Re: Talk with Mom (long)
Peggy
Betsy wrote:
depth of understanding. Less critical thinking. Canned answers. Canned
responses. Canned thinking. Now, who benefits from that? Those in power who
want an easily manipulated population.
(rant)
And this is admittedly a side rant but, another thing to think about is the
lack of the vigorous working class who rallied to change working conditions in
the early part of the 20th century. What happened to them? Why do people no
longer identify proudly as working class even if they obviously are? Why do
working class college students at state schools attending on economic
subsidies self identify as middle class? It seems a minor thing, after all,
what class doesn't want to move on to the next level of economic independence,
but, to me it is tied to the need of our economy for consumers. What kind of
freedom is it to be in thralldom for payments on a SUV? And, being in debt up
to your eyebrows keeps people down and quiet.
(/rant}
Peggy
> I think I lost track of my point in all the details. But, I believe ifThis is exactly what I think will happen. Less enjoyment of basic skills. Less
> schooly learning is expanded into the preschool years and into
> additional homework at night and summer school attendance, then kids
> will actually learn LESS. A lot of the "progress" that kids show in
> "language arts" during the K12 years is actually learned outside of
> school. If enough involved parents take their kids out of school, it
> may be revealed that school learning methods are terribly ineffective.
> (Pssst! The emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Pass it on.)
>
> Betsy
depth of understanding. Less critical thinking. Canned answers. Canned
responses. Canned thinking. Now, who benefits from that? Those in power who
want an easily manipulated population.
(rant)
And this is admittedly a side rant but, another thing to think about is the
lack of the vigorous working class who rallied to change working conditions in
the early part of the 20th century. What happened to them? Why do people no
longer identify proudly as working class even if they obviously are? Why do
working class college students at state schools attending on economic
subsidies self identify as middle class? It seems a minor thing, after all,
what class doesn't want to move on to the next level of economic independence,
but, to me it is tied to the need of our economy for consumers. What kind of
freedom is it to be in thralldom for payments on a SUV? And, being in debt up
to your eyebrows keeps people down and quiet.
(/rant}
Peggy
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/18/02 10:36:20 AM, peggy@... writes:
<< Why do people no
longer identify proudly as working class even if they obviously are? Why do
working class college students at state schools attending on economic
subsidies self identify as middle class? >>
Because in the U.S. we really have no "leisure class" or "upper class."
And upper middle class is "wealthy but working hard," so "lower middle class"
is working hard but not wealthy. I guess our leisure class is "money
earning interest sufficient to live on," but I have friends living in a tract
house smaller than ours whose kids are in that category, but they can't live
big, they can just be lower middle class without working.
Our terminology always says things we as a culture (under the American
mythos) don't want to really say. And with Brit-English culture and
terminology as a ghostly base, it makes it even worse.
-=-What kind of
freedom is it to be in thralldom for payments on a SUV? And, being in debt up
to your eyebrows keeps people down and quiet.
-=-
Well they had the freedom to choose not to buy it.
(Since I don't know the direction you wanted that rant to take, I'm just
brainstorming without direction.)
Sandra
<< Why do people no
longer identify proudly as working class even if they obviously are? Why do
working class college students at state schools attending on economic
subsidies self identify as middle class? >>
Because in the U.S. we really have no "leisure class" or "upper class."
And upper middle class is "wealthy but working hard," so "lower middle class"
is working hard but not wealthy. I guess our leisure class is "money
earning interest sufficient to live on," but I have friends living in a tract
house smaller than ours whose kids are in that category, but they can't live
big, they can just be lower middle class without working.
Our terminology always says things we as a culture (under the American
mythos) don't want to really say. And with Brit-English culture and
terminology as a ghostly base, it makes it even worse.
-=-What kind of
freedom is it to be in thralldom for payments on a SUV? And, being in debt up
to your eyebrows keeps people down and quiet.
-=-
Well they had the freedom to choose not to buy it.
(Since I don't know the direction you wanted that rant to take, I'm just
brainstorming without direction.)
Sandra
Peggy
Sandra Dodd wrote:
see what isn't being said. Why was my father (born in 1907) happy to identify
as working class and now we seem to have some nebulous sort-of-middle class
with all sorts of clear distinctions based on homes, cars, and salaries, but
no feeling of solidarity with those who are LIKE us.
few big urban centers and college towns where the car one drives isn't very
important, and one can use public transportation, but in many places, what
kind of a job you get or whether you are hired at all is dependent on your
vehicle and how it *looks*. Now, I've worked in factories, in kitchens, in
schools, in corporations. A few of the jobs used education as a means of
sorting out the unworthy but for many of those places one's transportation
said a lot about who you were and what you could do/be for the company. It
isn't any wonder to me that people who live in cheap little rentals will drive
an expensive car. That car represents how people in the outside world will see
them... I guess my theory is that it keeps people busy. Busy working to pay
off their debts, and if they don't succeed then it keeps them convinced that
they are at fault. At any rate it helps to keep them un-empowered.
thinking. Most of our sharing seems to be long distant and not intimate and
that is so different from much of the world or even our own history. Is there
anything lonelier or more isolated than the typical suburban dweller down on
their luck?
Sorry for rambling,
Peggy
>Interesting...
>
> In a message dated 9/18/02 10:36:20 AM, peggy@... writes:
>
> << Why do people no
> longer identify proudly as working class even if they obviously are? Why do
> working class college students at state schools attending on economic
> subsidies self identify as middle class? >>
>
> Because in the U.S. we really have no "leisure class" or "upper class."
> And upper middle class is "wealthy but working hard," so "lower middle class"
> is working hard but not wealthy. I guess our leisure class is "money
> earning interest sufficient to live on," but I have friends living in a tract
> house smaller than ours whose kids are in that category, but they can't live
> big, they can just be lower middle class without working.
>That was my point. And I find it interesting to look thorugh the curtain and
> Our terminology always says things we as a culture (under the American
> mythos) don't want to really say. And with Brit-English culture and
> terminology as a ghostly base, it makes it even worse.
see what isn't being said. Why was my father (born in 1907) happy to identify
as working class and now we seem to have some nebulous sort-of-middle class
with all sorts of clear distinctions based on homes, cars, and salaries, but
no feeling of solidarity with those who are LIKE us.
>Is this really true? When what one drives says so much? I imagine there are a
> -=-What kind of
> freedom is it to be in thralldom for payments on a SUV? And, being in debt up
> to your eyebrows keeps people down and quiet.
> -=-
>
> Well they had the freedom to choose not to buy it.
few big urban centers and college towns where the car one drives isn't very
important, and one can use public transportation, but in many places, what
kind of a job you get or whether you are hired at all is dependent on your
vehicle and how it *looks*. Now, I've worked in factories, in kitchens, in
schools, in corporations. A few of the jobs used education as a means of
sorting out the unworthy but for many of those places one's transportation
said a lot about who you were and what you could do/be for the company. It
isn't any wonder to me that people who live in cheap little rentals will drive
an expensive car. That car represents how people in the outside world will see
them... I guess my theory is that it keeps people busy. Busy working to pay
off their debts, and if they don't succeed then it keeps them convinced that
they are at fault. At any rate it helps to keep them un-empowered.
>I'm not sure myself. There just seems to be a real fundamental change in
> (Since I don't know the direction you wanted that rant to take, I'm just
> brainstorming without direction.)
thinking. Most of our sharing seems to be long distant and not intimate and
that is so different from much of the world or even our own history. Is there
anything lonelier or more isolated than the typical suburban dweller down on
their luck?
Sorry for rambling,
Peggy
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/22/02 10:29:11 PM, peggy@... writes:
<< I guess my theory is that it keeps people busy. Busy working to pay
off their debts, and if they don't succeed then it keeps them convinced that
they are at fault. At any rate it helps to keep them un-empowered.
tribe, desert nomads, ancient Athens, Chinese peasants in the 19th century...
) what is the opposite of being busy and at risk of failure being the fault
of each person?
What religion or philosophy or culture gives people fault-free lives of
leisure?
I think it's just part of being human.
Sandra
<< I guess my theory is that it keeps people busy. Busy working to pay
off their debts, and if they don't succeed then it keeps them convinced that
they are at fault. At any rate it helps to keep them un-empowered.
>>In a culture (picture any ten or fiften really varied cultures--rainforest
tribe, desert nomads, ancient Athens, Chinese peasants in the 19th century...
) what is the opposite of being busy and at risk of failure being the fault
of each person?
What religion or philosophy or culture gives people fault-free lives of
leisure?
I think it's just part of being human.
Sandra