"accelerated unschooling"
[email protected]
Any ideas as to a good response I can send?
Subj: Accelerated Unschooling
Date: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:57:49 AM
From: kaymarchant@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I spoke to an acquaintance, Katherine Baptista, who mentioned you were
interested in information about Accelerated Unschooling. She provided your
e-mail address. She mentioned that you were a Traditional Unschooler.
Like Traditional Unschooling, Accelerated Unschooling understands that
children are best able to determine their interests and talents and gifts.
People are naturally drawn to activities and topics that fit their
personalities
Accelerated Unschooling addresses concerns that many parents have about
Traditional Unschooling, particularly motivation. Many children and adults
have very strong gifts and interests that they'd like to pursue, but limited
resources, and, even more, procrastination or laziness keep them from
pursuing them. Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece. This is especially important for children who are
Gifted or Talented, but who often lack motivation. Accelerated Unschooling
allows them to reach their potentials.
My personal experience with Accelerated Unschooling has been particularly
dramatic. I have four children, three boys and a girl, from age 7 to 14. My
three oldest children are highly gifted, and since we have begun Accelerated
Unschooling, they have excelled in all of their areas of giftedness (Math
and science, instrumental music, art, and writing). My youngest adopted son,
who is not Gifted, has also benefited, as he is exposed to many different
activities, and wastes fs exposed to
many things, become a genuine Accelerated Unschooler. Presently he expresses
interest in very little, so we are remedially exposing him to many areas.)
Accelerated Unschooling is becoming more popular. I attended a workshop with
its inventors, Conrad and Lydia Menapolit, in California, and it has changed
our lives. We are hoping that Conrad and Lydia will be doing more workshops,
but they are presently in Austria writing a book about Accelerated
Unschooling.
Please let me know if I can tell you more.
Kay Beaufort Marchant
Subj: Accelerated Unschooling
Date: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:57:49 AM
From: kaymarchant@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I spoke to an acquaintance, Katherine Baptista, who mentioned you were
interested in information about Accelerated Unschooling. She provided your
e-mail address. She mentioned that you were a Traditional Unschooler.
Like Traditional Unschooling, Accelerated Unschooling understands that
children are best able to determine their interests and talents and gifts.
People are naturally drawn to activities and topics that fit their
personalities
Accelerated Unschooling addresses concerns that many parents have about
Traditional Unschooling, particularly motivation. Many children and adults
have very strong gifts and interests that they'd like to pursue, but limited
resources, and, even more, procrastination or laziness keep them from
pursuing them. Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece. This is especially important for children who are
Gifted or Talented, but who often lack motivation. Accelerated Unschooling
allows them to reach their potentials.
My personal experience with Accelerated Unschooling has been particularly
dramatic. I have four children, three boys and a girl, from age 7 to 14. My
three oldest children are highly gifted, and since we have begun Accelerated
Unschooling, they have excelled in all of their areas of giftedness (Math
and science, instrumental music, art, and writing). My youngest adopted son,
who is not Gifted, has also benefited, as he is exposed to many different
activities, and wastes fs exposed to
many things, become a genuine Accelerated Unschooler. Presently he expresses
interest in very little, so we are remedially exposing him to many areas.)
Accelerated Unschooling is becoming more popular. I attended a workshop with
its inventors, Conrad and Lydia Menapolit, in California, and it has changed
our lives. We are hoping that Conrad and Lydia will be doing more workshops,
but they are presently in Austria writing a book about Accelerated
Unschooling.
Please let me know if I can tell you more.
Kay Beaufort Marchant
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/02 2:59:58 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece. >>
This still doesn't really talk about what AU is (other than obviously NOT
unschooling!).
What does "take control" mean in this situation? What do their days look
like? I don't see how you could respond without more info.
Paula
<< Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece. >>
This still doesn't really talk about what AU is (other than obviously NOT
unschooling!).
What does "take control" mean in this situation? What do their days look
like? I don't see how you could respond without more info.
Paula
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/02 2:26:24 PM, sjogy@... writes:
<< This still doesn't really talk about what AU is (other than obviously NOT
unschooling!).
What does "take control" mean in this situation? What >>
It sounds like parent-led natural learning to me! <g>
Sandra
<< This still doesn't really talk about what AU is (other than obviously NOT
unschooling!).
What does "take control" mean in this situation? What >>
It sounds like parent-led natural learning to me! <g>
Sandra
Pam Hartley
"Accelerated Unschooling addresses concerns that many parents have about
Traditional Unschooling, particularly motivation. Many children and adults
have very strong gifts and interests that they'd like to pursue, but limited
resources, and, even more, procrastination or laziness keep them from
pursuing them."
Oh. My. God.
If we didn't have an electric oven, I'd go stick my head in it. No, I'd go
stick HER head in it.
A response? Where would I START??!!
How about: it's not procrastination and laziness (deleted profanities) it's
that it ISN'T A COMPELLING INTEREST AT THE TIME and it's NOT FREAKING
UNSCHOOLING IF YOU'RE STANDING THERE WITH A WHIP AND A CHAIR!
Workshops. Somebody's giving WORKSHOPS on this.
"Presently he expresses
interest in very little, so we are remedially exposing him to many areas."
John Holt better come back from the grave NOW.
Pam "we're through the looking glass now, people" Hartley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Traditional Unschooling, particularly motivation. Many children and adults
have very strong gifts and interests that they'd like to pursue, but limited
resources, and, even more, procrastination or laziness keep them from
pursuing them."
Oh. My. God.
If we didn't have an electric oven, I'd go stick my head in it. No, I'd go
stick HER head in it.
A response? Where would I START??!!
How about: it's not procrastination and laziness (deleted profanities) it's
that it ISN'T A COMPELLING INTEREST AT THE TIME and it's NOT FREAKING
UNSCHOOLING IF YOU'RE STANDING THERE WITH A WHIP AND A CHAIR!
Workshops. Somebody's giving WORKSHOPS on this.
"Presently he expresses
interest in very little, so we are remedially exposing him to many areas."
John Holt better come back from the grave NOW.
Pam "we're through the looking glass now, people" Hartley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
That makes me sad and nauseous and irritated and angry that they are even
thinking it is even CLOSE to anything remotely like unschooling.
She doesn't get it.
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
thinking it is even CLOSE to anything remotely like unschooling.
She doesn't get it.
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Sharon Rudd
so we are remedially
Goodness, how insulting. Like the Head Start program,
for culterally "deprived" kids.
I suppose strewing is not organized enough, or maybe
it doesn't enhance the areas identified as being in
need of forcing, I mean accelerating.
How about that term "Traditional Unschooling"? :-) How
long does something exist before it is traditional?
What makes anything be traditioanal? What is a
tradition, exactly? Traditional Unschooling.
Interesting perspective. Although if it is modified
(acceralted) unschooling, it isn't any kind of
unschooling anymore. It is something else, such as a
personalized curriculum, with an incorrect title.
Wonder if they have a TV problem >:-) Meeow
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
> exposing him to many areas.......................................................
Goodness, how insulting. Like the Head Start program,
for culterally "deprived" kids.
I suppose strewing is not organized enough, or maybe
it doesn't enhance the areas identified as being in
need of forcing, I mean accelerating.
How about that term "Traditional Unschooling"? :-) How
long does something exist before it is traditional?
What makes anything be traditioanal? What is a
tradition, exactly? Traditional Unschooling.
Interesting perspective. Although if it is modified
(acceralted) unschooling, it isn't any kind of
unschooling anymore. It is something else, such as a
personalized curriculum, with an incorrect title.
Wonder if they have a TV problem >:-) Meeow
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
[email protected]
I also dislike it when people continue to call a child "my adopted child"
Once you adopt him/her, s/he IS your child. period.
Why spend your whole life pointing something out that means nothing?
(Unless it does and that's even more pathetic.)
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Once you adopt him/her, s/he IS your child. period.
Why spend your whole life pointing something out that means nothing?
(Unless it does and that's even more pathetic.)
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Shyrley
On 22 Aug 02, at 15:58, SandraDodd@... wrote:
How can a parent 'take control' of the motivation. Surely its an
intrinsic thing. I feel a bit sorry for the child labelled 'not Gifted'.
Grrrrrrr
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> Any ideas as to a good response I can send?Oh plenty but non of them would be polite!!
>
>
>
How can a parent 'take control' of the motivation. Surely its an
intrinsic thing. I feel a bit sorry for the child labelled 'not Gifted'.
Grrrrrrr
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
Yeah. What Pam said.
Someone needs to accelerate her (maybe with a foot to the posterior) in
regards to what a really horrid thing it is to think of one's own
children as lazy procrastinators.
***" My youngest adopted son,
who is not Gifted, ..."***
WELL this is just about as horrible as I can imagine. Is he not "Gifted"
because he's not really hers or is he not really hers because he's not
"Gifted?"
What a moron.
Oh, please have her tell you more. Like how it can be natural learning
if it's being shoved down your throat. And how she can call her pushy
busy body self an unschooler and how she can sleep at night after talking
about her kids like that.
Deb L, accelerating off to barf.
Someone needs to accelerate her (maybe with a foot to the posterior) in
regards to what a really horrid thing it is to think of one's own
children as lazy procrastinators.
***" My youngest adopted son,
who is not Gifted, ..."***
WELL this is just about as horrible as I can imagine. Is he not "Gifted"
because he's not really hers or is he not really hers because he's not
"Gifted?"
What a moron.
Oh, please have her tell you more. Like how it can be natural learning
if it's being shoved down your throat. And how she can call her pushy
busy body self an unschooler and how she can sleep at night after talking
about her kids like that.
Deb L, accelerating off to barf.
[email protected]
Ok, I'm ready to act like a grown up for a minute.
***Like Traditional Unschooling, Accelerated Unschooling understands that
children are best able to determine their interests and talents and
gifts. ***
Would it be such a stretch then, to believe children are also best able
to decide which projects they will pursue at which pace, and which
"gifts" and "talents" they would like to develop? If she believes they
are able to determine for themselves what is interesting, why then
doesn't she believe they will explore it for themselves when they're
ready?
***Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece.***
Why is motivation not something that can be learned naturally as well?
If people aren't pursuing a thing, does it have to be laziness or
procrastination? Couldn't it just be lack of interest? And if children
are best able to determine their own interests, why would a parent need
to "take control of the motivation piece"?
Was she an unschooling parent before the accelerated thing? Was she
unaware of her ability to HELP her kids get to music lessons if THEY
wanted to go? Did she not know she could go get movies for them, buy
them books, games, puzzles, toys, etc, if they WANTED them? Did she
not know children who live with interesting people who do interesting
things will be interested in doing everything??? Where was she before
she accelerated? At a dead stop, I'm thinking. Didn't she know
somewhere in between is "at their own pace?" And if they are gifted and
talented why wouldn't that be good enough.
The rest of her letter gets more horrible the more I read it. Labeling,
defining and categorizing a seven year old is just so deeply wrong, and
so sickening for a parent to do that I can't find words. This mother
should see a psychologist right now (accelerate! Don't procrastinate!)
to find out exactly why she needs to put these labels, limits and
expectations on her children and to find out before it's too late how to
undo the damage she has already inflicted on poor little seven year old,
ungifted, adopted Nate, and the others. God, I'm still feeling sick
over that one.
Deb L, who's sad attempt at being grown up is over...neener.
***Like Traditional Unschooling, Accelerated Unschooling understands that
children are best able to determine their interests and talents and
gifts. ***
Would it be such a stretch then, to believe children are also best able
to decide which projects they will pursue at which pace, and which
"gifts" and "talents" they would like to develop? If she believes they
are able to determine for themselves what is interesting, why then
doesn't she believe they will explore it for themselves when they're
ready?
***Accelerated Unschooling allows the parent to take control of
the motivation piece.***
Why is motivation not something that can be learned naturally as well?
If people aren't pursuing a thing, does it have to be laziness or
procrastination? Couldn't it just be lack of interest? And if children
are best able to determine their own interests, why would a parent need
to "take control of the motivation piece"?
Was she an unschooling parent before the accelerated thing? Was she
unaware of her ability to HELP her kids get to music lessons if THEY
wanted to go? Did she not know she could go get movies for them, buy
them books, games, puzzles, toys, etc, if they WANTED them? Did she
not know children who live with interesting people who do interesting
things will be interested in doing everything??? Where was she before
she accelerated? At a dead stop, I'm thinking. Didn't she know
somewhere in between is "at their own pace?" And if they are gifted and
talented why wouldn't that be good enough.
The rest of her letter gets more horrible the more I read it. Labeling,
defining and categorizing a seven year old is just so deeply wrong, and
so sickening for a parent to do that I can't find words. This mother
should see a psychologist right now (accelerate! Don't procrastinate!)
to find out exactly why she needs to put these labels, limits and
expectations on her children and to find out before it's too late how to
undo the damage she has already inflicted on poor little seven year old,
ungifted, adopted Nate, and the others. God, I'm still feeling sick
over that one.
Deb L, who's sad attempt at being grown up is over...neener.
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
At 03:58 PM 8/22/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Thank you so much for the information about Accelerated Unschooling and
it's remarkable distinction to Traditional Unschooling. I'm am curious to
learn more.
Unfortunately, being neither gifted, talented nor accelerated like
yourself, you may have to speak real slow and use smaller words. As a
Traditional Unschooler, I lacked the motivation to learn and now I don't
know any of the big ones. Amazingly, Procrastination and Laziness are
indeed our middle names! As a matter of fact, should Social Services find
out about our total lack of initiative and motivation, they'd probably try
to take the children away - excepting of course that the total inertial
mass, which I believe to be centered in the middle of our living room as
evidenced by the pile of kids, toys and dishes, is so great that it is more
likely that the nice Social Services people will be unable to pull away
should they stop moving at any time during their visit. They'll be stuck
here for years. Thankfully, we have plenty of sofas, so they'll be
comfortable at least.
I am concerned though, to hear that you are exposing your youngest adopted
son in many areas. While there are some families who believe in the nudist
or natural way of living and some people enjoy 'flashing' others, general
society frowns on such naturalism. As a matter of fact, there was someone
arrested locally for exactly just such behavior. I thought I should
mention it, in case it had not yet come up.
It is especially delightful that AU (may I call it AU?) is becoming more
popular and that they are actually doing workshops with it's inventors! I
went to a workshop once where Ron Popiel demonstrated a knife he'd invented
that was also a juicer and that could cut through cans too. I ended up not
buying one because I don't have much call for cutting through juice cans,
but it sure was impressive!
I'd be pleased if you would quickly tell me more about Accelerated
Unschooling. Quickly please, before my motivation runs dry!
Yours,
(signed)
Heidi
>Any ideas as to a good response I can send?Dear Kay,
Thank you so much for the information about Accelerated Unschooling and
it's remarkable distinction to Traditional Unschooling. I'm am curious to
learn more.
Unfortunately, being neither gifted, talented nor accelerated like
yourself, you may have to speak real slow and use smaller words. As a
Traditional Unschooler, I lacked the motivation to learn and now I don't
know any of the big ones. Amazingly, Procrastination and Laziness are
indeed our middle names! As a matter of fact, should Social Services find
out about our total lack of initiative and motivation, they'd probably try
to take the children away - excepting of course that the total inertial
mass, which I believe to be centered in the middle of our living room as
evidenced by the pile of kids, toys and dishes, is so great that it is more
likely that the nice Social Services people will be unable to pull away
should they stop moving at any time during their visit. They'll be stuck
here for years. Thankfully, we have plenty of sofas, so they'll be
comfortable at least.
I am concerned though, to hear that you are exposing your youngest adopted
son in many areas. While there are some families who believe in the nudist
or natural way of living and some people enjoy 'flashing' others, general
society frowns on such naturalism. As a matter of fact, there was someone
arrested locally for exactly just such behavior. I thought I should
mention it, in case it had not yet come up.
It is especially delightful that AU (may I call it AU?) is becoming more
popular and that they are actually doing workshops with it's inventors! I
went to a workshop once where Ron Popiel demonstrated a knife he'd invented
that was also a juicer and that could cut through cans too. I ended up not
buying one because I don't have much call for cutting through juice cans,
but it sure was impressive!
I'd be pleased if you would quickly tell me more about Accelerated
Unschooling. Quickly please, before my motivation runs dry!
Yours,
(signed)
Heidi
[email protected]
Oh, Heidi,
You know, don't you, that was very naughty.
You should never, ever leave a Ron Popiel demonstration without the doo
dad.
If you had purchased the can juicer you might have used it to reverse the
lobotomy that poor, child exposing woman must have suffered during the
acceleration.
Deb L, ( snorting coke over that one )
You know, don't you, that was very naughty.
You should never, ever leave a Ron Popiel demonstration without the doo
dad.
If you had purchased the can juicer you might have used it to reverse the
lobotomy that poor, child exposing woman must have suffered during the
acceleration.
Deb L, ( snorting coke over that one )
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/02 3:08:17 PM, ElissaJC@... writes:
<< I also dislike it when people continue to call a child "my adopted child"
Once you adopt him/her, s/he IS your child. period. >>
Not really.
Only if you want it to be so.
Even legally speaking, people can put aside their biological children. They
can relinquish parental rights, or disown an older child.
So there is a biological reality separate from the legal, and in this case
this boy doesn't have the biological "advantage" of the giftedness.
(This stuff is truly kinda sickening to me, but I'm trying to be objective
just about this one aspect.)
What if he's talented in any or all of those areas in which the mom and
siblings are not? I'm guessing that the mom is somewhat lacking in inter-
and intrapersonal intelligence or she would not be doing this division and
judgment of the humans in her home.
Sandra
<< I also dislike it when people continue to call a child "my adopted child"
Once you adopt him/her, s/he IS your child. period. >>
Not really.
Only if you want it to be so.
Even legally speaking, people can put aside their biological children. They
can relinquish parental rights, or disown an older child.
So there is a biological reality separate from the legal, and in this case
this boy doesn't have the biological "advantage" of the giftedness.
(This stuff is truly kinda sickening to me, but I'm trying to be objective
just about this one aspect.)
What if he's talented in any or all of those areas in which the mom and
siblings are not? I'm guessing that the mom is somewhat lacking in inter-
and intrapersonal intelligence or she would not be doing this division and
judgment of the humans in her home.
Sandra
Nanci Kuykendall
I know it's no laughing matter, but everyone's heated
responses had me LOL. You GO Girls!
Also in relation this this:
Nanci K.
responses had me LOL. You GO Girls!
Also in relation this this:
>I also dislike it when people continue to call aI could not agree more. It makes me feel ill.
>child "my adopted child" Once you adopt him/her, s/he
>IS your child. period. Why spend your whole life
>pointing something out that means nothing?
Nanci K.
carolyn
"Accelerated Unschooling" promises to solve the "motivation concern" by assigning
it to the parent who will then help the child to realize their own full
potential. The problem with that is that there quite simply is no motivation
problem. It appears to be a dishonet use of the language to get a child to do
what the parent wants the child to do.
Today, my daughter mostly watched TV. She was offered a variety of other choices
and chose to watch TV with occasional cartwheel breaks. She has a cold and she
is dealing with a friendship that isn't going well right now. Today, she is
highly motivated to zone out and watch TV. It's not even possible for me to
"take control of the motivation piece". If I tried to force it, it would be MY
motivation she would be responding to, not hers. Just how can someone possibly
"take control of the motivation piece" for another person? It's nonsense.
"Traditional unschooling" aka as actual Unschooling can, perhaps, be
"accelerated" but it would have to be the learner's foot pushing the gas pedal or
it can't honestly even be considered unschooling.
I can see, however, that Accelerated Unschooling has some appeal for the
frustrated parent, particularly those of us whose children who have been in
school and haven't yet found their way to self-direction. Personally, I'd rather
take math or history away from her (if that were even possible) than to deprive
her of her "motivation piece".
Carolyn
it to the parent who will then help the child to realize their own full
potential. The problem with that is that there quite simply is no motivation
problem. It appears to be a dishonet use of the language to get a child to do
what the parent wants the child to do.
Today, my daughter mostly watched TV. She was offered a variety of other choices
and chose to watch TV with occasional cartwheel breaks. She has a cold and she
is dealing with a friendship that isn't going well right now. Today, she is
highly motivated to zone out and watch TV. It's not even possible for me to
"take control of the motivation piece". If I tried to force it, it would be MY
motivation she would be responding to, not hers. Just how can someone possibly
"take control of the motivation piece" for another person? It's nonsense.
"Traditional unschooling" aka as actual Unschooling can, perhaps, be
"accelerated" but it would have to be the learner's foot pushing the gas pedal or
it can't honestly even be considered unschooling.
I can see, however, that Accelerated Unschooling has some appeal for the
frustrated parent, particularly those of us whose children who have been in
school and haven't yet found their way to self-direction. Personally, I'd rather
take math or history away from her (if that were even possible) than to deprive
her of her "motivation piece".
Carolyn
Karen
The whole letter was nauseating. Good luck, Sandra.
It did give me an idea... I'm thinking of doing a "motivation piece" for the
living room, so that then whoever wants to take the motivation piece can do
so for as long as they like. We could pass it around. Hang it on the wall
when not needed. Let the dogs play with it (they are Gifted and Talented
too.)
Karen
Largely unGifted and unTalented and right now, highly unMotivated.
It did give me an idea... I'm thinking of doing a "motivation piece" for the
living room, so that then whoever wants to take the motivation piece can do
so for as long as they like. We could pass it around. Hang it on the wall
when not needed. Let the dogs play with it (they are Gifted and Talented
too.)
Karen
Largely unGifted and unTalented and right now, highly unMotivated.
[email protected]
Deb L, ( snorting coke over that one )
Deb,
If you keep snorting coke, you'll be accelerated yourself!
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Deb,
If you keep snorting coke, you'll be accelerated yourself!
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Tia Leschke
>Oh, Heidi,Yeah, that Heidi is quite the comic. But Deb, I didn't know you were
>You know, don't you, that was very naughty.
>You should never, ever leave a Ron Popiel demonstration without the doo
>dad.
>If you had purchased the can juicer you might have used it to reverse the
>lobotomy that poor, child exposing woman must have suffered during the
>acceleration.
>
>Deb L, ( snorting coke over that one )
having a problem with coke. Bad stuff, that.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
>If you keep snorting coke, you'll be accelerated yourself!Ah, yes, and it was diet. I think it actually accelerates out the snout
faster.
Deb L
[email protected]
***I didn't know you were
having a problem with coke. Bad stuff, that.***
Exhilarated Unschooling? ( frankly, the kind with lemon sorta stings )
Deb L
having a problem with coke. Bad stuff, that.***
Exhilarated Unschooling? ( frankly, the kind with lemon sorta stings )
Deb L
Kate Green
>Geez this really is sickening. Sounds as if she is trying to test out the
> So there is a biological reality separate from the legal, and in this case
>"" of the giftedness.
nature/nurture argument in some sickened home experiment.
Makes you think the social services didn't check this mother out very well
before placing the kid.
Kate
Fetteroll
Well, if you say all the things you want to say she'll say "Up yours!" and
you won't be able to draw her out and find out more! ;-)
How about:
Okay, I'm a little confused. To me a foundational part of unschooling is
allowing the blossom to unfold in its own time. This sounds like an arborist
unfolding a blossom which feels like more about serving the arborist's needs
than the blossom's needs.
I'm a pretty good cook but I don't cook often. Some would look at me and
probably say I'm lazy. I might even call myself lazy sometimes. But more
often I'd say the trouble involved in cooking the way I like isn't worth
giving up other things that are more interesting and more satisfying for me.
And I know I'd resent it if my husband saw cooking potential in me and
decided I needed classes and books and all sorts of other things to help me
reach my cooking potential.
Does that make sense? How would it be different for a child?
So I'm not sure how this fits in with the unschooling philosophy. It seems
to be ignoring an essential aspect, like ignoring the part about eating
vegetables in vegetarianism! ;-) I guess I might see it as Accelerated
Interest-led Learning, but accelerated and unschooling seem to me to
contradict each other.
help the kids get what they need. I don't see unschooling handicapping
children's access to resources. Getting them access to resources is a part
of unschooling. Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.
Unschooling.com message boards. There wasn't a single person who was
identified as gifted as a child who said they appreciated having the
pressure to perform to their potential. They all felt they were being asked
to meet external milestones and move in directions others wanted them to
apply their talents in rather than being able to develop who they were. They
felt they were moved in the direction of their talents rather than being
alowed to move in the direction of their interests.
I'm good at math -- got a degree in electical engineering --, good at
drawing, writing, science, computers. Others looking at those skills would
have very definite ideas about what I should be doing. But I'd bet they
wouldn't match what I *enjoy* doing with my life! :-)
So how do you avoid confusing what you want for your children with what they
want for themselves? That's been one of the hard parts of unschooling for
me: realizing that my seemingly reasonable goals for my daughter hamper her
goals for herself. And what it's taken me a long time to come to grips with
is that it's the journey that counts, not the destination. In life, no
matter how goal oriented we are, we never really seem to "get there." We're
always on the path, not enjoying the path because we're tying to get
somewhere. But we never get there!
Regardless of how offbeat the path is that my daughter chooses, she'll be on
the path she wants to be on. Where she goes on that path -- or paths -- I'm
coming to see, isn't so important as enjoying being on the path and being
able to go at whatever pace suits her and having the freedom to divert off
onto another path if she stumbles on something more interesting.
See, to me that's unschooling. It's what John Holt discussed in his books.
This "accelerated" unschooling seems to be about deciding some paths are
more important than others and channeling the children along those paths and
determining what's an optimal pace for them. That's pretty much what I
wanted to avoid by not sending my daughter to school!
Unless theres's something about this I'm not understanding.
can brag to the neightbors about, I've never seen a kid who is interested in
very little! ;-)
What I've found truly astounding is the areas that seemingly nonsensical
"waste of time" interests like Pokemon, cartoons and video games have opened
up for my daughter. They are sort of like entryways to the rest of the world
for her. She may not pursue them to the depth that would satisfy me, but if
she's left with good feelings about what she did explore, then I know she
will return to it when it's more meaningful for her.
Though I could encourage or make her write and draw to reach what others
might judge as her full potential, it's by doing things in her own way at
her own pace that is taking her into unexplored territory. She sees things
in ways that no one else ever has.
I'm not, of course, holding her back from more traditionaly routes. She
takes classes but right now it's apparently important to her to be with
teachers who encourage kids to follow their own paths rather than do things
the "right way".
I'm just not seeing how "full potential" can ever be free from others' ideas
of whether someone else is there or not. How can I judge that my daughter's
comics are not at her full potential if she's doing what she wants to?
Following what she wants in the way she wants in the time frame she wants
seems to me to be essential to unschooling.
Joyce
you won't be able to draw her out and find out more! ;-)
How about:
Okay, I'm a little confused. To me a foundational part of unschooling is
allowing the blossom to unfold in its own time. This sounds like an arborist
unfolding a blossom which feels like more about serving the arborist's needs
than the blossom's needs.
I'm a pretty good cook but I don't cook often. Some would look at me and
probably say I'm lazy. I might even call myself lazy sometimes. But more
often I'd say the trouble involved in cooking the way I like isn't worth
giving up other things that are more interesting and more satisfying for me.
And I know I'd resent it if my husband saw cooking potential in me and
decided I needed classes and books and all sorts of other things to help me
reach my cooking potential.
Does that make sense? How would it be different for a child?
So I'm not sure how this fits in with the unschooling philosophy. It seems
to be ignoring an essential aspect, like ignoring the part about eating
vegetables in vegetarianism! ;-) I guess I might see it as Accelerated
Interest-led Learning, but accelerated and unschooling seem to me to
contradict each other.
> Many children and adultsI think getting around limited resources is just part of homeschooling. We
> have very strong gifts and interests that they'd like to pursue, but limited
> resources, and, even more, procrastination or laziness keep them from
> pursuing them.
help the kids get what they need. I don't see unschooling handicapping
children's access to resources. Getting them access to resources is a part
of unschooling. Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.
> This is especially important for children who areThere was a lengthy discussion recently about being gifted on the
> Gifted or Talented, but who often lack motivation. Accelerated Unschooling
> allows them to reach their potentials.
Unschooling.com message boards. There wasn't a single person who was
identified as gifted as a child who said they appreciated having the
pressure to perform to their potential. They all felt they were being asked
to meet external milestones and move in directions others wanted them to
apply their talents in rather than being able to develop who they were. They
felt they were moved in the direction of their talents rather than being
alowed to move in the direction of their interests.
I'm good at math -- got a degree in electical engineering --, good at
drawing, writing, science, computers. Others looking at those skills would
have very definite ideas about what I should be doing. But I'd bet they
wouldn't match what I *enjoy* doing with my life! :-)
So how do you avoid confusing what you want for your children with what they
want for themselves? That's been one of the hard parts of unschooling for
me: realizing that my seemingly reasonable goals for my daughter hamper her
goals for herself. And what it's taken me a long time to come to grips with
is that it's the journey that counts, not the destination. In life, no
matter how goal oriented we are, we never really seem to "get there." We're
always on the path, not enjoying the path because we're tying to get
somewhere. But we never get there!
Regardless of how offbeat the path is that my daughter chooses, she'll be on
the path she wants to be on. Where she goes on that path -- or paths -- I'm
coming to see, isn't so important as enjoying being on the path and being
able to go at whatever pace suits her and having the freedom to divert off
onto another path if she stumbles on something more interesting.
See, to me that's unschooling. It's what John Holt discussed in his books.
This "accelerated" unschooling seems to be about deciding some paths are
more important than others and channeling the children along those paths and
determining what's an optimal pace for them. That's pretty much what I
wanted to avoid by not sending my daughter to school!
Unless theres's something about this I'm not understanding.
> Presently he expressesThough I've seen plenty of kids who express little interest in things adults
> interest in very little, so we are remedially exposing him to many areas.
can brag to the neightbors about, I've never seen a kid who is interested in
very little! ;-)
What I've found truly astounding is the areas that seemingly nonsensical
"waste of time" interests like Pokemon, cartoons and video games have opened
up for my daughter. They are sort of like entryways to the rest of the world
for her. She may not pursue them to the depth that would satisfy me, but if
she's left with good feelings about what she did explore, then I know she
will return to it when it's more meaningful for her.
Though I could encourage or make her write and draw to reach what others
might judge as her full potential, it's by doing things in her own way at
her own pace that is taking her into unexplored territory. She sees things
in ways that no one else ever has.
I'm not, of course, holding her back from more traditionaly routes. She
takes classes but right now it's apparently important to her to be with
teachers who encourage kids to follow their own paths rather than do things
the "right way".
I'm just not seeing how "full potential" can ever be free from others' ideas
of whether someone else is there or not. How can I judge that my daughter's
comics are not at her full potential if she's doing what she wants to?
Following what she wants in the way she wants in the time frame she wants
seems to me to be essential to unschooling.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/02 1:33:21 AM, karegree@... writes:
<< Makes you think the social services didn't check this mother out very well
before placing the kid. >>
If the house was clean and they had money and education, and nobody was dirty
or neglected, what would there to have been to question?
It's sad, but her ungifted child is probably better off there than 95% or
better of other places he could be.
Sandra
<< Makes you think the social services didn't check this mother out very well
before placing the kid. >>
If the house was clean and they had money and education, and nobody was dirty
or neglected, what would there to have been to question?
It's sad, but her ungifted child is probably better off there than 95% or
better of other places he could be.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/2002 9:36:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
kbmatlock@... writes:
<< It did give me an idea... I'm thinking of doing a "motivation piece" for
the
living room, so that then whoever wants to take the motivation piece can do
so for as long as they like. We could pass it around. Hang it on the wall
when not needed. Let the dogs play with it (they are Gifted and Talented
too.) >>
It could be like a "round tuit". (A circular piece similar to a pog with the
phrase 'round tuit' printed on it.) "I'll do so-and-so when I get a round
tuit." Anybody else remember those? My stepfather gave me one of those
years ago. He's always been in sales........ah the motivational world. :-)
Joy
kbmatlock@... writes:
<< It did give me an idea... I'm thinking of doing a "motivation piece" for
the
living room, so that then whoever wants to take the motivation piece can do
so for as long as they like. We could pass it around. Hang it on the wall
when not needed. Let the dogs play with it (they are Gifted and Talented
too.) >>
It could be like a "round tuit". (A circular piece similar to a pog with the
phrase 'round tuit' printed on it.) "I'll do so-and-so when I get a round
tuit." Anybody else remember those? My stepfather gave me one of those
years ago. He's always been in sales........ah the motivational world. :-)
Joy
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/02 8:27:34 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< It could be like a "round tuit". (A circular piece similar to a pog with
the
phrase 'round tuit' printed on it.) "I'll do so-and-so when I get a round
tuit." >>
I've seen round potholders/hot pads with "tuit" on them.
Sandra
<< It could be like a "round tuit". (A circular piece similar to a pog with
the
phrase 'round tuit' printed on it.) "I'll do so-and-so when I get a round
tuit." >>
I've seen round potholders/hot pads with "tuit" on them.
Sandra