democratic schools like Summerhill and Sudbury
Alice Roddy
A man I like and respect but with whom I differ
significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing children to
pursue their interest in school had been failures, resulting in children who
learn nothing. I think he is referring to democratic schools like Summerhill, although
he could possibly have been referring to the 80�s idea that self-esteem would
solve everything. This got me wondering what has happened to Summerhill and its
graduates. A cursory Google search shows that it still exists and recently
(2000) won a major battle with the British commissions on standards over the
fact that all coursework is optional.
A. S. Neill founded Summerhill with the belief that
"the function of a child is to live his own life � not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live, not a life according to the purpose of an
educator who thinks he knows best." This seems very much in line with Holt
and unschooling. Those of you who have read Holt, does he say anything about Neill
and Summerhill?
Looking further, I found the Sudbury Valley Schools, in the US and other
places. Interesting article about them at
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060424-000004.html
quote: �The 38-year-old day facility in Framingham,
Massachusetts, is founded on what comes down to a belief about human
nature�that children have an innate curiosity to learn and a drive to become
effective, independent human beings, no matter how many times they try and
fail. And it's the job of adults to expose them to models and information,
answer questions�then get out of the way without trampling motivation. There
are no classrooms per se, although students can request instruction on any
subject or talk to any staffer any time about an interest. There aren't even
grades. From overnight hiking trips to economics classes to weekly school
meetings at which all matters�including my visit�are discussed and voted on by
students and staff, all activities are age-mixed.
�. . . . So ingrained
is the belief that kids learn only when confined to their seats and explicitly
taught that most adults overlook obvious evidence to the contrary�the young
struggle persistently against even their own clumsiness to master such
formidable tasks as crawling, walking and talking on their own.�
I expect to have more conversations with my friend and,
while I know it would be pointless to butt heads with him, I would like to be a
bit prepared if democratic schools should come up again.
Also, having read a little about these democractic schools,
I�m wondering whether there are any connections between them and unschoolers,
since we seem to have the same or similar philosophies, and might be of some
support or assistance to each other.
Always learning,
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing children to
pursue their interest in school had been failures, resulting in children who
learn nothing. I think he is referring to democratic schools like Summerhill, although
he could possibly have been referring to the 80�s idea that self-esteem would
solve everything. This got me wondering what has happened to Summerhill and its
graduates. A cursory Google search shows that it still exists and recently
(2000) won a major battle with the British commissions on standards over the
fact that all coursework is optional.
A. S. Neill founded Summerhill with the belief that
"the function of a child is to live his own life � not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live, not a life according to the purpose of an
educator who thinks he knows best." This seems very much in line with Holt
and unschooling. Those of you who have read Holt, does he say anything about Neill
and Summerhill?
Looking further, I found the Sudbury Valley Schools, in the US and other
places. Interesting article about them at
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060424-000004.html
quote: �The 38-year-old day facility in Framingham,
Massachusetts, is founded on what comes down to a belief about human
nature�that children have an innate curiosity to learn and a drive to become
effective, independent human beings, no matter how many times they try and
fail. And it's the job of adults to expose them to models and information,
answer questions�then get out of the way without trampling motivation. There
are no classrooms per se, although students can request instruction on any
subject or talk to any staffer any time about an interest. There aren't even
grades. From overnight hiking trips to economics classes to weekly school
meetings at which all matters�including my visit�are discussed and voted on by
students and staff, all activities are age-mixed.
�. . . . So ingrained
is the belief that kids learn only when confined to their seats and explicitly
taught that most adults overlook obvious evidence to the contrary�the young
struggle persistently against even their own clumsiness to master such
formidable tasks as crawling, walking and talking on their own.�
I expect to have more conversations with my friend and,
while I know it would be pointless to butt heads with him, I would like to be a
bit prepared if democratic schools should come up again.
Also, having read a little about these democractic schools,
I�m wondering whether there are any connections between them and unschoolers,
since we seem to have the same or similar philosophies, and might be of some
support or assistance to each other.
Always learning,
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~A man I like and respect but with whom I differ
significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing
children to
pursue their interest in school had been failures~~
I doubt he was referring to any democratic school. He's probably
thinking of the very real failures in public school to half-heartedly
make changes. The open classroom failed miserably, not because it was
a bad idea, but because it was put into place by people with the same
views they had before.
Their paradigm hadn't shifted, they still thought kids needed to be
"taught". The system hadn't truly changed, they were just implementing
a trendy idea they really didn't GET. It was doomed before it got started.
You can't take a bunch of people that believe kids aren't trustworthy,
and expect them to implement ideas that say children ARE trustworthy
and can learn without coercion.
Teachers that think people need teaching shouldn't try to use systems
that say learners hold the power, until their perspective changes anyway.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing
children to
pursue their interest in school had been failures~~
I doubt he was referring to any democratic school. He's probably
thinking of the very real failures in public school to half-heartedly
make changes. The open classroom failed miserably, not because it was
a bad idea, but because it was put into place by people with the same
views they had before.
Their paradigm hadn't shifted, they still thought kids needed to be
"taught". The system hadn't truly changed, they were just implementing
a trendy idea they really didn't GET. It was doomed before it got started.
You can't take a bunch of people that believe kids aren't trustworthy,
and expect them to implement ideas that say children ARE trustworthy
and can learn without coercion.
Teachers that think people need teaching shouldn't try to use systems
that say learners hold the power, until their perspective changes anyway.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Alice Roddy
Ren, Thanks so much. I think you're right and you've given me another idea on how to keep a dialogue going with this guy. He's a very involved caring father but he really has no idea what is 2.5 yr old son is developmentally ready for. I hoping to maintain his respect and trust while offering him a different perspective.
I had written:
A man I like and respect but with whom I differ significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing children to pursue their interest in school had been failures.
Ren responded:
I doubt he was referring to any democratic school. He's probably thinking of the very real failures in public school to half-heartedly make changes. The open classroom failed miserably, not because it was
a bad idea, but because it was put into place by people with the same views they had before.
Their paradigm hadn't shifted, they still thought kids needed to be "taught". The system hadn't truly changed, they were just implementing a trendy idea they really didn't GET. It was doomed before it got started. You can't take a bunch of people that believe kids aren't trustworthy, and expect them to implement ideas that say children ARE trustworthy and can learn without coercion.
Teachers that think people need teaching shouldn't try to use systems that say learners hold the power, until their perspective changes anyway.
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had written:
A man I like and respect but with whom I differ significantly on parenting commented that experiments in allowing children to pursue their interest in school had been failures.
Ren responded:
I doubt he was referring to any democratic school. He's probably thinking of the very real failures in public school to half-heartedly make changes. The open classroom failed miserably, not because it was
a bad idea, but because it was put into place by people with the same views they had before.
Their paradigm hadn't shifted, they still thought kids needed to be "taught". The system hadn't truly changed, they were just implementing a trendy idea they really didn't GET. It was doomed before it got started. You can't take a bunch of people that believe kids aren't trustworthy, and expect them to implement ideas that say children ARE trustworthy and can learn without coercion.
Teachers that think people need teaching shouldn't try to use systems that say learners hold the power, until their perspective changes anyway.
Gramma Alice
Breastfeeding is the biological norm for infants. It is a relationship that provides food, connection, protection from illness to the baby and stress reducing hormones to the mother.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ellen
I second what Ren said that he is likely referring to the attempt at
open class rooms that did not work out well in public schools. The
democratic schools, many in operation for decades, have done well as
have their graduates. I just finished reading Kingdom of Childhood
which was a collection of now-adults recollections of their time at
the Sudbury school in its early years.
The philosophy behind democratic schools and unschooling is similar
and neither work out when only followed part way. You cannot adopt
part of the unschooling methods and expect it to work in a traditional
or authoritarian environment. That's why so many of the posts on lists
like this is about how unschooling is impacting our entire lifestyle!
My DD is 2 and I am intending to unschool her. But at some point in
the years ahead, I really hope I can start my own Sudbury school or
other democratic school. I think it is such a good environment for
children that I would like it to be available to kids whose parents
can't or don't want to home school.
open class rooms that did not work out well in public schools. The
democratic schools, many in operation for decades, have done well as
have their graduates. I just finished reading Kingdom of Childhood
which was a collection of now-adults recollections of their time at
the Sudbury school in its early years.
The philosophy behind democratic schools and unschooling is similar
and neither work out when only followed part way. You cannot adopt
part of the unschooling methods and expect it to work in a traditional
or authoritarian environment. That's why so many of the posts on lists
like this is about how unschooling is impacting our entire lifestyle!
My DD is 2 and I am intending to unschool her. But at some point in
the years ahead, I really hope I can start my own Sudbury school or
other democratic school. I think it is such a good environment for
children that I would like it to be available to kids whose parents
can't or don't want to home school.
Carrie Kimball
I can also attest to the success of summerhill model schools. I lived in the Albany Free School community for a decade, and many of the kids who were there for the duration are now adults with their own lives- successfull and happy. Most transitioned into the local public high school (they just started a Free school high school this year) with little issue academically, and adjusted well to authoritarianism as well LOL! and the ones I hear about have achieved their goals in life thus far, including colleges for many. It isn't perfect- it won't ever be, and many parents along the way pulled their kids before the program was completed when they got scared. But that doesn't mean the model doesn't work- just that it isn't right for every family.
carrie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carrie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chris and Kelli Bailey
ellen,
i think this would be an amazing thing to do for
children!
i have a friend who loves the way our family interacts
and thinks my children are so "smart" and "polite".
she has been practically begging me to homeschool her
dd12 for two years now. but she does not share the
same life values; she and her husband are free
thinkers and very loving, but for some reason her
parenting is authoritarian and her dd has been in
catholic school all her life. this would probably
translate into a nightmare for me!
but if i could find more like-minded people in our
area i would definitely welcome other children into
our world.
:) kelli
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i think this would be an amazing thing to do for
children!
i have a friend who loves the way our family interacts
and thinks my children are so "smart" and "polite".
she has been practically begging me to homeschool her
dd12 for two years now. but she does not share the
same life values; she and her husband are free
thinkers and very loving, but for some reason her
parenting is authoritarian and her dd has been in
catholic school all her life. this would probably
translate into a nightmare for me!
but if i could find more like-minded people in our
area i would definitely welcome other children into
our world.
:) kelli
> My DD is 2 and I am intending to unschool her. But__________________________________________________
> at some point in
> the years ahead, I really hope I can start my own
> Sudbury school or
> other democratic school. I think it is such a good
> environment for
> children that I would like it to be available to
> kids whose parents
> can't or don't want to home school.
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Ellen
I wish I lived near such a school but then I would not have the
opportunity to open my own I suppose. I'm in Houston now, but we are
hoping my husband gets a job at Dell in Austin soon. I have a friend
who just started working there so hopefully an insider recommending
him will help. Anyway, that would mean we'd be doing this in Austin,
which would probably be better since Houston tends to be more
conservative.
Another reason not to do it right away is I hope we have another baby
some time and I know I could not do both. I know there are super women
out there who could, but I know I'm not one of them!
opportunity to open my own I suppose. I'm in Houston now, but we are
hoping my husband gets a job at Dell in Austin soon. I have a friend
who just started working there so hopefully an insider recommending
him will help. Anyway, that would mean we'd be doing this in Austin,
which would probably be better since Houston tends to be more
conservative.
Another reason not to do it right away is I hope we have another baby
some time and I know I could not do both. I know there are super women
out there who could, but I know I'm not one of them!