starting to get it - was: "slave" labor
[email protected]
I mostly lurk on this list but I find the discussions SO VERY interesting.
DS is 17 months (stepson is in PS) so I'm learning the lifestyle right now. I
have a clarification question.
I've known stepson for almost 5 years now. Because he's getting older I've
been stuck about how to get some help with chores around the house. I can't do
it all myself and DH is a neat freak. He tries to understand that my
full-time job is being mama/stepmama to our DS and his DS (who is with us half time)
but he has trouble with the house being so messy (that doesn't mean he won't
pick up himself if it bothers him that much - he does do that). We've done
family meetings which has helped a lot. Stepson really enjoys being an equal
participant in the meetings. That has been one way for me to get some help. Let
everyone know what my needs are and ask what everyone is willing to do to
assist me in getting those needs me. No coercion needed. Everyone has been very
willing to participate and help out - in theory.
Before DH and I started considering Unschooling we had a rule that when
stepson finished playing with something he would need to pick it up before he moved
on to something else. We helped if he needed it and it was never a battle.
Now we don't have "rules" like that. But I've been wondering how other
families make the chore thing work. I'm sure it's not complicated for those of you
doing it the respectful way and feeling like you *know* that way and are
comfortable with it. I've been struggling with this - how to I get things done
without any help. It's just not possible. So let me see if I have this right.
It's not a problem to ask for help. I just can't expect everyone to jump up
immediately and do it NOW because I wouldn't want to be treated that way. As
long as they have an "I'm busy right now" out (or something like that), then
it's fine to ask. Is that the way you all do it? As I said, we've done the
family meeting and it works pretty well, but I can't expect a Kindergartner to
remember everything he said he wanted to help with by mid-week. He just doesn't
remember everything he was so enthusiastic to help with.
TIA
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DS is 17 months (stepson is in PS) so I'm learning the lifestyle right now. I
have a clarification question.
I've known stepson for almost 5 years now. Because he's getting older I've
been stuck about how to get some help with chores around the house. I can't do
it all myself and DH is a neat freak. He tries to understand that my
full-time job is being mama/stepmama to our DS and his DS (who is with us half time)
but he has trouble with the house being so messy (that doesn't mean he won't
pick up himself if it bothers him that much - he does do that). We've done
family meetings which has helped a lot. Stepson really enjoys being an equal
participant in the meetings. That has been one way for me to get some help. Let
everyone know what my needs are and ask what everyone is willing to do to
assist me in getting those needs me. No coercion needed. Everyone has been very
willing to participate and help out - in theory.
Before DH and I started considering Unschooling we had a rule that when
stepson finished playing with something he would need to pick it up before he moved
on to something else. We helped if he needed it and it was never a battle.
Now we don't have "rules" like that. But I've been wondering how other
families make the chore thing work. I'm sure it's not complicated for those of you
doing it the respectful way and feeling like you *know* that way and are
comfortable with it. I've been struggling with this - how to I get things done
without any help. It's just not possible. So let me see if I have this right.
It's not a problem to ask for help. I just can't expect everyone to jump up
immediately and do it NOW because I wouldn't want to be treated that way. As
long as they have an "I'm busy right now" out (or something like that), then
it's fine to ask. Is that the way you all do it? As I said, we've done the
family meeting and it works pretty well, but I can't expect a Kindergartner to
remember everything he said he wanted to help with by mid-week. He just doesn't
remember everything he was so enthusiastic to help with.
TIA
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/2004 4:34:42 PM Central Standard Time,
Bethryco@... writes:
I can't do
it all myself and DH is a neat freak
~~~
Neat freaks shouldn't force their "religion" on other people. If he want
the house spotless, he can come home from work and clean it up himself.
I know plenty of women will say, "aw he makes the living...the least I can
do is clean the house!" Yeah, you can clean it....to your standards and as
you can get things done that you see need doing. He can do the same. If those
two perspectives are different, so be it.
It's not your responsibility to clean the house to HIS standards, it's his.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bethryco@... writes:
I can't do
it all myself and DH is a neat freak
~~~
Neat freaks shouldn't force their "religion" on other people. If he want
the house spotless, he can come home from work and clean it up himself.
I know plenty of women will say, "aw he makes the living...the least I can
do is clean the house!" Yeah, you can clean it....to your standards and as
you can get things done that you see need doing. He can do the same. If those
two perspectives are different, so be it.
It's not your responsibility to clean the house to HIS standards, it's his.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:33 PM, Bethryco@... wrote:
;)
Now, for the longer answer -- we don't use the word "chore" and really
not even the word "work" when talking about cleaning our home. Chore
usually has a drudging "oh man this sucks" connotation to it so, for
us, I feel that it's just better not even to use the word. I know from
my own upbringing that "chores" were a very bad thing and were used as
punishments, and conversely, punishable for not completing. Blah!
Unfortunately, I don't have a magic spell that you cast a la Hermione
Granger. Different families are going to have their own take on how
things could be done at their home so the best I can do is steer you
over to Sandra Dodd's page called "Living Better without Requiring
Chores". :)
http://sandradodd.com/chores
-Tracy-
> [I've been wondering how other families make the chore thing work. ]Well, the truth is ... we don't. LOL How's that for the quick answer?
;)
Now, for the longer answer -- we don't use the word "chore" and really
not even the word "work" when talking about cleaning our home. Chore
usually has a drudging "oh man this sucks" connotation to it so, for
us, I feel that it's just better not even to use the word. I know from
my own upbringing that "chores" were a very bad thing and were used as
punishments, and conversely, punishable for not completing. Blah!
Unfortunately, I don't have a magic spell that you cast a la Hermione
Granger. Different families are going to have their own take on how
things could be done at their home so the best I can do is steer you
over to Sandra Dodd's page called "Living Better without Requiring
Chores". :)
http://sandradodd.com/chores
-Tracy-
Robyn Coburn
<<<It's not your responsibility to clean the house to HIS standards, it's
his.>>>
I agree with this in principle, and it also applies to the idea that an
adult's standards are likely to different from a kid's.
However I wanted to share something that happened over here, a while ago
now, but it did change my perspective a bit.
Our house is pretty messy, but at one time was much more so than usual for a
while. Jayn was very little at the time, and not being the big creator that
she is now. I was just letting things go some, feeling a little overwhelmed
and resentful - alone in the task. I hadn't learnt to ask for help very well
yet. Dh was getting snappier and grumpier. And there were some arguments,
where I was baffled at the intensity of his emotions. I mean he is the
person who would step over the doll five times, and then explode about mess
and make it my responsibility, rather than just pick up the doll the first
time.
It finally came out, with many tears on both our parts, that he was afraid I
didn't love him anymore and was planning to leave him, because I wasn't
taking care of "his home". He truly saw (sees) the housework I do as a gift
of love to him. It had never occurred to me to see it that way, just as I
don't think it occurred to him to have to express that idea, and his
gratitude, to me. He just tried to "force" my love back by demanding I clean
up. Since from my perspective my love hadn't gone away I just got hurt and
angry.
Things have been way better since. He is more relaxed, or at least acceptant
of the times when the house gets out of hand. I try harder to stay on top of
things and am much more successful at asking for help, including regular
purges of accumulated clutter - my stuff only, sometimes his. Jayn is a
hoarder at the moment. He is also more grateful, and I do all I can to
express love and reassurance to him in other ways.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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his.>>>
I agree with this in principle, and it also applies to the idea that an
adult's standards are likely to different from a kid's.
However I wanted to share something that happened over here, a while ago
now, but it did change my perspective a bit.
Our house is pretty messy, but at one time was much more so than usual for a
while. Jayn was very little at the time, and not being the big creator that
she is now. I was just letting things go some, feeling a little overwhelmed
and resentful - alone in the task. I hadn't learnt to ask for help very well
yet. Dh was getting snappier and grumpier. And there were some arguments,
where I was baffled at the intensity of his emotions. I mean he is the
person who would step over the doll five times, and then explode about mess
and make it my responsibility, rather than just pick up the doll the first
time.
It finally came out, with many tears on both our parts, that he was afraid I
didn't love him anymore and was planning to leave him, because I wasn't
taking care of "his home". He truly saw (sees) the housework I do as a gift
of love to him. It had never occurred to me to see it that way, just as I
don't think it occurred to him to have to express that idea, and his
gratitude, to me. He just tried to "force" my love back by demanding I clean
up. Since from my perspective my love hadn't gone away I just got hurt and
angry.
Things have been way better since. He is more relaxed, or at least acceptant
of the times when the house gets out of hand. I try harder to stay on top of
things and am much more successful at asking for help, including regular
purges of accumulated clutter - my stuff only, sometimes his. Jayn is a
hoarder at the moment. He is also more grateful, and I do all I can to
express love and reassurance to him in other ways.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004
Fetteroll
on 7/12/04 5:33 PM, Bethryco@... at Bethryco@... wrote:
do whatever the task is.
Think of the tasks as yours and you're asking for help. If he's busy, then
the task is still your responsibility.
You can also try "Let's get this cleaned up," projecting an attitude of
that's just what we do. You can give him specific things to do. You could
say "Would you help me put these pieces back in the game?" Or after you've
picked something up you can say "Could you put that on the shelf for me
please?"
Treat him as though he's already your partner and doing the best he can and
he'll do the best he can. :-) Treat him as conscripted labor and it's
possible he'll figure out how to do the barest minumum possible to fulfill
his obligation.
Joyce
> I just can't expect everyone to jump upNo, he isn't supposed to keep a running list of promises. If he's busy, just
> immediately and do it NOW because I wouldn't want to be treated that way. As
> long as they have an "I'm busy right now" out (or something like that), then
> it's fine to ask. Is that the way you all do it? As I said, we've done the
> family meeting and it works pretty well, but I can't expect a Kindergartner to
> remember everything he said he wanted to help with by mid-week.
do whatever the task is.
Think of the tasks as yours and you're asking for help. If he's busy, then
the task is still your responsibility.
You can also try "Let's get this cleaned up," projecting an attitude of
that's just what we do. You can give him specific things to do. You could
say "Would you help me put these pieces back in the game?" Or after you've
picked something up you can say "Could you put that on the shelf for me
please?"
Treat him as though he's already your partner and doing the best he can and
he'll do the best he can. :-) Treat him as conscripted labor and it's
possible he'll figure out how to do the barest minumum possible to fulfill
his obligation.
Joyce