Ipads for Christmas

kgharriman1@...

20 Dec 2015, at 10:02pm

So we decided to finally buy our 4 kids their own device each for Christmas. 2 ipads on a phone contract (bit like a loan) as they are otherwise unaffordable for us, 1 refurbished (therefore cheaper) ipad mini and 1 base model ipad mini. I needed to think laterally to figure a way to provide these things. These are in addition to other gifts. Lately though I have been wondering if this is excessive, over the top, indulgent and in all other ways not in the spirit of simple christmas. While on the one hand I know that the little ones having their own devices will free up my phone (our 6 yo uses my phone alot for games and sometimes bit not often he and my 3 yo argue over it) and our eldest girls have been longing for an ipad (they each have an ipod but one had a dodgy middle button now ) - this one is the iPad air 2 with 64 gb so it should last a good while before an upgrade us desired, on the other hand I have this gnawing feeling that its all just too much. We are moving 1200 km east in january and maybe a feel the need to "spoil" them to cushion the uprooting from their home... or something. I am surrounded by limited, restrictive parenting as I always have been here where we live (where we're going I will finally have in person contact with other unschoolers and I suspect I will cry many tears of relief when this happens). It's so hard to be in abundant mindset when anyone I talk to would think badly of us for being so excessive when we really can't afford these things. But as I said I found ways to do it which we could manage. I am a sucker for buying lots of fun things for the kids at Christmas and birthdays and I love seeing the joy on their faces when they open them. But then I think about the meaning of Christmas, the plight of third world children and I just feel like the most greedy, selfish, self indulgent person in the western world when I look at what my kids have and that we are giving them even more! So conflicted.

[email protected]

20 Dec 2015, at 10:50pm

Unschooling is not free. There are many curricula out there who cost the same or more than an IPad.

Would you feel it was too much to invest in a tool that not only brings in the world but enormous learning , resources and entertainment, and even more; peace, abundance and joy into your home???

Much more than any curriculum could :-)

Alex

Sent from my ASUS MeMO Pad 7 LTE

-------- Original Message --------
From:"kgharriman1@... [AlwaysLearning]"
Sent:Sun, 20 Dec 2015 23:02:15 -0600
To:[email protected]
Subject:[AlwaysLearning] Ipads for Christmas

Sandra Dodd

20 Dec 2015, at 10:51pm

-=- I have this gnawing feeling that its all just too much.-=-

Do you have any other “gnawing” going on?
To use an idiom such as “I have this gnawing feeling…” means you’re quoting one of the voices in your head.

As to whether it’s “indulgent,” think seriously what “indulge” means and why you thought of and used that word.

-=-maybe a feel the need to "spoil" them to cushion the uprooting from their home.-=-

Please don’t think in terms of “spoiling,” not even with quotation marks. Think of it as comfort, appeasement, softening, cushioning, if you want to feel better about something that might make the move easier.

-=- I am a sucker for buying lots of fun things for the kids at Christmas and birthdays and I love seeing the joy on their faces when they open them. But then I think about the meaning of Christmas, the plight of third world children and I just feel like the most greedy, selfish, self indulgent person in the western world when I look at what my kids have and that we are giving them even more! So conflicted.-=-

The plight of third world children would not be changed One BIT by your children NOT having iPads. Seriously.

You’ve built up a storm of confusion.
There’s negatvity galore in what you wrote.

Please (just in private, to yourself) read your post either aloud, or moving your lips and imagine that you’re reading it aloud, on a stage, to a group. I think it will sound different to you.

Your children will be happy, if you don’t pour a layer of guilt and remorse and fear all over the whole situation. They will learn, they will have fun, they will build memories, there will be music and pictures and photos come of all this.

Also consider that you might be jealous. A lot of parental hesitation comes from jealousy that we didn’t have that when we were that age, and we’re fine/strong/happy. Beware of the child in you harming the child in them. :-)

Sandra

Sarah Cannon

21 Dec 2015, at 1:49am

Hi,

I've never posted to this group before. I read in your words a discomfort about the relationship between Christmas and excessive buying of gifts. Worth listening to that uncomfortable feeling. There are many more and other ways to celebrate this time of the year. What would it be like if you had bought those iPads in any of the other eleven months of the year? Or if you had bought them as a going away/moving away gift? How would that feel to you? For me Unschooling gives the freedom to create abundance and joy around us all year, without having to wait until Christmas to binge buy.

Sent from my iPhone

Anna Black

21 Dec 2015, at 4:43am

My childhood Christmases were lavish and abundant. My parents worked hard to make sure our loungeroom was full of wonderfully wrapped presents on Christmas morning. They are some of my happiest memories, the excitement, anticipating with my brother. So much joy.

We are doing the same with our children. I want them to experience that same joy and abundance, so we work out ways to get them everything they want. It's already becoming less though. This year my 8-year-old only had two things on her Christmas list. She also spent $30 of her own money on a gift for the giving tree for a child who might not get any presents. On a trip to the city to see the Christmas displays, she was moved by a sign written by a homeless man and gave more of her money, plus some food to him.

Being generous and giving as much as possible to our children gives them joy. It also breeds generosity and creates a feeling of security and abundance. More is more.

Bernadette Lynn

21 Dec 2015, at 6:28am

Your children could have twice as much and it still not be enough, if they don't have what they need. And they'll carry on needing more and more as they get older.

You wouldn't feel bad about buying them new clothes as they physically grow up: don't feel bad about getting them new experiences and options as they mentally develop.

My youngest was 2 when we got each of our children their own netbook and it was one of the best investments we've made. I wish they'd been around when the eldest was 2.

Bernadette.

On 21 December 2015 at 11:43, Anna Black anna.black@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

My childhood Christmases were lavish and abundant. My parents worked hard to make sure our loungeroom was full of wonderfully wrapped presents on Christmas morning. They are some of my happiest memories, the excitement, anticipating with my brother. So much joy.

We are doing the same with our children. I want them to experience that same joy and abundance, so we work out ways to get them everything they want. It's already becoming less though. This year my 8-year-old only had two things on her Christmas list. She also spent $30 of her own money on a gift for the giving tree for a child who might not get any presents. On a trip to the city to see the Christmas displays, she was moved by a sign written by a homeless man and gave more of her money, plus some food to him.

Being generous and giving as much as possible to our children gives them joy. It also breeds generosity and creates a feeling of security and abundance. More is more.

tandos mama

21 Dec 2015, at 9:20am

There are people in our community who think that we spoil our children because they have a second-hand ipad and computer available for their own use. Our kids also have lots of toys, games, books, pets, outings and activities. I'm grateful that my husband and I both take enormous pleasure in seeing our children explore the world and doing it with them. We are not wealthy and we've made lots of changes in our lifestyle to be able to have only one parent work. There is plenty that we can't afford, but we always try to figure out ways to make things possible.

Some families we know practice a sort of forced scarcity, restricting what possessions their children can own in an effort to avoid what they call commercialism or consumer-culture, especially at the holidays, and even when they could easily afford more. I find it sad, because the children see their parents buy cars, phones, food, clothing, music, and even alcohol. Then these children act sour about what other friends have that they do not. I appreciate a lovingly handmade gift, but a tablet isn't something I can craft of wood, wool or thrifted items. Our worlds don't need to be either/or and it doesn't improve our lives to simply avoid purchases. We can have rich abundance if we are generous enough with our children and ourselves to recognize when our choices support joyful living.

How wonderful that you're able to give each child access with her/his own device! I would be grateful for that possibility and eager to see where each child's exploration leads. If you're lucky they will share their discoveries with you!

Tori

mama to Tolinka & Obi

ps. and here's a kid + computer story:

When our kids (twins, now 8 yrs) were about 3 yrs old they used to play on my computer when I wasn't using it. After all, they'd watched their dad and I use these machines and they were curious. They loved poisson rouge and my son was fascinated with the keyboard, typing letters and numbers. But the most amazing thing for me was watching them discover minecraft. At an age when they couldn't, yet, open the refrigerator, they could build worlds! They made signs with names and instructions on the things they built and told fabulous stories about the places, characters and events. It was such magic to peer into their worlds!

Once I told this story to a friend who questioned kids' access to computers. She suggested that my kids weren't imagining, but just doing what was possible within the structure of a game created by someone else. She was wrong. In the same way they play with toys--reassigning roles and purposes, making up invisible characters and places--they were embellishing the minecraft world with elements that no one but they could see! The game was a starting point, but imagination has no limits.

Sandra Dodd

21 Dec 2015, at 11:31am

-=-We can have rich abundance if we are generous enough with our children and ourselves to recognize when our choices support joyful living.-=-

Yes.
It’s not WHAT, or when, or how expensive, but WHY?
And what other people will think about it shouldn’t be a factor within an unschooling family deciding on something that WILL provide hours, weeks, months, years, a lifetime of connections.

-=-Once I told this story to a friend who questioned kids' access to computers. She suggested that my kids weren't imagining, but just doing what was possible within the structure of a game created by someone else. She was wrong.-=-

And she wasn’t using her own imagination, nor working from her own experience. She was repeating was she wished was true from the structure of an argument created by someone else. :-) Parroting.

On facebook a couple of weeks ago, I expressed giddy gratitude that my dishwasher was repaired and that when our (borrowed from Kirby) microwave died, that Keith was able to get me another one right away. I was HAPPY. Someone responded that if I wasn’t afraid of the radiation of the microwave, and that microwaves removed all the nutrients from food, “more power to you.”

I asked how a microwave, or anything else, could remove ALL the nutrients from food, and whether she knew this for sure or was parroting something she had heard. She Went OFF about “parroting,” and blocked me and someone who had also commented.

Sometimes people want the world to be simple, and somewhat harsh and limiting, so that they can be happy in a smaller, darker space. When people criticize a family’s generosity, or kindness to children, they’re wanting that family to dial it back so that they (cranky observer) can feel better about being stingy and unkind.

While I agree that families might give gifts at times other than Christmas or birthdays ("For me Unschooling gives the freedom to create abundance and joy around us all year, without having to wait until Christmas to binge buy”), Christmas IS a gift-giving festival, and the festivities are heightened (for children, for lots of people) by a pile of stuff.

Thanksgiving (or whatever feast days are celebrated within a culture) *could* be described as a food binge, or as an excess of food, and someone could say that the meal should be spread over the month instead of presented all at once. But the difference between a meal and a feast is the leftovers. :-) If there’s just enough to go around, that’s no feast.

Don’t feel guilty about cultural celebrations. Be joyful, at Christmas. Be grateful, at Thanksgiving. Feel renewed at events involving new years or the births of gods or saints or ascensions or atonement or mourning or rebirth.

Be who you are, and where you are, in the most uplifting, hopeful, sweet-as-possible way.
Who we are today is parents living in an internet-connected time. Be joyful and grateful about that! :-)

Resisting and rejecting who we are, where we are, when we are, cannot be healthy for children or their parents.

Sandra

Sarah Thompson

21 Dec 2015, at 12:15pm

It is such a gift to me to be able to be abundant with my children, on the holidays and any other time. I prioritize money and time based on what interests *them*, rather than preconceived notions about what they *should* experience. They love computer games and youtube videos, so I direct resources there. Sometimes it's easy to block out the killjoy chorus ("It's addictive! It's toxic! It's crass consumerism and morally inferior to my choice to teetotal my children for the sake of my sanctimony!" Etc.), and sometimes it's not, but my children, not the killjoys, are my priority.

As to whether computer games are creative, what a thought! I've learned every word I know from copying someone else's writing or speech. I use the same 26 letters. I read books that are narratives constructed entirely by someone else. To suggest that video game play is uncreative is unthinking and joyless-a puritanical response that seems to come from a neo-Luddite attitude about computer technology as alien (because it is different than what we grew up with) and therefore bad.

Loving the children I have, meeting their needs and reveling in abundance with them, rather than holding them or me up to an outside standard that doesn't have joy at it's heart, is a great gift that I have received from learning to parent peacefully and in partnership.

Sarah

semajrak@...

21 Dec 2015, at 4:20pm

<<But then I think about the meaning of Christmas, the plight of third world children and I just feel like the most greedy, selfish, self indulgent person in the western world when I look at what my kids have and that we are giving them even more! So conflicted.>>

I have had a habit of convincing myself that I care about things because I think caring will make me a better person. This may not be true of the original poster, but perhaps someone else will be able to relate. It wasn't until I began to examine the things that I was telling myself mattered, and look for ways to create positive change in those places, that I began to live in the world in a more honest and productive way.

<<But then I think about the meaning of Christmas>>

What is your meaning of Christmas? (You don't have to answer that here. Just think about it.) Once we had Ethan, I started to realize that I could make Christmas whatever I wanted. It seemed to me that the most important thing I could do for him was to focus on creating some kind of tradition he would grow to have fond memories of--memories that might inspire him in his own traditions when he was older.

I'm not religious in the least, so I thought about what I like about the season. I like the lights. I love how they brighten the dark nights in this northern hemisphere this time of year. I like the tree. I love trees generally, and bringing one into the home for some period of time is a real treat to me. I love giving and receiving gifts. I like that there's this one time of year that people exchange things they hope others might benefit from--find fun, find funny, find interesting, find beautiful, find delicious. I like the feeling of abundance this exchage brings. I like that it's an opportunity to share what we know and what we have with one another.

In our own family, I like the routines we've comfortably fallen into. On Christmas Eve we watch a movie, usually one we've seen before. Christmas morning, Doug and I make coffee and watch Ethan go through his stocking. We spend the rest of the morning, into the afternoon, opening gifts, making food, playing games, laughing, listening to music. Then we have a big meal. I like the warmth, the laughter, the games, the music and the food we share together. It's wonderful. The gifts are one part of the whole experience. They add to the richness of the day and the days that follow. Some years we've had more to give. Some years we've had less. How much we gave mattered little compared to the spirit in which the gifts were given and the moments in which they were shared.

That is some of what I think about when I reflect on my meaning of Christmas. There's more, but it's not that important to others here. What's important is that you define what's meaningful about the holidays for yourself and your family, so that you can build a tradition you feel good about, rather than living through one that leaves you feeling greedy, selfish, self indulgent and conflicted.

<<But then I think about...the plight of third world children>>

Christmas isn't the only time of year you can think about children in need. Not all third world children are needy. Not only children of the third world are needy. Think about what you are telling yourself, and reflect on what really matters to you.

There are things you can do for children with less means than yourself any time of year *if* that is truly something you care about. Every year (less one, where I chose to help another family) since Ethan was three, I've sponsored one child's Christmas in my community through an organization that helps families with lower incomes. I was responsible for purchasing, wrapping (with blank tags to be filled out by their mom and dad), and delivering all the gifts requested for the child by the parent(s). I feel incredibly fortunate to be able to do this. A couple of years I volunteered in a local soup kitchen (once with Ethan) on the weeks leading up to Christmas. There are many organizations that organize to give toys to children who might not receive anything otherwise. Some accept toys. Some prefer donations. Perhaps you know a child yourself who would love an extra something special from a friend.

At other times of year, one could volunteer a couple hours a week at an organization that helps children in need. I'll be volunteering at the Ronald McDonald house down the street from me starting next month. There are organizations that anyone can donate to that support children in need in your community, as well as abroad. A few dollars goes a long way when added to the contributions of others.

If the issue of children in need is really something that matters to you, there are a lot of things you can do to help any time of year. If it isn't something that really matters to you, that's okay. There are no shortage of things to focus your attention and positive energy on, the least of which being your own family and children. Regardless of whether you honestly decide if it's something you want to spend time, money and/or energy on, don't carry an attitude of shame. Doing so will neither help the children in need, nor help you make better choices for yourself and your family, nor improve your own children's lives in earnest in any way.

Karen James

Jo Isaac

21 Dec 2015, at 4:36pm

== I needed to think laterally to figure a way to provide these things.==

That is fantastic! How wonderful you managed to get them all iPads in such a creative way!

==Lately though I have been wondering if this is excessive, over the top, indulgent and in all other ways not in the spirit of simple christmas.==

What do you mean by 'simple Christmas'? Why should Christmas be simple? Christmas for kids should be a wonderful, memorable, exciting. When I was a kid, my Mum didn't have much money, but I always had loads of presents at Christmas - likely far more than she could really afford at that time. I always looked forward to Christmas, even as a teenager, and remember it fondly. I want Kai to have those memories too - so I definitely don't intend to give him a 'simple' Christmas - quite the opposite!

==It's so hard to be in abundant mindset when anyone I talk to would think badly of us for being so excessive when we really can't afford these things.==

I wouldn't spend much time with people like that, if that were possible. I do know people who think that way, but I tend to be 'out and proud' with respect to our life choices and how we celebrate festivities to their full. Those kinds of people are free to think badly of me if they want - but I know our life is joyful, fun and as abundant as we can make it - I look to our own lives, not to what someone else thinks they know. Focus on the responses in this group to help you with an abundant mindset - we are people you are 'talking to' - so not everyone thinks badly of you and think it's excessive.

==But then I think about the meaning of Christmas, the plight of third world children and I just feel like the most greedy, selfish, self indulgent person in the western world when I look at what my kids have and that we are giving them even more! ==

Christmas means different things to different people. I'm not religious, and to me the meaning of Christmas is gifts, giving, joy, happy kids, family, food, lights, glitter! As Sandra said, the plight of third world children isn't going to be affected by whether you give your children iPads or not. Giving our own kids a sense of abundance, of love, of happiness - those are the most important things they will take out into the world as adults.

My son only asked for a few big presents this year - a couple of video games - and I'm looking at them and feeling sad he only has a few things to unwrap. So, tonight i'm going to the shops to buy a whole load of stocking fillers and wrap those up - they won't cost much, and it will bring more of a sense of abundance and excitement to Christmas morning [😊]

Jo

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semajrak@...

21 Dec 2015, at 7:56pm

I'm sorry. I meant to write "...*not* the least of which being your own family and children..."

There are no shortage of things to focus your attention and positive energy on, not the least of which being your own family and children.

Karen

sukaynalabboun@...

25 Dec 2015, at 5:10am

I think I understand. We live in a "third world country", with several million Syrian refugees....(Lebanon) and I still bought all three kids, and myself Ipad minis when they were on sale over a year ago. I do get that suffering and feeling wasteful. We don't have libraries, few movie theatres and sort of lame satellites. No mail. So the ipads were multipurpose homeschooling expenses- least of which being that we can buy books online. They have so many uses and no more arguing for the ipad or laptop for videos, the camera, games, etc. We also bought a scanner/printer and a new gaming-ish laptop (for us a major upgrade in that dorection!) this year since there are a few things ipads are not great for.....but overall, the money was well spent, and alltogether less than what we used to spend on schoolbooks (let alone the 10k per year for tuition!)

We donate alot of time and goods to the refugees, among other causes we find enrich our lives or matter to us. Oddly, because of the UN, the Palestinian and Syrian refugees are often in better shape than the impoverished Lebanese- perhaps irrelevant, but as firsthand, eyewitness information, the news is not always very accurate. I sincerely agree that being generous is the only way to encourage generosity. It is so simple, and my kids rarely ask for things, and turn alot of things down when offered. When they do ask, or I can think of a solution within my means, it is a pleasure to give.

sukaynalabboun@...

25 Dec 2015, at 7:05am

Sorry-wasn't fully present when proofreading, I was making omelettes :-)

I should have said working out a schedule or negotiating for use of the various devices, as in all honesty, they rarely "argue". It is another one of thise catch-all terms that I should have noticed wasn't entirely accurate.

Sandra Dodd

25 Dec 2015, at 8:08am

This came in as sort of a duplicate from sukaynalabboun, but it was longer than the other:

Sorry- edited to add I was not being mindful when proofreading (making omelettes). It would have been more accurate to say negotiating use of the devices, and "arguing" is one of those catch-all terms that was not what was truthful in describing what the girls actually do. Culturally, kids "argue", not negotiate. In honesty, I am not giving them the credit they deserve: they actually calmly negotiate, not argue.
____________________

This topic has become really beautiful. I didn’t expect that. Just TALKING about iPads has been wonderful. :-)

Sandra