luvbnhomex3boys

Hi everyone!

I am totally new to the idea of unschooling and have been "lurking"
on this site for a couple of weeks. I think I understand the
educational side of unschooling and am seeing my DS start to become
much more curious and even wanting to learn more. But the parenting
part is what I am having trouble grasping. Here is my example:
Today DS5 (almost 6) went shopping for a new soccer ball before his
first practice. He was very excited and we had a good time while he
picked out the one he wanted. Then it was time to go to the
register and pay. I started to go one way and he started to go back
the way we had came. So, I turned around and started following him.
He got upset because he wanted us each to go a different way and
meet at the registers. I told him we could go either way, but we had
to go together because it was a big store and it was very busy
today. He then takes off running toward the register and I just
walked to them, thinking he would be waiting in one of the lines
when I got there, But he wasn't. I calmly (at least on the outside)
looked at my watch and walked up and down and around the registers
for 5 minutes. Then I asked a cashier to help me find him. Using
her walkie talkie another worker found him under a display.

How would the unschooling parent handle this? I picked him up,
leaving the soccer ball behind and we left the store. When we got
home I put him in his room and when I had calmed down, I asked him
to tell me what he had done wrong and why it was wrong. He told me
running away and hiding and he knew that it scared me and that he
was supposed to stay with me because it wasn't safe for him to go
off alone in a store. I also told him that he would have to just use
his old soccer ball for soccer this year. How do you handle times
when they just need to do what you say? I really feel like this was
a safety issue and wanted some opinions on how you would have
handled this.

Carol

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 8/26/06, luvbnhomex3boys <caples3562@...> wrote:
> So, I turned around and started following him.
> He got upset because he wanted us each to go a different way and
> meet at the registers. I told him we could go either way, but we had
> to go together because it was a big store and it was very busy
> today. He then takes off running toward the register and I just
> walked to them, thinking he would be waiting in one of the lines
> when I got there, But he wasn't.

What do you think would have happened if you had gone with his
origionaly plan and gone a different route. Perhaps you could have
negotiated and said, "OK, you go your way and I'll go mine. Let's see
who can make it to register 7 the fastest." (doesn't matter if
register 7 is open or not, that is just your meeting place.) I bet he
would have been thrilled to have been trusted to get to the checkout
lines on his own *and* he would have been waiting for you at register
7 (or vice versa - in my family I would have purposely gone a bit
slower to make it after him unless he was doing an experiment in
distance and route.) He knew where to go and obviously felt
comfortable with where he was. Although it is scary to let go of
sight of our children, sometimes we need to do this for them as long
as we know that they are going to be safe. I've many times had an
independent child want to do something "on their own" and been in the
distant background where I could still see them, yet they had the
belief that they were independent. going to the bathroom was a big
one for me, especially when I had a son who didn't want to go into the
"girl" bathroom anymore. I remember my trepidation at letting my son
go to the bathroom alone the first time at Disney when his father
wasn't with us to "go too." Even though I could see the bathroom door
from where I stood and watched it like a hawk, I still was
apprehensive.

Sometimes we still make decisions with that former non-unschooling
mind and we need to step back and ask ourselves for a minute "how
would an unschooler handle this?" (I've heard it called on this list,
"WWRenD" or "WWRueD" or "WWKellyD"). It's ok to tell your child,
"Give me a minute to think this through" or "Help me think this
through so we have a plan!"

--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

luvbnhomex3boys

I like that idea!!!!!!
Thanks a lot

Carol



It's ok to tell your child,
> "Give me a minute to think this through" or "Help me think this
> through so we have a plan!"
>
> --
> Michelle
> aka Melbrigða
> http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
> [email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
>

Lesa ODaniel

Carol,

I'm still fairly new to this RU stuff, too, but some things in your post
jumped out at me:

>I told him we could go either way, but we had
>to go together because it was a big store and it was very busy
>today. He then takes off running toward the register and I just
>walked to them, thinking he would be waiting in one of the lines
>when I got there, But he wasn't.

**My son occasionally does things like this (mostly like running in the
parking lot or something like that) and I have just learned to anticipate
that he will usually do this when I'm wanting to control him in that
situation. For example, he'll want to walk "all by himself" but we're in a
parking lot that is a little busier so I'll ask him to stay close or hold on
to the cart or hold my hand, etc., and from experience I know that he'll
want to "push" back when I do that so he darts away. Now I'm trying to do
things differently like just giving him a reminder that "we're in a busy
parking lot" when we're getting out of the car and he'll automatically hold
my hand (I don't even have to ask!). On the occasions when he doesn't hold
my hand and just wants to walk by himself I'll just stick very close behind
him or will walk extra briskly so that I can catch him if a car is coming.

**In your situation in the store I would have done what you did in reminding
him that the store was very busy and you didn't want to lose contact with
him. I don't know how big the store is but maybe it was a place where you
could have done like a "Marco Polo" sort of thing as you walked down
separate aisles so you could keep audible track of each other (I'm only
picturing 2 aisles close by each other so maybe this wasn't possible). If it
wasn't possible, maybe I would have simply said "it's very important to me
that you are safe and in this big busy store, and separating from you just
wouldn't be safe so I'll stay near you". If he darted away like he did, I
would have run after him or at least walked quickly behind him because he
may want to run but it's my responsibility to keep his environment safe for
him.

>How would the unschooling parent handle this? I picked him up,
>leaving the soccer ball behind and we left the store. When we got
>home I put him in his room and when I had calmed down, I asked him
>to tell me what he had done wrong and why it was wrong. He told me
>running away and hiding and he knew that it scared me and that he
>was supposed to stay with me because it wasn't safe for him to go
>off alone in a store. I also told him that he would have to just use
>his old soccer ball for soccer this year.

In this case, you're using punishment which I don't think works. It also
seems a bit excessive (no new ball for a YEAR? that's a lifetime for a
child). I would have still gotten the ball because it's what you went there
for. Not getting it is kind of wiping away all the good memory of the fun
trip to the store (in my opinion). I also would not have "put him in his
room" because maybe he was still a bit scared after being separated from you
and found by a store employee. Maybe he is the type of kid who needed to be
with you to feel better once you were home. Finally, I think that asking him
"what he had done wrong and why it was wrong" is just making him feel even
worse about the whole situation. I don't think it's a problem to explain how
worried you were when you were separated and maybe talk about ways that you
can be sure to stick together in the future but having him rehash the "bad"
stuff he did isn't going to make him feel better or help him learn from this
experience. I think it does do a lot to help him remember what a horrible
time he had going to the store today.


Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N

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Joyce Fetteroll

On Aug 26, 2006, at 7:05 PM, luvbnhomex3boys wrote:

> I told him we could go either way, but we had
> to go together because it was a big store and it was very busy
> today.

Rather than turning him into the problem, how about involving him in
the problem solving? You can be honest and tell him it worries you
because the store is so big. Ask him for help in thinking up safe
strategies. What if he gets lost? What's a safe way he can find his
way to the registers? It can not only help him be safe but help him
learn problem solving by modeling it for him.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

Oops, sent it before I finished.

> He told me
> running away and hiding and he knew that it scared me and that he
> was supposed to stay with me because it wasn't safe for him to go
> off alone in a store.

I think from his point of view you were wrong. You're saying it won't
be safe and yet he was away from you for a good piece of time and was
perfectly fine.

I once saw a mother and child in a paint your own pottery place and
the mom kept patiently saying, "Don't touch, they'll break." And the
child kept touching them gently, clearly saying with his actions
"Mom, you're wrong. Look, I'm touching and they aren't breaking."

I think rather than focusing on the fear of what might happen, it's
better to focus on the strategies and tools for safety. Help him to
be more powerful rather than less.

> I also told him that he would have to just use
> his old soccer ball for soccer this year.

Apologize. Tell him you were scared. If you help him with some
strategies when he gets lost help him realize that you'll have to
find new "landmarks" in each store since they're set up differently.
(Undoubtedly something he knows but hasn't thought about in practical
terms.) And go back -- when the store isn't so busy so you'll be less
afraid -- and get the soccer ball. :-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David

On Aug 26, 2006, at 7:05 PM, luvbnhomex3boys wrote:

> I told him we could go either way, but we had
> to go together because it was a big store and it was very busy
> today.

Rather than turning him into the problem, how about involving him in
the problem solving? You can be honest and tell him it worries you
because the store is so big. Ask him for help in thinking up safe
strategies. What if he gets lost? What's a safe way he can find his
way to the registers? It can not only help him be safe but help him
learn problem solving by modeling it for him.

Joyce

----------

Joyce, I really like your suggestion to involve him in the problem solving.
Talk about what could possibly happen (what is mom's biggest fear?), and
work out a plan. I, personally, find it helpful to go all out (in my own
head) and imagine the absolute worst thing that can possibly happen, and
then work out a plan in response. I'm sure that most major stores have the
capacity to completely shut down on a moment's notice if a child gets lost.
I know parents who have done this when their little one snuck off. It was
really embarrassing for the parent (the whole "can't you control your kid in
public" issue), but the bottom line was, the child was actually safe, even
when away from the parent. Also, I don't think we can underestimate the
importance of teaching our children which adults they can/should approach in
the event they get lost or into trouble in a public place. For a while I
played the "does he/she work here?" game with my oldest, so now he knows who
to flag down when he needs some help (usually just to find a particular
toy!).

Blessings,

Monique

Kiersten Pasciak

There is a Sesame Street video which is a short primer on this. Big
Bird gets separated from Maria in a big store. It covers looking for
someone who works there and what to say. Also has a song for
memorizing your phone number. Also talks about picking out a meet-up
place for if you get split up.

Making sure your kids know your "real" name is a good idea. When we
were camping, we came upon a lost little girl. All she new (or could
say at the time) was that her dad's name was "Daddy". She was 5.

The book "Protecting the Gift" also recommends telling your children
that if they get lost they should seek out a woman, preferably a
woman with children to help them. The whole "find a police oficer to
help you deal" is soooo unlikely.

Kiersten


> Joyce, I really like your suggestion to involve him in the problem
solving.
> Talk about what could possibly happen (what is mom's biggest
fear?), and
> work out a plan. I, personally, find it helpful to go all out (in
my own
> head) and imagine the absolute worst thing that can possibly
happen, and
> then work out a plan in response. I'm sure that most major stores
have the
> capacity to completely shut down on a moment's notice if a child
gets lost.
> I know parents who have done this when their little one snuck
off. It was
> really embarrassing for the parent (the whole "can't you control
your kid in
> public" issue), but the bottom line was, the child was actually
safe, even
> when away from the parent. Also, I don't think we can
underestimate the
> importance of teaching our children which adults they can/should
approach in
> the event they get lost or into trouble in a public place. For a
while I
> played the "does he/she work here?" game with my oldest, so now he
knows who
> to flag down when he needs some help (usually just to find a
particular
> toy!).
>
> Blessings,
>
> Monique
>