Speaking about radical unschooling at a homeschooling conference
Caroline Lieber
We live in an area which has quite a lot of homeschoolers but only four families that we know of who are radical unschoolers. One of the homeschooling groups is putting on a conference and two of us have committed to a 15 minute radical unschooling workshop. It seemed like a good opportunity to see if there were more families who would join our local group of unschoolers. I am hoping you might have advice about how to approach talking about unschooling at what could be a quite schoolish homeschooling conference.
I feel grateful and quite overwhelmed when I think of how much time Sandra and others spend sharing their understanding of unschooling principles. I have got such a lot from reading here these last 5ish years though I've almost never posted. Thanks as always for your time and wise advice.
Caroline
I feel grateful and quite overwhelmed when I think of how much time Sandra and others spend sharing their understanding of unschooling principles. I have got such a lot from reading here these last 5ish years though I've almost never posted. Thanks as always for your time and wise advice.
Caroline
Sandra Dodd
-=- a 15 minute radical unschooling workshop-=-
Seriously, only 15 minutes?
That doesn’t sound very supportive of unschooling. :-)
I would definitely recommend creating a handout, then, with some links. For barest introduction, maybe give them a link to Amy Childs’ series
http://unschoolingsupport.com
Most of those pages have links to other things, and then you wouldn’t need to give them lots of words, on your hand out. Shorter the better, maybe. Use colored paper if you can so they won’t lose it as easily.
Recommend three links. The one above, and these:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://livingjoyfully.ca
Sorry they’re American and Canada, but they’re also reliably good and accessible.
Maybe add some definitions to that handout. If you don’t settle on creating one you like, you could lift some from here:
http://sandradodd.com/definitions
I hope if you offer a handout that you (nor anyone there) will NOT read aloud from the handout. That’s irritating. :-)
Handouts could be passed out afterwards, too, outside that workshop.
Fifteen minutes is not very long. :-)
But those podcasts Amy did are fifteen minutes, and there’s lots of info in those. But she edited them tightly down, and it would be harder to get that much info in “live” with a group of people.
I hope others here have ideas for a speed-presented workshop. :-) Or maybe a slow workshop with just a very few points. Maybe a questionnaire/worksheet for attendees, to help them think about what they already know.
Sandra
Seriously, only 15 minutes?
That doesn’t sound very supportive of unschooling. :-)
I would definitely recommend creating a handout, then, with some links. For barest introduction, maybe give them a link to Amy Childs’ series
http://unschoolingsupport.com
Most of those pages have links to other things, and then you wouldn’t need to give them lots of words, on your hand out. Shorter the better, maybe. Use colored paper if you can so they won’t lose it as easily.
Recommend three links. The one above, and these:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://livingjoyfully.ca
Sorry they’re American and Canada, but they’re also reliably good and accessible.
Maybe add some definitions to that handout. If you don’t settle on creating one you like, you could lift some from here:
http://sandradodd.com/definitions
I hope if you offer a handout that you (nor anyone there) will NOT read aloud from the handout. That’s irritating. :-)
Handouts could be passed out afterwards, too, outside that workshop.
Fifteen minutes is not very long. :-)
But those podcasts Amy did are fifteen minutes, and there’s lots of info in those. But she edited them tightly down, and it would be harder to get that much info in “live” with a group of people.
I hope others here have ideas for a speed-presented workshop. :-) Or maybe a slow workshop with just a very few points. Maybe a questionnaire/worksheet for attendees, to help them think about what they already know.
Sandra
Sarah Thompson
I went to a small unschooling conference a couple of years ago organized by Laurie Wolfrum. All the presentations/discussions were at least an hour, but there was one that Laurie did that was on the theme of trust. Trust is a core element of unschooling. I think she had people write something on an index card and then they discussed them. You could maybe have a series of little exercises like that, where you leave out the discussion, but give people index cards and have them jot down things on themes like: trust, learning, school, not school, not learning, etc. And the presentation could be a brief discussion of how to use those cards yourself, later, to deepen your thinking about unschooling (based on the intro that you give).
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:50 PM Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:-=- a 15 minute radical unschooling workshop-=-
Seriously, only 15 minutes?
That doesn’t sound very supportive of unschooling. :-)
I would definitely recommend creating a handout, then, with some links. For barest introduction, maybe give them a link to Amy Childs’ series
http://unschoolingsupport.com
Most of those pages have links to other things, and then you wouldn’t need to give them lots of words, on your hand out. Shorter the better, maybe. Use colored paper if you can so they won’t lose it as easily.
Recommend three links. The one above, and these:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://livingjoyfully.ca
Sorry they’re American and Canada, but they’re also reliably good and accessible.
Maybe add some definitions to that handout. If you don’t settle on creating one you like, you could lift some from here:
http://sandradodd.com/definitions
I hope if you offer a handout that you (nor anyone there) will NOT read aloud from the handout. That’s irritating. :-)
Handouts could be passed out afterwards, too, outside that workshop.
Fifteen minutes is not very long. :-)
But those podcasts Amy did are fifteen minutes, and there’s lots of info in those. But she edited them tightly down, and it would be harder to get that much info in “live” with a group of people.
I hope others here have ideas for a speed-presented workshop. :-) Or maybe a slow workshop with just a very few points. Maybe a questionnaire/worksheet for attendees, to help them think about what they already know.
Sandra
Megan Valnes
-=-Maybe add some definitions to that handout.-=-
I'd recommend including something that refers to the famous Doddism: "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, life becomes easier."
Perhaps writing "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, unschooling may be the journey for you."
Or something like that. Work with it a bit. I think that quote is the epitome of unschooling and speaks volumes to what we are all choosing to do as parents.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 14:50 Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
-=- a 15 minute radical unschooling workshop-=-
Seriously, only 15 minutes?
That doesn’t sound very supportive of unschooling. :-)
I would definitely recommend creating a handout, then, with some links. For barest introduction, maybe give them a link to Amy Childs’ series
http://unschoolingsupport.com
Most of those pages have links to other things, and then you wouldn’t need to give them lots of words, on your hand out. Shorter the better, maybe. Use colored paper if you can so they won’t lose it as easily.
Recommend three links. The one above, and these:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://livingjoyfully.ca
Sorry they’re American and Canada, but they’re also reliably good and accessible.
Maybe add some definitions to that handout. If you don’t settle on creating one you like, you could lift some from here:
http://sandradodd.com/definitions
I hope if you offer a handout that you (nor anyone there) will NOT read aloud from the handout. That’s irritating. :-)
Handouts could be passed out afterwards, too, outside that workshop.
Fifteen minutes is not very long. :-)
But those podcasts Amy did are fifteen minutes, and there’s lots of info in those. But she edited them tightly down, and it would be harder to get that much info in “live” with a group of people.
I hope others here have ideas for a speed-presented workshop. :-) Or maybe a slow workshop with just a very few points. Maybe a questionnaire/worksheet for attendees, to help them think about what they already know.
Sandra
--
Warmly,
Megan
*keeping it real since 1981*
Megan
*keeping it real since 1981*
Sandra Dodd
Here are some questions I’ve used in workshops, but not all of them at once, I don’t think.
Think of three people you know who have university degrees “that they don’t use” (meaning that they make a living doing something different).
Think of three people you know who are successful but don’t have university educations.
Think of something you do very well that you learned informally, or figured out on your own.
Think of something you “were taught” and that you learned (recited back, or passed a test on) that you have No Idea how to do today.
Don’t write these down, but think secretly of poorer friends/acquaintances/relatives who are happy, and richer people who are not as happy.
Think of exciting things you might not have known, or seen, or heard, without the internet.
Think of someone who said or did something, in your past, tha cause you to be the type of parent you have become now. If there was a departure from the way you might otherwise have been, what inspired the change?
___________________
They don’t need to write them down, and it’s probably better NOT to, but thinking of those things and maybe discussing them later, on the way home, or at dinner with friends… it will shake up and shake loose some things they already know.
Sandra
Think of three people you know who have university degrees “that they don’t use” (meaning that they make a living doing something different).
Think of three people you know who are successful but don’t have university educations.
Think of something you do very well that you learned informally, or figured out on your own.
Think of something you “were taught” and that you learned (recited back, or passed a test on) that you have No Idea how to do today.
Don’t write these down, but think secretly of poorer friends/acquaintances/relatives who are happy, and richer people who are not as happy.
Think of exciting things you might not have known, or seen, or heard, without the internet.
Think of someone who said or did something, in your past, tha cause you to be the type of parent you have become now. If there was a departure from the way you might otherwise have been, what inspired the change?
___________________
They don’t need to write them down, and it’s probably better NOT to, but thinking of those things and maybe discussing them later, on the way home, or at dinner with friends… it will shake up and shake loose some things they already know.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-
I think that quote is the epitome of unschooling and speaks volumes to what we are all choosing to do as parents.
-=-
Thank you!
Then if someone chooses to use that quote, quote it. Use my name. Don’t mess with it, or it’s not a quote anymore. :-)
A place to find it is at JustAddLightandStir and then search for “vision,”
Oh. That didn’t work very well. About ten posts came up with the word “vision.” Well good. That won’t hurt anybody.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-important-is-your-child.html
Or buy magnets and read it off your refrigerator. :-)
http://sandradodd.com/magnets
(or just go and print out that Just Add Light and put THAT on your fridge).
Sandra
I think that quote is the epitome of unschooling and speaks volumes to what we are all choosing to do as parents.
-=-
Thank you!
Then if someone chooses to use that quote, quote it. Use my name. Don’t mess with it, or it’s not a quote anymore. :-)
A place to find it is at JustAddLightandStir and then search for “vision,”
Oh. That didn’t work very well. About ten posts came up with the word “vision.” Well good. That won’t hurt anybody.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-important-is-your-child.html
Or buy magnets and read it off your refrigerator. :-)
http://sandradodd.com/magnets
(or just go and print out that Just Add Light and put THAT on your fridge).
Sandra
carolinelieber@...
Thank you so much for your help preparing for the workshop. We did it yesterday. There was really a lot of interest. 15 minutes was impossibly short but we did make a flyer as you suggested and collected contacts to work toward another dedicated gathering.
There was a lot of talk at the conference about food sensitivities affecting behaviour. It came up in the workshop too: that restlessness and difficulty concentrating (also anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) was a result of eating certain foods. I said that my kids know from experience how different foods make them feel and that they choose what they eat based on that. It didn't seem to be a sufficient answer... my youngest child is pretty bouncy and also sometimes anxious. I thought that was normal for a 7 year old.... or would she feel more relaxed and happy if she ate differently? How do you think about this from an unschooling perspective?
Caroline
There was a lot of talk at the conference about food sensitivities affecting behaviour. It came up in the workshop too: that restlessness and difficulty concentrating (also anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) was a result of eating certain foods. I said that my kids know from experience how different foods make them feel and that they choose what they eat based on that. It didn't seem to be a sufficient answer... my youngest child is pretty bouncy and also sometimes anxious. I thought that was normal for a 7 year old.... or would she feel more relaxed and happy if she ate differently? How do you think about this from an unschooling perspective?
Caroline
Sandra Dodd
-=-my youngest child is pretty bouncy and also sometimes anxious. I thought that was normal for a 7 year old.... or would she feel more relaxed and happy if she ate differently? How do you think about this from an unschooling perspective?-=-
You already know the unschooling perspective, but consider the logical perspective.
Holly and I both get headaches, and get cranky, if we miss protein for a couple of meals. Keith, Marty and Kirby don’t. The solution is to remember to get protein before too long.
But there are people who take that to such a level that they blame food for EVERYthing, and anything, and that’s not logical. It’s not sensible. It’s an attempt at control, and magic.
Magic and control aren’t where learning come from. And making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built.
Another problem is that people are used to parents controlling childrne’s diets to the point that they give them a plate of food they didn’t choose, and “make” them eat it all. Some of you remember that from childhood. :-) I hope few of you have tried to do that to your own children.
The term “the empty plate club” goes with that. Talking’ about “glass half full” or glass half empty, “empty plate” is supposed to be the ideal, the success, but it sounds… empty.
That’s why I called my food page “The full plate club.” A child with a full plate who is not forced to eat ANY of it will have more peace than a child forced to eat the perfect meal intended to cause him to be peaceful.
There is a video that’s funny, but that does capture the ideas kids internalize from hearing all of this. The best part is right at the end.
https://youtu.be/_zyDPBsRqaM
This has a story from a mom who… well I’ll quote the first part here and you can go there to read the rest:
"I am certified to teach prenatal and family nutrition classes. I don't teach anymore because I can't in good concious now that I've experienced life from a radical unschooling perspective.”
http://sandradodd.com/foodfear/
The iea of sacrificing something (sugar, kid-foods) to obtain a benefit (creativity, calm) is superstition if it’s minor, or relgion if it’s major. And there ARE people making diet their religion. I’m going to quote myself:
____________
As with other magical sacrifices some people make to become "good parents," some parents prohibit sugar. I've seen very bad things come of that. And as magic, it doesn't work any better than the magical sacrifice of plastic toys, or of TV, or of video games, or of wearing clothes with logos on them. Those are lame attempts at magically assuring that a child will be peaceful or healthy or creative. What they tend more often to do is give children reason to be sneaky, and depending on the parental presentation or justification of the restrictions, can help the child learn early on that the parents aren't as bright as they would like.
______________
http://sandradodd.com/eating/idea
Sandra
You already know the unschooling perspective, but consider the logical perspective.
Holly and I both get headaches, and get cranky, if we miss protein for a couple of meals. Keith, Marty and Kirby don’t. The solution is to remember to get protein before too long.
But there are people who take that to such a level that they blame food for EVERYthing, and anything, and that’s not logical. It’s not sensible. It’s an attempt at control, and magic.
Magic and control aren’t where learning come from. And making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built.
Another problem is that people are used to parents controlling childrne’s diets to the point that they give them a plate of food they didn’t choose, and “make” them eat it all. Some of you remember that from childhood. :-) I hope few of you have tried to do that to your own children.
The term “the empty plate club” goes with that. Talking’ about “glass half full” or glass half empty, “empty plate” is supposed to be the ideal, the success, but it sounds… empty.
That’s why I called my food page “The full plate club.” A child with a full plate who is not forced to eat ANY of it will have more peace than a child forced to eat the perfect meal intended to cause him to be peaceful.
There is a video that’s funny, but that does capture the ideas kids internalize from hearing all of this. The best part is right at the end.
https://youtu.be/_zyDPBsRqaM
This has a story from a mom who… well I’ll quote the first part here and you can go there to read the rest:
"I am certified to teach prenatal and family nutrition classes. I don't teach anymore because I can't in good concious now that I've experienced life from a radical unschooling perspective.”
http://sandradodd.com/foodfear/
The iea of sacrificing something (sugar, kid-foods) to obtain a benefit (creativity, calm) is superstition if it’s minor, or relgion if it’s major. And there ARE people making diet their religion. I’m going to quote myself:
____________
As with other magical sacrifices some people make to become "good parents," some parents prohibit sugar. I've seen very bad things come of that. And as magic, it doesn't work any better than the magical sacrifice of plastic toys, or of TV, or of video games, or of wearing clothes with logos on them. Those are lame attempts at magically assuring that a child will be peaceful or healthy or creative. What they tend more often to do is give children reason to be sneaky, and depending on the parental presentation or justification of the restrictions, can help the child learn early on that the parents aren't as bright as they would like.
______________
http://sandradodd.com/eating/idea
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
I want to clarify a minor point about the video I linked in another post:
There is a video that’s funny, but that does capture the ideas kids internalize from hearing all of this. The best part is right at the end.
https://youtu.be/_zyDPBsRqaM
______________
“Circus peanuts.”
These are not peanuts. It’s an American candy from my grandparents’ days (and I’m 64 years old). They were sold in bulk (unpackaged) as some candy still is here and there. They’re a bit like the fried egg sweets in Europe, but bigger, and more dry. And maybe not like that, but a little bit.
Circus peanuts are the size of a big thumb:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_peanut
They’re not very good.
For others… the “fried eggs” are fried-egg looking (but not tasting) candies the size of a thumbnail that look like…. oh, here. https://www.aquarterof.co.uk/haribo-fried-eggs.html
Hey, “Barrett’s Shrimps” look a bit like circus peanuts.
All of these surely are great sins in most food religions.
Try not to turn food into virtue or sin, if you can avoid it.
Sandra
P.S.
Sorry I don’t know which if any of these are a problem in Australia.
There is a video that’s funny, but that does capture the ideas kids internalize from hearing all of this. The best part is right at the end.
https://youtu.be/_zyDPBsRqaM
______________
“Circus peanuts.”
These are not peanuts. It’s an American candy from my grandparents’ days (and I’m 64 years old). They were sold in bulk (unpackaged) as some candy still is here and there. They’re a bit like the fried egg sweets in Europe, but bigger, and more dry. And maybe not like that, but a little bit.
Circus peanuts are the size of a big thumb:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_peanut
They’re not very good.
For others… the “fried eggs” are fried-egg looking (but not tasting) candies the size of a thumbnail that look like…. oh, here. https://www.aquarterof.co.uk/haribo-fried-eggs.html
Hey, “Barrett’s Shrimps” look a bit like circus peanuts.
All of these surely are great sins in most food religions.
Try not to turn food into virtue or sin, if you can avoid it.
Sandra
P.S.
Sorry I don’t know which if any of these are a problem in Australia.
carolinelieber@...
I laughed until I cried over that video...
I think the Australian equivalent to circus peanuts might be teeth lollies... or maybe bananas which are dry rather than chewy
I think the Australian equivalent to circus peanuts might be teeth lollies... or maybe bananas which are dry rather than chewy
carolinelieber@...
One speaker was very clear that her child's anxious and obsessive/compulsive behaviour stopped after he changed his diet (the whole family changed their diet to support him). She also said that he didn't have to do his schoolwork while he focused on getting better. So maybe it was the lack of stress about the schoolwork rather than diet which helped him.
I recognise how easily sugar/food colouring/screens can get blamed for kids being "hyperactive"... but it's hard to say anything to a person who thinks their child has a named nervous/psychological condition caused by food.
I like the idea that the placebo/nocebo effect could be positive or useful. But there doesn't seem to be any room for fabricating ideas to encourage a desired outcome.
"... making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built."
I recognise how easily sugar/food colouring/screens can get blamed for kids being "hyperactive"... but it's hard to say anything to a person who thinks their child has a named nervous/psychological condition caused by food.
I like the idea that the placebo/nocebo effect could be positive or useful. But there doesn't seem to be any room for fabricating ideas to encourage a desired outcome.
"... making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built."
Sandra Dodd
Caroline, I don’t know why your post got cut off a bit.
I had cut and pasted the end, though, before I approved it, so here it was:
I like the idea that the placebo/nocebo effect could be positive or useful. But there doesn't seem to be any room for fabricating ideas to encourage a desired outcome.
"... making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built.”
_____________
I don’t understand what you meant, but I did have the end of the quote.
I don’t tink the parents fabricated ideas. I think the parents believed claims and have hope and trust in something that might not be true.
If a child is limited and shamed about something that turns out not to have been true, it’s frustrating. I was one of those kids. A doctor told my mom, because of a rash I used to get, not to let me wear nylon, or eat chocolate. Those restrictions stayed for YEARS, and my life wasn’t fun, but my mom felt like she was doing a good thing. As I got older, and she got less interested in controlling me, the chocolate I was already buying at school with my own money wasn’t hurting, wasn’t causing a rash. The nylons I started wearing as a teen didn’t cause a rash. I had been deprived for no good reason.
And nowadays parents on their own without doctors go just CRAZY to avoid gluten or some other chosen “toxin” and they change their lives around it and other people tell them they’re wonderful.
If their claims turn out not to be true, it can cause more damage than a peanut butter sandwich ever could.
It’s been a few years since a statement like that would cause a frenzy, but there might be a person or two here whose fingers are twitching to say that if this or that child had a peanut butter sandwich he would DIE.
I suppose there are some people who homeschool for dietary reasons, to keep their kids away from school lunch rooms or other situations where the might opt to try something “toxic.”
Sandra
I had cut and pasted the end, though, before I approved it, so here it was:
I like the idea that the placebo/nocebo effect could be positive or useful. But there doesn't seem to be any room for fabricating ideas to encourage a desired outcome.
"... making claims to children that aren’t true is not where trust is built.”
_____________
I don’t understand what you meant, but I did have the end of the quote.
I don’t tink the parents fabricated ideas. I think the parents believed claims and have hope and trust in something that might not be true.
If a child is limited and shamed about something that turns out not to have been true, it’s frustrating. I was one of those kids. A doctor told my mom, because of a rash I used to get, not to let me wear nylon, or eat chocolate. Those restrictions stayed for YEARS, and my life wasn’t fun, but my mom felt like she was doing a good thing. As I got older, and she got less interested in controlling me, the chocolate I was already buying at school with my own money wasn’t hurting, wasn’t causing a rash. The nylons I started wearing as a teen didn’t cause a rash. I had been deprived for no good reason.
And nowadays parents on their own without doctors go just CRAZY to avoid gluten or some other chosen “toxin” and they change their lives around it and other people tell them they’re wonderful.
If their claims turn out not to be true, it can cause more damage than a peanut butter sandwich ever could.
It’s been a few years since a statement like that would cause a frenzy, but there might be a person or two here whose fingers are twitching to say that if this or that child had a peanut butter sandwich he would DIE.
I suppose there are some people who homeschool for dietary reasons, to keep their kids away from school lunch rooms or other situations where the might opt to try something “toxic.”
Sandra
Sarah Thompson
This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies?
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
-=-This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies? -=-
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
There’s a name for a parent wanting a child to be sick, or to have something wrong with them. In the past (long ago) some parents even made their children sick on purpose, I have read.
-=-Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies?-=-
The problem with this question is…
IS there an increasing number?
It might not be the only problem with the question, but it’s one. :-)
Sandra
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
There’s a name for a parent wanting a child to be sick, or to have something wrong with them. In the past (long ago) some parents even made their children sick on purpose, I have read.
-=-Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies?-=-
The problem with this question is…
IS there an increasing number?
It might not be the only problem with the question, but it’s one. :-)
Sandra
Sarah Thompson
You might be thinking of Munchausen's by proxy.
The CDC says there is a statistical increase. As I am only forty, I don't have much to compare the current situation to, although I don't remember it being an issue when I was a kid. I do know several children who have been hospitalized due to reactions to foods, but I'm not sure whether that was happening among my peer group and I just didn't know about it. My parents never mentioned it.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 4:56 PM Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:-=-This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies? -=-
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
There’s a name for a parent wanting a child to be sick, or to have something wrong with them. In the past (long ago) some parents even made their children sick on purpose, I have read.
-=-Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies?-=-
The problem with this question is…
IS there an increasing number?
It might not be the only problem with the question, but it’s one. :-)
Sandra
Jo Isaac
==This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic
food allergies? ==
Some parents like to find things that make their kids seem 'special' or 'different' or that they can complain about on social media.
I bet that the rise of incidence of what people are calling allergies is similar to people claiming their kids are ADHD, on the spectrum, dyslexic, dysgraphic, 2 E and all manner of other 'conditions' they get to brag/complain/both about.
Many of those Moms probably claim their kids has multiple of those things (I know a few who do!).
My kid has proper, real, allergies that sprung up from nowhere when he was 6. One day he was fine eating prawns and calamari, the next...not so much! He's never had a true anaphylactic reaction, but close enough that they gave us an epipen.
But most people don't know that. Even his Nana forgets, because it just isn't that big a deal to avoid shellfish and we don't talk about it. And we don't want to make it a big deal. In fact in the past year he's tried both mussles, oysters and calamari, and seems fine with the two former, but still reacts to even the teeniest bit of calamari. But it gives us hope he might eventually grow out of all of it.
Jo
Some parents like to find things that make their kids seem 'special' or 'different' or that they can complain about on social media.
I bet that the rise of incidence of what people are calling allergies is similar to people claiming their kids are ADHD, on the spectrum, dyslexic, dysgraphic, 2 E and all manner of other 'conditions' they get to brag/complain/both about.
Many of those Moms probably claim their kids has multiple of those things (I know a few who do!).
My kid has proper, real, allergies that sprung up from nowhere when he was 6. One day he was fine eating prawns and calamari, the next...not so much! He's never had a true anaphylactic reaction, but close enough that they gave us an epipen.
But most people don't know that. Even his Nana forgets, because it just isn't that big a deal to avoid shellfish and we don't talk about it. And we don't want to make it a big deal. In fact in the past year he's tried both mussles, oysters and calamari, and seems fine with the two former, but still reacts to even the teeniest bit of calamari. But it gives us hope he might eventually grow out of all of it.
Jo
.
Shira Rocklin
=-This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies? -=-
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
-----------
Sandra, are you including parents who get further testing done that corroborates a seriously life threatening allergy? I can understand this about people believing kids have sensitivities to certain foods. Sensitivity is not as easy to test or prove. But anaphylaxis (IGE mediated allergy) is diagnosed by confirming via scratch or blood testing after a reaction occurs, followed by food challenges if the tests do not concur with the suspected allergen. If the tests are positive, they are retaken yearly in childhood to see if there is a reduction in reactivity (smaller welts or lower blood test numbers) to see if a child is outgrowing it, followed by food challenges. These measures seem fairly objective to me. Are you saying that people are being overdiagosed, misdiagnosed, self-diagnosing, or? Are there parents who believe their child has anaphylaxis but do not follow up with tests and go through life without Epipens ready, and really their child has no allergy at all?
All the best, Shira
--
Shira Rocklin
Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis Instructor
Jo Isaac
==are you including parents who get further testing done that corroborates a seriously life threatening allergy?==
I didn't see anyone, Sandra included, saying that life threatening allergies don't exist.
I, personally, have seen and read of parents saying that a child has a gluten 'allergy' because they got a stomach ache once. That isn't an allergy. It's probably not even intolerance. I've seen parents control and limit food on the basis of such incidents
- telling their kid 'you are allergic to bread' - when they most certainly are not. I've also seen people say things like their kid has an 'allergy' to dairy, when they are maybe lactose intolerant.
Intolerance is not an allergy. I am intolerant to too many prawns - I can eat them once, and i'm fine. If I eat them again the next day, I get bloated, and sometimes I'm sick. My son is allergic to prawns, though - he immediately gets hives, his tongue swells,
he gets stomach pains, and vomits, at the smallest amount. My husband is allergic to peanuts. We are well aware of allergies and the testing procedures at our house :)
The scratch tests of the past DID show a lot of false positives. The blood tests of today are much more specific and less false positives.
My son has chosen not to be tested in recent years, and seems to be growing out of some of his shellfish allergies - the molluscs, at least. So it's not a drama, and it might not even be forever.
Jo
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Shira Rocklin sj.rocklin@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
Sent: 01 September 2017 04:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Speaking about radical unschooling at a homeschooling conference
Sent: 01 September 2017 04:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Speaking about radical unschooling at a homeschooling conference
=-This is an honest question, I'm not being smug or sideways. Do you think there is a psychological factor
from parents that is generating the increasing incidence of anaphylactic food allergies? -=-
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident
as a life-threatening horror.
-----------
Sandra, are you including parents who get further testing done that corroborates a seriously life threatening
allergy? I can understand this about people believing kids have sensitivities to certain foods. Sensitivity is not as easy to test or prove. But anaphylaxis (IGE mediated allergy) is diagnosed by confirming via scratch or blood testing after a reaction
occurs, followed by food challenges if the tests do not concur with the suspected allergen. If the tests are positive, they are retaken yearly in childhood to see if there is a reduction in reactivity (smaller welts or lower blood test numbers) to see if
a child is outgrowing it, followed by food challenges. These measures seem fairly objective to me. Are you saying that people are being overdiagosed, misdiagnosed, self-diagnosing, or? Are there parents who believe their child has anaphylaxis but do not
follow up with tests and go through life without Epipens ready, and really their child has no allergy at all?
All the best, Shira
--
Shira Rocklin
Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis Instructor
www.RadiantBirth.ca
 |
www.radiantbirth.ca
WHAT IS HYPNOBABIES®? A successful 6 week, 3 hours per week, complete childbirth education course. Learn more by clicking the link above!
|
|
carolinelieber@...
Sorry I had too many things going on and I posted that message before I had finished it. I was thinking about the placebo effect s a kind of "real magic" but I'm not sure the idea is really useful.
Caroline
Caroline
Sandra Dodd
This isn’t an honest question. This is an antagonistic challenge (and it was followed by a full-color advertisement, which is even MORE irritating):
-=-These measures seem fairly objective to me. Are you saying that people are being overdiagosed, misdiagnosed, self-diagnosing, or? Are there parents who believe their child has anaphylaxis but do not follow up with tests and go through life without Epipens ready, and really their child has no allergy at all? -=-
I said what I meant.
The rhetorical use of “So are you saying that…” is, in the context of this group, an insult. I understand that people get defensive.
Anyone who wants to use the group as it’s intended—to discuss radical unschooling—is welcome to stick around and do that. I have not been dishonest in my knowledge that there are moms who lie, and who wish their children had more “conditions” and restrictions and labels, because the cool moms have kids with so many special requirements and needs.
It makes me embarrassed to be female sometimes, honestly, because it’s such a girly/social thing to compare martyrdom, and how many times the mother’s controlling limitations has “save the child’s LIFE.”
So am I saying that NO mother has EVER saved a child’s life?
No, but I could feel that question welling up in some people a thousand miles away. :-)
"Being a mother is SO HARD, and I REALLY CARE about my child’s health, and I would NEVER ever just guess about something that I could pay good money to prove was dangerous….” can lead the admirers of such a good mom who don’t have the money to buy a disability or life-threatening condition to figure “better safe than sorry” and jump in, too.
I wish I had never seen anyone do it, or never heard anyone confess later to having done it.
Why are we discussing it here? The question was about foods causing behaviors.
Unschooling attracts off-topic side issues because it does. Some people are unschooling because they’re afraid of something or other, or avoiding something or over, or because it seems cool or they were drawn by the term “radical.” I like to think that any one of them, or every one of them, could move beyond that to honestly understanding and flowing into unschooling for the learning and peace and togetherness and HONESTY that can come from and with it.
Anyone who’s here for the audience, to share their advertisement with a large group, or to snark at me must surely have other better places to be and better ways to spend time and energy.
I could summarize it lots of ways, but here’s one:
Some people are full of shit.
Try not to be full of shit.
Sandra
-=-These measures seem fairly objective to me. Are you saying that people are being overdiagosed, misdiagnosed, self-diagnosing, or? Are there parents who believe their child has anaphylaxis but do not follow up with tests and go through life without Epipens ready, and really their child has no allergy at all? -=-
I said what I meant.
The rhetorical use of “So are you saying that…” is, in the context of this group, an insult. I understand that people get defensive.
Anyone who wants to use the group as it’s intended—to discuss radical unschooling—is welcome to stick around and do that. I have not been dishonest in my knowledge that there are moms who lie, and who wish their children had more “conditions” and restrictions and labels, because the cool moms have kids with so many special requirements and needs.
It makes me embarrassed to be female sometimes, honestly, because it’s such a girly/social thing to compare martyrdom, and how many times the mother’s controlling limitations has “save the child’s LIFE.”
So am I saying that NO mother has EVER saved a child’s life?
No, but I could feel that question welling up in some people a thousand miles away. :-)
"Being a mother is SO HARD, and I REALLY CARE about my child’s health, and I would NEVER ever just guess about something that I could pay good money to prove was dangerous….” can lead the admirers of such a good mom who don’t have the money to buy a disability or life-threatening condition to figure “better safe than sorry” and jump in, too.
I wish I had never seen anyone do it, or never heard anyone confess later to having done it.
Why are we discussing it here? The question was about foods causing behaviors.
Unschooling attracts off-topic side issues because it does. Some people are unschooling because they’re afraid of something or other, or avoiding something or over, or because it seems cool or they were drawn by the term “radical.” I like to think that any one of them, or every one of them, could move beyond that to honestly understanding and flowing into unschooling for the learning and peace and togetherness and HONESTY that can come from and with it.
Anyone who’s here for the audience, to share their advertisement with a large group, or to snark at me must surely have other better places to be and better ways to spend time and energy.
I could summarize it lots of ways, but here’s one:
Some people are full of shit.
Try not to be full of shit.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
I don’t know.
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
-----------
Sandra, are you including parents who get further testing done that corroborates a seriously life threatening allergy?
__________________________________
“I do know that there are parents who…” did not include all parents, and I believe the person who commented knew that, so the comment is irritating.
I know there are drivers who don’t wear their seatbelts.
“Are you including drivers who wear their seatbelts?”
No.
I know there are dogs with only three legs.
“Are you including dogs with four legs?”
NO. Seriously.
I know some people inadvertently ask an irritating question.
“Are you including people who purposely ask antagonistic questions hoping to prove a point, or out of argumentative habit?”
No, then it’s not inadvertent.
Let’s use language clearly, if possible, and read it clearly without kneejerk defense and without the intent to disrupt, subvert or grandstand.
Thanks.
Sandra
I do know that there are parents who claim allergies that children do not have, or describe a minor incident as a life-threatening horror.
-----------
Sandra, are you including parents who get further testing done that corroborates a seriously life threatening allergy?
__________________________________
“I do know that there are parents who…” did not include all parents, and I believe the person who commented knew that, so the comment is irritating.
I know there are drivers who don’t wear their seatbelts.
“Are you including drivers who wear their seatbelts?”
No.
I know there are dogs with only three legs.
“Are you including dogs with four legs?”
NO. Seriously.
I know some people inadvertently ask an irritating question.
“Are you including people who purposely ask antagonistic questions hoping to prove a point, or out of argumentative habit?”
No, then it’s not inadvertent.
Let’s use language clearly, if possible, and read it clearly without kneejerk defense and without the intent to disrupt, subvert or grandstand.
Thanks.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Yes, and I knew the name, but I was hoping to cause people to think about it (realizing they knew about it, or hadn’t heard of it).
I’m glad you named it, but that’s why I didn’t, originally. :-)
-=-You might be thinking of Munchausen's by proxy.-=-
I’m glad you named it, but that’s why I didn’t, originally. :-)
-=-You might be thinking of Munchausen's by proxy.-=-
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was thinking about the placebo effect s a kind of "real magic" but I'm not sure the idea is really useful. -=-
Some parents used to recommend spray bottles of water, to help kids cleanse their rooms of imagined monsters under the bed, or ghosts in closets. They would call it monster spray or some such, and go into the child’s room before bedtime and spray for monsters.
If it was done in fun, I doubt it’s going to traumatize anyone, but some parents might have taken the details too far.
In medical and psychological tests, the subjects usually clearly know that they may or may not be receiving the substance/material/“right” response. No one is trying to trick them.
If "the placebo effect s a kind of "real magic” is intended to refer to a child feeling better because a mother keeps him from having gluten, maybe he would like the extra attention, or maybe the mother would be nicer to him if she felt like he was defective, but that wouldn’t be “magic,” would it?
Maybe I’ve misunderstood the question. Clarifications or reminders would be good. I’m at a conference and so a bit scattery and overwhelmed with ideas flying in and out and past.
Sandra
Some parents used to recommend spray bottles of water, to help kids cleanse their rooms of imagined monsters under the bed, or ghosts in closets. They would call it monster spray or some such, and go into the child’s room before bedtime and spray for monsters.
If it was done in fun, I doubt it’s going to traumatize anyone, but some parents might have taken the details too far.
In medical and psychological tests, the subjects usually clearly know that they may or may not be receiving the substance/material/“right” response. No one is trying to trick them.
If "the placebo effect s a kind of "real magic” is intended to refer to a child feeling better because a mother keeps him from having gluten, maybe he would like the extra attention, or maybe the mother would be nicer to him if she felt like he was defective, but that wouldn’t be “magic,” would it?
Maybe I’ve misunderstood the question. Clarifications or reminders would be good. I’m at a conference and so a bit scattery and overwhelmed with ideas flying in and out and past.
Sandra
Sarah Thompson
I asked the original question about anaphylaxis because I do think it has a bearing on unschooling successfully. I have observed mothers of children with serious allergies wreck opportunities for their children because of their own identification with it, and obsession over it. Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?
My children don't have allergies. But when I am offering support to families in my community who do deal with those issues, and want to unschool, it feels positive and powerful to know that the families don't have to limit themselves in partnering with their kids just because of serious allergies.
So thank you for the couple of responses on this topic. It is useful food for thought.
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?
-=-
Could the mom’s hyper-vigilance BE the stressor?
I don’t know what the statistics really are, but it seems sometimes that 1 person in 100 has a problem but the parents of ten or fifteen of them claim a problem.
It becomes a sort of boy-who-cried-‘wolf’ situation, where others don’t take any claims seriously. There’s a good article about that from the point of view of a restaurant, about people who claim allergies during the main courses, and then order something that they claimed to be allergic to for dessert. But it can also be that parents who (for whatever reason) are excessively understanding and accommodating to all of those examples of 10 to 15 people claiming deadly allergies, then it reinforces that being in that “Woe is We” corner is a cool place to be.
There are people who request kosher meals on airplanes and aren’t Jewish. They’ve heard that food might be more carefully or individually prepared, and they want whatever is more rarified and special, maybe.
If all the advantage is to the moms (attention, permission to control/limit even when others aren’t, approval from other such moms, camaraderie) and the disadvantage is to the children (limitations, lack of choice and movement, can’t visit friends, is talked about as though he’s not there and his “allergy” is more important to the mom than his interest in Minecraft or whatever it might be)… this isn’t so different, then, than some other mainstream kinds of parenting.
Sandra
Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?
-=-
Could the mom’s hyper-vigilance BE the stressor?
I don’t know what the statistics really are, but it seems sometimes that 1 person in 100 has a problem but the parents of ten or fifteen of them claim a problem.
It becomes a sort of boy-who-cried-‘wolf’ situation, where others don’t take any claims seriously. There’s a good article about that from the point of view of a restaurant, about people who claim allergies during the main courses, and then order something that they claimed to be allergic to for dessert. But it can also be that parents who (for whatever reason) are excessively understanding and accommodating to all of those examples of 10 to 15 people claiming deadly allergies, then it reinforces that being in that “Woe is We” corner is a cool place to be.
There are people who request kosher meals on airplanes and aren’t Jewish. They’ve heard that food might be more carefully or individually prepared, and they want whatever is more rarified and special, maybe.
If all the advantage is to the moms (attention, permission to control/limit even when others aren’t, approval from other such moms, camaraderie) and the disadvantage is to the children (limitations, lack of choice and movement, can’t visit friends, is talked about as though he’s not there and his “allergy” is more important to the mom than his interest in Minecraft or whatever it might be)… this isn’t so different, then, than some other mainstream kinds of parenting.
Sandra
Katie
-=-
Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?
-=-
---Could the mom’s hyper-vigilance BE the stressor?---
I don't know the statistics on a situation like this, but I can guarantee it does happen, because it happened to me. I have developed quite a few new allergies as an adult (mostly nasal), on top of the allergies (mostly skin-related) I had as a child. About 10 or 15 years ago, I developed an allergy to scented laundry and cleaning products, where I would sneeze and have typical itchy eyes, runny nose, headache, etc., if I was in contact with them for too long. I switched to unscented detergents and after a while, for some reason, the sensitivity subsided a bit. However, in the meantime, I had begun asking my children to go into the cleaning products aisle at the grocery store for me, or holding my breath while I grabbed what I needed, if I was alone. I thought nothing of it until I realized, maybe many years later, that if I even glanced down the cleaning aisle as I walked by, my heart would begin to pound and beat rapidly and my chest would tighten, making it difficult to breathe. Initially I thought my sensitivity was worsening, but I later realized it was primarily my anxiety about potential symptoms that was actually causing them. It had gone from holding my breath to barely being able to take a breath in. Even now, when I walk into a cleaning aisle I can feel the tightness and rapid heartbeat return, but I remind myself to breathe slowly and calmly and I can get the things I need and leave the aisle and be ok. I still have some sensitivity to scented cleaning products, but it's harder to determine now how much is allergy and how much is anxiety.
As another example, my brother-in-law is allergic to peanuts in an anaphalaxis sort of way, and though he never carried an epi-pen, he claims he learned early on that he didn't like the taste of peanuts and would avoid it naturally or put down a food item if it smelled like or seemed like it would have peanuts in it, so he says he avoided most reactions by 'preference'. When my niece and nephew were born, their doctor advised them not to give their kids peanuts at all until they were some age, maybe 3 or 5 or so, in case they might be allergic. When their son, who is a somewhat picky eater anyway, claimed he didn't like peanut butter, they assumed that must mean he was allergic, like his dad, and they avoided having peanuts in their house at all until very recently, when a doctor confirmed he wasn't actually allergic at all. He's 7 or 8 now. My sister would squirrel away Peanut Butter Cap'n Crunch cereal and eat peanut butter out of a jar with a spoon only when she was away from home and wasn't going to come in contact with her kids, who turned out to not have needed all that protection anyway.
-Katie
Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?
-=-
---Could the mom’s hyper-vigilance BE the stressor?---
I don't know the statistics on a situation like this, but I can guarantee it does happen, because it happened to me. I have developed quite a few new allergies as an adult (mostly nasal), on top of the allergies (mostly skin-related) I had as a child. About 10 or 15 years ago, I developed an allergy to scented laundry and cleaning products, where I would sneeze and have typical itchy eyes, runny nose, headache, etc., if I was in contact with them for too long. I switched to unscented detergents and after a while, for some reason, the sensitivity subsided a bit. However, in the meantime, I had begun asking my children to go into the cleaning products aisle at the grocery store for me, or holding my breath while I grabbed what I needed, if I was alone. I thought nothing of it until I realized, maybe many years later, that if I even glanced down the cleaning aisle as I walked by, my heart would begin to pound and beat rapidly and my chest would tighten, making it difficult to breathe. Initially I thought my sensitivity was worsening, but I later realized it was primarily my anxiety about potential symptoms that was actually causing them. It had gone from holding my breath to barely being able to take a breath in. Even now, when I walk into a cleaning aisle I can feel the tightness and rapid heartbeat return, but I remind myself to breathe slowly and calmly and I can get the things I need and leave the aisle and be ok. I still have some sensitivity to scented cleaning products, but it's harder to determine now how much is allergy and how much is anxiety.
As another example, my brother-in-law is allergic to peanuts in an anaphalaxis sort of way, and though he never carried an epi-pen, he claims he learned early on that he didn't like the taste of peanuts and would avoid it naturally or put down a food item if it smelled like or seemed like it would have peanuts in it, so he says he avoided most reactions by 'preference'. When my niece and nephew were born, their doctor advised them not to give their kids peanuts at all until they were some age, maybe 3 or 5 or so, in case they might be allergic. When their son, who is a somewhat picky eater anyway, claimed he didn't like peanut butter, they assumed that must mean he was allergic, like his dad, and they avoided having peanuts in their house at all until very recently, when a doctor confirmed he wasn't actually allergic at all. He's 7 or 8 now. My sister would squirrel away Peanut Butter Cap'n Crunch cereal and eat peanut butter out of a jar with a spoon only when she was away from home and wasn't going to come in contact with her kids, who turned out to not have needed all that protection anyway.
-Katie
Sandra Dodd
I had an apology on the side, with the option to bring it here.
Private apologies for public offenses has always struck me as wrong. This one wasn’t “an offense” so much as a DEfense, but still…
________________
Sandra,
I apologize sincerely. You are right, I did have a knee-jerk reaction. My son has, over his few years, has developed many new allergies, been in hospital, needed epinephrin, and I read what you wrote through a lens of fear and fear of judgement, that others might think I'm fabricating what's happened, or being too vigilant over allergen exposure, etc... Perhaps though unschooling isn't new to me anymore, allergies are, and I didn't realize I am still mentally chewing over 'unschooling and living with serious allergies.'
I was confused about the 'blatent advertising' until I realized I have a signature that attaches to my emails and I truly forgot about it.
I left off posting this to the group as it doesn't further the unschooling discussion (I think), but you may if you wish.
I hope you have an easy week.
Shira
_________________________________________
Had this group been a different sort of group, it could have turned into a melee about allergies, but we kept it about unschooling. Good.
In general, about being defensive and offended, though it might not apply to Shira’s response, I have this:
http://sandradodd.com/offended
Learning about ideas shouldn’t be about personal discomfort. The personal discomfort can be informative to the person having the defensive response, and IF principles of unschooling are being forgotten or disregarded, then it’s good to challenge it, or ask for clarification. That’s fine.
Sandra
Private apologies for public offenses has always struck me as wrong. This one wasn’t “an offense” so much as a DEfense, but still…
________________
Sandra,
I apologize sincerely. You are right, I did have a knee-jerk reaction. My son has, over his few years, has developed many new allergies, been in hospital, needed epinephrin, and I read what you wrote through a lens of fear and fear of judgement, that others might think I'm fabricating what's happened, or being too vigilant over allergen exposure, etc... Perhaps though unschooling isn't new to me anymore, allergies are, and I didn't realize I am still mentally chewing over 'unschooling and living with serious allergies.'
I was confused about the 'blatent advertising' until I realized I have a signature that attaches to my emails and I truly forgot about it.
I left off posting this to the group as it doesn't further the unschooling discussion (I think), but you may if you wish.
I hope you have an easy week.
Shira
_________________________________________
Had this group been a different sort of group, it could have turned into a melee about allergies, but we kept it about unschooling. Good.
In general, about being defensive and offended, though it might not apply to Shira’s response, I have this:
http://sandradodd.com/offended
Learning about ideas shouldn’t be about personal discomfort. The personal discomfort can be informative to the person having the defensive response, and IF principles of unschooling are being forgotten or disregarded, then it’s good to challenge it, or ask for clarification. That’s fine.
Sandra
Connie
Sorry for the belated response, but I thought it relevant to mention that there's a lot of recent neuroscience research that links stress and inflammation, which likely makes the allergies worse.
https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/news/2016/03/chronic-stress-causes-brain-inflammation-memory-loss is one example.
I think that the range of responses to interaction within a family is a lot more complex and subtle than we even imagine.
Connie.
https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/news/2016/03/chronic-stress-causes-brain-inflammation-memory-loss is one example.
I think that the range of responses to interaction within a family is a lot more complex and subtle than we even imagine.
Connie.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Sarah Thompson thompsonisland@... [AlwaysLearning]"
Sent: Sep 1, 2017 5:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Speaking about radical unschooling at a homeschooling conference
I asked the original question about anaphylaxis because I do think it has a bearing on unschooling successfully. I have observed mothers of children with serious allergies wreck opportunities for their children because of their own identification with it, and obsession over it. Knowing a number of children with that type of allergies, and seeing the different ways families deal with it, has made me curious as to whether the mom's state of mind about it could actually pressure the child to develop symptoms more frequently. Not full-blown anaphylaxis, but the tingling and chest-tightness that can precede it - could a child be so conditioned to be hyper-alert to these sensations that they might will them into existence in stressful situations?My children don't have allergies. But when I am offering support to families in my community who do deal with those issues, and want to unschool, it feels positive and powerful to know that the families don't have to limit themselves in partnering with their kids just because of serious allergies.So thank you for the couple of responses on this topic. It is useful food for thought.Sarah
Sandra Dodd
Connie wrote:
____________
I thought it relevant to mention that there's a lot of recent neuroscience research that links stress and inflammation, which likely makes the allergies worse.
https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/news/2016/03/chronic-stress-causes-brain-inflammation-memory-loss is one example.
I think that the range of responses to interaction within a family is a lot more complex and subtle than we even imagine.
_____________
Pressure (emotional pressure) can cause physical (inflammation) pressure.
It’s frustrating to see situations in which a mom assures the child that he’s alive BECAUSE the mother is dilligent, and it’s so much work for her to BE dilligent, and so on.
It’s good when unschooling becomes a priority, and calm and choices enter the picture (or take a better seat) and the relationship can be relaxed. Stress and inflammation and allergies and self-righteousness and paranoia are all pretty much the opposite of the security and calm needed for learning to happen easily and naturally.
Thanks for bringing that link, Connie.
Sandra
____________
I thought it relevant to mention that there's a lot of recent neuroscience research that links stress and inflammation, which likely makes the allergies worse.
https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/news/2016/03/chronic-stress-causes-brain-inflammation-memory-loss is one example.
I think that the range of responses to interaction within a family is a lot more complex and subtle than we even imagine.
_____________
Pressure (emotional pressure) can cause physical (inflammation) pressure.
It’s frustrating to see situations in which a mom assures the child that he’s alive BECAUSE the mother is dilligent, and it’s so much work for her to BE dilligent, and so on.
It’s good when unschooling becomes a priority, and calm and choices enter the picture (or take a better seat) and the relationship can be relaxed. Stress and inflammation and allergies and self-righteousness and paranoia are all pretty much the opposite of the security and calm needed for learning to happen easily and naturally.
Thanks for bringing that link, Connie.
Sandra