looking for a book name
Ren Allen
"The never got the point that it was the "reward" for a Dr. visit that
I was trying to avoid......"
Yes, but withholding the lolli just to teach YOUR view, is just as
arbitrary. Kids aren't going to be ruined by having the Dr. or dentist
give them a treat, or anyone else for that matter.
When we've run into rewards like that, we just kindly thank the person
and later I might mention "well, you can get a lolli anytime, you
don't have to do x,y,z" (when my kids were little's anyway).
The loudest message a child hears are from the parents, especially in
the unschooling situation. We can be their buffer without trying to
create arbitrary "lessons" about rewards and punishments too.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
I was trying to avoid......"
Yes, but withholding the lolli just to teach YOUR view, is just as
arbitrary. Kids aren't going to be ruined by having the Dr. or dentist
give them a treat, or anyone else for that matter.
When we've run into rewards like that, we just kindly thank the person
and later I might mention "well, you can get a lolli anytime, you
don't have to do x,y,z" (when my kids were little's anyway).
The loudest message a child hears are from the parents, especially in
the unschooling situation. We can be their buffer without trying to
create arbitrary "lessons" about rewards and punishments too.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
Excellent point Ren! We did in fact go through the lollipop offer each time and he looked forward to it each visit. Initially I was so busy trying to be sure I never used food as a reward that I was hypersensitive to that kind of thing early on. Jacob never looked at it as a "reward". Just a nice option while he was there.
One of the best tips I ever received in my life is "don't get so busy being right that you can't hear the other person". I have certainly had days like that but am a little more better. Still need reminding.
Thanks - Sherlyn
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Thu Jun 08 14:28:50 CDT 2006
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] looking for a book name
"The never got the point that it was the "reward" for a Dr. visit that
I was trying to avoid......"
anyway).
One of the best tips I ever received in my life is "don't get so busy being right that you can't hear the other person". I have certainly had days like that but am a little more better. Still need reminding.
Thanks - Sherlyn
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Thu Jun 08 14:28:50 CDT 2006
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] looking for a book name
"The never got the point that it was the "reward" for a Dr. visit that
I was trying to avoid......"
anyway).
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
ago. The teacher told the kids that if they memorized all the
requisite verses, she'd reward them with a trip to Taco Bell. For
the first week or two, Joshua was very into it. So we reviewed with
him when he wanted to and all like that. Then he only wanted to
review right before class, so that's what we did - we'd get there
early so he could review for a couple minutes before the teacher
arrived so he could get his sticker for the day. Then we were gone
for a week (he wasn't considered responsible for the week we
missed). When we got back, we were confused over which one to work
on. He did the wrong one as it turned out. And got upset. And his
teacher was gracious and told him that he could practice it and tell
it to her later in the day or call midweek and tell her or whatever -
she really did, within the schoolish mindset (she had also been a
public/private school teacher), try to give him lots of
opportunities. But he was really upset still. So, when we got home,
we sat and talked about it. I asked what we should do. Did he want
me to write it on our kitchen chalkboard each week so he could see
it all the time? Did he want to do review games? (like jumping from
throw pillow to throw pillow saying the words with each jump) But he
was just upset. So I asked him how big an important thing was this
to him, since we usually go out to lunch on Sundays anyhow and we
could easily stop at Taco Bell one day instead of anyplace else. At
that, he brightened up and said "Yeah. We go to places I like a lot
better than Taco Bell." Problem solved - he did what he wanted to
(sometimes he memorized the verse, sometimes not) and we continued
eating at various places. And in the end the teacher took the whole
class to Taco Bell.
Now I'm teaching that same class and I got some really confused
looks when I didn't hand out stickers for showing up, I didn't use a
Q-U-I-E-T sign to keep track of misbehaviors (and track the level of
punitive outcomes), I didn't even do any worksheets (I just handed
them out as the kids were leaving so they'd have something to take
home). I just told the kids that I had planned a bunch of fun things
and we could cooperate and get lots done or we could keep stopping
so everyone could hear the story/instructions/whatever, which would
use up the time and we might not get the last thing(s) done. They
got it. Even the kid who I know, from previous experience and
reports from Joshua, can be a handful was cooperative - exuberant
sometimes, which is *great* as far as I'm concerned but he wasn't
overboard.
--Deb
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>>LOL that reminded me of a Bible class Joshua was in a couple years
> When we've run into rewards like that, we just kindly thank the
>person
> and later I might mention "well, you can get a lolli anytime, you
> don't have to do x,y,z" (when my kids were little's anyway).
ago. The teacher told the kids that if they memorized all the
requisite verses, she'd reward them with a trip to Taco Bell. For
the first week or two, Joshua was very into it. So we reviewed with
him when he wanted to and all like that. Then he only wanted to
review right before class, so that's what we did - we'd get there
early so he could review for a couple minutes before the teacher
arrived so he could get his sticker for the day. Then we were gone
for a week (he wasn't considered responsible for the week we
missed). When we got back, we were confused over which one to work
on. He did the wrong one as it turned out. And got upset. And his
teacher was gracious and told him that he could practice it and tell
it to her later in the day or call midweek and tell her or whatever -
she really did, within the schoolish mindset (she had also been a
public/private school teacher), try to give him lots of
opportunities. But he was really upset still. So, when we got home,
we sat and talked about it. I asked what we should do. Did he want
me to write it on our kitchen chalkboard each week so he could see
it all the time? Did he want to do review games? (like jumping from
throw pillow to throw pillow saying the words with each jump) But he
was just upset. So I asked him how big an important thing was this
to him, since we usually go out to lunch on Sundays anyhow and we
could easily stop at Taco Bell one day instead of anyplace else. At
that, he brightened up and said "Yeah. We go to places I like a lot
better than Taco Bell." Problem solved - he did what he wanted to
(sometimes he memorized the verse, sometimes not) and we continued
eating at various places. And in the end the teacher took the whole
class to Taco Bell.
Now I'm teaching that same class and I got some really confused
looks when I didn't hand out stickers for showing up, I didn't use a
Q-U-I-E-T sign to keep track of misbehaviors (and track the level of
punitive outcomes), I didn't even do any worksheets (I just handed
them out as the kids were leaving so they'd have something to take
home). I just told the kids that I had planned a bunch of fun things
and we could cooperate and get lots done or we could keep stopping
so everyone could hear the story/instructions/whatever, which would
use up the time and we might not get the last thing(s) done. They
got it. Even the kid who I know, from previous experience and
reports from Joshua, can be a handful was cooperative - exuberant
sometimes, which is *great* as far as I'm concerned but he wasn't
overboard.
--Deb
Vijay Owens
It's funny isn't it, how the unschooling philosophy spills out into the
world and isn't just contained within the family. When I teach my sling
workshops I always tailor my approach to the audience. I could just
start "at the beginning" and work my way through some long schpiel
about the benefits of wearing your baby in a sling, the different types
of slings, etc. and I have a feeling a lot of eyes would glaze over,
lol.
So I just ask, "Why are you here? What did you hope to learn about
slings today?" And sometimes the answer is surprising. People bring
slings and other carriers that I've never seen before (and I thought
I'd seen them all!) and we figure out together how they work. Other
times people are actually interested in learning *most* of what I would
cover in my overview, but we do it piecemeal, with them asking a
question and me answering, and then they ask another question until
they are satisfied.
Everyone is so different. Some just want to see me do the different
carries with my baby. Some want to try them with their own babies. Some
just want to see the different types of slings, grab a handout and be
on their way. Forcing everyone to submit to the same cookie cutter
approach doesn't fit with my philosophy.
Otherwise I feel like it's set up like "I am the expert and I'm going
to drone on and on until you wish you never showed up." That's just not
me. <g> Professors in college used to get so angry when students would
fall asleep or otherwise tune out. If I were the professor I would be
asking myself, "What am I doing wrong that my students are so bored as
to fall asleep?"
-Vijay
world and isn't just contained within the family. When I teach my sling
workshops I always tailor my approach to the audience. I could just
start "at the beginning" and work my way through some long schpiel
about the benefits of wearing your baby in a sling, the different types
of slings, etc. and I have a feeling a lot of eyes would glaze over,
lol.
So I just ask, "Why are you here? What did you hope to learn about
slings today?" And sometimes the answer is surprising. People bring
slings and other carriers that I've never seen before (and I thought
I'd seen them all!) and we figure out together how they work. Other
times people are actually interested in learning *most* of what I would
cover in my overview, but we do it piecemeal, with them asking a
question and me answering, and then they ask another question until
they are satisfied.
Everyone is so different. Some just want to see me do the different
carries with my baby. Some want to try them with their own babies. Some
just want to see the different types of slings, grab a handout and be
on their way. Forcing everyone to submit to the same cookie cutter
approach doesn't fit with my philosophy.
Otherwise I feel like it's set up like "I am the expert and I'm going
to drone on and on until you wish you never showed up." That's just not
me. <g> Professors in college used to get so angry when students would
fall asleep or otherwise tune out. If I were the professor I would be
asking myself, "What am I doing wrong that my students are so bored as
to fall asleep?"
-Vijay
On Jun 8, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Deb wrote:
> Now I'm teaching that same class and I got some really confused
> looks when I didn't hand out stickers for showing up, I didn't use a
> Q-U-I-E-T sign to keep track of misbehaviors (and track the level of
> punitive outcomes), I didn't even do any worksheets (I just handed
> them out as the kids were leaving so they'd have something to take
> home). I just told the kids that I had planned a bunch of fun things
> and we could cooperate and get lots done or we could keep stopping
> so everyone could hear the story/instructions/whatever, which would
> use up the time and we might not get the last thing(s) done. They
> got it. Even the kid who I know, from previous experience and
> reports from Joshua, can be a handful was cooperative - exuberant
> sometimes, which is *great* as far as I'm concerned but he wasn't
> overboard.
>
> --Deb
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