School curious (part 2)?
Tori Bart
Hello,
I apologise in advance for any lack of coherence (I'll try my best); we've had a bereavement in my family and I've been struggling to order my mind to help my youngest daughter, H with a particular need she has. I would very much appreciate some advice in this regard.
H has just turned 11 years old, has never been to school, only kindergarten and a friendly local playgroup. We've been living following the philosophies of unschooling with both our daughters (eldest is 13 years old) since I first saw and met Sandra in Covent Garden, London at a conference. Around 6 years now I think. Our eldest thrives beautifully seemingly in her own steady tempo rhythm. Happy and content as she often tells me.
H, I sensed, was frustrated about something. When I gently asked her, a while ago now, if she's ok? She spoke of her own want to see what school was like. She went on to tell me she wants a locker like they have in the movies based in schools, she wanted to put her hand up to answer a question and that's it! At that time we were in the middle of moving so couldn't organise anything because we didn't know what area we'd buy in. Instead she liked the idea of a local private school of 6 children per class which she did for several months until her interest wained. Now we've moved and settled, she wants to try the local big school (high-school in US?).
Again she mentioned just trying it because local children she plays with go there and she wants to play with them, have a locker (of which there are none in that school) and she wants me to be a strict Mummy and make her do the test papers. Big sigh... that last bit is just not me. I called the school (which is an Academy) and spoke with the Deputy Head about a space for H. I was very positive and cheery in my tone and requested advice on how to go about this, yet I was met with a heavy and suspicious manner from this lady. She was profoundly ignorant about home education, considering her position, constantly requiring confirmation over and over again that H had "...never EVER been to school? Not even in a CLASSROOM?" (I've highlighted those words as she spoke them like that) And does my Home Education 'body of people' know about this? I was determined to remain level, steady and cheerful because if H does get a place there it's important to have a good relationship with the school. She then insisted she take my daughter's full name and date of birth. I gave her a fictitious one but kept the birth year the same so she could give me relevant information for her age.
She eventually informed me that their classes are already over subscribed and they're ploughing through a waiting list of admission applications. We've missed the deadline for a place and so H will have to apply in October 2017 for a place in September 2018. Plenty of time for us to help H get to the test level that she'd need to since she has no records from a primary/junior school, which is what this lady said she'd need. She told me that H would be ..."plonked in a classroom and tested...". Now excuse me for now not having the confidence in this school. Here comes the negative bit: I personally know several teachers from the school who have taken early retirement. The school is renowned for serious bullying, violence, drug use and generally unliked by many parents and students. The older more experienced teachers appear to be leaving en mass as stress and risk of violence to them are taking its toll.
H currently hugely enjoys her gaming, watching youtubers, weekly agricultural farming, Scouts, two drama groups and sailing. She goes to bed no earlier than 1am and wakes when she's had enough sleep.
A teacher friend gave me this year's copy of SATS test. The UK compulsory test for children of H's age transitioning from junior to secondary school. It's for H to work through to help her see what will be expected of her by the time she goes in to school. To date H has shown no interest in doing it. I have offered to sit with her and go through it together or for me to organise an exam-condition environment (local library) so she can see what it would be like.
I really am at a loss as to what to do. I can't "...be strict" as she wants me to be to "...make her do the tests". We've joked around doing it like that but her concentration is that of a butterfly and she's very physical at the table; her bottom literally does not sit on the chair, so we end up playing and not doing the work books. The school is far from ideal anyway. There are no other schools locally that wouldn't involve having a serious logistical impact on the rest of the family.
It feels as though she's really wanting some structure? Yet that seems almost incongruous knowing her rythym and nature. She's such a creative, funny, confident, kind, lovely girl. I'm really not convinced she wants it that much? How can I fulful these two needs for each of my daughters? What am I doing wrong? I'd truly appreciate your kind views, thoughts and ideas.
Warmest Regards
VicXX
Sandra Dodd
-=-I really am at a loss as to what to do. I can't "...be strict" as she wants me to be to "...make her do the tests". -=-
When Holly was little, maybe 6 or 7, she wanted to “do school at home,” so I got her a folder, and asked her what subjects, and she mostly wanted recess and “a surprise lunch.”
We set up a little table and chair, and I gave her an assignment and then sat and read a book, or said “I’ll be right back, stay in your seat,” and went to do something in the next room. She never lasted long, never finished an exercise, but then would say “I want recess now!”
She did like the surprise lunches. I put food in lunch box for her—we had lunch boxes because the kids used them to store toys, cards, pogs…
For three or four mornings we started, because she wanted to, and each “school day” was shorter.
-=-We've joked around doing it like that but her concentration is that of a butterfly and she's very physical at the table; her bottom literally does not sit on the chair, so we end up playing and not doing the work books. The school is far from ideal anyway. There are no other schools locally that wouldn't involve having a serious logistical impact on the rest of the family.-=-
Is the bereavement such that it could be a reason to wait?
Could she visit the school for a day or two? If she has a friend there, maybe, possibly?
Buy a small set of lockers, maybe. Get locks for them. Let each child have one; you have one. They could store off-season stuff—swim goggles in winter, or gloves and caps in summer, maybe. Maybe.
Some kids I’ve known have been appeased by owning a lunch box and riding a bus. Shuttle busses for special events can seem like school buses.
But maybe being in classes—dance, drama, art, photography, gymnastics—could satisfy her urge for structure, assignments, requirements, special clothing, and saying “My teacher’s name is….” And being around and competing a bit with other kids.
Don’t worry about the application yet, though. Relax about it and more clarity might come.
And other things might happen to help the problem dissolve on its own.
Sandra
When Holly was little, maybe 6 or 7, she wanted to “do school at home,” so I got her a folder, and asked her what subjects, and she mostly wanted recess and “a surprise lunch.”
We set up a little table and chair, and I gave her an assignment and then sat and read a book, or said “I’ll be right back, stay in your seat,” and went to do something in the next room. She never lasted long, never finished an exercise, but then would say “I want recess now!”
She did like the surprise lunches. I put food in lunch box for her—we had lunch boxes because the kids used them to store toys, cards, pogs…
For three or four mornings we started, because she wanted to, and each “school day” was shorter.
-=-We've joked around doing it like that but her concentration is that of a butterfly and she's very physical at the table; her bottom literally does not sit on the chair, so we end up playing and not doing the work books. The school is far from ideal anyway. There are no other schools locally that wouldn't involve having a serious logistical impact on the rest of the family.-=-
Is the bereavement such that it could be a reason to wait?
Could she visit the school for a day or two? If she has a friend there, maybe, possibly?
Buy a small set of lockers, maybe. Get locks for them. Let each child have one; you have one. They could store off-season stuff—swim goggles in winter, or gloves and caps in summer, maybe. Maybe.
Some kids I’ve known have been appeased by owning a lunch box and riding a bus. Shuttle busses for special events can seem like school buses.
But maybe being in classes—dance, drama, art, photography, gymnastics—could satisfy her urge for structure, assignments, requirements, special clothing, and saying “My teacher’s name is….” And being around and competing a bit with other kids.
Don’t worry about the application yet, though. Relax about it and more clarity might come.
And other things might happen to help the problem dissolve on its own.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Oh, sorry. I missed the drama group mention before.
-=-H currently hugely enjoys her gaming, watching youtubers, weekly agricultural farming, Scouts, two drama groups and sailing. -=-
If possible, could you schedule a family trip during the school term so that she sees the place without so many people as would be there otherwise? Shorter lines at an amusement park, or better seats at some sort of theatrical event?
Sandra
-=-H currently hugely enjoys her gaming, watching youtubers, weekly agricultural farming, Scouts, two drama groups and sailing. -=-
If possible, could you schedule a family trip during the school term so that she sees the place without so many people as would be there otherwise? Shorter lines at an amusement park, or better seats at some sort of theatrical event?
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Vic, you don’t need to answer any of my irritating questions.
I’ve just realized that my last two posts should have said “If you could… it might..” but I distractedly and awkwardly was saying “Could you do this?”
It’s none of my business, and you don’t need to clarify. Sorry.
Sandra
I’ve just realized that my last two posts should have said “If you could… it might..” but I distractedly and awkwardly was saying “Could you do this?”
It’s none of my business, and you don’t need to clarify. Sorry.
Sandra
Eve Kelleher
Hi Vic,
Are you based in the UK? If so, there is the nationwide 'INTO FILM' festival in November which is a great resource and if your daughter is looking for more structure the website has lot of 'resources' to tie-in with the films shown at the festival..All screenings and downloads are free. You seldom see school trips there as the red tape to get school kids out on trips these days is so difficult for schools to navigate so as Sandra suggested, it is an opportunity to experience things she would miss if in school.
If she wants classes, what about online ones such as - http://carlasonheim.com/2017-kids-art-week-free/
Kind wishes,
Eve
On 17 July 2017 at 17:40, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:Vic, you don’t need to answer any of my irritating questions.
I’ve just realized that my last two posts should have said “If you could… it might..” but I distractedly and awkwardly was saying “Could you do this?”
It’s none of my business, and you don’t need to clarify. Sorry.
Sandra
Rinelle
Do you have any friends or relatives that are teachers, and might be able to arrange a day visit for her? My mum managed to arrange one at the school she used to teach at for my daughter when she was 7. That was enough to satisfy her curiosity. Even if you have to travel, an opportunity like that might be enough for her to feel like she’s had that experience.
Tamara
Belinda D
Hi Vic,
I am also in the UK and when my daughter was in year 6 (10/11) many of her friends were already at or going to ‘big school’. She was jealous and curious and really wanted to be part of the gang. She had concrete reasons to want to go, such as doing science in a lab, doing hockey in a team, doing drama productions. But also the feeling that she was ‘missing out’ on a sort of girls’ Enid Blyton-style adventure of camaraderie I think.
I decided to treat it like any other unschooling interest and support her in it, enable it as best we could, as we could see that she was really serious about trying it. After a term of mainly stress and disappointment and boredom she had had enough! But since then has been much more relaxed, really appreciating her life at home, and the wonderful friends she actually already had. And has since also found the courage to join clubs and groups outside school to do all the things she thought she needed school for.
I can say the the only school near us that was an option was open and friendly but still put my daughter through masses of tests when she got there - they actually tested everyone so she wasn’t alone but she was unused to the process and the tests were long and formal (CAT scores?). They also assumed she had need of educational support when she didn’t - put her in ‘extra reading’ sessions etc. I had to watch them like a hawk and they were clearly unused to my level of parental input!
I was relieved when she quit, I have to say, though I didn’t tell her so. I wanted the decision to be carefully thought out and I helped her do that. It was stressful dealing with the system and took a lot of time and energy. However, I can definitely say she was happier and more relaxed at home afterwards and that she was proud of herself. She feels it’s a feather in her cap...
It sounds like your daughter is interested in school for more ephemeral reasons. I totally get that it’s impossible to ‘impose discipline’ on her in a pretend way. She knows it’s a game. It would need to come from an external source - we have local parents running key stage 3 study groups etc. for home schoolers that we don’t use - but would that sort of thing help? studying - anything - in a group? My daughter does love to feel ‘studious’ and take notes etc. But not with me!!!
I can see why you want to avoid the ‘experiment’ that we did as the school sounds unwelcoming. It does sound like her life is full, and happy. I’m not sure if she would be able to realise without experiencing it, how much that will be restricted by school. You could see if she wants to try getting up at 7am every day and being out of the house by 8, for a week, as a starting point? Maybe two columns on a piece of paper of things that school will give her vs things that school will make it difficult to do might help? But all in a spirit of exploration and partnership rather than ‘talking her out of it’.
Belinda
I am also in the UK and when my daughter was in year 6 (10/11) many of her friends were already at or going to ‘big school’. She was jealous and curious and really wanted to be part of the gang. She had concrete reasons to want to go, such as doing science in a lab, doing hockey in a team, doing drama productions. But also the feeling that she was ‘missing out’ on a sort of girls’ Enid Blyton-style adventure of camaraderie I think.
I decided to treat it like any other unschooling interest and support her in it, enable it as best we could, as we could see that she was really serious about trying it. After a term of mainly stress and disappointment and boredom she had had enough! But since then has been much more relaxed, really appreciating her life at home, and the wonderful friends she actually already had. And has since also found the courage to join clubs and groups outside school to do all the things she thought she needed school for.
I can say the the only school near us that was an option was open and friendly but still put my daughter through masses of tests when she got there - they actually tested everyone so she wasn’t alone but she was unused to the process and the tests were long and formal (CAT scores?). They also assumed she had need of educational support when she didn’t - put her in ‘extra reading’ sessions etc. I had to watch them like a hawk and they were clearly unused to my level of parental input!
I was relieved when she quit, I have to say, though I didn’t tell her so. I wanted the decision to be carefully thought out and I helped her do that. It was stressful dealing with the system and took a lot of time and energy. However, I can definitely say she was happier and more relaxed at home afterwards and that she was proud of herself. She feels it’s a feather in her cap...
It sounds like your daughter is interested in school for more ephemeral reasons. I totally get that it’s impossible to ‘impose discipline’ on her in a pretend way. She knows it’s a game. It would need to come from an external source - we have local parents running key stage 3 study groups etc. for home schoolers that we don’t use - but would that sort of thing help? studying - anything - in a group? My daughter does love to feel ‘studious’ and take notes etc. But not with me!!!
I can see why you want to avoid the ‘experiment’ that we did as the school sounds unwelcoming. It does sound like her life is full, and happy. I’m not sure if she would be able to realise without experiencing it, how much that will be restricted by school. You could see if she wants to try getting up at 7am every day and being out of the house by 8, for a week, as a starting point? Maybe two columns on a piece of paper of things that school will give her vs things that school will make it difficult to do might help? But all in a spirit of exploration and partnership rather than ‘talking her out of it’.
Belinda
sukaynalabboun@...
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On Jul 19, 2017, at 7:24 PM, Belinda D belinda.dutch@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
I can see why you want to avoid the ‘experiment’ that we did as the school sounds unwelcoming. It does sound like her life is full, and happy. I’m not sure if she would be able to realise without experiencing it, how much that will be restricted by school.
Mine were in school for a while before we decided to unschool, and they've told me they are much happier this way and that I shouldn't feel bad or regret having sent them. They say they know what it was and aren't envious of school kids, and they're glad they had that experience....This might help, if she decides to go, to calm your nerves when you worry- she might need that to appreciate having a choice.