cvanderley

This is my first time posting on this board. I've been reading and
learning for the past few months - thank you! I've searched the
archives and can't find anything on this topic, so forgive me if it's
there and I've missed it.

My younger dd will be 3 in March. She has a wonderful command of
language: grammatically correct sentences and a very large vocabulary.
The problem lies in deciphering what she is saying. I catch about
50% of what she says the first time, the rest of the time I have to
ask her to repeat herself or get my older dd to translate. Those
outside of our immediate family can make out 10% - 20% of what she is
saying. I've been telling myself that it will come when she's ready,
but there hasn't been any significant improvement in the past few
months. And to top it off, she's starting to get frustrated and say
that she wants 'to be big like her sister so she can talk'. We're
trying to work around that, and either have her point or show us what
she's talking about, or have her repeat words back to us and show her
how to form her words...I want this to be enough. I don't want to
find out in a couple of years that she *did* need intervention and I
missed it. I also wonder if this is 'normal' for this age (my only
reference is my older dd and the handful of other children my younder
dd's age, and they were/are all much easier to understand at this point).

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Christine

Sylvia Toyama

My younger dd will be 3 in March. She has a wonderful command of
language: grammatically correct sentences and a very large vocabulary.
The problem lies in deciphering what she is saying. I catch about
50% of what she says the first time, the rest of the time I have to
ask her to repeat herself or get my older dd to translate. Those
outside of our immediate family can make out 10% - 20% of what she is
saying.

*****
She sounds perfectly normal to me. I mean, she's not yet three. Being understandable comes later for a lot of kids. Is it maybe that your daughter was just an earlier talker, or more adept at this age, so it feels like your younger daughter may be behind?

My oldest spoke early, and was very verbal well by the time he was two. When the second came along and wasn't talking much by two, I started to worry that maybe he was behind. When I looked around at other kids his age, and did a bit of reading, what I found was that older ds had been precocious verbally. I realized, too, that younger dd already had other skills -- physical ones -- that older dd hadn't had at 2. It's just that older dd was verbally precocious, where the younger two turned out to be physically precocious.

Since your daughter is frustrated at not being able to make herself understood, come up with way to help her. Is comfortable with having her older sister translate? Andy was Dan's translator for a long time -- still is some days, since Dan still has trouble with some words in particular. And some words just come late, too. My oldest was 6 before he managed to say helicopter -- for years it was heppydocker (which I thought was very cute). We all just continued to say helicopter the right way. Then one day, he said helicopter, and he was so excited! He yelled "I said it -- I said helicopter!" I realized then that he'd been very trying to get it right. He knew it wasn't coming out right but just hadn't been able to make it happen until that moment. Even today, I can't see a helicopter without thinking heppidocker and remembering how excited he was the day he finally got it right!

Also, sometimes we get so wrapped up in looking for one specific thing that we don't see the other things going on. Maybe the reason you're not hearing progress in speech is because she's tackling other development things. Two is a busy age, lots of growing and physical skills to master -- dressing herself, pottying, teething, ever-changing sleep needs. The verbal skills will come.

Sylvia


Mom to
Will (almost 22!) Andy (10-1/2) and Dan (almost 6)

www.ourhapahome.blogspot.com

To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." ~ e.e. cummings












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laura g

I can say my son was the same way... although he wasnt really frustrated..
he was very difficult to understand at that age. he still has difficulty
with his speech but his language is great. he is 5. he gets frustrated
sometimes and we recently tried speech therapy cause i thought it was
affecting his making friends but after a few months of therapy he has made
it clear he was done so we are taking a break. if he wants to go back later
he can. if your daughter wants to go I do think it can be helpful.

>From: "cvanderley" <cev29@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] In need of advice - toddler speech
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>
>This is my first time posting on this board. I've been reading and
>learning for the past few months - thank you! I've searched the
>archives and can't find anything on this topic, so forgive me if it's
>there and I've missed it.
>
>My younger dd will be 3 in March. She has a wonderful command of
>language: grammatically correct sentences and a very large vocabulary.
> The problem lies in deciphering what she is saying. I catch about
>50% of what she says the first time, the rest of the time I have to
>ask her to repeat herself or get my older dd to translate. Those
>outside of our immediate family can make out 10% - 20% of what she is
>saying. I've been telling myself that it will come when she's ready,
>but there hasn't been any significant improvement in the past few
>months. And to top it off, she's starting to get frustrated and say
>that she wants 'to be big like her sister so she can talk'. We're
>trying to work around that, and either have her point or show us what
>she's talking about, or have her repeat words back to us and show her
>how to form her words...I want this to be enough. I don't want to
>find out in a couple of years that she *did* need intervention and I
>missed it. I also wonder if this is 'normal' for this age (my only
>reference is my older dd and the handful of other children my younder
>dd's age, and they were/are all much easier to understand at this point).
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice!
>
>Christine
>
>
>

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Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

My sister's ds was a lot like that . He grunted more thatn anything. Today at 5 he speaks clearly and perfect. No one never did any intervention.

Alex.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laurie

My DD was the same way. She'll be 4 in February and she just had some
kind of language explosion - somehow within the last month I now
understand her a lot better. And people outside the family also are
understanding much more easily too. I find I don't have to repeat
everything for strangers anymore. My older DS has always enunciated
very well and had a great control of it all so this is new to me. But
I'm guessing my DS was an over-achiever. LOLOL He can sure talk your
ear off. ;)

Laurie

--- In [email protected], "cvanderley" <cev29@...> wrote:
> My younger dd will be 3 in March. She has a wonderful command of
> language: grammatically correct sentences and a very large vocabulary.
> The problem lies in deciphering what she is saying.
> Christine
>

alisonslp

Hi Christine,

I'm a pediatric speech therapist. The thing that concerns me about
your post is that your dd is getting frustrated. That's a clear sign
that something is not working for her and that she's "asking" for help
to to make it better.

By age 3, a child should be able to express most of her needs to a
parent with little trouble. However, your dd is still a few months
away from that and it is amazing the difference a few months makes.
You can wait a little bit to see what happens. Things that might help
in the mean time is to spend extra time really listening to her speech
to find some patterns that might help you with the unfamiliar words.
For example, you might realize that she uses a w or a b for all 'f'
sounds. Or you might notice that she is omitting the middle sounds in
her words (wa-er for water) or an entire syllable: bi-cle for bicycle.
Once you know what's happening, your brain will be better able to
interpret and you can also start emphasizing the correct patterns in
your speech (not asking her to correct, just giving her the right model).

If she is still having alot of trouble in a few months, then I would
say it's worth getting an evaluation so that you know her how to help
her better (ex., emphasizing age level sounds, working on segmenting
words so she understands to say all her syllables). But if she is
really getting upset because people don't understand her, it may be
worth getting the evaluation now.

If you have more questions, feel free to email me...

BTW, if she wasn't frustrated, I would say leave it alone for now.
Most speech problems will eventually resolve on their own. Most
parents aren't willing to wait because they want the child cured by
kindergarten.

Alison

Ren Allen

~~
By age 3, a child should be able to express most of her needs to a
parent with little trouble. ~~

I know of several children that didn't fall into that timeline, my
youngest ds included. Some parents of "late" talkers find sign
language helpful, though by 3 years of age they are sometimes trying
to express some pretty big ideas that a few simple signs might not be
as helpful for.
It's true that lots of kids have big growth and development spurts
right around the 3-3.5 age. Give it time.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

alisonslp

Ren,
There will always be children who develop language later than others,
just like there are children who develop language earlier than
typical. The reality is that *most* 2-2.5 yr olds are able to express
their needs *to their parents* with little trouble. There should be
concern when a child of 3yrs is not able to get her needs met because
her parents can't understand her words. Yes, children do develop at
their own pace. BUT, if the child is getting really frustrated and the
parents are getting worried, meeting with a speech therapist can be
very helpful.

Just as a side note, there is a big difference between "late talkers"
(or late bloomers) and a child who is attempting to talk but can't say
the words well enough for others to understand. It creates great
frustration because the child has alot going on in her head and she is
really trying to express it and no one understands her. Late talkers
are kids who have great receptive language (understand what you say,
pick up on things quickly), but just are talking much.

And yes, sign language is a great way to give your child "words" that
he/she may not be able to verbalize. I use sign with most of the kids
I see if they are having trouble. But in this case, the child appears
to be talking in phrases (high level of language), and signs may not
work as well. Though, it would help to at least have her basic needs
expressed.

Alison

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~
> By age 3, a child should be able to express most of her needs to a
> parent with little trouble. ~~
>
> I know of several children that didn't fall into that timeline, my
> youngest ds included. Some parents of "late" talkers find sign
> language helpful, though by 3 years of age they are sometimes trying
> to express some pretty big ideas that a few simple signs might not be
> as helpful for.
> It's true that lots of kids have big growth and development spurts
> right around the 3-3.5 age. Give it time.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>

cvanderley

Thank you everyone for your responses! I know this will resolve one
way or the other...but I still have this nagging voice inside. Her
vocab. and sentence structure are well above where they should be,
which adds to the trouble. For example, she got upset trying to put
her coat on this morning, so I told her to slow down, take a deep
breath, be patient. To which she replied "Frustrated and patient.
Those two words are the opposite." Unfortunately, it took FOREVER to
figure this out, as there was no immediate reference to the word
frustrated, and all I heard was "ustated and tatient. Doze two words
are duh hoppohit" . She talks quite fast, and the more excited she
gets, the harder it is to understand.

What to do, what to do...this is one of these moments that will be
merely a blip in 20 years. Sure is frustrating in the middle of it,
though!

Thanks again!
Christine

laura g

I have never worried about my sons speech except when he seemed frustrated.
He was a late talker and used up to 70 signs and was making signs up and
making phrases with them before he really used many words. he was over two
at that time and then kind of took off with his speech but was difficult to
understand. I think using signs reduced ALOT of frustration for him. Now
that he is 5 and still difficult to understand I am still not worried but i
tried speech therapy with him cause i didnt want him to be frustrated. he
was willing to try but now has descided he doesnt want to. I just want him
to know that is an option if he is frustrated. I feel like even with a 3
year old you should give her the option. therapy can help even if it isnt
always necessary.


>From: "alisonslp" <alisonslp@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: In need of advice - toddler speech
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>
>Ren,
>There will always be children who develop language later than others,
>just like there are children who develop language earlier than
>typical. The reality is that *most* 2-2.5 yr olds are able to express
>their needs *to their parents* with little trouble. There should be
>concern when a child of 3yrs is not able to get her needs met because
>her parents can't understand her words. Yes, children do develop at
>their own pace. BUT, if the child is getting really frustrated and the
>parents are getting worried, meeting with a speech therapist can be
>very helpful.
>
>Just as a side note, there is a big difference between "late talkers"
>(or late bloomers) and a child who is attempting to talk but can't say
>the words well enough for others to understand. It creates great
>frustration because the child has alot going on in her head and she is
>really trying to express it and no one understands her. Late talkers
>are kids who have great receptive language (understand what you say,
>pick up on things quickly), but just are talking much.
>
>And yes, sign language is a great way to give your child "words" that
>he/she may not be able to verbalize. I use sign with most of the kids
>I see if they are having trouble. But in this case, the child appears
>to be talking in phrases (high level of language), and signs may not
>work as well. Though, it would help to at least have her basic needs
>expressed.
>
>Alison
>
>--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
><starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> >
> > ~~
> > By age 3, a child should be able to express most of her needs to a
> > parent with little trouble. ~~
> >
> > I know of several children that didn't fall into that timeline, my
> > youngest ds included. Some parents of "late" talkers find sign
> > language helpful, though by 3 years of age they are sometimes trying
> > to express some pretty big ideas that a few simple signs might not be
> > as helpful for.
> > It's true that lots of kids have big growth and development spurts
> > right around the 3-3.5 age. Give it time.
> >
> > Ren
> > learninginfreedom.com
> >
>
>

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Heather Cuoio

My son is three and 1/2 and about 3-4 months ago I started to get REALLY worried about his speech as he wasn't talking as much as I (or his grandmother, who spurred my worries really) thought he 'ought to be'.... So I took him for a speech evaluation with a speech therapist and they recommended therapy (big surprise, they don't get paid if they don't recommend such, but I digress, and the evaluation cost $150). Well.... They didn't have any openings for S.T. untill January (we did the evaluation back in Sept) and, low and behold, for the last few months, gradually, my son's speech has improved to such a degree that I am wondering if it's a waste of time/money to take him to the S.T. at all... I plan to take him at least a few times, since my husband says it might help his with his problems in prounouncing words correctly where he still has trouble... But my point is, due to my personal experience in this matter, I know how your anxiety can get the best of you, but I have
begun to think that this, like most learning, is something that kids 'get' in their own time and where 'problems' come up is when we have 'expectations' based on the 'cookie cutter child developement books' and where they 'should' be. I think your daughter sounds pretty advanced really, if she's able to articulate the idea that 'she can't wait till she's older and can talk like her sister', that's a pretty broad idea that she can't have gotten across without having pretty good working knowledge and usage of language. So... My advice is to stop worrying yourself and you'll be surprised in six months how well she speaks, I bet. ;)
Smiles,
Heather


---------------------------------
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alisonslp

>>>...So I took him for a speech evaluation with a speech therapist
and they recommended therapy (big surprise, they don't get paid if
they don't recommend such, but I digress, and the evaluation cost
>$150)...<<

As a speech therapist, I take offense to this comment. We do not want
to be treating children who don't need our help. IT's a waste of
everyone's time and money. I evaluate and screen many children for
whom I do not recommend services. I may recommend monitoring or
re-evaluation in 6-12 months to be sure they are developing, if the
family would like to keep an eye on it. We have to document clear
delays or impairments in order for the insurance companies to pay for
treatment. Most companies require standardized norms showing a delay
and many require additional confirmation that it is not simply a
developmental delay (late talker) but a true impairment, as they will
not pay for simple delays.

Also, most parents who are seeking an evaluation are truly concerned
(not just mildly) and want some help. We therefore assume the family
wants services if the results show the child is having significant
difficulties. I personally give the families a variety of options
(monitoring, re-evaluation, treatment sessions, consultations so the
parent can learn the tools to help the child), but 95% choose the
treatment sessions. Will the majority of children catch up on their
own? Yes - about 85% for language problems and 60% for speech
problems. But we don't know which children these are and most parents
are not willing to take the chance of waiting 2+ years to find out.
That's a long time when you are talking about serious speech and
language disorders - the ones that require years (5+ yrs) to resolve
with treatment and rarely resolve without treatment.

Alison (who has said enough on this subject on the public list. If
anyone wants to discuss it further, feel free to email me privately...)

Heather

Alison,

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend... That was actually a comment I'd gotten
from another Yahoogroup leader when I mentioned that I was concerned
about my son's speech delay and I just threw it back out there. I know
there is good to be had in speech therapy and plan to take my son and
see if it helps him improve... I realize after you bringing it to my
attention how flippant that remark was and didn't give enough thought
into what I was saying prior to 'shooting from the hip'... Just was
trying to convey how easy it is, as a parent, to beat yourself silly
with the worry and trying to calm the fears of another mother.

Reformed Hip Shooter,
Heather

Misty

I've agreed with all the responses you've received on this but a couple
of things I didn't see mentioned that I'd thought I'd through out
there. First of all does you dd get sick or have allergies a lot? My
DD 3 as of 11/20 has really awesome speech, and always has, but this
last week she's been very stuffy and congested I noticed just today
that I've had a really difficult time understanding her and have been
having to ask her to repeat things a lot. Her "denasal" or "stuffy
head" speech sounds a lot like some of the other kids I hear her age.
Along the same line does she get lots of ear infections? Make sure
you've had her ears and hearing checked. Sometimes speech can be
affected at this age just by having lots of ear wax or ear infections
without there being any real hearing loss. My nephew had this happen,
his speech is fine now, at 6, but around that age he had some speech
problems due to ear infections until my sister had tubes put in. (Her
husband had had to have tubes too, it was genetic.)

Misty
former deaf educator
now unschooling mom to Rachel-3

Ren Allen

~~Her
vocab. and sentence structure are well above where they should be,~~

Her vocabulary and sentence structure are exactly where they should
be....for her. There is no "where they should be" if you quit
comparing children to each other. And how the heck do you know where
her vocab. and sentence "structure" are if you have trouble
understanding her?

She is where she is. Be comfortable with that. Try not to separate
"vocab/sentence structure" and talking. It's just communication and
she's doing it in her own way and time...exactly as she should.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

alisonslp

Misty hit on two very important points that I had forgotten and she is
right - alleries/colds and ear infections can cause transient hearing
issues, which may affect speech and language development. Thankfully
most pediatricians are good about considering this and will screen for
hearing problems if they are concerned (or refer to an ENT).. But if
there have been problems with colds/allergies and ear infections, it's
worth talking to the dr.

alison

Tonya Matthews

Just as a little aside:

I've been a preschool teacher, worked in daycare, provided childcare
and have three of my own (one who sounds kind of like yours!!*LOL* And
in my opinion, she just has this crazy accent!)

This is one thing I've found VERY helpful in understanding any child
who is just developing language : Say what they said, exactly how they
said it, outloud.

Lots of times if you SAY it too, you can then interpret what it was
they were trying to convey.

Just a little tidbit that may (or may not!) help in the time between
now and completely coherant speech.

Best,
Tonya
Proud Mama to
Christian 11.5
Rory 7.5
Alannah 3.5

all I heard was "ustated and tatient. Doze two words
> are duh hoppohit" . She talks quite fast, and the more excited she
> gets, the harder it is to understand.
>
> What to do, what to do...this is one of these moments that will be
> merely a blip in 20 years. Sure is frustrating in the middle of it,
> though!
>
> Thanks again!
> Christine
>

cvanderley

alleries/colds and ear infections can cause transient hearing
> issues, which may affect speech and language development.

Thanks! I've just found this out in the past week myself. We get her
ears checked on Tuesday and allergy testing on Wednesday. I'm
cringing about the food allergy elimination diet...it's no stranger
around here, but right at Christmas! No fun! ;-)

Thanks again!
Christine