Melissa

So...I ask myself why I care what my family says, and generally I
don't. They've never helped with the kids, don't visit often, put the
onus on us. ETC, but I don't mean to start whining. TIA to everyone
who reads this long missive and has something to say.

My (step)mom called the other day, and we were chatting a little bit.
She got onto me for leaving Avari asleep in the truck while I came
inside, the whole deal was that I had just taken seven kids to the
park, and I really had to go to the bathroom. The older kids were
outside playing, and I mentioned that I was going in to pee. When I
came out, my dad was outside playing with the kids so i left her out
there because I figured it was a nice day, the windows were down and
he'd hear her. My mom and I chatted for a little bit, and my dad
brought her inside and said she'd woken up. Okay, seems normal to me.
So a few days later she called and said that what I had done was
completely irresponsible and filled my ear with 'what-ifs'.
Apparently my dad went outside because he felt it wasn't safe and it
wasn't 'fair' of me to expect my kids or my dad to watch her. Then on
with What if the police had come, what if the car was stolen, what if
someone kidnapped her, what if someone wrecked into the truck,
whatever she'd stopped breathing. On and on, and I felt a little
guilty, okay, all those are plausible, but very unlikely. So number
one, is it completely unreasonable to let a responsible eleven year
old keep an eye on a sleeping baby while he's playing outside?

On to my second story, I was very defensive after this onslaught, and
replied to each of her concerns one-by-one, okay, if dad felt it
wasn't fair why didn't he say anything, they live in a safe
neighborhood, you can't start my truck without the computerchip key,
Josh was outside and no one would have gotten into the truck without
him knowing. I was angry by then and conversation was stilted and we
hung up. After a while I called back and told her I was sorry, I was
being defensive and that I appreciated her concerns blahblahblah. She
is my mom, kwim?

So apparently this opened up a door to yet another grudge she's been
holding (God and can she hold them). Total background, their house is
full of antiques and pet stuff and all kinds of intriguing plants and
fountains, statues, clocks. There are no toys whatsoever, we had some
over, she got rid of them because the kids never played with them.
Well, yes, they were all baby toys from when Josh was two or so. They
were stored in a death trap homemade toybox behind all the dog food,
water bowls and a litter box. She's always saying she wants us to
come over and play, visit, etc, and I finally said outright that it's
very hard because there's nothing for the kids to do, there are too
many breakables and it's stressful for ME to control the kids there.
So we opt not to go. That was huge for me to say and she stewed for a
while. A few months ago we were at their house and she had bought a
new antique table and put a heavy glass fountain on top. She pointed
it out to me and said to be careful with the kids, it's wobbly. SO I
told her outright that it was her table and her fountain, and she
needed to explain to the kids her concerns. It's not fair for ME to
have to lay down all these rules, if she wants us to come over, yes?
So a few weeks ago we went back over after park day, and Josh had
picked up one of my dads flutes he made, and was about to blow on it.
I stopped him and say "You know how Granpa feels about your touching
his stuff". That was all I said. And the fact of the matter is that
stuff is much more important to them. ANYWAY....so the phone call I
mentioned earlier turns into her telling me that she has a real
problem with how snotty I was when I said that. I was like, excuse
me? Well, "it's important those kids learn that wherever they go that
they have to ask before they touch things" on and on, hammering it
home with "they have to learn sometime". My thought was they will
learn sometime, but not when they are three, or five or whatever,
when they are older. And they know not to touch at museums or
strangers houses, or whatever. And I told her that most of the houses
we go to don't have those rules, the kids are allowed to touch and
learn and live without all these restrictions. Rachel's godmother is
awesome, they have a house full of antiques and instruments that the
kids can just go to. And adults gently step in and help them do and
play. We choose places that are safe to go to...anyway, I was ready
to cry by the time this came around, because my mom kept saying that
her stuff is important to her, and that she has the right to feel
that way, just on and on about stuff. She said that it was my job to
make sure they behaved when we came over, which I totally agree, but
I think that is why we choose where we go and we'll go where it's
easier on me. And I did tell her that it seemed to me that if you
loved someone you'd want to make it easier for them, rather than
filling your house up with breakables and expecting kids to live in a
museum.

Anyway, two things, Avari sleeping in her carseat with Josh watching
her, and what I can say to my mom, am I being unreasonable, should I
just not go over...talking to her is impossible, she's so toxic with
baggage from her childhood it's not even funny. But i love her
desperately, she's the mom I chose, one who was able to step in a
love me regardless of all the crap from my baggage. Thanks all,

Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Melissa wrote:

> So number
> one, is it completely unreasonable to let a responsible eleven year
> old keep an eye on a sleeping baby while he's playing outside?

Yes. I would expect an 11 yo to get into playing and forget about the
baby. I don't mean they'd do it deliberately but they're going to get
wrapped up in playing. If you asked him to wait at the car and watch,
and you knew it would only be for 2 minutes, that might be more
reasonable.

I think what upset them was the presumption that someone else would
watch the baby. It *is* reasonable for your father to do so when he's
outside with the kids, but it would be responsible to specifically
ask him. Walking off like that suggests you're expecting others to
take over your responsibility just because they're there.

> I finally said outright that it's
> very hard because there's nothing for the kids to do, there are too
> many breakables and it's stressful for ME to control the kids there.

That's a legitimate point.

But it might be in how you're delivering it. If you're saying it in a
whiny voice, complaining about the situation, it's going to come
across differently than if you make it a plain statement of fact.

> And I did tell her that it seemed to me that if you
> loved someone you'd want to make it easier for them, rather than
> filling your house up with breakables and expecting kids to live in a
> museum.

I think you need to leave that as a conclusion they need to draw.
While it might be true, we can't dictate how other people keep their
homes. State *your* difficulties, that while they're this young, it's
too stressful to keep them from touching things that are so
attractive and that you just can't bring them in the house. You can
offer other solutions: having the kids stay outside or meeting them
elsewhere. Let them know you do want to meet with them, but offer
other ways.

How they respond and what solutions they come up with to the problem
-- and perhaps it will be none at all -- is up to them.

Joyce





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Manisha Kher

--- Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:

>
> On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Melissa wrote:
>
> > So number
> > one, is it completely unreasonable to let a
> responsible eleven year
> > old keep an eye on a sleeping baby while he's
> playing outside?
>
> Yes. I would expect an 11 yo to get into playing and
> forget about the
> baby. I don't mean they'd do it deliberately but
> they're going to get
> wrapped up in playing.
Very true. But I didn't see the situation as one in
which the baby needed any watching. I interpreted it
as - "call me if the baby wakes up and starts crying".
That's not an unreasonable expectation of 11 yo.

About visiting them, I think you need to state how
difficult it is for you to mind your children there
and offer to meet them in other places. Do not make it
sound like they need to change their place or
entertain the kids. Just state the problem - kids are
curious etc and offer to meet outdoors or at your
home.

Manisha


Manisha



__________________________________________________
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Kelly Weyd

Melissa,
In my opinion your Mom is being unreasonable. She must have something very painful going on in her life.......atleast that's what is sounds like to me, and she's taking it out on others. Kids can not be expected to go somewhere like that, just keep their hands to themselves, and not touch anything. My impulsive 6 year old would not last one minute in that house. I would suggest you all meet somewhere else other than the house, so that it takes the "house of breakables" out of the equation. A nice kid friendly place where everyone can enjoy themselves.

As far as leaving the baby sleeping in the car. Well we can all analyze or over-analyze our parenting skills. I would not beat yourself up over it. And I think your Mom just took it wayyyyyy too far. Everyone parents differently. My neighbor does things that I don't agree with, and I do things she does not agree with. But we both do a good job raising our kids..........and our kids are happy and healthy. And I can sympathize with you on this, my MIL calls me up all the time worrying about my children and driving me crazy.

Kelly

Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
So...I ask myself why I care what my family says, and generally I
don't. They've never helped with the kids, don't visit often, put the
onus on us. ETC, but I don't mean to start whining. TIA to everyone
who reads this long missive and has something to say.

y defensive after this onslaught, and
our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

Just to clarify...
with the babysitting, it was to be just a few minutes, and I had
asked Josh if he minded keeping an eye on Avari while I went to the
bathroom. He's a grown-up eleven, and unless there are video games
involved, he does not get engrossed. He was sitting in a chair right
outside the truck reading, and I felt comfortable with him watching
her sleep.

I didn't ask my dad to watch her, and my fault was assuming that he
went outside and that he would. My mom had mentioned that he went out
to check on them, so I left it at that because *duh* in my circle of
friends that's what we do.

And ouch! no, I don't whine to my parents (only dh and I guess now to
you guys since it was perceived as whiny). ;-) For ten years I've
been dropping hints and bringing stuff over for the kids, and
offering my house for get-togethers (but it's too far for them to
drive? never mind that the road is two way). I didn't complain about
it, I just finally stood up for me and my kids. I wasn't even
mean ;-) It was a statement. Yes, they have never agreed with any of
my alternatives, they just complain that I won't bring the kids over
to their house. And when I said it, my mom came back with 'it's your
JOB to teach them not to touch things...' and 'they have to LEARN'
and 'everyone has the rule that you ask before you touch things'.
Fact is that there is NOTHING in their house that the kids can touch,
they can't even get a glass out for drinking because they have all
the plastic cups I brought over in storage so they don't mar the
beauty and symmetry of their 'stuff'.

so, is my job to teach them *those* rules...or is my job to keep them
in places where they can live naturally until they are capable of
those rules? I've tried not to dictate how she keeps her home, but
when she's complaining that we don't ever come over and hang out like
all my nonparent siblings, I point out why. Add on the fact that they
only want us to come over after 4pm, and stay all night playing
dominoes, what's the point for us?



On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:12 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

>
>
> Yes. I would expect an 11 yo to get into playing and forget about the
> baby. I don't mean they'd do it deliberately but they're going to get
> wrapped up in playing. If you asked him to wait at the car and watch,
> and you knew it would only be for 2 minutes, that might be more
> reasonable
> > I finally said outright that it's
> > very hard because there's nothing for the kids to do, there are too
> > many breakables and it's stressful for ME to control the kids there.
>
> That's a legitimate point.
>
> But it might be in how you're delivering it. If you're saying it in a
> whiny voice, complaining about the situation, it's going to come
> across differently than if you make it a plain statement of fact.
>
> > And I did tell her that it seemed to me that if you
> > loved someone you'd want to make it easier for them, rather than
> > filling your house up with breakables and expecting kids to live
> in a
> > museum.
>
> I think you need to leave that as a conclusion they need to draw.
> While it might be true, we can't dictate how other people keep their
> homes. State *your* difficulties, that while they're this young, it's
> too stressful to keep them from touching things that are so
> attractive and that you just can't bring them in the house. You can
> offer other solutions: having the kids stay outside or meeting them
> elsewhere. Let them know you do want to meet with them, but offer
> other ways.
>
> How they respond and what solutions they come up with to the problem
> -- and perhaps it will be none at all -- is up to them.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/24/2006 9:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

Anyway, two things, Avari sleeping in her carseat with Josh watching
her, and what I can say to my mom, am I being unreasonable, should I
just not go over...talking to her is impossible, she's so toxic with
baggage from her childhood it's not even funny. But i love her
desperately, she's the mom I chose, one who was able to step in a
love me regardless of all the crap from my baggage. Thanks all,<<<<<

I would not have a problem with an older sibling watching a younger one
asleep in the car while I went in to pee. That only takes a couple of minutes.
Personally I would not for an extended period of time but I think you have to
take into account the community and the child that is asleep. Mine would be
freaked to wake up alone in the car. But that is just my children. I think
the 11 year old could easily be distracted. I would also know, and now you
do, that your dad does not want that responsibility, so I would not count on
him either. If it were me I would stay outside, bring a book or something
and sit while the younger one slept, or carry Avari inside. Just me. But it
is good to know that your dad does not want to be in that situation.

As far as the house of untouchables. I think it is their decision how to
care for their house and your responsibility to care for your children. I
would not be comfortable taking my children over there, at that age. I would be
afraid of damaging something that my parents held dear. Our philosophy is
people are worth more than things, but not everyone shares that feeling. If
they are unwilling to put things up so they won't be damaged, maybe you could
invite them over to your house to visit or for lunch or something. That way
they get to visit with you and your family, as they said they wanted. And
your children will feel comfortable and will be more able to connect with the
grandparents. If you do the inviting, your step/parents will also feel wanted.
They will feel you are making an effort. It might help.

Just a thought,
Pam G






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: autismhelp@...

So number one, is it completely unreasonable to let a responsible
eleven year
old keep an eye on a sleeping baby while he's playing outside?

-=-=-

Depends on the eleven year old and the situation.

-=-=-=-=-

because my mom kept saying that
her stuff is important to her, and that she has the right to feel
that way, just on and on about stuff.

-=-=-=-

And stuff is stuff. She has her right to like all her stuff.

But your children are your CHILDREN, and YOU have the right to feel
that way about real, live, feeling human beings.

-=-=-=-==-

She said that it was my job to
make sure they behaved when we came over, which I totally agree, but
I think that is why we choose where we go and we'll go where it's
easier on me. And I did tell her that it seemed to me that if you
loved someone you'd want to make it easier for them, rather than
filling your house up with breakables and expecting kids to live in a
museum.


-=-=-=-

It's her house. You have no control over how she decorates her house.
Get over it.

At the same time, they're your children, and she has no control over
how you rear your kids. She needs to get over THAT! <g>

-=-===-

Anyway, two things, Avari sleeping in her carseat with Josh watching
her, and what I can say to my mom, am I being unreasonable, should I
just not go over...talking to her is impossible, she's so toxic with
baggage from her childhood it's not even funny.

-=-=-=-

Go over, but not with kids.

Invite her to your turf, where it's safe. Or go to a neutral area---a
park or somewhere.

-=-=-=-

But i love her desperately, she's the mom I chose, one who was able to
step in a
love me regardless of all the crap from my baggage.

-=-=-=-

You "chose" her? Explain, please.



~Kelly

"Wisdom begins in Wonder." ~Socrates


________________________________________________________________________
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Melissa

I thought I mentioned that...sorry! this is my stepmom, my dad
married her when I was 13. While our relationship started out rocky,
she's the one that's been there for me, and when my biomom tried to
put her foot down about choosing one or the other, I chose her. The
reason why I was booted out of the house at 16...and finally got to
live with my dad and stepmom. There is a ton of baggage on my part
from such an abusive childhood, but tons on her part about an abusive
marriage (before my dad, !) Between the two of us, we don't have any
idea of what normal is....kwim?


Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:36 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

> =-=-=-
>
> But i love her desperately, she's the mom I chose, one who was able to
> step in a
> love me regardless of all the crap from my baggage.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> You "chose" her? Explain, please.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]