Creating abundance
goyette.christine@...
I have a question about facilitating abundance.
In the past few months my son (4 1/2) has gone from barely interested in toys to happy & appreciative to now expecting and really, really wanting (one could see it as demanding) toys on a daily basis. I could really use some clarity. It seems like I want a rule of some kind. "Make a budget and let him know he can spend $x every day or week." Or something like that. But that would be arbitrary somehow. We are not poor (not rich either). Money comes in. But it's unpredictable as my husband is self-employed. This month could be twice as much as last month and next month just half as much etc. And there is a whole bunch of debt too from events 10 years ago. We ourselves don't have a budget. It's more like "Eeks, it's tight right now. Let's be more cautious" or "Yay! it's going well. We can afford that."
I'm not even sure how much I am spending on toys every week. Maybe it's less than it feels like. I'd say my son gets a toy every day on average. So maybe $300 a month?
The reason it's become a problem for me is that it's no longer sweet and happy when he gets toys but there are tears if it's not the right kind of surprise or if it's only one toy and not many. For example, one day I brought him home a toy from a show (Blaze) he was really into. Instead of happy he was disappointed because he really wanted the 2 toys from Dinotrux (a show he also likes) that were still missing from the set. So a day later, I was really excited when I spotted both of them at a store!! I bring them home and instead of the shared excitement that he now has the last 2 as well, he cries and says that it's not a good surprise if it isn't a Blaze character (the kind I brought him 2 days prior)!! Other days he's unhappy because it's only 1 toy. "When I get one you have to bring me 2 or 3 or 4!!!"
It used to be fun getting him most of the stuff he wanted or trying to hunt it down used and cheaper. But now it often doesn't seem enough or not good enough. The other day when I was so excited to have found the last two and it ended up such a miserable experience, it felt like too much and I had thoughts that he was ungrateful and how could he be crying if he is getting something and that other kids would be happy to get a fraction of the toys he's getting and that this toy buying would take a break for a while because it wasn't any fun anymore etc. etc. Unfortunately, not all was kept as quiet thoughts in my head. :(
I know there is definitely stuff from my past. I grew up with gifts for Christmas and birthday (which happened to be the following day) and maybe one for Easter and some on our summer vacation. But I have changed my thoughts/preferences a lot during the past 2 years. I'd rather have little stuff myself and I am not happy about the cluttering and mess but I am breathing a lot and I am genuinely happy for him. I really want him to feel abundant.
But with this latest development I am not happy. Is it just a phase and normal for a 4 year old? Or did I create this somehow?
Maybe I should keep buying him as much as possible? With credit cards it's so hard to say we can't afford that. Because we could. I would sometimes buy something that probably should wait and then I don't. Or last weekend we had to call the ambulance and then go to the ER with my son. We have terrible insurance. So we've paid about $600 so far (not sure what the total bill will be yet). There is no "we can't afford that". Of course, we somehow do. That's where a lot of my unclarity comes from.
The other day he wanted to go to the toy store and I said "Ok, I got $10 to spend." And then I put him into a shopping cart and we went up and down the aisles. At first, he wanted to get the first somewhat interesting toy he saw (like it's happened before where I wasn't sure he really was all that interested. And sure enough there were often tears later that he didn't really want that toy and that he wanted something else now). And so I encouraged him to take it into his cart and look at it closely or play with it some more or really check it out. So lots of going back and fourth and into and out of the cart until he was pretty sure he'd found something he wanted. Then he kept it in his cart for the time it took to get the rest of the groceries/things I needed. I checked with him again and offered to go back to the toy section but he was still happy with his choice. That experience felt really good. I was relaxed because I wasn't going to spend an amount I wasn't comfortable with or having to say no and also that he wouldn't regret the purchase very soon and wanted to go back. At the same time the $10 budget did seem somewhat arbitrary. And I was also thinking having a budget feels less abundant than having no limitations if they weren't necessary. It's kind of like if I knew after keeping this rate of purchases up and really rode it out that he would get to a point where he's filled up and then it goes back to a more affordable level. Like a burst of expenses that really accomplishes the goal of feeling abundance instead of trickling money and never really getting to that feeling of abundance.
I also tried thrift stores but it doesn't seem about just getting something. It needs to be right thing. Which totally makes sense to me. He would pick something there but in his book those purchases wouldn't really count. He'd still want what he really wanted.
Thank you for helping me get some clarity and more happiness for both of us around this topic.
Christine
In the past few months my son (4 1/2) has gone from barely interested in toys to happy & appreciative to now expecting and really, really wanting (one could see it as demanding) toys on a daily basis. I could really use some clarity. It seems like I want a rule of some kind. "Make a budget and let him know he can spend $x every day or week." Or something like that. But that would be arbitrary somehow. We are not poor (not rich either). Money comes in. But it's unpredictable as my husband is self-employed. This month could be twice as much as last month and next month just half as much etc. And there is a whole bunch of debt too from events 10 years ago. We ourselves don't have a budget. It's more like "Eeks, it's tight right now. Let's be more cautious" or "Yay! it's going well. We can afford that."
I'm not even sure how much I am spending on toys every week. Maybe it's less than it feels like. I'd say my son gets a toy every day on average. So maybe $300 a month?
The reason it's become a problem for me is that it's no longer sweet and happy when he gets toys but there are tears if it's not the right kind of surprise or if it's only one toy and not many. For example, one day I brought him home a toy from a show (Blaze) he was really into. Instead of happy he was disappointed because he really wanted the 2 toys from Dinotrux (a show he also likes) that were still missing from the set. So a day later, I was really excited when I spotted both of them at a store!! I bring them home and instead of the shared excitement that he now has the last 2 as well, he cries and says that it's not a good surprise if it isn't a Blaze character (the kind I brought him 2 days prior)!! Other days he's unhappy because it's only 1 toy. "When I get one you have to bring me 2 or 3 or 4!!!"
It used to be fun getting him most of the stuff he wanted or trying to hunt it down used and cheaper. But now it often doesn't seem enough or not good enough. The other day when I was so excited to have found the last two and it ended up such a miserable experience, it felt like too much and I had thoughts that he was ungrateful and how could he be crying if he is getting something and that other kids would be happy to get a fraction of the toys he's getting and that this toy buying would take a break for a while because it wasn't any fun anymore etc. etc. Unfortunately, not all was kept as quiet thoughts in my head. :(
I know there is definitely stuff from my past. I grew up with gifts for Christmas and birthday (which happened to be the following day) and maybe one for Easter and some on our summer vacation. But I have changed my thoughts/preferences a lot during the past 2 years. I'd rather have little stuff myself and I am not happy about the cluttering and mess but I am breathing a lot and I am genuinely happy for him. I really want him to feel abundant.
But with this latest development I am not happy. Is it just a phase and normal for a 4 year old? Or did I create this somehow?
Maybe I should keep buying him as much as possible? With credit cards it's so hard to say we can't afford that. Because we could. I would sometimes buy something that probably should wait and then I don't. Or last weekend we had to call the ambulance and then go to the ER with my son. We have terrible insurance. So we've paid about $600 so far (not sure what the total bill will be yet). There is no "we can't afford that". Of course, we somehow do. That's where a lot of my unclarity comes from.
The other day he wanted to go to the toy store and I said "Ok, I got $10 to spend." And then I put him into a shopping cart and we went up and down the aisles. At first, he wanted to get the first somewhat interesting toy he saw (like it's happened before where I wasn't sure he really was all that interested. And sure enough there were often tears later that he didn't really want that toy and that he wanted something else now). And so I encouraged him to take it into his cart and look at it closely or play with it some more or really check it out. So lots of going back and fourth and into and out of the cart until he was pretty sure he'd found something he wanted. Then he kept it in his cart for the time it took to get the rest of the groceries/things I needed. I checked with him again and offered to go back to the toy section but he was still happy with his choice. That experience felt really good. I was relaxed because I wasn't going to spend an amount I wasn't comfortable with or having to say no and also that he wouldn't regret the purchase very soon and wanted to go back. At the same time the $10 budget did seem somewhat arbitrary. And I was also thinking having a budget feels less abundant than having no limitations if they weren't necessary. It's kind of like if I knew after keeping this rate of purchases up and really rode it out that he would get to a point where he's filled up and then it goes back to a more affordable level. Like a burst of expenses that really accomplishes the goal of feeling abundance instead of trickling money and never really getting to that feeling of abundance.
I also tried thrift stores but it doesn't seem about just getting something. It needs to be right thing. Which totally makes sense to me. He would pick something there but in his book those purchases wouldn't really count. He'd still want what he really wanted.
Thank you for helping me get some clarity and more happiness for both of us around this topic.
Christine
Sandra Dodd
-=-"Make a budget and let him know he can spend $x every day or week.”-=-
I wouldn’t do that. You might want to buy something for him for some reason. He might want a bunch of stuff you don’t think is worth the cost.
Maybe give him an allowance, and help him save a bit, or spend it carefully each week.
http://sandradodd.com/math/allowance
Four is probably too young for him to understand that, or to count money. So maybe it’s not a good idea yet, but you might want to read the page for ideas anyway, and for its links to other pages involving money (I think there are a couple).
-=-The reason it's become a problem for me is that it's no longer sweet and happy when he gets toys but there are tears if it's not the right kind of surprise -=-
If what you’re doing is causing tears and unhappiness, stop doing it.
It’s possible he would rather have you play with him (with the toys he already has, or with other things) instead of just handing him more and more toys. A toy a day is 365 a year (plus whatever he would get as gifts)—I doubt your house will hold all that. Slow down and think.
-=-I really want him to feel abundant.
But with this latest development I am not happy. -=-
Then neither one of you is happy. Say so—not punitively, but matter of factly. Maybe say that you don’t like to give him toys he cries about.
-=-Is it just a phase and normal for a 4 year old? Or did I create this somehow? -=-
Be careful about “just”—if it’s a phase, it’s a big one that could be handled better.
In a partnership like this one with a four-year-old you’re the more mature one. :-)
-=-Maybe I should keep buying him as much as possible? With credit cards it's so hard to say we can't afford that-=-
Borrowing money to buy toys doesn’t seem like a great plan. If you’re able to pay your credit card off every month, that’s different.
-=-It's kind of like if I knew after keeping this rate of purchases up and really rode it out that he would get to a point where he's filled up and then it goes back to a more affordable level. Like a burst of expenses that really accomplishes the goal of feeling abundance instead of trickling money and never really getting to that feeling of abundance. -=-
Could be. And surely the older he gets and the more he understands about money and time and life and storage, the better a partner HE will be in the whole situation.
-=-I also tried thrift stores but it doesn't seem about just getting something. It needs to be right thing. Which totally makes sense to me. He would pick something there but in his book those purchases wouldn't really count. He'd still want what he really wanted. -=-
ALARM BELL!!
“wouldn’t really count”?
Is he counting, or are you?
Figure of speech, I know. You could dismiss this and say “figure of speech,” but there is this: Freudian slip. When you use a term related to what you’re talking about, it can be subconsciously clueful. :-)
For kids who want particular “collect the whole set” items, it might be good to keep a list, with details, of what’s wanted. A wish list on Amazon, or a list in your phone or on the refrigerator or in a notebook with printouts, photos…. Lots of families have had fun with those sorts of things. And sometimes they might find one in a thrift store (depending what it is). When Holly was collecting My Little Ponies from ten years before, sometimes a very exciting thrift store find would pop up. Luckily, in a way, she was collecting them between production phases, so there were no new ones when she was young.
Other ideas for younger children, so that he’s not always thinking about a toy, or needing a toy to make him feel abundance, might be found here:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
More things in his life that don’t involve toy play could enrich it!
There was a chat on abundance and finances recently and the transcript is here:
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/02/abundance-february-11-2016.html
Sandra
I wouldn’t do that. You might want to buy something for him for some reason. He might want a bunch of stuff you don’t think is worth the cost.
Maybe give him an allowance, and help him save a bit, or spend it carefully each week.
http://sandradodd.com/math/allowance
Four is probably too young for him to understand that, or to count money. So maybe it’s not a good idea yet, but you might want to read the page for ideas anyway, and for its links to other pages involving money (I think there are a couple).
-=-The reason it's become a problem for me is that it's no longer sweet and happy when he gets toys but there are tears if it's not the right kind of surprise -=-
If what you’re doing is causing tears and unhappiness, stop doing it.
It’s possible he would rather have you play with him (with the toys he already has, or with other things) instead of just handing him more and more toys. A toy a day is 365 a year (plus whatever he would get as gifts)—I doubt your house will hold all that. Slow down and think.
-=-I really want him to feel abundant.
But with this latest development I am not happy. -=-
Then neither one of you is happy. Say so—not punitively, but matter of factly. Maybe say that you don’t like to give him toys he cries about.
-=-Is it just a phase and normal for a 4 year old? Or did I create this somehow? -=-
Be careful about “just”—if it’s a phase, it’s a big one that could be handled better.
In a partnership like this one with a four-year-old you’re the more mature one. :-)
-=-Maybe I should keep buying him as much as possible? With credit cards it's so hard to say we can't afford that-=-
Borrowing money to buy toys doesn’t seem like a great plan. If you’re able to pay your credit card off every month, that’s different.
-=-It's kind of like if I knew after keeping this rate of purchases up and really rode it out that he would get to a point where he's filled up and then it goes back to a more affordable level. Like a burst of expenses that really accomplishes the goal of feeling abundance instead of trickling money and never really getting to that feeling of abundance. -=-
Could be. And surely the older he gets and the more he understands about money and time and life and storage, the better a partner HE will be in the whole situation.
-=-I also tried thrift stores but it doesn't seem about just getting something. It needs to be right thing. Which totally makes sense to me. He would pick something there but in his book those purchases wouldn't really count. He'd still want what he really wanted. -=-
ALARM BELL!!
“wouldn’t really count”?
Is he counting, or are you?
Figure of speech, I know. You could dismiss this and say “figure of speech,” but there is this: Freudian slip. When you use a term related to what you’re talking about, it can be subconsciously clueful. :-)
For kids who want particular “collect the whole set” items, it might be good to keep a list, with details, of what’s wanted. A wish list on Amazon, or a list in your phone or on the refrigerator or in a notebook with printouts, photos…. Lots of families have had fun with those sorts of things. And sometimes they might find one in a thrift store (depending what it is). When Holly was collecting My Little Ponies from ten years before, sometimes a very exciting thrift store find would pop up. Luckily, in a way, she was collecting them between production phases, so there were no new ones when she was young.
Other ideas for younger children, so that he’s not always thinking about a toy, or needing a toy to make him feel abundance, might be found here:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
More things in his life that don’t involve toy play could enrich it!
There was a chat on abundance and finances recently and the transcript is here:
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/02/abundance-february-11-2016.html
Sandra
Cass Kotrba
-=- So a day later, I was really excited when I spotted both of them at a store!! I bring them home and instead of the shared excitement that he now has the last 2 as well, he cries and says that it's not a good surprise if it isn't a Blaze character -=-
![]()
![]()
Maybe for him the experience is about more than the having of the item. Perhaps he felt disappointed that he missed out on going with you. He missed the process of finding them, choosing, waiting in the check out line, etc.
-=- "When I get one you have to bring me 2 or 3 or 4!!!" -=-
-=- "When I get one you have to bring me 2 or 3 or 4!!!" -=-
It sounds like he is feeling like he needs to fill his metaphorical "cup" and right now material things are the only or easiest or most reliable way he knows of to get that filled up feeling. The problem with filling up an emotional need with material items is that the feeling doesn't last and ends up feeling like a hollow and empty substitute for whatever emotional need is causing his cup to feel empty. Focus on finding other ways of filling his cup.
Doing stuff with and being with Mom is an awesome cup filler. Feeling like he is helpful and valuable to you. That you enjoy spending time with him. A warm loving look and smile can go a long way in filling a cup. It sounds like he is looking to you to help him fill him up but the only thing he knows to ask for is more toys.
Have you introduced him to the wonderful world of Minecraft? Playing on a PC is preferable to a gaming console because the possibilities are almost endless. If he wants "more" he can get it with the click of a button! He can see the ideas in his head come to life! I can imagine that might be a powerful feeling for a 4 year old. You could watch "how to" videos together, play together or have separate accounts and play separately together as well as him having the ability to play independently when he wants. If Minecraft isn't his thing, help him search for other interesting games or activities that fill him up.
Does he have access to a tablet or other device for watching videos and playing aps? A $20 itunes card can buy a lot of aps and abundance.
-Cass
.
Sandra Dodd
-=-It sounds like he is feeling like he needs to fill his metaphorical "cup" and right now material things are the only or easiest or most reliable way he knows of to get that filled up feeling. The problem with filling up an emotional need with material items is that the feeling doesn't last and ends up feeling like a hollow and empty substitute for whatever emotional need is causing his cup to feel empty. Focus on finding other ways of filling his cup.-=-
The “doesn’t last” reminded me of this, which might also be helpful.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
Maybe finding new ways to play with the toys he already has (or to set the up in tableaux, or to photograph them) would be enjoyable. Look for things that are enjoyable for both of you.
Sandra
The “doesn’t last” reminded me of this, which might also be helpful.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
Maybe finding new ways to play with the toys he already has (or to set the up in tableaux, or to photograph them) would be enjoyable. Look for things that are enjoyable for both of you.
Sandra
semajrak@...
<<But with this latest development I am not happy.>>
When I was a young girl, my dad used to work in an ice cream factory. Every week he'd bring home two big brown paper bags filled with random ice cream made and boxed in the factory that week. Some I liked and some I didn't. But the thing I now remember more than which ice cream bars were in those bags, was how that bag was delivered to me. I can still see my dad, arms full, posture strong, face smiling, spirit excited to share something he could give and something he knew I loved. I looked forward to that every week. I could tell he looked forward to giving it to me too. The ice cream was free to him--one of the perks of his job.
When I was a young girl, my dad used to work in an ice cream factory. Every week he'd bring home two big brown paper bags filled with random ice cream made and boxed in the factory that week. Some I liked and some I didn't. But the thing I now remember more than which ice cream bars were in those bags, was how that bag was delivered to me. I can still see my dad, arms full, posture strong, face smiling, spirit excited to share something he could give and something he knew I loved. I looked forward to that every week. I could tell he looked forward to giving it to me too. The ice cream was free to him--one of the perks of his job.
Same thing happened when he'd bring me home a big stack of cardboard. If there were pieces of cardboard that were just going to be thrown out (and there were, often), he'd grab them and put them aside for me. He'd bring them home, carry them through the house like it was something precious, and deposit them in a special spot in his workshop reserved just for me and all the things I was making. I'd follow him. Again, it didn't cost him a thing, but that didn't effect the value of his gift. The value was the way he shared my excitement and relished the spirit of giving to me.
That manner in which my dad created a feeling of abundance in my life is one practice I've wanted to share with Ethan. My dad did so by the spirit in which he shared things he knew I'd love. Sometimes it was a stuffed animal. Sometimes it was a roll of leftover wallpaper. Sometimes it was a warm hand poking into the back seat of the car for me to grab hold of for a moment. It wasn't so much about the stuff. He didn't have much money left over to spend. It was about how he shared what he had to give. It was so sincerely generous, looking back now.
Doug and I can and do share more things that cost money with Ethan. We are fortunate to have more to share. Still, with almost every thing I do share with Ethan, I bring that same spirit of my dad's to the gift. I love giving Ethan things, whether that be games, or hugs, or an ear to listen. I love it so much. And I can see, especially now that Ethan is getting older, that he knows I love it, and it means a lot to him that I do. He's said many times that he feels like he has everything he needs. He does have a lot more things than I had as a child, but I really don't think that's what he means. His feeling of abundance comes from knowing we love sharing what we can with him--our time, attention and love included.
When you give, give as happily as you honestly can, and give with the receiver in mind more than yourself. That spirit shows, and is meaningful. The older your son gets, the more he'll see and understand and come to appreciate it, I believe.
Karen James
When you give, give as happily as you honestly can, and give with the receiver in mind more than yourself. That spirit shows, and is meaningful. The older your son gets, the more he'll see and understand and come to appreciate it, I believe.
Karen James
jsearthmom@...
<<With credit cards it's so hard to say we can't afford that. Because we could.>>
<<-=-"Make a budget and let him know he can spend $x every day or week.”-=-
***I wouldn’t do that. You might want to buy something for him for some reason. He might want a bunch of stuff you don’t think is worth the cost.*** >>>
There is this idea that budgets are constricting, restrictive, and arbitrary. And I used to think so too before I had one. I was always very fearful that if I created and kept to a budget I would be saying no all the time, and this was especially worrisome because we started living with a budget about a year after we began unschooling- so my husband and I were very much still deschooling at the time.
What I found was that, because of unschooling and my focus on principles and priorities, it was easy to set up a budget that reflected my values, where I was able to Yes as often as possible.
So in my budget, is a large "Yes Fund". It means I can say Yes to eating out, Yes to new things and experiences, Yes to weekend getaways with other unschoolers, Yes to conferences, Yes to computers, Yes, Yes, Yes!
I can't always provide the wanted item/experience immediately. But very often I can. And I can do so with the feeling of abundant generosity that Karen expressed. When I say yes, I mean yes, without the worry of how I will pay for it.
<<When you give, give as happily as you honestly can, and give with the receiver in mind more than yourself.>>
Sandra posted the link to writing on allowances. And this also was very helpful for me in improving my thinking while deschooling: when I provided money for my kids to spend however they wanted, I was able to let go of my judgement of how they were spending and what they wanted.
Before making that decision, I would feel like it was a "waste of money" to buy items that I thought were not worth their price and/or I could see would break shortly after buying them. But an important key to learning is experience. One cannot be told by someone else what is worthwhile and why. My kids had to experience this and decide for themselves.
After a few years of unschooling, I am now able to more easily explain without judgement why a certain toy might be a "better buy" than another and be a better partner to my kids in this area. And they trust me more because I have learned to value their joy, experience and learning instead of trying to be right.
Karen Angstadt
<<-=-"Make a budget and let him know he can spend $x every day or week.”-=-
***I wouldn’t do that. You might want to buy something for him for some reason. He might want a bunch of stuff you don’t think is worth the cost.*** >>>
There is this idea that budgets are constricting, restrictive, and arbitrary. And I used to think so too before I had one. I was always very fearful that if I created and kept to a budget I would be saying no all the time, and this was especially worrisome because we started living with a budget about a year after we began unschooling- so my husband and I were very much still deschooling at the time.
What I found was that, because of unschooling and my focus on principles and priorities, it was easy to set up a budget that reflected my values, where I was able to Yes as often as possible.
So in my budget, is a large "Yes Fund". It means I can say Yes to eating out, Yes to new things and experiences, Yes to weekend getaways with other unschoolers, Yes to conferences, Yes to computers, Yes, Yes, Yes!
I can't always provide the wanted item/experience immediately. But very often I can. And I can do so with the feeling of abundant generosity that Karen expressed. When I say yes, I mean yes, without the worry of how I will pay for it.
<<When you give, give as happily as you honestly can, and give with the receiver in mind more than yourself.>>
Sandra posted the link to writing on allowances. And this also was very helpful for me in improving my thinking while deschooling: when I provided money for my kids to spend however they wanted, I was able to let go of my judgement of how they were spending and what they wanted.
Before making that decision, I would feel like it was a "waste of money" to buy items that I thought were not worth their price and/or I could see would break shortly after buying them. But an important key to learning is experience. One cannot be told by someone else what is worthwhile and why. My kids had to experience this and decide for themselves.
After a few years of unschooling, I am now able to more easily explain without judgement why a certain toy might be a "better buy" than another and be a better partner to my kids in this area. And they trust me more because I have learned to value their joy, experience and learning instead of trying to be right.
Karen Angstadt
Sylvia Woodman
When Harry was that age, he was a bit of a collector. If there was a set he wanted the entire set. So we spent a lot of time looking things up on the computer. Browsing different stores to see what elements were available and where. If we traveled, we might take some time out to check and see if some of the missing pieces were available in another state or a different town than where we usually shopped. We watched unboxing videos on YouTube. We made lists. We put up pictures on the wall. We made digital wish lists and reviewed them often. We discussed the various features of the items, listed pros, cons, special features. We talked a lot about them. We played with the pieces that we did have. We sometimes went to yard sales or looked on eBay for older or hard to find models. We watched tutorials on how to modify things. We saved money together for more expensive items.
Now he is older and he is more focused on playing video games, but he still spends a lot of time going back after the story mode is completed, collecting all the achievements, all the weapons, all the special abilities, doing all the quests and side missions... And he still watches tutorials, walk throughs, lists the pros and cons of all the features. Sometimes I like to think about how thorough he is going to be when he shops for a car, or a refrigerator, or a house some day. :)
Warmly,
Sylvia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:41 AM, semajrak@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:<<But with this latest development I am not happy.>>
When I was a young girl, my dad used to work in an ice cream factory. Every week he'd bring home two big brown paper bags filled with random ice cream made and boxed in the factory that week. Some I liked and some I didn't. But the thing I now remember more than which ice cream bars were in those bags, was how that bag was delivered to me. I can still see my dad, arms full, posture strong, face smiling, spirit excited to share something he could give and something he knew I loved. I looked forward to that every week. I could tell he looked forward to giving it to me too. The ice cream was free to him--one of the perks of his job.Same thing happened when he'd bring me home a big stack of cardboard. If there were pieces of cardboard that were just going to be thrown out (and there were, often), he'd grab them and put them aside for me. He'd bring them home, carry them through the house like it was something precious, and deposit them in a special spot in his workshop reserved just for me and all the things I was making. I'd follow him. Again, it didn't cost him a thing, but that didn't effect the value of his gift. The value was the way he shared my excitement and relished the spirit of giving to me.That manner in which my dad created a feeling of abundance in my life is one practice I've wanted to share with Ethan. My dad did so by the spirit in which he shared things he knew I'd love. Sometimes it was a stuffed animal. Sometimes it was a roll of leftover wallpaper. Sometimes it was a warm hand poking into the back seat of the car for me to grab hold of for a moment. It wasn't so much about the stuff. He didn't have much money left over to spend. It was about how he shared what he had to give. It was so sincerely generous, looking back now.Doug and I can and do share more things that cost money with Ethan. We are fortunate to have more to share. Still, with almost every thing I do share with Ethan, I bring that same spirit of my dad's to the gift. I love giving Ethan things, whether that be games, or hugs, or an ear to listen. I love it so much. And I can see, especially now that Ethan is getting older, that he knows I love it, and it means a lot to him that I do. He's said many times that he feels like he has everything he needs. He does have a lot more things than I had as a child, but I really don't think that's what he means. His feeling of abundance comes from knowing we love sharing what we can with him--our time, attention and love included.
When you give, give as happily as you honestly can, and give with the receiver in mind more than yourself. That spirit shows, and is meaningful. The older your son gets, the more he'll see and understand and come to appreciate it, I believe.
Karen James
Sandra Dodd
-=-There is this idea that budgets are constricting, restrictive, and arbitrary.-=-
Because in many cases they are. Probably in most cases.
-=-And I used to think so too before I had one.-=-
But you have an unschooling budget with a large “yes” category. That doesn’t redeem the millions of budgets designed to say “no.”
I like your story, but remember that yours isn’t representative of the picture of budgets people have in their heads. I’m glad you described yours, because it will give other people courage to create a budget with leeway in it.
Long ago, three lifetimes ago (Kirby's, Marty’s and Holly’s, to this point) Keith said he wanted a budget. I said I didn’t. He was disturbed. I explained. I said if there was a budget amount for clothes, I would feel that I should spend all of it. If there was no such number, we might easily get by on thrift store and hand-me-down stuff some months, or years. If there was a budget for entertainment, I would feel bad if I wanted to go over. I might feel robbed if we went under.
Most of all, I said I thought a budget could become something to fight over.
What he really wanted was a percentage of income for savings. So I said to have all the savings he wanted, just not to tell me about it (except for leaving info I could find if something happened to him). He checked back a couple of times to see if I was serious, or maybe going crazy. I was seriousl
Things worked out well for us. I didn’t go crazy buying groceries, but sometimes splurged, and usually got what was on sale. My kids were happy with seconds (a great children’s catalog was in town and they had a store where garments were $1 if there was anything wrong with it (dyed oddly, or seam coming out, or small hole in fabric). I just got them and mended them. The kids enjoyed hand-me-downs, usually, but if they spotted something full price, or needed something particular, I felt that our clothing budget was wide open, from having bought nothing new for months or maybe years.
Toys and games were birthdays, Christmas, or if the game or toy was astounding and we all wanted it.
Souvenirs on road trips were beach towels. :-) If we couldn’t afford a t-shirt or toy for everyone, we got a towel and a fridge magnet. Memories shared.
If we had had the sort of budget Keith was envisioning, I would have kept track of what I had NOT spent and want to cash that out sometimes. For us, it worked better to have this philosophy:
Pay for the house and utilities
Have medical insurance
Keep at least one car running
Eat at home nearly always, but for fun sometimes, eat out (entertainment+food, or for kid lunch where they had toys, toy/educational supplies + playground + food)
Clothes… as described above. Happy fun clothes, and keep them clean and mended.
What wasn’t spent in a given month probably went into Keith’s secret savings, which we’re now using to help our young-adult kids when they need help, and I got a new smart car last week, now that I have no kids to drive around, and we didn’t take a loan for it.
I Do drive a kid around, a bit, though. Kirby’s fiancee’s six-year-old was the first to ride in the car with me, and I take her to school in it each morning, about a mile from here. She gets to sit in the front because there is no back seat, and that’s the big bonus for her as a kid who’s not yet 60 lbs and so ordinarily would be stuck in a booster chair in the back seat.
I know it’s hard for many or most younger parents whose kids are still so damp and sticky to imagine retirement with grown children and savings. Separating a feeling of abundance from spending money, even in small ways, will help with longterm abundance.
Even though the chat link I left said abundance and finances, we were talking about abundance and gratitude. Abundance and presence. Creativity and abundance.
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/02/abundance-february-11-2016.html
Making life sparkly and fun doesn’t always cost money.
Sandra
Because in many cases they are. Probably in most cases.
-=-And I used to think so too before I had one.-=-
But you have an unschooling budget with a large “yes” category. That doesn’t redeem the millions of budgets designed to say “no.”
I like your story, but remember that yours isn’t representative of the picture of budgets people have in their heads. I’m glad you described yours, because it will give other people courage to create a budget with leeway in it.
Long ago, three lifetimes ago (Kirby's, Marty’s and Holly’s, to this point) Keith said he wanted a budget. I said I didn’t. He was disturbed. I explained. I said if there was a budget amount for clothes, I would feel that I should spend all of it. If there was no such number, we might easily get by on thrift store and hand-me-down stuff some months, or years. If there was a budget for entertainment, I would feel bad if I wanted to go over. I might feel robbed if we went under.
Most of all, I said I thought a budget could become something to fight over.
What he really wanted was a percentage of income for savings. So I said to have all the savings he wanted, just not to tell me about it (except for leaving info I could find if something happened to him). He checked back a couple of times to see if I was serious, or maybe going crazy. I was seriousl
Things worked out well for us. I didn’t go crazy buying groceries, but sometimes splurged, and usually got what was on sale. My kids were happy with seconds (a great children’s catalog was in town and they had a store where garments were $1 if there was anything wrong with it (dyed oddly, or seam coming out, or small hole in fabric). I just got them and mended them. The kids enjoyed hand-me-downs, usually, but if they spotted something full price, or needed something particular, I felt that our clothing budget was wide open, from having bought nothing new for months or maybe years.
Toys and games were birthdays, Christmas, or if the game or toy was astounding and we all wanted it.
Souvenirs on road trips were beach towels. :-) If we couldn’t afford a t-shirt or toy for everyone, we got a towel and a fridge magnet. Memories shared.
If we had had the sort of budget Keith was envisioning, I would have kept track of what I had NOT spent and want to cash that out sometimes. For us, it worked better to have this philosophy:
Pay for the house and utilities
Have medical insurance
Keep at least one car running
Eat at home nearly always, but for fun sometimes, eat out (entertainment+food, or for kid lunch where they had toys, toy/educational supplies + playground + food)
Clothes… as described above. Happy fun clothes, and keep them clean and mended.
What wasn’t spent in a given month probably went into Keith’s secret savings, which we’re now using to help our young-adult kids when they need help, and I got a new smart car last week, now that I have no kids to drive around, and we didn’t take a loan for it.
I Do drive a kid around, a bit, though. Kirby’s fiancee’s six-year-old was the first to ride in the car with me, and I take her to school in it each morning, about a mile from here. She gets to sit in the front because there is no back seat, and that’s the big bonus for her as a kid who’s not yet 60 lbs and so ordinarily would be stuck in a booster chair in the back seat.
I know it’s hard for many or most younger parents whose kids are still so damp and sticky to imagine retirement with grown children and savings. Separating a feeling of abundance from spending money, even in small ways, will help with longterm abundance.
Even though the chat link I left said abundance and finances, we were talking about abundance and gratitude. Abundance and presence. Creativity and abundance.
http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com/2016/02/abundance-february-11-2016.html
Making life sparkly and fun doesn’t always cost money.
Sandra
Juliet Kemp
> === There is this idea that budgets are constricting, restrictive, and arbitrary. And I used to think so too before I had one. I was always very fearful that if I created and kept to a budget I would be saying no all the time, ...This has been my experience of budgeting too. A budget doesn't have to have lots of specific lumps of money in if you don't want it to; it can be "this is what we need to keep the lights on / food on the table" and "this is the discretionary money" (yes money! I like that label :) ). Or it can be super specific if that works for you. (I like specific categories but I move money around categories a lot - the software I use, You Need A Budget, is great for that and also works with unpredictable income.)
> What I found was that, because of unschooling and my focus on principles and priorities, it was easy to set up a budget that reflected my values, where I was able to Yes as often as possible.
>
> So in my budget, is a large "Yes Fund". ===
It did sound like the original poster didn't have a good handle on what their family expenses are - essentials, emergency money, debt repayment, fun money - and I think not knowing that can make it hard to clearly say Yes or Not right now. And managing Not right now is (I think) also easier if you're clear that you can't do it right now and also clear that you will try to find a way. Getting clear on that doesn't have to involve "a budget" if that doesn't work for you but finding a way that does work may be helpful.
I do think there's a very real difference between "we can find money for emergency medical care" (or the boiler exploding or whatever) and "we can find money for toys" (adult toys or kid toys!). Small children don't understand the consequences of not paying the rent or those other boring adult things; those things are real and they are real priorities.
A more reasonable comparison might be "if *I* really wanted this could we afford it?" (Or "if I really wanted a similar-price thing which fits my interests".) But there again, working out what your family *can* sensibly afford is helpful for thinking clearly about that for adults and kids.
Juliet
sukaynalabboun@...
==Now he is older and he is more focused on playing video games, but he still spends a lot of time going back after the story mode is completed, collecting all the achievements, all the weapons, all the special abilities, doing all the quests and side missions... And he still watches tutorials, walk throughs, lists the pros and cons of all the features. Sometimes I like to think about how thorough he is going to be when he shops for a car, or a refrigerator, or a house some day. :)==My youngest child does this too, and I have been trying (inside, of course) to find what is so intriguing about going back and re-doing the game, collecting everything. I have tried playing with her, my skills are no match to hers :-) so I think that is why it is hard for me to see what she gets out of it. I have been watching and trying to piece together how it is fulfilling a need....and thank you, Sylvia, because what you wrote explained what I have been watching and put it into perspective. I also did not see the draw for watching walk throughs, comparing systems (in great, elaborate detail). Now I see that a likely outcome is being able to be thorough. As simple as that. Of course, seeing that she was happily engaged was enough....but it is also nice to see something others will find as "valuable skills" being polished in the process.
katja.bostock@...
New to unschooling and struggling with creating abundance similarly to Christine (original post).
I meant to tag on to her question:
As food freedom is to create a healthy relationship with food, it makes candy less special. Wouldn't the same be true for toys, those things we want to be special?
I have fond memories of my own childhood, looking forward to Christmas or birthdays when I would get the special ONE, my first very own brand new bike! It was orange. And shiny. And it smelled new. I still remember.
My 5 year old daughter recently noticed bicycles in the toy store and hopes to get her own one soonest. Pink, with cherries and a white basket. I don't believe she sees a difference between a toy and a bicycle and I felt I should stay away from explaining 'big and expensive' and therefore scarce. So for my daughter, going to the store to get a stuffed animal unicorn (which was our plan) and instead bringing home a bicycle, is an option.
Sandra's earlier message said
<<Toys and games were birthdays, Christmas, or if the game or toy was astounding and we all wanted it.>>
That makes me think that NOT buying the unicorn or bicycle right away is ok as long as the child is and feels heard, the item might go on a birthday list on the fridge and will not be forgotten.
And this will mean, receiving a toy will still be special (a treat) and a reason for joy all around?
Katja
I meant to tag on to her question:
As food freedom is to create a healthy relationship with food, it makes candy less special. Wouldn't the same be true for toys, those things we want to be special?
I have fond memories of my own childhood, looking forward to Christmas or birthdays when I would get the special ONE, my first very own brand new bike! It was orange. And shiny. And it smelled new. I still remember.
My 5 year old daughter recently noticed bicycles in the toy store and hopes to get her own one soonest. Pink, with cherries and a white basket. I don't believe she sees a difference between a toy and a bicycle and I felt I should stay away from explaining 'big and expensive' and therefore scarce. So for my daughter, going to the store to get a stuffed animal unicorn (which was our plan) and instead bringing home a bicycle, is an option.
Sandra's earlier message said
<<Toys and games were birthdays, Christmas, or if the game or toy was astounding and we all wanted it.>>
That makes me think that NOT buying the unicorn or bicycle right away is ok as long as the child is and feels heard, the item might go on a birthday list on the fridge and will not be forgotten.
And this will mean, receiving a toy will still be special (a treat) and a reason for joy all around?
Katja
Sandra Dodd
-=-That makes me think that NOT buying the unicorn or bicycle right away is ok as long as the child is and feels heard, the item might go on a birthday list on the fridge and will not be forgotten. -=-
Depends.
Is her birthday in the winter? Getting a bicycle in warm weather is way better than in winter.
Think of your unschooling expenses: is she involved in sports, martial arts, dance—something very physical? If not, the bicycle might be justifiable as an educational expense (in an imaginary budget, remembering that unschooling shouldn’t be free and that part of providing a learning environment should be remembering all the areas anyone might think should be considered, if you want to buy that bike).
-=-That makes me think that NOT buying the unicorn or bicycle right away is ok as long as the child is and feels heard, the item might go on a birthday list on the fridge and will not be forgotten. And this will mean, receiving a toy will still be special (a treat) and a reason for joy all around?-=-
It seems maybe you’re suggesting that deprivation creates abundance. I don’t think you mean to, though.
Some of this is going to depend on the size of a family’s home, how much storage they can afford (containers, shelves) and what their budget is.
Sandra
Depends.
Is her birthday in the winter? Getting a bicycle in warm weather is way better than in winter.
Think of your unschooling expenses: is she involved in sports, martial arts, dance—something very physical? If not, the bicycle might be justifiable as an educational expense (in an imaginary budget, remembering that unschooling shouldn’t be free and that part of providing a learning environment should be remembering all the areas anyone might think should be considered, if you want to buy that bike).
-=-That makes me think that NOT buying the unicorn or bicycle right away is ok as long as the child is and feels heard, the item might go on a birthday list on the fridge and will not be forgotten. And this will mean, receiving a toy will still be special (a treat) and a reason for joy all around?-=-
It seems maybe you’re suggesting that deprivation creates abundance. I don’t think you mean to, though.
Some of this is going to depend on the size of a family’s home, how much storage they can afford (containers, shelves) and what their budget is.
Sandra
Bernadette Lynn
=============
My 5 year old daughter recently noticed bicycles in the toy store and hopes to get her own one soonest. Pink, with cherries and a white basket. I don't believe she sees a difference between a toy and a bicycle and I felt I should stay away from explaining 'big and expensive' and therefore scarce. So for my daughter, going to the store to get a stuffed animal unicorn (which was our plan) and instead bringing home a bicycle, is an option.
================I'm not quite sure why you wouldn't want to explain to your daughter that bikes are more expensive than stuffed toys. They are. Money in most families is limited, and it's not helpful to a child to be kept in the dark about it.If you tell a child "that costs more, and we don't have money for it right now but we can save up", that's information, and a promise that they can have it when you can afford it. If you 'stay away from explaining' about expense and budgets, what do you say when you genuinely can't afford something? Make them feel you simply don't want to get it for them?There are ways of helping children feel abundance when limits are real, involving sales and charity shops and saving and buying second-hand: it's not so much not knowing about limits, as seeing how you deal with those limits that create the feeling of abundance.Bernadette.
sarah_peshek@...
I started homeschooling my daughters (7 and 4 years old) in August and unschooling at the first of this year. This discussion made me think of a couple things I'd like to share as my first post:
=-=A budget doesn't have to have lots of specific lumps of money in if you don't want it to; it can be "this is what we need to keep the lights on / food on the table" and "this is the discretionary money"=-=
The story of how our family has changed our attitude toward budgeting shows how the practice of budgeting has the potential to promote either scarcity or abundance, depending on the approach. My husband used to keep a very specific budget and every dollar we spent for 8 years was recorded there. Our general attitude toward money was: spend as little as possible so we can save as much as possible. We did buy unnecessary things sometimes, but I usually felt guilty about them. He has decided that this intricate budgeting plan isn't a practice he wants to continue - perhaps an individual change toward trustfulness brought about by our family's new attitude toward life as unschoolers?
Now that we are saying "yes" much more but he isn't recording what we spend, I realized it would be helpful for me to start measuring our finances a bit so that my "yes" could be joyful and my "not yet" could be genuine. I found that his highly detailed budget was too much for me so I use the app GoodBudget - it calls its categories envelopes and I have very broad categories for mine: Bills, Food, Fun Stuff, Savings, Giving. I fill the envelopes with the money coming in and record what goes out and can move the money around between envelopes as needed. This way of budgeting is simple and flexible. It is a measurement but it is generous and empowering - a big change from our previous needless scrimping and unnecessary guilt. I feel confident that we have enough to cover what we actually do need and it has made a big difference in my mindset when the children ask for something. Viola - more peace for us all!
=-=More things in his life that don’t involve toy play could enrich it!=-=
This conversation make me think of how I've seen my 7 year old daughter feel abundance when we go to the library. Before we came to unschooling, I limited how many items she could check out. Even then, I probably couldn't have explained why I did this. But I have stopped the restricting and our weekly visits seem to make her feel very full of joy! Our library does have some limits on certain items, like DVDs, but those are real limits (and far higher than my previous arbitrary ones). She likes to check out as many books as will fit in our wheely cart and sometimes more if she is in the mood to carry some. She checks out magazines and books she will not read, movies she won't watch. She enjoys having them at home...even if they come due before she has a chance to read them. Something about having them here makes her happy. She feels she has plenty of options of what to read and watch, and it doesn't cost me anything as long as we work together to organize the whereabouts of all that abundance. (Here's where I admit that I'M the only one who has lost a library book since we started this journey!) Old Controlling Mom tries to rear her head and create feelings of anxiety around that amount of stuff we don't "need" but I am thankfully able to breathe and then see clearly how something so simple helps both of us learn and heal.
Peace,
Sarah Rae