Ren Allen

"And, are there RU people out there who have raised children without
buying them everything for consumption they desire who have older
kids? Are they totally eating the opposite?"

Well, I've never bought EVERYTHING for consumption that they desire.
We don't happen to have a budget for that. But they DO have great
influence over the grocery trips and they do have choice. I always
look at the money and either give them an amount to buy what they wish
(just roughly, I don't hand them the money I just know about what each
kid can spend without gouging into the meals) or ask them what they
want in each section.

They tell me what meals and snacks they want, I make sure we get the
ingredients. When they want something like cinnamon rolls, I might say
"hey, let's make those ourselves, we'll get more and it costs less".
If they want an expensive chip, I might say "let's get these instead,
they cost $1 less per bag".
Or I might look at the ingredients and say "gosh, these have
_______,________ and ________, why don't we get this other brand that
has better ingredients"

They're not living in a void where the adults aren't sharing
information with them. I think hydrogenated oil is nasty. I think all
the processing we do to food can be awful. I think whole, pure foods
ARE better.
BUT, I also think that we can eat candy bars, sugary cereal and other
less healthy choices without shame, guilt or worry about health!!
And we do. If my child wants some Doritos, I'm not going to make them
feel badly for that choice. If I have a better alternative up my
sleeve, I'll point it out, but sometimes they just really want Doritos!

So here's how our diet started out and evolved. I went vegetarian when
pregnant with Jared in 1992. I was really INTO eathing healthy, to the
point that I'd tell Trevor not to eat things at other people's
parties. Way too controlling.
I relaxed as the years went by, but I still did NOT buy items with dye
or hydrogenated oils blah, blah, blah. They were raised vegetarian.
When Sierra was little and Jalen was born I totally relaxed. I decided
certain things weren't stressing about, but still tried to buy the
healthier alternative, including soy milk.

Guess what?
All of my children like eating meat, none of them like soy milk (and
the two older boys were raised on nothing but), all of them like
sugary cereals and cow milk! So much for certain things tasting
"foreign".:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

techwritercsbn

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:

> Well, I've never bought EVERYTHING for consumption that they desire.
> We don't happen to have a budget for that. But they DO have great
> influence over the grocery trips and they do have choice. I always
> look at the money and either give them an amount to buy what they
wish
> (just roughly, I don't hand them the money I just know about what
each
> kid can spend without gouging into the meals) or ask them what they
> want in each section.

That is a great plan. I shop at one place primarily (and should have
a grocery budget, but don't), so that in itself might be limiting,
but it is still a great plan. My oldest does come with me and picks
out food. She is also in charge of the fruits and veggies for the
week and tries to find a new one each time (I just had fresh currants
for the first time -- sour!!! but kinda good, too :). She has money
to spend every week, but since a few trips to the bank with DH, never
wants to spend it and is obsessed with going to the bank to put it in!

> They tell me what meals and snacks they want, I make sure we get the
> ingredients. When they want something like cinnamon rolls, I might
say
> "hey, let's make those ourselves, we'll get more and it costs less".
> If they want an expensive chip, I might say "let's get these
instead,
> they cost $1 less per bag".

Makes sense to me! We have brownies and cheesecake and all of that,
but the ingredients are vastly different than standards. Still, I've
fooled everyone with them and they can't believe the ingredients!
Those ones I buy though and they are pricey...haven't figured out how
to make them. I do make lots of treats, but they still tend to taste
healthfoodsy to everyone but our family!)

> Or I might look at the ingredients and say "gosh, these have
> _______,________ and ________, why don't we get this other brand
that
> has better ingredients"

Excellent way to say it. :)

> They're not living in a void where the adults aren't sharing
> information with them. I think hydrogenated oil is nasty. I think
all
> the processing we do to food can be awful. I think whole, pure foods
> ARE better.
> BUT, I also think that we can eat candy bars, sugary cereal and
other
> less healthy choices without shame, guilt or worry about health!!
> And we do. If my child wants some Doritos, I'm not going to make
them
> feel badly for that choice. If I have a better alternative up my
> sleeve, I'll point it out, but sometimes they just really want
Doritos!

Me too! I'm just hoping that the balance is like 90% on the whole
and pure and 10% on the not-so-whole-and-pure! I'm hoping that
exposure to lots of whole and pure foods combined with gentle
information will get them to stay there. I'm just not sure how to do
that without using scary terminology or overwhelming them with info
they don't want, etc.

> Guess what?
> All of my children like eating meat, none of them like soy milk (and
> the two older boys were raised on nothing but), all of them like
> sugary cereals and cow milk! So much for certain things tasting
> "foreign".:)

Yah, I guess so! And I have to admit, I don't eat a lot of what I
was raised on (though I cannot say I didn't like it then or wouldn't
like it now - I just avoid certain things based on having more
information). But you're right...it can go both ways I guess!

Did they just one day say, hey I want some meat, cow milk, sugary
cereal, etc. even though they hadn't been exposed and it was foreign
to them? Unusual kid behavior (that urge to eat foreign foods LOL!),
but I've seen stranger things happen!!!

:)

Ren Allen

~Yah, me, too. But seriously, what would (will) you do if they want
them? Say you provided good information in a loving way with no
guilt, etc. and they still want them? Will you buy them?~

I might.
I really believe that smoking happens for reasons that don't apply to
most unschooled children. There's also the factor of genetics and
personality. If my children choose to smoke, there's not much I can
do about it. They will become adults, they will have free access to
the same things in the world as I do.

I don't smoke. Why not? I have money and freedom to choose to smoke,
but I don't. I don't believe my children will either. Some of our best
friends smoke (more than one) and so far my kids think it's awful.
They also understand WHY some people choose to, and how addictive it
can be and so difficult to stop.

As to buying them...yep, I just might. I'm going on a hypothetical
situation, since none of my children have any desire to touch a
cigarette, but I can see a situation where I'd be willing to fund
their habit. Here it is:

IF one of my children chose to smoke regardless of the overwhelming
information and conclusive evidence that it is very unhealthy, then
they'd choose to smoke. End of story right?
But WHAT they smoked would matter to me.

Cigarette manufacturer's add arsenic (to make them burn faster), tar
(to make them addictive, the nicotine doesn't come from the tobbacco
itself), fiberglass filters and other extremely toxic additives. Much
worse than anything added to food. If that was all my child could
afford, and refused to quit, then I'd buy them American Naturals which
have cotton filters and pure tobbacco.

I really don't think smoking is as bad for human beings as the
cigarrette is. Pure tobbacco smoked might be somewhat harmful, but
it's all the crap added that make them deadly. I'd rather fund a
healthier alternative than have my child smoke the mainstream version.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

~We all have to do what is best for us with the information we have.
I'm working to give the kids the info, but in the meantime........?? ~


Maybe quit "working" at it.:)
Food is ideally a source of joy. If food tastes good, is eaten in joy
and a source of pleasure, then most of the concerns fall by the wayside.
Focusing on it so much, in a worried way, does not help anyone be
healthy either.

The very fact that we can all discuss "healthy" vs. "unhealthy" and
organic vs. non-organic or any other food related discussion, is a
sign of extreme WEALTH. No matter the food choices, we all HAVE
choice. Even the most poor in our country, have more choice than
thousands and millions of people in the world.

If you're worrying about healthy food, or how to maintain the ideal
diet, just remember, the fact that you can consider any of this is due
to the overwhelmingly wealthy country we live in. We're all pretty lucky.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

~But now we are in meta-discussion, right?~

Uh..no.

Meta-discussion is when a person is discussing posts themselves, or
how others should post, or about the list itself, rather than the
philsophy or idea being discussed. Everything you wrote was about food
that I could see.

Ren, deciding to sleep in her bed rather than the tent in the yard
after being woken by a very loud train (gawd, are they always this loud?)
learninginfreedom.com

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jul 13, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> I don't smoke. Why not? I have money and freedom to choose to smoke,
> but I don't. I don't believe my children will either. Some of our best
> friends smoke (more than one) and so far my kids think it's awful.
> They also understand WHY some people choose to, and how addictive it
> can be and so difficult to st

It would be interesting to find out how many always-radically-
unschooled kids decide to smoke cigarettes. I know one of my older
daughter's always-unschooled friends smoked as an older teen - but
she stopped when she hit 20 or so. They're kids - they discount the
future a LOT. But, I'd guess it is a far lower proportion of teens
than in the general population.

I'd be especially interested in looking at how many smokers there are
among the always-radically-unschooled kids with parents who don't smoke.

With full information about the harm of smoking and the habit of
making consciously thought-out decisions along with a deep sense of
self-respect - seems unlikely that as many unschooled kids would
choose to smoke.

I know for sure mine won't smoke cigarettes. I can say that with
absolute confidence - brave of me, huh? <G>
But - they're already at or past the usual age of starting and they
are very clear that they think it is a dumb thing to get started
doing. Plus, they are singers and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize
the quality of their voices.

I never once told them not to smoke. Really didn't say much about it
one way or another, to be honest. They've just picked up the
information themselves and come to their own conclusions.

We don't drink alcohol either - my dh or I. I assumed my kids would
try alcohol and marijuana, at least a time or two. Roya has tried
both a few times - didn't like either of them at all. Again, doesn't
get the point of doing something that makes you think less clearly
and lose any amount of control over your own behavior. The other
girls haven't tried them yet, probably will, but maybe not. I have
never told them not to drink or smoke pot -- and have openly talked
about the reasons people like it - the benefits people get. Roya (21)
has a zillion college friends who drink and smoke pot - she tends to
go do something else when they do, because she thinks they get boring
or annoying when they are intoxicated or high.

-pam

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