Nanci Kuykendall

>True. Supposed to be. But it isn't. The VAST majority
>of college students are sort of sleepwalking <G> when
>it comes to learning. What I mean is that they just
>do not have any concept of anything beyond school and
>their sociallife. To them the ENTIRE point of a class
>is to take the tests, get the passing grades, and
>graduate. There are very very few who could not JUMP
>at the chance to skip a class if they could just get
>credit.
>-pam

It's interesting Pam, that you use that terminology,
Sleepwalking. It's exactly the term I would use, for
the same reasons. But I would not stop at applying it
to those droning through institutionalized schooling.
My husband and I have talked about and developed a
theory about folks in general. So many people are
sleepwalking through life, not truly aware of their
own feelings, motivations, dreams, passions, talents,
spirit. They are blind and oblivious to the pulse of
life, and to their place within that flow. They limit
themselves with artificial boundaries, don't truly
connect with other human beings, are defensive and
small minded in their little fortresses of "reality"
which they have painstakingly improsoned themselves
in.

It is so sad to us to see people thus living; shallow,
empty, seeking, unsatisfied, yearning after material
goods as if that will fill the hole within them. It
is particularly sad when it is so easy to wake up, to
blink your eyes and breath deeply and really become
aware of life and the world around you in more than a
superficial way. Well, it seems like it should be
easy anyway, although I know many people have painful
and often unrecognized emotional reasons for not being
truly honest with themselves, or not wanting to look
too deeply at their lives.

I consider Unschoolers to be, in general, a pretty
awake group of people, vivaciously partaking of and
participating in life, not accepting the status quo,
toeing the line, or blindly accepting anything. Most
importantly, they have deep and full relationships and
unserstandings of their loved ones, living in mutual
respect and admiration of one another. I wish I knew
more unschoolers in person.

Nanci K.


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In a message dated 7/24/02 12:19:45 PM, aisliin@... writes:

<< So many people are
sleepwalking through life, not truly aware of their
own feelings, motivations, dreams, passions, talents,
spirit. >>

Maybe they are aware of as much as there is.
Maybe that's it for them.

<<It is so sad to us to see people thus living; shallow,
empty, seeking, unsatisfied, yearning after material
goods as if that will fill the hole within them. It
is particularly sad when it is so easy to wake up, to
blink your eyes and breath deeply and really become
aware of life and the world around you in more than a
superficial way. Well, it seems like it should be
easy anyway>>

True that some people have emotional blockage.
But some don't. Some just ARE shallow. The hole within them, if there is
one, is easily filled with a nice entertainment center.

<<It is so sad to us to see people thus living; shallow,
empty, seeking, unsatisfied>>

It's worth considering that there could be TONS of people who are not empty,
not seeking, and who ARE satisfied, but who are not deep, searching or
spiritual.

The problem sometimes is that some of them don't realize there are others who
are deeper and broader than they are.

It's not a gift, being dissatisfied with just a few little ideas and
comforts.

I'd think it would be pretty warm and cushy to really believe in a simple
religion, to love your bed even if it's not objectively a great bed, to be
happy with your food without the whole-body-and-spirit angst and fear about
where it came from and what's in it, to trust doctors without asking
questions, to just be content with what's on TV and to believe what's on the
news and to feel safe because there are policemen on duty.

I want that life.

But lobotomy is not yet an approved elective surgery.

Sandra

Shyrley

On 24 Jul 02, at 14:34, SandraDodd@... wrote:


> True that some people have emotional blockage.
> But some don't. Some just ARE shallow. The hole within them, if
> there is one, is easily filled with a nice entertainment center.

Mine would be filled with a zillion dollars and a nice eco-house in
Oregan.


>>
> I'd think it would be pretty warm and cushy to really believe in a
> simple religion, to love your bed even if it's not objectively a great
> bed, to be happy with your food without the whole-body-and-spirit
> angst and fear about where it came from and what's in it, to trust
> doctors without asking questions, to just be content with what's on TV
> and to believe what's on the news and to feel safe because there are
> policemen on duty.
>
> I want that life.

Don't we all. But we'd have to rid the world of politicians, spend the
next 30 years making life fair and distibuting wealth evenly before
we could rest.
Ignorance definately is bliss. I've been in the green movement and
with Animals rights since I was 14 and in a lot of cases we are still
fighting the same battles - although we are not terrorists rather than
concerned citizens now.
It gets tiring and dispiriting.
In fact. Make me feel better. Everyone lay off one car journey this
week and one beef meal and help save the planet :-)
>
> But lobotomy is not yet an approved elective surgery.

Try opposing the govt and see how fast they recommend one :-)
>
> Sandra
>


Shyrley the rebel


"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."

Tia Leschke

>
>I'd think it would be pretty warm and cushy to really believe in a simple
>religion, to love your bed even if it's not objectively a great bed, to be
>happy with your food without the whole-body-and-spirit angst and fear about
>where it came from and what's in it, to trust doctors without asking
>questions, to just be content with what's on TV and to believe what's on the
>news and to feel safe because there are policemen on duty.
>
>I want that life.

I don't believe you. <g> I believe maybe a small part of you wants it,
but not the rest, not considering the kinds of things you write about.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

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In a message dated 7/24/02 2:57:45 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< I don't believe you. <g> I believe maybe a small part of you wants it,
but not the rest, not considering the kinds of things you write about. >>

I wouldn't be wasting my time writing those kinds of things if I were already
content with the world as it was, though. Nobody would be complaining about
my ideas or my presentation or pretending to boycott conferences if I had
just put my kids in school and waxed my floors and watched soap operas and
made brownies for the bake sale at church. AND I'd be going to heaven.
***Sigh*** how could people NOT just want that?

zenmomma2kids

> My husband and I have talked about and developed a
> theory about folks in general. So many people are
> sleepwalking through life, not truly aware of their
> own feelings, motivations, dreams, passions, talents,
> spirit. They are blind and oblivious to the pulse of
> life, and to their place within that flow. They limit
> themselves with artificial boundaries, don't truly
> connect with other human beings, are defensive and
> small minded in their little fortresses of "reality"
> which they have painstakingly improsoned themselves
> in.

Have you ever seen the movie The Matrix? That's pretty much the
underlying theme there. The first line in the movie is "Wake up, Neo."

Life is good.
~Mary

zenmomma2kids

>> True that some people have emotional blockage.
But some don't. Some just ARE shallow. The hole within them, if
there is one, is easily filled with a nice entertainment center.>>

I don't think are born shallow, though. And I believe everyone has the
capacity to learn and grow. And will learn and grow.

>>It's worth considering that there could be TONS of people who are
not empty, not seeking, and who ARE satisfied, but who are not deep,
searching or spiritual.>>

Or maybe they just aren't spiritual or searching yet. They're so
numbed that they don't even know there's another way. A more
meaningful path. Maybe they're just shallow enough right now to live
their lives with silly little sayings like...

Life is good.
~Mary :o)

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/24/2002 6:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
> Maybe they're just shallow enough right now to live
> their lives with silly little sayings like...
>
> Life is good.
>
Or maybe they're just inspired enough to KNOW that
Life is good.

Kelly :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 7/24/02 4:30:11 PM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< Or maybe they just aren't spiritual or searching yet. They're so
numbed that they don't even know there's another way. A more
meaningful path. >>

Maybe they don't need more meaning. Maybe they are chock full of meaning.

I'm serious. Being needy and searching doesn't seem to be the ideal life on
earth, even though sometimes the by-products are beneficial to others.

Sandra

Sharon Rudd

Didn't Mao try something like that a little while ago?
Sharon of the Swamp

we'd have to rid the world of
> politicians, spend the
> next 30 years making life fair and distibuting
> wealth evenly before
> we could rest.


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Shyrley

On 24 Jul 02, at 18:02, Sharon Rudd wrote:

> Didn't Mao try something like that a little while ago?
> Sharon of the Swamp
>
> we'd have to rid the world of
> > politicians, spend the
> > next 30 years making life fair and distibuting
> > wealth evenly before
> > we could rest.
>
Nope. What he tried was complete social control over every aspect
of their lives. That doesn't work either. People rebel against overt
control. Our society tries a different tact. Its aims are to make you
'think' you have control. We don't really have any access to the
mechanisms that run our society any more.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I'd start with not allowing
corporations any say in how things are. People who WANT power
are the last that should have it!
Maybe those in charge should be like jury service. You don't get a
choice and you get time off for good behaviour :-)

Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."

Shyrley

On 24 Jul 02, at 18:02, Sharon Rudd wrote:

> Didn't Mao try something like that a little while ago?
> Sharon of the Swamp
>
> we'd have to rid the world of
> > politicians, spend the
> > next 30 years making life fair and distibuting
> > wealth evenly before
> > we could rest.
>
Nope. What he tried was complete social control over every aspect
of their lives. That doesn't work either. People rebel against overt
control. Our society tries a different tact. Its aims are to make you
'think' you have control. We don't really have any access to the
mechanisms that run our society any more.
I'm not sure what the answer is but I'd start with not allowing
corporations any say in how things are. People who WANT power
are the last that should have it!
Maybe those in charge should be like jury service. You don't get a
choice and you get time off for good behaviour :-)

Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."

zenmomma *

>>Maybe they don't need more meaning. Maybe they are chock full of
>>meaning.>>

Who are you or I to decide that about someone else? Each one of us is on our
own path. I try not to judge someone else's level of spirituality or
enlightenment. Although I do try to share what I've discovered where
appropriate.

>>I'm serious. Being needy and searching doesn't seem to be the ideal life
>>on earth, even though sometimes the by-products are beneficial to
>>others.>>

I'm serious too. Looking towards different paths, seeking out an
enlightenment for oneself does not have to equal being needy. Just like
there are different timetables for a child learning to read, I believe there
are different timetables for coming to a more enlightened sense of this life
and our world.

Life is good.
~Mary


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In a message dated 7/25/02 8:43:38 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>Maybe they don't need more meaning. Maybe they are chock full of
>>meaning.>>

<<Who are you or I to decide that about someone else? >>

"Maybe." I've used the word "Maybe" with all meaning. It is possible that.
It might be that.

It might be that those who are not searching for more are just fine as they
are.

It's quite likely that that is so, or they'd be searching for more.

The original statement tht started this seemed to imply that some people are
just being, without knowing what they're missing.

Maybe they're not missing anything.

Sandra

[email protected]

>The original statement that started this seemed to imply that some
people are
>just being, without knowing what they're missing.

>Maybe they're not missing anything.

This is my dh. He is not deep, he is not searching he see's no reason to
look for meaning. He IS wonderfully funny, usually happy, loving and
smart and loyal and generous. He believes his one life, lived well or
badly, won't make any difference in a world that will whirl on for eons
after he's gone, and maybe he's right.

Deb L

zenmomma *

>>The original statement tht started this seemed to imply that some people
are just being, without knowing what they're missing.>>

Without knowing that there is any other way perhaps. Without having had the
inclination or maybe just the personal circumstances to be able think more
deeply about things.

>>Maybe they're not missing anything.>>

Maybe. But saying that an entertainment center would fill any hole in some
people's lives just fine, didn't sit right with me. We all have the capacity
for growth. Physically, mentally and spiritually. Some of us are just late
bloomers.

Life is good.
~Mary



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>We all have the capacity
>for growth. Physically, mentally and spiritually. Some of us are just
late
>bloomers.

I think you're right that we all have the capacity... some just don't
have the desire.
They don't see the need for it. My old Auntie thinks any kind of self
reflection or deep thinking or spiritual seeking is an indulgent waste of
precious time that could be spent working. She's 85, still has the
capacity for anything and everything, but sees no point in "personal
growth." ( And I'm not going to argue with her! <g>)

Deb L

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In a message dated 7/25/02 3:48:22 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:

<< I think you're right that we all have the capacity... some just don't
have the desire.
They don't see the need for it. My old Auntie thinks any kind of self
reflection or deep thinking or spiritual seeking is an indulgent waste of
precious time that could be spent working. She's 85, still has the
capacity for anything and everything, but sees no point in "personal
growth." >>

Maybe she has neither of Howard Gardner's "personal
intelligences"--interpersonal or intrapersonal.

Maybe the same way people with great mathematical and verbal intelligences
think that those without them are mentally deficient, not "gifted," not
"smart," that those who have tons of intrapersonal intelligence assume that
those without it pine for it.

I wish everyone had more interpersonal intelligence, but some of my friends
wish I could play volleyball and swim too. We're all so disappointed! <bwg>

I wish all my friends could sing harmonies by ear. They don't.

Sandra

[email protected]

>I wish all my friends could sing harmonies by ear.

My friends really wish I'd stop singing. LOL.
Apparently NOT on of my intelligences. (And not for lack of trying!)

BUT... I can cross one eye and they can't, so neener.

Deb L, perhaps lacking other intelligences as well...