Lesa ODaniel

What to do? What to do? My intent is not to offend anyone here, so I hope I
get my point across while still being respectful...

My mother is very religious. I don't have a problem with that. I am not
religious. She has a HUGE problem with that. I used to be religious and I
don't have a problem with others seeking out comfort in religion and a
relationship with God. It's just that I don't believe in it anymore and I
have a hard time feigning belief or interest in the stories in the Bible.

My son is 2 and LOVES LOVES LOVES books of all kinds. My mother consistently
sends him religious books for children (Veggie Tales, a first Bible, other
Bible Stories with cartoon-ish drawings, etc.). So far, I have to admit, I
have been donating them to other kids in local charities or giving them to
the Mission downtown. I have never shown them to him and since my mother is
all the way across the country (I'm in Los Angeles and she's in Ohio), she
is never the wiser...

My newly unschooly self is beginning to feel not so honest and upfront with
my son about this and I want him to make up his own mind about religion.
Should he choose to be religious, that's fine with me. It's just difficult
for me to present these ideas to him because of my own issues with religion.
I just got home a few minutes ago and found a huge box full of new religious
children's books. It's like my mom has a video camera here and knows that I
don't give them to him... she's replenishing the inventory. My son is
napping now so he doesn't know that I have a bunch of new books. He might
even like them...

Please give me some perspective on how to view this situation. How would you
handle it? I'm feeling like I should provide them for him so that he can
make up his own mind over time. How do you get past the prejudices or biases
you might have about a particular subject for the sake of your child's
freedom to learn and choose their own paths? Thanks in advance!



Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N

_________________________________________________________________
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Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/28/06, Lesa ODaniel <lesaodaniel@...> wrote:
> What to do? What to do? My intent is not to offend anyone here, so I hope I
> get my point across while still being respectful...
>

Your son is how old? Two? I think it is important that you talk to
your mother and tell her in respectful language that you know that she
loves you and cares for you and your son. You appreciate her
thoughtfulness in sending him books and other presents (I'm sure).
Then say, "I feel disrespected when religious material is sent to our
home when you know that we don't agree on the matter of religion."
This is YOUR home. Yes; we are unschoolers, but even on the subject
of religion we are allowed opinions and the ability to express those
opinions to your child when you feel your child is old enough to be
able to look at things objectively.

I've had this same discussion with my own mother. My mom is an
Episcopal priest. Over the years she has greatly mellowed, but when
she first started sending religious things to my home I had to put a
stop to it. She was spending her money for things that my children
would never get. I also felt that while I respected her religion in
her home (bowing my head for prayers and not talking about my
religious beliefs in her home) I expected the same respect from her in
my home. I would never gift my mom with a pentacle no matter how
beautiful I thought it was. I would never give my mom a book written
by some eclectic Pagan author because I know that to her it was deemed
evil. Fortunately, my mom has come a long way and now is much more
unitarian in her beliefs. It took us a LONG time to get to that
point.

It all comes down to respect and you need to establish that respect
now while your son is young so that it doesn't become a battling
ground when he is older.

JMNSHO

--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

Melissa

I wouldn't even look at it as religion, I would look at it as gifts
from his grandmother. If he chooses to read through them, it should
be easy to just bite your tongue and do it. If he doesn't like them,
then you aren't the one choosing, he is. And if he has some he really
likes, then you can take pleasure in his pleasure. Veggietale books
aren't always blatantly religious, we have some good math and telling
time ones that the kids like. And even the really religious ones,
like "Where's God when I'm scared?" address issues that many children
face, and help. Even if YOU don't face it from a Christian aspect, it
can open the door to discussions with him about why or why not some
people are scared of the dark, other fears that sometimes pop up,
way's we can help those we love, etc.

Something that this reminds me of, in my autism group there is a set
of parents who are athiests, very strongly so. Their son with
aspergers really needed a religious experience, he desired
explanations for the beginning of all, and the science wasn't enough.
So they did have to break out of their comfort level, experiment with
several churches, and they found one that they were not too offended
by. They enjoyed the community aspect, and he was able to learn and
experience more. I don't know how you can 'get past it' but I think
it's important to let your children be exposed to alternatives safely
and knowing that you will support them regardless. Right?

Just mindlessly spilling now. Sorry ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Jun 28, 2006, at 2:56 PM, Lesa ODaniel wrote:


>
> Please give me some perspective on how to view this situation. How
> would you
> handle it? I'm feeling like I should provide them for him so that
> he can
> make up his own mind over time. How do you get past the prejudices
> or biases
> you might have about a particular subject for the sake of your child's
> freedom to learn and choose their own paths? Thanks in advance!
>

[email protected]

When you say "religious" I assume you're talking about a certain kind of Christianity. There are other religions besides that one. Plus there are way to explore spirituality that involve no rligion at all.

We handled this like we handled all other learning. We made things available and let the kids choose what to explore. So I had the books on Judaism my mil sent along with my childhood Bible along with The Tao of Pooh and a book of world religions. We talked about it all. We sometimes were able to see different places of worship or participate in other people's ceremonies with them. From my own belief system, I never presented any one way as the "only" way. That's what I choose to pass along to my kids.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Lesa ODaniel" <lesaodaniel@...>
> What to do? What to do? My intent is not to offend anyone here, so I hope I
> get my point across while still being respectful...
>
> My mother is very religious. I don't have a problem with that. I am not
> religious. She has a HUGE problem with that. I used to be religious and I
> don't have a problem with others seeking out comfort in religion and a
> relationship with God. It's just that I don't believe in it anymore and I
> have a hard time feigning belief or interest in the stories in the Bible.
>
> My son is 2 and LOVES LOVES LOVES books of all kinds. My mother consistently
> sends him religious books for children (Veggie Tales, a first Bible, other
> Bible Stories with cartoon-ish drawings, etc.). So far, I have to admit, I
> have been donating them to other kids in local charities or giving them to
> the Mission downtown. I have never shown them to him and since my mother is
> all the way across the country (I'm in Los Angeles and she's in Ohio), she
> is never the wiser...
>
> My newly unschooly self is beginning to feel not so honest and upfront with
> my son about this and I want him to make up his own mind about religion.
> Should he choose to be religious, that's fine with me. It's just difficult
> for me to present these ideas to him because of my own issues with religion.
> I just got home a few minutes ago and found a huge box full of new religious
> children's books. It's like my mom has a video camera here and knows that I
> don't give them to him... she's replenishing the inventory. My son is
> napping now so he doesn't know that I have a bunch of new books. He might
> even like them...
>
> Please give me some perspective on how to view this situation. How would you
> handle it? I'm feeling like I should provide them for him so that he can
> make up his own mind over time. How do you get past the prejudices or biases
> you might have about a particular subject for the sake of your child's
> freedom to learn and choose their own paths? Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
> Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
> 323-541-5515
> http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

6/28/2006 4:22:08 PM
lesaodaniel@... (Lesa ODaniel) wrote"

"My son is napping now so he doesn't know that I have a bunch of new books.
He might even like them."


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I wish my Mom was still alive to send ANYTHING to my kids, anything would be
soooooo wonderfully sweet. Although my mil has everyone at her work believing
that she is this Super Grandma who spends every chance she gets with her
grandkids, them and herself are the only ones she is fooling. She has absolutely no
time for them at all and my kids feelings have been hurt more than once.

You did not offend me here, just wanting you to think about your Mom and your
son at the same time. You are keeping part of his Grandmother from him. Do
you really think he is going to be worse off at 2 yrs. old if he looks at a few
books about God any way? I don't know how your Mom thinks about God, but I
don't think of God as a "religion" at all, religion is not God, "religion" is man
made. (just my point of view<g>) I would just give him whatever his grandmom
sent him and not tell him they are "religious" books one way or another. They
are a gift from Grandma, she loves you SO much! I found that the bigger deal
you make about things, the bigger deal those things are going to be.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"How do you get past the prejudices or biases
you might have about a particular subject for the sake of your child's
freedom to learn and choose their own paths?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You give him that freedom by giving him gifts from someone who loves him. (If
it were something that would be detrimental to my kids in any way then no, of
course I wouldn't give them the gifts.) I have a sil that was Wiccan for
years (she is now Hindu) and she used to (actually still does) get SO upset
whenever anyone would talk about God to or around her and her kids. She was also one
who used to constantly preach that "we need to have more peace and
*tollerance* in this world." Her kids are now a bit older and they seem like they
survived it all ok. Only, they still aren't sure if they are supposed to be Wiccan
or change to Hinduism. I'm guessing they will choose their own paths as they
grow.

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenniffer Baltzell

We handle unsolicited religious gifts by balancing them out with books and
toys from other religions.

When Gramma gives a book on Christ in the spring, we've already checked out
books from the library on the pagan roots of the Easter celebration. When
the baby Jesus stuff comes at Christmas, we're in the midst of exploring
winter holidays like Solstice, Chanukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Diwali,
Saturnalia, etc, etc. We're making dredels and latkes, leaving a feast out
in the trees for the birds and bears and deer, doing yoga, chanting, rubbing
our Buddha, and lighting our candles and lanterns, so one more gifted
nativity is no big deal.

Basically, because we have no religious affiliation, I make sure that no one
religious agenda is over-represented and if it is, I make sure to put things
up on the top shelf of the guest room closet to bring down later if I'm
running low on Christian stuff or if the boys ask questions or show a sudden
interest. I try to make religious exploration fun and interesting for them,
just as I would for any other area of interest. More than anything else, I
don't want my own biases to hinder my kids, in religious exploration, and in
all of our pursuits. I'm not saying I'm 100% successful, mind you, but it's
my goal. If I put aside my own prejudices, I find that I can treat
religious gifts like any other gift, and I can be gracious to the people who
care about our family, however ungracious they may sometimes be.

--
Jenniffer in Harpers Ferry
http://octopigarden.blogspot.com
Listen, are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life? ~Mary Oliver


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bapretzel_2

Hi, Lesa. I plan to treat the topic the same as any other. I
recall being very interested in religion as a child (and mysticism),
from a very early age of 5 or 6 so I want to be ready (and open) for
my daughter if she takes the same interest. I just want to have
books about all kinds of religions & philosophy around my house -
both children's books & adult books (I liked adult books as a sm
child), so she will have the option to read them when she wants.

Last year, a couple mos before my daughter's 3rd bday, I picked up
two books by the same author, "What is Religion" & "What is Death",
both of which she occasionally likes to have read to her. They are
not story books, just facts, and a bit wordy for a 2-3 yr old, but
she has asked to read them 4 or 5 times since we first boughht them
so I know she doesn't hate them, lol. They address the perspectives
of about 5 commonly known religions and athiesm. I also have books
about Jesus & some holiday books on Hannakuh(sp?), and plan to
gather more story type books on other religions or philosophy's.

I think I may need to introduce myself. I've been on various boards
a long time, but haven't been active the last year or so due to
personal issues. Since the new digests are so kick ass, I've
decided to dig back into reading at least one new group, and this
seemed a great starting point.

My daughter is 3 1/2, we plan to unschool. I hang out at parkdays
with other unschoolers, chat/stay active on at least one other
unschool board, and try to read up anywhere I can in my free time.
While deep down I feel confident that unschooling is right & best, I
seem to have great resistance, externally, in many of my actions. I
have faith it will all sink in with time, practice, and work.

Cheryl
(mamma to Natalie, 10/02)


I have always been interested in religions, sprituality, and since I
started out as a christian, I embrace it's part in my journey. With
that in mind, I have been purchasing books that cover several
religions, or spirituality, in general. My daughter is 3 1/2. Last
year, a couple mos before her 3rd bday, I ordered 2 books by the
same authors, "what is God" & "What is Death". I thought they
sounded too advanced but wanted them around just in case, or for
future use. Our order was split up, and when the God book arrived
I looked it over & it definitely seemed too advanced for her.
Hwoever, she saw it in the box & knew it was a "present", lol, and
wanted to read it. So we gave it a test drive. I was surprised she
liked it, the topic seemed a bit too *boring*, and there was not a
story line, and it was a wordier book than the others we were
reading. But it stuck, to a small degree. She asked to read it two
or three more times in the next couple weeks. Then it got lost in
the sea of books, as often happens with her books if they're not a
big favorite. Since then, she has still come across it & asked to
read it, and she remembers the books names (bible, torah, etc), and
Budah, mohammed, Jesus, it's funny to me.



--- In [email protected], "Lesa ODaniel"
<lesaodaniel@...> wrote:
>
> What to do? What to do? My intent is not to offend anyone here, so
I hope I
> get my point across while still being respectful...
>
> My mother is very religious. I don't have a problem with that. I
am not
> religious. She has a HUGE problem with that. I used to be
religious and I
> don't have a problem with others seeking out comfort in religion
and a
> relationship with God. It's just that I don't believe in it
anymore and I
> have a hard time feigning belief or interest in the stories in the
Bible.
>
> My son is 2 and LOVES LOVES LOVES books of all kinds. My mother
consistently
> sends him religious books for children (Veggie Tales, a first
Bible, other
> Bible Stories with cartoon-ish drawings, etc.). So far, I have to
admit, I
> have been donating them to other kids in local charities or giving
them to
> the Mission downtown. I have never shown them to him and since my
mother is
> all the way across the country (I'm in Los Angeles and she's in
Ohio), she
> is never the wiser...
>
> My newly unschooly self is beginning to feel not so honest and
upfront with
> my son about this and I want him to make up his own mind about
religion.
> Should he choose to be religious, that's fine with me. It's just
difficult
> for me to present these ideas to him because of my own issues with
religion.
> I just got home a few minutes ago and found a huge box full of new
religious
> children's books. It's like my mom has a video camera here and
knows that I
> don't give them to him... she's replenishing the inventory. My son
is
> napping now so he doesn't know that I have a bunch of new books.
He might
> even like them...
>
> Please give me some perspective on how to view this situation. How
would you
> handle it? I'm feeling like I should provide them for him so that
he can
> make up his own mind over time. How do you get past the prejudices
or biases
> you might have about a particular subject for the sake of your
child's
> freedom to learn and choose their own paths? Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
> Instructor, Bradley Method? of Natural Childbirth
> 323-541-5515
> http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>

[email protected]

I'd keep the Bible Stories books and read them to him. It's cultural history.
It doesn't have to be "religion" no matter what your mother's intent was in
sending them.

There are hundreds of thousands of literary references (and jokes!) that
people can't understand if they haven't ever heard the story of Adam and Eve, or
Moses in the bulrushes, or Noah, or...

The best way to deal with the religion issue, in my opinion, is to talk about
ALL of them. Read creation stories from all over the world. Talk about what
people believe in different religions. Talk about what they DO, the rituals and
ceremonies. Exploring it all is better (and more fun) than trying to ignore
it.

Deborah in IL

Lesa ODaniel

Thanks, everyone, as always. I think I was just overwhelmed with the
ton of books that came spilling out all over the floor and my newly
unschooled brain was beginning to tell me that I should open my mind
a bit more and not restrict these items.

I had forgotten that before I had children my husband and I
discussed how we would handle discussing holidays and it always
seemed important and natural to include all the ways holidays are
celebrated around the world. Thanks for helping me see the
connection to incorporating different religions into the picture
when this issue arises.

This group is such a valuable resource. I'm happy to be able to
reach out and get responses so quickly.

-Lesa

--- In [email protected], DACunefare@... wrote:
>
It's cultural history.
It doesn't have to be "religion" no matter what your mother's intent
was in sending them.
>
> The best way to deal with the religion issue, in my opinion, is to
talk about
> ALL of them. Read creation stories from all over the world. Talk
about what
> people believe in different religions. Talk about what they DO,
the rituals and
> ceremonies. Exploring it all is better (and more fun) than trying
to ignore
> it.
>
> Deborah in IL
>

marsaili

Lesa,

I became a pagan 5 years ago--previously I was a Catholic. We were never
very religious but the kids know the basic Bible stories and such. Since I
changed my beliefs, the older kids at first said that they are still
Catholic, and that was fine with me. Then they said they just believe in
God, and that was also fine with me. Now they are all saying they are
atheists---which I think is pretty normal for many 16-18 year olds at some
point. My younger children ask me questions about God and Jesus (especially
after watching Jesus Christ Superstar) and I answer them truthfully with the
knowledge that I have learned. I tell them that many people believe in God
and believe that Jesus is the son of God--I just don't follow that faith. I
will answer any questions they have about ANY faith, if I don't know it then
I will find out for them or help them to find out the answers themselves. We
have Bibles in the house and other Christian books and they are free to read
them and learn. All I have said to them is find whatever is right for them,
they don't have to study Druidism because I do---or Catholicism because
that's what I used to be--they don't have to be any religion. I did ask
that someday when they are interested in a higher power, find out about
different ones and choose what is right for them. Of course, my ex inlaws
totally contradict this because in their eyes there are no other Gods or
religions other than the Catholic Church but I just tell the kids that is
their belief and it is ok for them to have that belief--the kids are free to
believe in whatever they choose. As far as your son goes, he is only 2 and
is happy to have books to look at and be read to---don't worry about the
content, just read the story. Most "religious" childrens stories are told
to teach a moral lesson anyway and basically hold the same moralities that
anyone from any religion can agree with. I think that even if you disagree
with the religious aspect, it is still a part of your mother and if you are
involved in a relationship with her, he is going to know that she is
religious and believes a certain way no matter what you keep from him.
There is nothing wrong (IMHO)with children learning about different
religions.

I hope this helps!

Leslie:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesa ODaniel
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Mother...Religion...

What to do? What to do? My intent is not to offend anyone here, so I hope I
get my point across while still being respectful...