
inclination is to recognize your mother's underlying needs for
"helping" on her own terms in her own home; but the betrayal of your
agreement when you were vulnerable to alter the situation would have
had me at her door step on the next plane, regardless. As you
mentioned, your connection, trust and relationship with your children
is paramount. Even over the probable $1000+ last minute, one-way air
fare, imo. I don't want to be Monday-Morning-Quaterbacking here, but
want to empathize the huge damage control costs associated with this
situation. Do your children also feel a similar betrayal?
Of course, "children are resilient" is a common self-supportive
mantra. But, I would examine the circumstances leading up to the
situation and determine ways that the feelings and needs of all
parties, including your mother, could have more accurately and
forthrightly been addressed. Apparently, your mother does not feel
that she can have her needs in her own home met, within the
constraints (actually freedoms), that your children desire. That is
either something to avoid, or something to discuss further. Knowing
perhaps, that this situation will NEVER happen again, it is easiest to
move on and just be glad for what you have learned, with as little
damage (or none) that occured, BECAUSE your children are empowered and
trust that their needs would be addressed by you all at any point that
they were voiced, even if grandma has some silly rules.
I hope that you can find some perspective to understand your mom's
position of wanting something that was "forbidden". It isn't unlike
children who are "not allowed", they still desire what they want, even
if they have to sneak to have it.
Pat
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>I just feel so betrayed.
>Michelle, Wow! That sounds horrible to experience while being so far
away from your children. I don't quite understand the purpose of the
trip and details of not being able to returning home. But I am glad
that you have gained so much awareness about your mother's needs for
control and desires to "help" in the manner that she sees fit,
regardless of your own (and children's?) boundaries. That information
will certainly allow you to understand her "agreement" in the future.
From your note, it sounds like your younger children were "agreeable"
to remain with grandma? And that they similarly felt empowered to call
for "rescuing", IF they felt they desired it? These have been my
criteria for leaving ds with anyone: that he is loved by the
caregiver, that *he* has a recourse and ability to access me, that I
trust that his *will* about his needs will be honored, and that I will
return at the absolute first opportunity if he feels that he needs *me*.
I can certainly give you empathy for your experience of anger and
frustration. But, I am stuck wondering about the children continuing
with your mother after she was "caught" disregarding your wishes. My
inclination is to recognize your mother's underlying needs for
"helping" on her own terms in her own home; but the betrayal of your
agreement when you were vulnerable to alter the situation would have
had me at her door step on the next plane, regardless. As you
mentioned, your connection, trust and relationship with your children
is paramount. Even over the probable $1000+ last minute, one-way air
fare, imo. I don't want to be Monday-Morning-Quaterbacking here, but
want to empathize the huge damage control costs associated with this
situation. Do your children also feel a similar betrayal?
Of course, "children are resilient" is a common self-supportive
mantra. But, I would examine the circumstances leading up to the
situation and determine ways that the feelings and needs of all
parties, including your mother, could have more accurately and
forthrightly been addressed. Apparently, your mother does not feel
that she can have her needs in her own home met, within the
constraints (actually freedoms), that your children desire. That is
either something to avoid, or something to discuss further. Knowing
perhaps, that this situation will NEVER happen again, it is easiest to
move on and just be glad for what you have learned, with as little
damage (or none) that occured, BECAUSE your children are empowered and
trust that their needs would be addressed by you all at any point that
they were voiced, even if grandma has some silly rules.
I hope that you can find some perspective to understand your mom's
position of wanting something that was "forbidden". It isn't unlike
children who are "not allowed", they still desire what they want, even
if they have to sneak to have it.
Pat
[email protected]
I'm so sorry, Michelle. Sending you all a big hug.
I'll be thinking of you getting the house ready, too!
Thank you for being such an inspiring voice on this list....you are a great
mom.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll be thinking of you getting the house ready, too!
Thank you for being such an inspiring voice on this list....you are a great
mom.
~Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 12/19/06, wuweimama <wuweimama@...> wrote:
$1,000 for the two of us to return at a moment's notice (which we
don't have and don't use credit cards - if we don't have it we don't
spend it) and with the difficulties we had in getting there due to
weather and full flights, getting home may have been unavailable at
the last minute. And yes, my children do feel betrayed and my girls
could care less if they have anything to do with their grandmother
again. Mary Elayne (11) we refer to as our "future lawyer" not
because she will be one, but because she argues like one. She kept
quoting what my mother had agreed to and my mother kept doing that
"Texas two-stepping dance" around it. My dad was no help as he just
kept saying, "War's hell"
My mother is very angry that I chose to get invovled instead of using
her mantra of "It will be interesting how you work this out." (I heard
that most of my life when I would go to her with problems.) How dare
I rule over her head from 3,000 miles away!
Knowing
amazed at how well we have slipped back into our old lives so easily.
I truly feared I would have a lot of repair work to do, but aside from
extra cuddles and hugs (which I did expect having been away for 5
days) today isn't much different from last week before I left.
and went to midwives instead of OB's for prenatal care (although I did
have c/s's), my mother thought I was being foolish. When I chose to
breastfeed I was "limiting myself" by having to be with the baby all
the time (she also didn't like it that my breastfeeding kept her from
keeping the babies overnight like my brother's child did when she was
a baby). When I chose to allow my children to wean naturally I was
told that they were too old to be "doing that" and I would never have
any time to myself. When I chose to homeschool I was neglecting their
educational needs because I could never do all that the schools do for
them. When I chose to parent gently, it was a slap in my mom's face
because she raised me "just fine" the way she did it and all this "ap
crap" would just make for selfish and controlling children. When I
allowed Emily to leave school in the middle of 5th grade (after having
been homeschooled previously) I was making a mistake. I have that gut
feeling that my really felt that she had an opportunity to "fix" my
kids in one week. Like in one week she would be able to "undo" all
the "damage" that I have caused my kids in their lifetimes. (sigh)
My relationship with my mother is quite complex. And my mother's
opinion of my children is even more complex. Looking back I have seen
all the warning signs that leaving them with her was a wrong decision
on my part. Things like her asking, "ALL of them?" when I asked her
if she would be willing to let them stay with her for 5 nights or
calling me up on Monday to ask when the "little monsters" are coming
over.
Sometimes I wish I could just scream "do over" and back up.
Michelle
>. As youReturning was just not an option. You are right it would have been
> mentioned, your connection, trust and relationship with your children
> is paramount. Even over the probable $1000+ last minute, one-way air
> fare, imo. I don't want to be Monday-Morning-Quaterbacking here, but
> want to empathize the huge damage control costs associated with this
> situation. Do your children also feel a similar betrayal?
$1,000 for the two of us to return at a moment's notice (which we
don't have and don't use credit cards - if we don't have it we don't
spend it) and with the difficulties we had in getting there due to
weather and full flights, getting home may have been unavailable at
the last minute. And yes, my children do feel betrayed and my girls
could care less if they have anything to do with their grandmother
again. Mary Elayne (11) we refer to as our "future lawyer" not
because she will be one, but because she argues like one. She kept
quoting what my mother had agreed to and my mother kept doing that
"Texas two-stepping dance" around it. My dad was no help as he just
kept saying, "War's hell"
My mother is very angry that I chose to get invovled instead of using
her mantra of "It will be interesting how you work this out." (I heard
that most of my life when I would go to her with problems.) How dare
I rule over her head from 3,000 miles away!
Knowing
> perhaps, that this situation will NEVER happen again, it is easiest toYes, I know that this will never happen again. I've actually been
> move on and just be glad for what you have learned, with as little
> damage (or none) that occured, BECAUSE your children are empowered and
> trust that their needs would be addressed by you all at any point that
> they were voiced, even if grandma has some silly rules.
amazed at how well we have slipped back into our old lives so easily.
I truly feared I would have a lot of repair work to do, but aside from
extra cuddles and hugs (which I did expect having been away for 5
days) today isn't much different from last week before I left.
>My mom has never approved of the way I parent. When I was pregnant
> I hope that you can find some perspective to understand your mom's
> position of wanting something that was "forbidden". It isn't unlike
> children who are "not allowed", they still desire what they want, even
> if they have to sneak to have it.
and went to midwives instead of OB's for prenatal care (although I did
have c/s's), my mother thought I was being foolish. When I chose to
breastfeed I was "limiting myself" by having to be with the baby all
the time (she also didn't like it that my breastfeeding kept her from
keeping the babies overnight like my brother's child did when she was
a baby). When I chose to allow my children to wean naturally I was
told that they were too old to be "doing that" and I would never have
any time to myself. When I chose to homeschool I was neglecting their
educational needs because I could never do all that the schools do for
them. When I chose to parent gently, it was a slap in my mom's face
because she raised me "just fine" the way she did it and all this "ap
crap" would just make for selfish and controlling children. When I
allowed Emily to leave school in the middle of 5th grade (after having
been homeschooled previously) I was making a mistake. I have that gut
feeling that my really felt that she had an opportunity to "fix" my
kids in one week. Like in one week she would be able to "undo" all
the "damage" that I have caused my kids in their lifetimes. (sigh)
My relationship with my mother is quite complex. And my mother's
opinion of my children is even more complex. Looking back I have seen
all the warning signs that leaving them with her was a wrong decision
on my part. Things like her asking, "ALL of them?" when I asked her
if she would be willing to let them stay with her for 5 nights or
calling me up on Monday to ask when the "little monsters" are coming
over.
Sometimes I wish I could just scream "do over" and back up.
Michelle
Sylvia Toyama
I know that there is major damage that has been done with my
relationship with my mom. I know now that I can never trust her again
to care for my children and Dan and I are making serious changes to
our will this week so that she won't be the primary care giver if
something were to happen to us. I just feel so betrayed.
*****
I'm recalling an earlier post when you talked about this plan for the kids to stay with your Mom while you were out of town. One where you anticipated problems for your Mom -- and given what you described then, it didn't sound as if she had any plans to respect your, or your children's, wishes. Knowing that as you did -- after all you posted about it -- why did you arrange for your kids to stay with her?
I'm sure there's trust lost, and relationship damage between you and your mom -- and between you and your kids. What I wonder is why you set it up to begin with? Maybe a look into what you expected would happen would help you sort thru this with your kids.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will (almost 22!) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (almost 6)
Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown
http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
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relationship with my mom. I know now that I can never trust her again
to care for my children and Dan and I are making serious changes to
our will this week so that she won't be the primary care giver if
something were to happen to us. I just feel so betrayed.
*****
I'm recalling an earlier post when you talked about this plan for the kids to stay with your Mom while you were out of town. One where you anticipated problems for your Mom -- and given what you described then, it didn't sound as if she had any plans to respect your, or your children's, wishes. Knowing that as you did -- after all you posted about it -- why did you arrange for your kids to stay with her?
I'm sure there's trust lost, and relationship damage between you and your mom -- and between you and your kids. What I wonder is why you set it up to begin with? Maybe a look into what you expected would happen would help you sort thru this with your kids.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will (almost 22!) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (almost 6)
Peace is the vibrant space which stimulates the dance of kindness, merriment and freedom. ~ unknown
http://ourhapahome.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Leifur Reid
On 12/19/06, Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
children were going to be safe and respected then I wouldn't have had
them stay there. You are missing a HUGE piece of the picture
including me doing A LOT of talking with my mom about what the kids
were expecting as well as what she was expecting of the kids. I left
reassured by my mom in front of my children that issues such as
bedtime, television, food, and access to computers would NOT be a
problem. We weren't on the plane 10 minutes before she completely did
a 180 and started enforcing rules. This isn't about me neglecting my
children but about my mother LYING to me, repeatedly! The longer the
weekend went the more rules that my mom piled on. My mother isn't one
that has a pattern of lying. I trusted her that when she said that the
way my children are used to doing things would be respected, even
going through what those expectations are. My mother has been quite
upfront in the past about things and vocal about her expectations. We
had several hours (spread out through the weeks leading up to our
departure) of discussing these things. I didn't just willy nilly
leave my children to run off for a frivolous weekend of glee with no
regard for their well-being (both mentally and physically). I'm
offended at the presumption of such. I would think it is apparant from
my collective posts that I do have my children's best interests at the
forefront of my mind and actions.
Michelle - not the mom from Second Hand Lions
> Knowing that as you did -- after all you posted about it -- why did you arrange for your kids to stay with her?I don't even know how to respond to this. If I didn't think that my
>
children were going to be safe and respected then I wouldn't have had
them stay there. You are missing a HUGE piece of the picture
including me doing A LOT of talking with my mom about what the kids
were expecting as well as what she was expecting of the kids. I left
reassured by my mom in front of my children that issues such as
bedtime, television, food, and access to computers would NOT be a
problem. We weren't on the plane 10 minutes before she completely did
a 180 and started enforcing rules. This isn't about me neglecting my
children but about my mother LYING to me, repeatedly! The longer the
weekend went the more rules that my mom piled on. My mother isn't one
that has a pattern of lying. I trusted her that when she said that the
way my children are used to doing things would be respected, even
going through what those expectations are. My mother has been quite
upfront in the past about things and vocal about her expectations. We
had several hours (spread out through the weeks leading up to our
departure) of discussing these things. I didn't just willy nilly
leave my children to run off for a frivolous weekend of glee with no
regard for their well-being (both mentally and physically). I'm
offended at the presumption of such. I would think it is apparant from
my collective posts that I do have my children's best interests at the
forefront of my mind and actions.
Michelle - not the mom from Second Hand Lions
Ren Allen
~~I don't even know how to respond to this. If I didn't think that my
children were going to be safe and respected then I wouldn't have had
them stay there. You are missing a HUGE piece of the picture
including me doing A LOT of talking with my mom about what the kids
were expecting as well as what she was expecting of the kids. ~~
Yes, but in an earlier post you referred to your very strong
misgivings about what would happen when you were gone. That was
probably your instincts talking! I think wanting to trust her is so
natural, but I don't think she'd earned your trust up to this point.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
children were going to be safe and respected then I wouldn't have had
them stay there. You are missing a HUGE piece of the picture
including me doing A LOT of talking with my mom about what the kids
were expecting as well as what she was expecting of the kids. ~~
Yes, but in an earlier post you referred to your very strong
misgivings about what would happen when you were gone. That was
probably your instincts talking! I think wanting to trust her is so
natural, but I don't think she'd earned your trust up to this point.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~I trusted her that when she said that the
way my children are used to doing things would be respected, even
going through what those expectations are. My mother has been quite
upfront in the past about things and vocal about her expectations. We
had several hours (spread out through the weeks leading up to our
departure) of discussing these things.~~
Is that really fair?
You're asking someone to watch your children, and do it YOUR way. I
think if someone watches your children, you should EXPECT them to run
things their way. I would prep my children for exactly the way Grandma
or Grandpa do things. If that wasn't to everyone's satisfaction, I
wouldn't leave them with those particular family members.
If I'm watching someone's children and they laid out a bunch of rules
I disagreed with, am I obliged to follow their rules? Hell no.
I think it's rather presumptuous to expect anyone else to do things as
a radical unschooler. It's not even fair to ask someone that doesn't
agree with you.
No, she shouldn't have agreed to it and lied. But I think the
expectations were completely unrealistic.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
way my children are used to doing things would be respected, even
going through what those expectations are. My mother has been quite
upfront in the past about things and vocal about her expectations. We
had several hours (spread out through the weeks leading up to our
departure) of discussing these things.~~
Is that really fair?
You're asking someone to watch your children, and do it YOUR way. I
think if someone watches your children, you should EXPECT them to run
things their way. I would prep my children for exactly the way Grandma
or Grandpa do things. If that wasn't to everyone's satisfaction, I
wouldn't leave them with those particular family members.
If I'm watching someone's children and they laid out a bunch of rules
I disagreed with, am I obliged to follow their rules? Hell no.
I think it's rather presumptuous to expect anyone else to do things as
a radical unschooler. It's not even fair to ask someone that doesn't
agree with you.
No, she shouldn't have agreed to it and lied. But I think the
expectations were completely unrealistic.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
You are missing a HUGE piece of the picture including me doing A LOT
of talking with my mom about what the kids were expecting as well as
what she was expecting of the kids.
*****
Here's what you said about the situation before leaving the kids with
your Mom, quoted from your post a couple of weeks ago. It's the only
piece of the picture I'd seen before you left the kids with your Mom.
<start snip>
I've not dealt with the rebelling issue. I have a feeling, though,
that my mother is going to deal with that this week. Dan and I are
flying up to Portland, OR on Thursday and the kids are all staying
with my mom. She has lots of rules: places and times for eating,
times for going to bed, limited electronic use (tv, computer, cell
phone), going to church (why she is insisting on taking 3 agnostic or
Pagan children to a Christian church is beyond me!). I'm sure when
we get back that my mom is going to have a long list of "rebel issues"
that I never see. We've assured the kids that we are just a cell
phone call away and we will intervene on their behalf. We've raised
our children with respect and we get that respect back. Not because
we "deserve" or "expect" it but because we show it.
Michelle
<end snip>
That is the only part of the picture you mentioned here. Even then,
it looked to me like you were heading for a bad week with Grandma.
It sounded like you'd told the kids they didn't have to do what
Grandma asked of them -- that they could just call you and you'd
intervene. Knowing you'd likely be called upon to intervene doesn't
sound like someone who had any reason to trust that things would work
out with Grandma. Besides that, do you feel it's respectful to be a
guest in someone's home and behave with total disregard for their
household practices and expectations? That was the situation you put
your Mom in -- she had houseguests who knew all they had to do was
call you to back them up when they wanted to disregard her
preferences in her own home.
And you're surprised it turned out badly?
I know you wanted to believe your Mom could be trusted to respect
your kids' preference, but given the lifestyle differences you were
probably asking for the impossible.
******
I didn't just willy nilly leave my children to run off for a
frivolous weekend of glee with no regard for their well-being (both
mentally and physically). I'm offended at the presumption of such.
I would think it is apparant from my collective posts that I do have
my children's best interests at the forefront of my mind and actions.
Michelle - not the mom from Second Hand Lions
******
Yes, it is apparent from your collecitve posts that you put your
kids' interests first. This was why your first post about the planned
stay with grandma surprised me. I commented on it earlier because it
seemed very out of character for you to put your kids in such a
potentially contentious situation where it was likely they'd be
treated disrespectfully. I'm sorry you're offended, but the whole
thing felt wrong to me, and I wondered why you'd left them with her,
when you expected 'rebelling issues.'
Sylvia
of talking with my mom about what the kids were expecting as well as
what she was expecting of the kids.
*****
Here's what you said about the situation before leaving the kids with
your Mom, quoted from your post a couple of weeks ago. It's the only
piece of the picture I'd seen before you left the kids with your Mom.
<start snip>
I've not dealt with the rebelling issue. I have a feeling, though,
that my mother is going to deal with that this week. Dan and I are
flying up to Portland, OR on Thursday and the kids are all staying
with my mom. She has lots of rules: places and times for eating,
times for going to bed, limited electronic use (tv, computer, cell
phone), going to church (why she is insisting on taking 3 agnostic or
Pagan children to a Christian church is beyond me!). I'm sure when
we get back that my mom is going to have a long list of "rebel issues"
that I never see. We've assured the kids that we are just a cell
phone call away and we will intervene on their behalf. We've raised
our children with respect and we get that respect back. Not because
we "deserve" or "expect" it but because we show it.
Michelle
<end snip>
That is the only part of the picture you mentioned here. Even then,
it looked to me like you were heading for a bad week with Grandma.
It sounded like you'd told the kids they didn't have to do what
Grandma asked of them -- that they could just call you and you'd
intervene. Knowing you'd likely be called upon to intervene doesn't
sound like someone who had any reason to trust that things would work
out with Grandma. Besides that, do you feel it's respectful to be a
guest in someone's home and behave with total disregard for their
household practices and expectations? That was the situation you put
your Mom in -- she had houseguests who knew all they had to do was
call you to back them up when they wanted to disregard her
preferences in her own home.
And you're surprised it turned out badly?
I know you wanted to believe your Mom could be trusted to respect
your kids' preference, but given the lifestyle differences you were
probably asking for the impossible.
******
I didn't just willy nilly leave my children to run off for a
frivolous weekend of glee with no regard for their well-being (both
mentally and physically). I'm offended at the presumption of such.
I would think it is apparant from my collective posts that I do have
my children's best interests at the forefront of my mind and actions.
Michelle - not the mom from Second Hand Lions
******
Yes, it is apparent from your collecitve posts that you put your
kids' interests first. This was why your first post about the planned
stay with grandma surprised me. I commented on it earlier because it
seemed very out of character for you to put your kids in such a
potentially contentious situation where it was likely they'd be
treated disrespectfully. I'm sorry you're offended, but the whole
thing felt wrong to me, and I wondered why you'd left them with her,
when you expected 'rebelling issues.'
Sylvia
Maisha Khalfani
Michelle ---
{{BIG HUGS}} to you and your family. I'm so sorry that your children had to endure a weekend like that! I'm sure that you felt all would be fine, and made sure of that at least 10x's before you left <g>
What do you think prompted your mom to "flip the script" on you? Why would she agree and then change like that? Do you think she was just lying and trying to set your kids up to show that her way was better? I guess "why" she did it may not matter as much as the fact that she did. It's always hurtful when someone that you trust betrays that trust. It must hurt all the more that you trusted someone that you thought you SHOULD be able to trust with the people that you treasure most on the earth.
I hope that in the future you and your mom can reconcile, and I hope that your children are okay.
Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
{{BIG HUGS}} to you and your family. I'm so sorry that your children had to endure a weekend like that! I'm sure that you felt all would be fine, and made sure of that at least 10x's before you left <g>
What do you think prompted your mom to "flip the script" on you? Why would she agree and then change like that? Do you think she was just lying and trying to set your kids up to show that her way was better? I guess "why" she did it may not matter as much as the fact that she did. It's always hurtful when someone that you trust betrays that trust. It must hurt all the more that you trusted someone that you thought you SHOULD be able to trust with the people that you treasure most on the earth.
I hope that in the future you and your mom can reconcile, and I hope that your children are okay.
Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most difficult period in one's life" ~ The Dalai Lama
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rshoulla
>>I try to see it as an opporunity for my dd to realize that noteveryone is as responsive as myself and her dad. I don't think it
hurts for her to see the "other side" here. If she never has a basis
for comparison how is she to ever know how good she has it with us!:)<<
I love this example. Besides that, it's a great lesson in learning to
deal with all sorts of different personalities ... or at least
recognizing them so you can avoid those people when you can. ;)
I always told our oldest he had the right to question anything anyone
said, but he needed remain respectful, choose his battles, and I
recommended he also choose his timing wisely.
Point being, if your mother asks a question and then doesn't wait to
hear the answer... my ds would be inclined to point it out in a polite
and respectful way. We try to remind him that most people, even at
their worst, don't really have bad intentions as much as they are
completely oblivious to the effects of their actions (and words). It
helps him have patience, find ways to address these situations gently,
and consider the cause and effect of his own actions.
.... he's also called me on a few things I'm not too proud of, but
hey, he's learned something, right? HA HA ...
Dawn Bennink
No sage advice for you, Michelle, but empathy and sympathy.
I have had a difficult relationship with my mother all my life. It has had
peaks of tension to be sure - one of them going on right now. I think we
can hope for the best, sometimes fool ourselves into thinking things will
work out, but ultimately have to know when enough it enough. For me, as for
you, when the kids begin to suffer, that's the last straw.
Whatever you decided to do, I hope you do what is right for you and your
family and not just act upon a gut reaction to the violation of trust with
your mother. In a weird way, if you do anything not because it's what you
and your family really want but simply to get away from or exclude her, you
are again giving her the power. It took me a LONG time to figure this out
with both my parents and with my in-laws. Now, caller id and a locked door
are my best friends. :o)
Hugs,
Dawn
I have had a difficult relationship with my mother all my life. It has had
peaks of tension to be sure - one of them going on right now. I think we
can hope for the best, sometimes fool ourselves into thinking things will
work out, but ultimately have to know when enough it enough. For me, as for
you, when the kids begin to suffer, that's the last straw.
Whatever you decided to do, I hope you do what is right for you and your
family and not just act upon a gut reaction to the violation of trust with
your mother. In a weird way, if you do anything not because it's what you
and your family really want but simply to get away from or exclude her, you
are again giving her the power. It took me a LONG time to figure this out
with both my parents and with my in-laws. Now, caller id and a locked door
are my best friends. :o)
Hugs,
Dawn
iamhisservant4ever
It is so sad when you have to let caller ID field phone calls from
your own mother but unfortunately that is also what I have to do. No
matter how old she gets, or I get for that matter, nothing ever
changes. I am still "a radical", and I am still made to feel guilty
if I am not at her beck and call. I tried moving away about 600
miles, eight years ago. As soon as my Dad retired guess where she
insisted they move to? You got it, 10 minutes from where I lived. My
Dad passed away almost two years ago and of course that was all my
fault because he wouldn't have gotten cancer if they hadn't moved
here for me(??). The fact that it was lung cancer caused by the work
he did for 40 something years had nothing to do with it! Then we
moved to a different city and she also moved to be as close as
possible. This past May we moved to the city again, due to the fact
that country life was just not what we all thought it would be, I
will save that rant for another time!! So now she has her mobile
home up for sale because she suddenly has to move to the city as
well. My daughter and I were involved in a near fatal car accident
last year, I found out some very disturbing things about my second
husband and had demanded he move out a week before, and a lot of
other crap had gone on around the same time. But, to hear it from her
she is the one who is so needy, and all my problems and what
happened, again have to do with the fact that everyone's "luck" has
been so bad since we moved to Pennsylvania. When I tell her I do not
believe in luck she gets irate. So once again it is all my fault that
theses terrible things have happened and I need to be constantly
reminded and made to feel guilty over all of it.
Whew!! that was so long....sorry I needed to vent I guess. The last
post just brought so much of this to surface !!
By the way I am Lorrie from Pennsylvania, and I unschool my 15 year
old daughter, and have a 21 year old son that was also unschooled.
I wish everyone a great holiday season....peace,
lorrie
your own mother but unfortunately that is also what I have to do. No
matter how old she gets, or I get for that matter, nothing ever
changes. I am still "a radical", and I am still made to feel guilty
if I am not at her beck and call. I tried moving away about 600
miles, eight years ago. As soon as my Dad retired guess where she
insisted they move to? You got it, 10 minutes from where I lived. My
Dad passed away almost two years ago and of course that was all my
fault because he wouldn't have gotten cancer if they hadn't moved
here for me(??). The fact that it was lung cancer caused by the work
he did for 40 something years had nothing to do with it! Then we
moved to a different city and she also moved to be as close as
possible. This past May we moved to the city again, due to the fact
that country life was just not what we all thought it would be, I
will save that rant for another time!! So now she has her mobile
home up for sale because she suddenly has to move to the city as
well. My daughter and I were involved in a near fatal car accident
last year, I found out some very disturbing things about my second
husband and had demanded he move out a week before, and a lot of
other crap had gone on around the same time. But, to hear it from her
she is the one who is so needy, and all my problems and what
happened, again have to do with the fact that everyone's "luck" has
been so bad since we moved to Pennsylvania. When I tell her I do not
believe in luck she gets irate. So once again it is all my fault that
theses terrible things have happened and I need to be constantly
reminded and made to feel guilty over all of it.
Whew!! that was so long....sorry I needed to vent I guess. The last
post just brought so much of this to surface !!
By the way I am Lorrie from Pennsylvania, and I unschool my 15 year
old daughter, and have a 21 year old son that was also unschooled.
I wish everyone a great holiday season....peace,
lorrie
> No sage advice for you, Michelle, but empathy and sympathy.has had
>
> I have had a difficult relationship with my mother all my life. It
> peaks of tension to be sure - one of them going on right now. Ithink we
> can hope for the best, sometimes fool ourselves into thinkingthings will
> work out, but ultimately have to know when enough it enough. Forme, as for
> you, when the kids begin to suffer, that's the last straw.your
>
> Whatever you decided to do, I hope you do what is right for you and
> family and not just act upon a gut reaction to the violation oftrust with
> your mother. In a weird way, if you do anything not because it'swhat you
> and your family really want but simply to get away from or excludeher, you
> are again giving her the power. It took me a LONG time to figurethis out
> with both my parents and with my in-laws. Now, caller id and alocked door
> are my best friends. :o)
>
> Hugs,
>
> Dawn
>
Ren Allen
~~In a weird way, if you do anything not because it's what you
and your family really want but simply to get away from or exclude
her, you are again giving her the power.~~
Sometimes a separation is the best thing for a family though. You
don't give a toxic person power when you cut them out of your life,
you stop them from having a negative influence in your family.
Honestly, if I had a parent following me that was as toxic as one
poster just wrote about, I'd definitely NOT have any contact
whatsoever, nor would that parent know anything about where we lived.
Scary.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
and your family really want but simply to get away from or exclude
her, you are again giving her the power.~~
Sometimes a separation is the best thing for a family though. You
don't give a toxic person power when you cut them out of your life,
you stop them from having a negative influence in your family.
Honestly, if I had a parent following me that was as toxic as one
poster just wrote about, I'd definitely NOT have any contact
whatsoever, nor would that parent know anything about where we lived.
Scary.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Connie
there are no easy answers. My mother was my nemesis my whole life - called child abuse on me a trillion times (it seems anyway) - did all sorts of things - but she just passed away last Friday and believe it or not - I really miss her.
c.
c.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Bennink
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sad situation
No sage advice for you, Michelle, but empathy and sympathy.
I have had a difficult relationship with my mother all my life. It has had
peaks of tension to be sure - one of them going on right now. I think we
can hope for the best, sometimes fool ourselves into thinking things will
work out, but ultimately have to know when enough it enough. For me, as for
you, when the kids begin to suffer, that's the last straw.
Whatever you decided to do, I hope you do what is right for you and your
family and not just act upon a gut reaction to the violation of trust with
your mother. In a weird way, if you do anything not because it's what you
and your family really want but simply to get away from or exclude her, you
are again giving her the power. It took me a LONG time to figure this out
with both my parents and with my in-laws. Now, caller id and a locked door
are my best friends. :o)
Hugs,
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kristenhendricks55
Michelle,
I'm new here, and not sure how welcome my opinion is, but I thought
I'd toss in my two cents :)
I have a similar situation with my mother, so I can sympathise.
However, you know the saying "beggars can't be choosers"?
I think that while your mother should respect your parenting wishes,
you should also respect her ways of doing things in her home.
You knew from the get go that things were not going to work out, but
yet became upset when it happened... which makes no sense to me.
If you call upon someone to take time from their daily life and
watch your children in their OWN home, I would just assume that you
would have respect for HER rules and HER ways while your children
were at her house.
Example...
If someone were to come to my house with their pet (let's say a dog)
and let it go to the bathroom all over my house, and then think
nothing of it... I would be furious. And them telling me that it's
okay because the dog does it at home... that would mean nothing to
me. I do not care what that dog does at his/her house. This is my
house and things run differently here, just as they do in everyone's
house. Like they say... to each his own.
I think it is selfish to tell someone you need them to watch your
children and then tell them exactly the way they are to do it. I
would simply be greatful that she would watch them to begin with.
My questions for you...
#1 Why even leave them with her knowing what they outcome would
probably be, like you had stated earlier?
#2 If you need things run in the exact way that you want them done,
why not hire a sitter while you were gone? Then you can lay down the
rules, and after all, they are being paid to do what you tell them.
#3 Why tell your child that they could just call you up and you
would handle things if that were not the case. If you knew your
mother would do this, what makes you think that you could pull rank
on her from 3000 miles away?
Not trying to stir any trouble here, just thought that maybe if you
saw it from an outsiders perspective it may help next time :)
Kristen (Mom to Kendall 3yrs, Riley 14mos, Nolan 3mos)
I'm new here, and not sure how welcome my opinion is, but I thought
I'd toss in my two cents :)
I have a similar situation with my mother, so I can sympathise.
However, you know the saying "beggars can't be choosers"?
I think that while your mother should respect your parenting wishes,
you should also respect her ways of doing things in her home.
You knew from the get go that things were not going to work out, but
yet became upset when it happened... which makes no sense to me.
If you call upon someone to take time from their daily life and
watch your children in their OWN home, I would just assume that you
would have respect for HER rules and HER ways while your children
were at her house.
Example...
If someone were to come to my house with their pet (let's say a dog)
and let it go to the bathroom all over my house, and then think
nothing of it... I would be furious. And them telling me that it's
okay because the dog does it at home... that would mean nothing to
me. I do not care what that dog does at his/her house. This is my
house and things run differently here, just as they do in everyone's
house. Like they say... to each his own.
I think it is selfish to tell someone you need them to watch your
children and then tell them exactly the way they are to do it. I
would simply be greatful that she would watch them to begin with.
My questions for you...
#1 Why even leave them with her knowing what they outcome would
probably be, like you had stated earlier?
#2 If you need things run in the exact way that you want them done,
why not hire a sitter while you were gone? Then you can lay down the
rules, and after all, they are being paid to do what you tell them.
#3 Why tell your child that they could just call you up and you
would handle things if that were not the case. If you knew your
mother would do this, what makes you think that you could pull rank
on her from 3000 miles away?
Not trying to stir any trouble here, just thought that maybe if you
saw it from an outsiders perspective it may help next time :)
Kristen (Mom to Kendall 3yrs, Riley 14mos, Nolan 3mos)
Dawn Bennink
I agree that it is often the best thing to cut yourself off from a toxic
family member. I had to do just that with my SIL who was truly dangerous.
Oh, the stories I could tell. We explained to her that we would be asking
for a no-contact order and prosecute for harrassment, false charges and
whatever else we needed to do if she didn't just leave us in peace of her
own accord. Fortunately, she chose to leave us in peace. I'd be surprised
if we ever see her or hear from her again, although we do hear OF her more
often than I'd like. She's doing a fine job messing up her own family.
What I meant about giving the power if you do something that is not of your
family's choosing wasn't this kind of case. What I meant is that I don't
think anybody should sell their house and move halfway across the country
just to end contact with their family, unless it is what everyone in the
family wants. A move and a fresh start can be great, but if you do it just
to get away from someone, there is always the chance that they will follow
you, and then you start a cycle of running. KWIM? I hope I'm making sense.
What I'm inartfuly saying is that ending a relationship with anyone who
threatens to rend the fabric of your family life is completely
understandable. But it is HOW you do it that matters, so that you don't put
yourself in a position where they retain any power over you.
Dawn
family member. I had to do just that with my SIL who was truly dangerous.
Oh, the stories I could tell. We explained to her that we would be asking
for a no-contact order and prosecute for harrassment, false charges and
whatever else we needed to do if she didn't just leave us in peace of her
own accord. Fortunately, she chose to leave us in peace. I'd be surprised
if we ever see her or hear from her again, although we do hear OF her more
often than I'd like. She's doing a fine job messing up her own family.
What I meant about giving the power if you do something that is not of your
family's choosing wasn't this kind of case. What I meant is that I don't
think anybody should sell their house and move halfway across the country
just to end contact with their family, unless it is what everyone in the
family wants. A move and a fresh start can be great, but if you do it just
to get away from someone, there is always the chance that they will follow
you, and then you start a cycle of running. KWIM? I hope I'm making sense.
What I'm inartfuly saying is that ending a relationship with anyone who
threatens to rend the fabric of your family life is completely
understandable. But it is HOW you do it that matters, so that you don't put
yourself in a position where they retain any power over you.
Dawn
> Sometimes a separation is the best thing for a family though. You
> don't give a toxic person power when you cut them out of your life,
> you stop them from having a negative influence in your family.
>
> Honestly, if I had a parent following me that was as toxic as one
> poster just wrote about, I'd definitely NOT have any contact
> whatsoever, nor would that parent know anything about where we lived.
> Scary.
Dawn Bennink
I'm so sorry, Connie. But I do completely understand. Somewhere inside us,
we love even the parents who are horrid and abusive. They are, after all,
our parents.
Dawn
we love even the parents who are horrid and abusive. They are, after all,
our parents.
Dawn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Connie" <conniekangas@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sad situation
> there are no easy answers. My mother was my nemesis my whole life -
> called child abuse on me a trillion times (it seems anyway) - did all
> sorts of things - but she just passed away last Friday and believe it or
> not - I really miss her.
>
> c.
Ren Allen
~~But it is HOW you do it that matters, so that you don't put
yourself in a position where they retain any power over you.~~
That's a really good point...hadn't thought of it that way since I
don't have these issues! If a move is in the best interest of the
family, and something that brings joy then great. But yeah, I can see
where moving away could be a bad choice if it's just to get away from
someone and not what the family really wants.
If contact truly needs to end, then the person ending contact needs to
find the strength and resolve to set boundaries wherever they choose
to be.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
yourself in a position where they retain any power over you.~~
That's a really good point...hadn't thought of it that way since I
don't have these issues! If a move is in the best interest of the
family, and something that brings joy then great. But yeah, I can see
where moving away could be a bad choice if it's just to get away from
someone and not what the family really wants.
If contact truly needs to end, then the person ending contact needs to
find the strength and resolve to set boundaries wherever they choose
to be.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com