Susan Bundlie

<<Karen, who never saw a pecan tree until she visited the Alamo.
in michigan - where asphalt is never said correctly, neither is chimney =
ugh>>

Okay, how is asphalt pronouced? And chimney? I say "ass-fault" and
"chim-nee". How about pecan? Unless I skipped over it, I didn't see a
"correct" pronunciation (I admit to the northern "puh-cahn")

Susan ("soo-z'n")

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/17/01 10:23:45 AM, strandbe@... writes:

<< (I admit to the northern "puh-cahn") >>

I think that's right. If you're not saying "PE can" you're good (in my
southern opinion).

The Mowery Family

>
> Okay, how is asphalt pronouced? And chimney? I say "ass-fault" and
> "chim-nee". How about pecan? Unless I skipped over it, I didn't see a
> "correct" pronunciation (I admit to the northern "puh-cahn")

Most folks round these parts say "ash-fault" and "chim-lee", it drives me
out of my mind. At first I thought they were joking, til I laughed and they
didn't.

Karen Mowery ("Care-in" Mao-ree")
in MI ("mi-shi-ghen")

Jocelyn Vilter

See, I *love* stuff like this. I love regional (mis)pronounciations and
dialects. My dad is from Pittsburgh, PA and I grew up hearing that and
thinking it was normal<g>. Has anyone else seen the "speak Pittsburghese"
website? I think it's a scream, although if you have never heard it spoken
out loud, I think you might be baffled.
http://www.pittsburghese.com/

Jocelyn

> From: "The Mowery Family" <jkkddmowery@...>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:13:10 -0500
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Pronunciation
>
> Most folks round these parts say "ash-fault" and "chim-lee", it drives me
> out of my mind. At first I thought they were joking, til I laughed and they
> didn't.

Sue & Ron Patterson

I love it too, Joc!

Then you have Route (rowt? or root?) and wash (wahsh or worsh?)...I'm sure
I'll think of more.
Someone may be sorry they started this!! LOL!!!

Sue...from Texas who also says puh-cahn!

Jocelyn Vilter

>
> Then you have Route (rowt? or root?) and wash (wahsh or worsh?)...I'm sure
> I'll think of more.
> Someone may be sorry they started this!! LOL!!!
>
> Sue...from Texas who also says puh-cahn!

Me too. Fourteen years in Texas did somethin' to me, and then combined wit'
my PA backroun', I mos'ly soun' like a hick, fer shure.

Jocelyn,
who now lives in CA where there are no accents or dialects.

Sue & Ron Patterson

> Me too. Fourteen years in Texas did somethin' to me, and then combined
wit'
> my PA backroun', I mos'ly soun' like a hick, fer shure.

LOL!

> Jocelyn,
> who now lives in CA where there are no accents or dialects.

Weeeellll, ma l'il native Tex-sun chillun think that all th' othu' chillun
'round these parts of California talk purty darn funny!

SueP
...who lived 10 years in Kansas City with summers in the Ozarks, then to
Dallas, then North Carolina, then San Antonio, then Alaska, now Northern
California.... so, I have a pretty garbled bag of accents mah-self!

Nancy Wooton

on 12/17/01 10:49 AM, Jocelyn Vilter at JVilter@... wrote:

> Jocelyn,
> who now lives in CA where there are no accents or dialects.

Oh, m'gawd, you mean you missed the Valley girl phenomenon? I'm like, sohh
sure. You musta still been in Texus.

Nancy

Jocelyn Vilter

Naw, I knew as soon as I hit send that I'd forgotten this one. Although we
were in Texas when the movie came out. I was in a dressing room at school
the other day (I'm a costume designer) with a bunch of freshman girls and
the Val Girl thing is still alive and well, fer shure!

jocelyn

> From: Nancy Wooton <Felicitas@...>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:06:29 -0800
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Pronunciation
>
> on 12/17/01 10:49 AM, Jocelyn Vilter at JVilter@... wrote:
>
>> Jocelyn,
>> who now lives in CA where there are no accents or dialects.
>
> Oh, m'gawd, you mean you missed the Valley girl phenomenon? I'm like, sohh
> sure. You musta still been in Texus.
>
> Nancy
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

The Mowery Family

> http://www.pittsburghese.com/
>
> Jocelyn


Oh Jocelyn,

That is so funny. I just spent the weekend with my husbands family and they
are all from near the area (actually on the mountain outside Uniontown), I
am nearly in tears. The worst part about it, I didn't really need to read
the definition!

When I first met the kinfolk, I could hardly understand a word they were
sayin.

Great-Grandma: If youins don't git yer fet off the davenport, I ma gonna
tan yer hide. Now wretch around and pick up the flicker, poosh da buttin
and turn on the TV so I can watch ma storiez, cause I ma fixin to go to the
commode then I hav ta woorsh ma head fore we drive inta town.

Karen - who learned never to use an alunamin latter to wretch the chimlee
when its fixin to whrain.

[email protected]

I had a friend from Philadelphia in College. I thought he had a speech
impediment, but it was so minor I soon forgot about it. Years passed and I
met another person with the same speech impediment, also from Philadelphia.

I love when the local pronunciation of the name of the place will give away
the natives.

ChiCAAAgo does it. That "a" doesn't even exist in most other American
dialects.

Phiwadelphia is another. It's not a total "w" but it's certainly not an "r"
the way they say it.

And Wisconsin. Most people who learned it from reading it say "Wis con sin."
Natives I've heard have said "Wi SKAAN sin." Heavy on the "SKAA."


Holly said two weeks ago that she would like to hear someone from England do
an American accent. I talked to her briefly about Kenneth Brannagh doing
"Dead Again" (with only one mistake I heard) and about Benny Hill who used to
do country'n'western songs, and almost always make a couple of mistakes
(usually a hard internal "t").

A few nights ago on a sitcom an English character said he was going to be in
a play, and was doing an American accent, "Listen! " and he procedes to do
ten lines or so American dialog about hamburgers and the truck and a hot dog,
and then goes back to his own accent. She was THRILLED because it had been
taped by her brother, and so she got to listen to it another couple of times,
and share it with me.

In Yorkshire she could understand things I couldn't understand.

Kirby used to recognize voice-actors.

Marty used to interpret what Holly and other babies were saying when it was
unintellible to the adults around.

So that being a talent and interest at my house, I'm really enjoying this
conversation.

Sandra

Nancy Wooton

on 12/17/01 12:34 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Holly said two weeks ago that she would like to hear someone from England do
> an American accent.

Tracy Ullman does all kinds of American dialects well.

Nancy

The Mowery Family

My friend Jen is from Wales. One day she came to playgroup and had a
question regarding her "skanar", I asked her to repeat the question 4 times
before she finally said, "you know the scAAANNer (in her best michigan
dialect). We had a great laugh about that the other day. Tomorrow night
the old group of moms is going out to dinner/shopping/drinks and she is
bringing her sister who just arrived from Wales yesterday for the holiday.
I can't wait to talk to her. Tell Holly, the folks in Wales rib Jen
terribly when she goes back for a visit cause they say she has now acquired
a michigan/american accent.

Karen
outside of DEEtroit where loads of folks work for Fords and pay phones now
take fiddy cent for a local call


----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Pronunciation


> I had a friend from Philadelphia in College. I thought he had a speech
> impediment, but it was so minor I soon forgot about it. Years passed and
I
> met another person with the same speech impediment, also from
Philadelphia.
>
> I love when the local pronunciation of the name of the place will give
away
> the natives.
>
> ChiCAAAgo does it. That "a" doesn't even exist in most other American
> dialects.
>
> Phiwadelphia is another. It's not a total "w" but it's certainly not an
"r"
> the way they say it.
>
> And Wisconsin. Most people who learned it from reading it say "Wis con
sin."
> Natives I've heard have said "Wi SKAAN sin." Heavy on the "SKAA."
>
>
> Holly said two weeks ago that she would like to hear someone from England
do
> an American accent. I talked to her briefly about Kenneth Brannagh doing
> "Dead Again" (with only one mistake I heard) and about Benny Hill who used
to
> do country'n'western songs, and almost always make a couple of mistakes
> (usually a hard internal "t").
>
> A few nights ago on a sitcom an English character said he was going to be
in
> a play, and was doing an American accent, "Listen! " and he procedes to do
> ten lines or so American dialog about hamburgers and the truck and a hot
dog,
> and then goes back to his own accent. She was THRILLED because it had
been
> taped by her brother, and so she got to listen to it another couple of
times,
> and share it with me.
>
> In Yorkshire she could understand things I couldn't understand.
>
> Kirby used to recognize voice-actors.
>
> Marty used to interpret what Holly and other babies were saying when it
was
> unintellible to the adults around.
>
> So that being a talent and interest at my house, I'm really enjoying this
> conversation.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/17/01 3:57:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jkkddmowery@... writes:

<<
Karen
outside of DEEtroit where loads of folks work for Fords and pay phones now
take fiddy cent for a local call
>>
Hi Karen,
I'm in Ta-LEE-da, Oh-HI-a (otherwise known as Toledo, Ohio.) Ohio has lots
of different accents...folks in southern Ohio sound much more southern, like
West Virginians or some parts of Kentucky
Amy

Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A> make great gifts
and can be ordered til Dec 17
for Christmas delivery!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)

Karen Matlock

OK, I didn't see this mentioned, so I'll ask. It's the one grammar thing dh
does that drives me absolutely bonkers. (He's from Oklahoma, so I'll say no
more, except that those Michiganders and Pittsburghians have nothing on my
mil!)

"The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs fed."

It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it from
other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much. Anyone
else do this? When I hear this, I finally get to practice my Lamaze!

Karen


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

kayb85

Up until about a year ago, when a friend pointed it out to me, I
always did it. Even though I try to catch myself when I slip back
into it (like when the baby's diaper needs changed ;), I fear it is
too late for my oldest two children. I feel guilty everytime I hear
"Mommy, my shoe needs tied", knowing they picked that up from me. I
didn't even know there was anything wrong with it. :) I grew up in a
home with two parents who were teachers and a mom who was constantly
correcting my grammar. Now I realize that MY MOM THE GRAMMAR QUEEN
DOES THIS TOO! lol

Sheila, deep in the coal regions of PA, where it is common to be
addressed as "butt" and demonstrative pronouns are seldom used.


--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., "Karen Matlock" <kbmatlock@y...> wrote:
> OK, I didn't see this mentioned, so I'll ask. It's the one grammar
thing dh
> does that drives me absolutely bonkers. (He's from Oklahoma, so I'll
say no
> more, except that those Michiganders and Pittsburghians have nothing
on my
> mil!)
>
> "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs
fed."
>
> It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it
from
> other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much.
Anyone
> else do this? When I hear this, I finally get to practice my Lamaze!
>
> Karen
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

kayb85

roflol! My grandparents are from that area too and that is so
accurate! We have a similar dictionary in the anthracite coal region:
http://www.coalregion.com/
Sheila

> > http://www.pittsburghese.com/
> >
> > Jocelyn
>
>
> Oh Jocelyn,
>
> That is so funny. I just spent the weekend with my husbands family
and they
> are all from near the area (actually on the mountain outside
Uniontown), I
> am nearly in tears. The worst part about it, I didn't really need
to read
> the definition!
>
> When I first met the kinfolk, I could hardly understand a word they
were
> sayin.
>
> Great-Grandma: If youins don't git yer fet off the davenport, I ma
gonna
> tan yer hide. Now wretch around and pick up the flicker, poosh da
buttin
> and turn on the TV so I can watch ma storiez, cause I ma fixin to go
to the
> commode then I hav ta woorsh ma head fore we drive inta town.
>
> Karen - who learned never to use an alunamin latter to wretch the
chimlee
> when its fixin to whrain.

kayb85

> Phiwadelphia is another. It's not a total "w" but it's certainly
not an "r"
> the way they say it.

I have a friend from Philadelphia. The two things she says that
catches my attention the most are the words crayon and America. She
says the -er in America as though it rhymes with the first syllable of
early. When she says crayon, it sounds like she is saying crown.

Sheila

Fetteroll

on 12/18/01 1:14 AM, Karen Matlock at kbmatlock@... wrote:

> "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs fed."

I do it all the time. And the first half of my life was spent in Pittsburgh
and the second half in Boston. Never even been to Oklahoma ;-)

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joseph Fuerst

I hear this in many rural Ohio counties.
S....gotta go, the kids need fed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Matlock" <kbmatlock@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:14 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] RE: Pronunciation


> OK, I didn't see this mentioned, so I'll ask. It's the one grammar thing
dh
> does that drives me absolutely bonkers. (He's from Oklahoma, so I'll say
no
> more, except that those Michiganders and Pittsburghians have nothing on my
> mil!)
>
> "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs fed."
>
> It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it from
> other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much.
Anyone
> else do this? When I hear this, I finally get to practice my Lamaze!
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
>
> Do You Yahoo!?
>
> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[email protected]

> "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs
> fed."

We have an absent minded professor- type friend from Oklahoma who does
this.
I like it. I think it sounds charming in his gentle Oklahoma accent.
Lately when my husband and son are roughhousing Dylan will say, "I'm
sorry dad but you need learned", and then the throttling begins... ( ah,
the academic and social benefits of unschooling )

Deb L, with a walk needs shoveled.

carolyn

I didn't even know I do that one (or that it was odd to do that) until
dh pointed it out. I'm born and raised in California but my mother and
dad are from Pennsylvania so I still hear li-barry, San Fran SIS co (4
words), Sa cra MEN to (another 4 words), anyhow (instead of oh, well),
and r-unge (for a certain fruit), etc. I hadn't realized it was a
regional dialect. Thanks for the site!

Carolyn

Karen Matlock wrote:

> "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs
> fed."
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/18/01 10:58:11 AM, nielsonc@... writes:

<< San Fran SIS co (4
words), Sa cra MEN to (another 4 words), >>

Hm. I grew up in California -- and that's how I've always prounounced San
Francisco and Sacramento. *shrugs*

Sharon

[email protected]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:23:41 -0000 "kayb85" <sheran@...> writes:
> I feel guilty everytime I hear
> "Mommy, my shoe needs tied", knowing they picked that up from me. I
> didn't even know there was anything wrong with it. :) I grew up in a
> home with two parents who were teachers and a mom who was constantly
> correcting my grammar. Now I realize that MY MOM THE GRAMMAR QUEEN
> DOES THIS TOO! lol

I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I find it charming. :-)
Presciptive grammarians try to take all the fun out of language as a
growing, evolving system. There is no "correct" grammar, only grammar
that those with power have decided is superior.

Yesterday Cacie and I were out shopping and she admired some little pots
with skin cream in them that a local potter was selling. The man running
the shop kept encouraging her to try the "tasters", and she went over and
scooped out some of the cream and then asked me if she was really
supposed to taste it. He was saying "testers", of course...

Dar, who used to live a mile from Oakland and likes linguistics books
more than grammar books
________________________________________________________________
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KT

> It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it from
> other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much.
> Anyone
> else do this? When I hear this, I finally get to practice my Lamaz.


Yeah, I hear that in Arkansas and west TN a lot.

My dh always says "acrost" when he means "across" and that drives me
nuts. That comes from his mother who grew up in rural central Florida
(when it was still part of the South <g>). She also says Wal-Mark,
which is kinda funny and probably uniquely hers.

Karen

Janet

>>It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it from
other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much. Anyone
else do this? When I hear this, I finally get to practice my Lamaze!<<

I had several roommates from the Pittsburgh area and they all said things
like this. "My clothes need washed." "The room needs vacuumed." I was in
school in Oklahoma but never heard this from the Okies, just the
Pittsburghers :)

Now, in Texas I heard a lot of "might could" as in "I might could go to the
store after work"

Janet

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/17/01 11:14:37 PM, kbmatlock@... writes:

<< "The lawn needs mowed." "The house needs cleaned." "The cat needs fed."

It's always "needs" with the past tense of the verb. I've heard it from
other Oklahomans, but no one else. Then again, I don't get out much. Anyone
else do this? >>

In England there were five (I think five) major dialects of English, 500
years ago. All were equally legitimate at one time. The politics of the
Crown of England settled one of them in to primacy (the king's English, which
went into grammar books). Other dialects survive in part, and that formation
above probably has as good a history as the other two options, which are to
add the infinitive "the lawn needs TO BE mowed" or to use the gerund (the
lawn needs mowing), which is more common in England than in the U.S. or
Canada.

Reading the history of English might be more fun that Lamaze breathing.
There are some very cool survivals in the SE, out to Texas and SE New Mexico.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/18/01 9:03:13 AM, sharonve@... writes:

<< Hm. I grew up in California -- and that's how I've always prounounced San
Francisco and Sacramento. *shrugs* >>

I'm figuring you didn't have daylight between the syllables. It's not the
emphasis, it's the choppy delivery.

Nancy Wooton

One way pronunciations (and mispronunciations) are passed along is by mass
media; I just heard a commercial for a vegetable chopper, in which the
announcer said "pee-CANS."

Nancy


--
The appropriately beautiful or ugly sound of any word is an illusion wrought
on us by what the word connotes.
--Max Beerbohm, writer, critic, and caricaturist (1872-1956)

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/18/01 2:17:14 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:

<< I'm figuring you didn't have daylight between the syllables. It's not the
emphasis, it's the choppy delivery. >>

oh! Four WORDS. I get it now.

Sharon