9 yo boys??
Jane
I'm stuck. Really stuck. For the past 4 weeks my 9yo son has been mean, moody, physically violent, nagging, consistently speaking really rudely, every effort being an immense event, and more. Christopher is a shadow of the person I knew. He used to be engaged, passionate. I thought it was a lack of strewing, but he doesn't seem to find much that catches his attention -- except the TV!!! I don't think that TV is "bad" at all, but anything at all for 4 weeks of being in the house to enable him to do it is asking a lot!!
The hitting episode I relayed when he hit his 2 yo sister and sent her flying is just some of what he does. No matter how I choose to engage him, he, almost routinely replies rudely. Really rudely. Rolls eyes. Glares. Clenches his fists. If I ask for help, I rarely get it. If I do, it's *such* a drama.
I tried to have a discussion with him about his anger, but discussions failed after an amazing start. Stopped. Cold turkey.
I have tried to discuss what's bothering him so. He won't discuss.
I have tried strewing. I have tried giving until I feel like Gumby. I thought he needed more one on one time, but he's really not an easy person to be with, and if I do give him my undivided time, he *still* chooses amazing amounts of rudeness.
There are 3 other small people who live here who are also being effected by Christopher's behaviour. His 7yo brother, easily the kindest soul on the planet, is starting to head in the same direction. My 5 yo dd bends over backwards to be kind to me in a seeming effort to compensate. This too concerns me.
Dh is not so on board with the u/s'ing thing. He says that Christopher needs more control. If I had more control over him... He says that Christopher needs structure. He says that I should just tell him what to do. None of those options are remotely palatable, but, this is really tough. Dh also offers that the shows he watches (Cartoon Network, Nick, Disney) have influenced him. I don't buy that either. I have consistently asked 3 other folks to give to enable Christopher his TV, to allow us to leave later, to not go at all at times. It's to the point of just plain not being fair to any of us.
I'm melting down myself. Being greeted by a consistent stream of garbage and remaining kind, calm, and collected just isn't something I can do, nor should I have to -- also something I've told Christopher. I still get basically garbage.
Have any of you BTDT??? I need tools (and not traditional ones!!). I keep looking for solutions, asking for help/input from Christopher, but I'm getting nowhere.
Help...
Jane
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
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The hitting episode I relayed when he hit his 2 yo sister and sent her flying is just some of what he does. No matter how I choose to engage him, he, almost routinely replies rudely. Really rudely. Rolls eyes. Glares. Clenches his fists. If I ask for help, I rarely get it. If I do, it's *such* a drama.
I tried to have a discussion with him about his anger, but discussions failed after an amazing start. Stopped. Cold turkey.
I have tried to discuss what's bothering him so. He won't discuss.
I have tried strewing. I have tried giving until I feel like Gumby. I thought he needed more one on one time, but he's really not an easy person to be with, and if I do give him my undivided time, he *still* chooses amazing amounts of rudeness.
There are 3 other small people who live here who are also being effected by Christopher's behaviour. His 7yo brother, easily the kindest soul on the planet, is starting to head in the same direction. My 5 yo dd bends over backwards to be kind to me in a seeming effort to compensate. This too concerns me.
Dh is not so on board with the u/s'ing thing. He says that Christopher needs more control. If I had more control over him... He says that Christopher needs structure. He says that I should just tell him what to do. None of those options are remotely palatable, but, this is really tough. Dh also offers that the shows he watches (Cartoon Network, Nick, Disney) have influenced him. I don't buy that either. I have consistently asked 3 other folks to give to enable Christopher his TV, to allow us to leave later, to not go at all at times. It's to the point of just plain not being fair to any of us.
I'm melting down myself. Being greeted by a consistent stream of garbage and remaining kind, calm, and collected just isn't something I can do, nor should I have to -- also something I've told Christopher. I still get basically garbage.
Have any of you BTDT??? I need tools (and not traditional ones!!). I keep looking for solutions, asking for help/input from Christopher, but I'm getting nowhere.
Help...
Jane
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
Hi, Jane! I'm no expert on your situation, but I do know it is
tough. Believe it or not I went through something similar with our
14-year-old son. It's a rocky road and can be truly exhausting.
The best thing I can recommend is to read as much relevant material
as you can. Do searches Online and through your library co-op on
topics like "Mindful Parenting" and "Spirited Children". Really pay
attention to what triggers your son's behavior. You can get really
good at recognizing his cues and creating situations that minimize
his intense feelings helping him to work through them without having
such a negative impact on himself and those around him.
Try to remember that he doesn't naturally want to feel so intense
any more than you want to feel his intensity. Continue
communicating with him. Once he sees that it is "safe" to talk with
you I'm sure he'll start opening up more. Be patient. I
know...easier said than done, but it really is key. Once he sees
you as a "safe harbor" it will be easier for him to open up and
really *be* with you.
Even when he is intense remain calm yourself. This will help him SO
much. I know this is tough, and it does take practice, but it
really does make a difference. It helps to remember that it's not
personal, so don't take it personal. When I was going through that
tough spot with my 14-year-old it help SO much to just talk to him
AND tell him how his treatment of me was hurting me. Be sure to
avoid lecturing, though. Trust me, it was REALLY intense for a
little bit, but it did get better.
The book I recommended in my previous post, "The Hidden Feelings of
Motherhood", has a chapter that is specifically about what you are
going through. It's worth the read. I think you'd enjoy it.
Hang in there and keep reading. The more you immerse yourself in
the possibility of peace the easier it will be to obtain.
Hugs - Tina
tough. Believe it or not I went through something similar with our
14-year-old son. It's a rocky road and can be truly exhausting.
The best thing I can recommend is to read as much relevant material
as you can. Do searches Online and through your library co-op on
topics like "Mindful Parenting" and "Spirited Children". Really pay
attention to what triggers your son's behavior. You can get really
good at recognizing his cues and creating situations that minimize
his intense feelings helping him to work through them without having
such a negative impact on himself and those around him.
Try to remember that he doesn't naturally want to feel so intense
any more than you want to feel his intensity. Continue
communicating with him. Once he sees that it is "safe" to talk with
you I'm sure he'll start opening up more. Be patient. I
know...easier said than done, but it really is key. Once he sees
you as a "safe harbor" it will be easier for him to open up and
really *be* with you.
Even when he is intense remain calm yourself. This will help him SO
much. I know this is tough, and it does take practice, but it
really does make a difference. It helps to remember that it's not
personal, so don't take it personal. When I was going through that
tough spot with my 14-year-old it help SO much to just talk to him
AND tell him how his treatment of me was hurting me. Be sure to
avoid lecturing, though. Trust me, it was REALLY intense for a
little bit, but it did get better.
The book I recommended in my previous post, "The Hidden Feelings of
Motherhood", has a chapter that is specifically about what you are
going through. It's worth the read. I think you'd enjoy it.
Hang in there and keep reading. The more you immerse yourself in
the possibility of peace the easier it will be to obtain.
Hugs - Tina
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
I have consistently asked 3 other folks to give to enable Christopher his TV, to allow us to leave later, to not go at all at times.
*********
Do you ever leave C at home? I believe that 9 is a fine age to start letting him stay home for short periods of time, with some guidelines. He's got the TV, set him up a cooler or something, print out your cell number as well as the number of where yyou are going. Could be that he is striving for some time without everyone. TV can be a way to concentrate on something other than little kids, people needing help etc.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*********
Do you ever leave C at home? I believe that 9 is a fine age to start letting him stay home for short periods of time, with some guidelines. He's got the TV, set him up a cooler or something, print out your cell number as well as the number of where yyou are going. Could be that he is striving for some time without everyone. TV can be a way to concentrate on something other than little kids, people needing help etc.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jane
I went to the grocery store yesterday and offered Christopher the choice to stay at home. He stayed here. I was gone for an hour. While I didn't expect to come home to a changed child, my offer and his time alone did not make any difference. He was the same, if not more angry than before.
Though I am not proud of my choice, I chose to turn off the TV for our family for today. Imo, his consistent viewing seems to be the trigger. Just as he was starting to groan about the TV being off, a neighbor's son arrived to play. They've been playing for a while now, and the engaged, interested, and amazing son I knew was in there is showing himself. Perhaps, I hope, this will mark the beginning of something new and a departure from where we were (ick!!). Often, the juxtoposing of how we live and function as a family and how our neighbor's son lives helps us get back into sync.
I have another window open and am searching the library's shelves in a virtual manner to be able to get something more to read. I will keep looking for triggers too.
I have learned that me being calm is paramount to us, as a whole, getting through this. That said though, I am under constant attack and am sincerely unable to get a good few moments before the next grenade is launched and explodes. I'm working on it, and I have gotten *much* better, but it's still a challenge.
Seeing some of the son I know, even for a while today, had helped us all immensely!! Hopefully this is something better!!
Thank you sincerely for taking the time to post!!!
Jane
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
Hi, Jane! I'm no expert on your situation, but I do know it is
tough. Believe it or not I went through something similar with our
14-year-old son. It's a rocky road and can be truly exhausting.
The best thing I can recommend is to read as much relevant material
as you can. Do searches Online and through your library co-op on
topics like "Mindful Parenting" and "Spirited Children". Really pay
attention to what triggers your son's behavior. You can get really
good at recognizing his cues and creating situations that minimize
his intense feelings helping him to work through them without having
such a negative impact on himself and those around him.
Try to remember that he doesn't naturally want to feel so intense
any more than you want to feel his intensity. Continue
communicating with him. Once he sees that it is "safe" to talk with
you I'm sure he'll start opening up more. Be patient. I
know...easier said than done, but it really is key. Once he sees
you as a "safe harbor" it will be easier for him to open up and
really *be* with you.
Even when he is intense remain calm yourself. This will help him SO
much. I know this is tough, and it does take practice, but it
really does make a difference. It helps to remember that it's not
personal, so don't take it personal. When I was going through that
tough spot with my 14-year-old it help SO much to just talk to him
AND tell him how his treatment of me was hurting me. Be sure to
avoid lecturing, though. Trust me, it was REALLY intense for a
little bit, but it did get better.
The book I recommended in my previous post, "The Hidden Feelings of
Motherhood", has a chapter that is specifically about what you are
going through. It's worth the read. I think you'd enjoy it.
Hang in there and keep reading. The more you immerse yourself in
the possibility of peace the easier it will be to obtain.
Hugs - Tina
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
Groups are talking. Were listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Though I am not proud of my choice, I chose to turn off the TV for our family for today. Imo, his consistent viewing seems to be the trigger. Just as he was starting to groan about the TV being off, a neighbor's son arrived to play. They've been playing for a while now, and the engaged, interested, and amazing son I knew was in there is showing himself. Perhaps, I hope, this will mark the beginning of something new and a departure from where we were (ick!!). Often, the juxtoposing of how we live and function as a family and how our neighbor's son lives helps us get back into sync.
I have another window open and am searching the library's shelves in a virtual manner to be able to get something more to read. I will keep looking for triggers too.
I have learned that me being calm is paramount to us, as a whole, getting through this. That said though, I am under constant attack and am sincerely unable to get a good few moments before the next grenade is launched and explodes. I'm working on it, and I have gotten *much* better, but it's still a challenge.
Seeing some of the son I know, even for a while today, had helped us all immensely!! Hopefully this is something better!!
Thank you sincerely for taking the time to post!!!
Jane
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
Hi, Jane! I'm no expert on your situation, but I do know it is
tough. Believe it or not I went through something similar with our
14-year-old son. It's a rocky road and can be truly exhausting.
The best thing I can recommend is to read as much relevant material
as you can. Do searches Online and through your library co-op on
topics like "Mindful Parenting" and "Spirited Children". Really pay
attention to what triggers your son's behavior. You can get really
good at recognizing his cues and creating situations that minimize
his intense feelings helping him to work through them without having
such a negative impact on himself and those around him.
Try to remember that he doesn't naturally want to feel so intense
any more than you want to feel his intensity. Continue
communicating with him. Once he sees that it is "safe" to talk with
you I'm sure he'll start opening up more. Be patient. I
know...easier said than done, but it really is key. Once he sees
you as a "safe harbor" it will be easier for him to open up and
really *be* with you.
Even when he is intense remain calm yourself. This will help him SO
much. I know this is tough, and it does take practice, but it
really does make a difference. It helps to remember that it's not
personal, so don't take it personal. When I was going through that
tough spot with my 14-year-old it help SO much to just talk to him
AND tell him how his treatment of me was hurting me. Be sure to
avoid lecturing, though. Trust me, it was REALLY intense for a
little bit, but it did get better.
The book I recommended in my previous post, "The Hidden Feelings of
Motherhood", has a chapter that is specifically about what you are
going through. It's worth the read. I think you'd enjoy it.
Hang in there and keep reading. The more you immerse yourself in
the possibility of peace the easier it will be to obtain.
Hugs - Tina
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
Groups are talking. Were listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***For the past 4 weeks my 9yo son has been mean, moody, physically
violent, nagging, consistently speaking really rudely, every effort being
an immense event, and more. ***
The most common reason people are mean is because they're hurting. Is
someone hurting your son? Is it possible someone is hurting him and
you're unaware of it?
The next thing I'd think about is how much consideration he gets at home.
Sometimes the oldest child is expected to do more and be more mature
when he's really not able. They can look so big to us, seem so capable
compared to the littler ones.
Is he being frustrated in the things he wants to do? Does he hear "no"
a lot? It's hard to be nice if you're frustrated and can't do anything
to change your situation.
Maybe I missed previous post but how long have you been unschooling? Is
he deschooling? Is he feeling lost, left on his own, scared?
This only occurred in the last month? What's happened in the last month?
Is he sick? Does he have a pain? Has he been through a trauma?
As hard as it is for you it's harder for him. You've had years on the
planet and you've had experience with angry people before. He's so young
and so new to everything. Big emotions can be frightening and
overwhelming. He doesn't want to feel bad and he doesn't want you to
feel bad about him. He is trying to communicate with you. You just
need to find the strength to be calm and steady while you try to figure
out what he needs.
If he's feeling injured in some way, emotionally, or whatever his problem
is, actions you take that will seem like punishment to him will not help
him feel like talking to you. It won't help him feel better about you
and it won't help him feel like you want to help. Even if you don't
intend the removal of TV as a punishment if it is perceived as such by
him, and if his problem stems from a feeling of powerlessness or
frustration it won't help, in the long run.
Whatever action you take to address this should be a positive motion
toward your son, not limiting actions, not a moving yourself (or stuff)
away from him.
Deb Lewis
violent, nagging, consistently speaking really rudely, every effort being
an immense event, and more. ***
The most common reason people are mean is because they're hurting. Is
someone hurting your son? Is it possible someone is hurting him and
you're unaware of it?
The next thing I'd think about is how much consideration he gets at home.
Sometimes the oldest child is expected to do more and be more mature
when he's really not able. They can look so big to us, seem so capable
compared to the littler ones.
Is he being frustrated in the things he wants to do? Does he hear "no"
a lot? It's hard to be nice if you're frustrated and can't do anything
to change your situation.
Maybe I missed previous post but how long have you been unschooling? Is
he deschooling? Is he feeling lost, left on his own, scared?
This only occurred in the last month? What's happened in the last month?
Is he sick? Does he have a pain? Has he been through a trauma?
As hard as it is for you it's harder for him. You've had years on the
planet and you've had experience with angry people before. He's so young
and so new to everything. Big emotions can be frightening and
overwhelming. He doesn't want to feel bad and he doesn't want you to
feel bad about him. He is trying to communicate with you. You just
need to find the strength to be calm and steady while you try to figure
out what he needs.
If he's feeling injured in some way, emotionally, or whatever his problem
is, actions you take that will seem like punishment to him will not help
him feel like talking to you. It won't help him feel better about you
and it won't help him feel like you want to help. Even if you don't
intend the removal of TV as a punishment if it is perceived as such by
him, and if his problem stems from a feeling of powerlessness or
frustration it won't help, in the long run.
Whatever action you take to address this should be a positive motion
toward your son, not limiting actions, not a moving yourself (or stuff)
away from him.
Deb Lewis
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
When I was a kid I did go thru some anger-towards-my-mom stages. ( She was awesome by the way).
If she had turned off the tv on me I would have been pissed.
Looking back I needed more undivided attention. But I was an easy going kid and she was busy with my siblings that were more spirited. So I did not get my need for her met.
See where I am going....?
I also could not verbalize the need. Even in today I have a problem saying: "I need you mom".
Also when I am frustrated with something I do take it on her if she is around, to this day.
I love my mom and she is great.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If she had turned off the tv on me I would have been pissed.
Looking back I needed more undivided attention. But I was an easy going kid and she was busy with my siblings that were more spirited. So I did not get my need for her met.
See where I am going....?
I also could not verbalize the need. Even in today I have a problem saying: "I need you mom".
Also when I am frustrated with something I do take it on her if she is around, to this day.
I love my mom and she is great.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jane
Wow!! What a list to think through!! Thanks!!
He's none of the things you list: not hurt nor hurting, not a put upon oldest child, doesn't hear "no" unless it's "no hitting", etc. We've been unschooling for 2 1/2 years. In his 9 years, he has had 4 months of preschool. We were never true homeschoolers and always ecclectic at best in terms of structure and rigidity. This is week 4 for these changes. No trauma, no changes that I can see to anything other than the TV. I do believe he's looking for a new direction, but either can't verbalize where he wants to go, or, doesn't know what's out there.
I do keep supporting him as much as possible, giving him as much space as I can when he seems to need it, hugging him as he sees fit, etc.
I'm now armed with reading material as well. I'm hoping that my consistent effort combined with careful thought and examination and the material I'm reading will help. I just don't have any more answers/ideas than that right now.
Thanks!!
Jane
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He's none of the things you list: not hurt nor hurting, not a put upon oldest child, doesn't hear "no" unless it's "no hitting", etc. We've been unschooling for 2 1/2 years. In his 9 years, he has had 4 months of preschool. We were never true homeschoolers and always ecclectic at best in terms of structure and rigidity. This is week 4 for these changes. No trauma, no changes that I can see to anything other than the TV. I do believe he's looking for a new direction, but either can't verbalize where he wants to go, or, doesn't know what's out there.
I do keep supporting him as much as possible, giving him as much space as I can when he seems to need it, hugging him as he sees fit, etc.
I'm now armed with reading material as well. I'm hoping that my consistent effort combined with careful thought and examination and the material I'm reading will help. I just don't have any more answers/ideas than that right now.
Thanks!!
Jane
Jane Powell
Tribe Commander
"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Janqlan
Just in case, I have a 9 y/o son also and have been reading all these "9 y/o boys" posts voraciously..... and learning from them (hopefully)! I've noticed similar behaviour intermittently and had used some of the ideas offered, for him sometimes he was just tired and or hungry.But other times I do really think it was me greasing the squeaky wheel(his 7 y/o brother) and when I gave him more time , it "fed" him. But I am only realizing this as I write it.
Anyway Thanks and you're helping more than just one (as usual)
Lisa
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Anyway Thanks and you're helping more than just one (as usual)
Lisa
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