anita_loomis@...

"Eat when you are hungry" is one of our family's guiding principles.  In our house that looks like a lot of monkey platters, individual food choices and unstructured meals.  We've pretty much always got candy around and we eat it when we feel like it. 

Most of the children who come to play at our house come from families with a lot of food rules (particularly my daughter's two best friends, one of whom attends school and the other whose family homeschools but does not unschool).  You can guess that they go hog wild with the candy, often quickly stuffing themselves with what goes on the monkey platter snack tray and then asking for more and more until it is all gone. One girl even goes and checks the cupboard to see if it really is all gone.   My observation is that both of them are suffering from food anxiety.  

I want to be a generous hostess and offer what we have freely.  So that is what I have been doing.  But lately I find myself not wanting to do it. I'd rather not be providing the treat budget for these families (usually neither sends their kids over with snacks or, if they do, it is nothing  that the girls actually want to eat). I'd rather not watch a 7 year old binge eat eight chocolate bars.  And my daughter is starting to complain about play dates that are dominated by her friends' desire to eat the entire time. 

We have tried going out to the park or beach but find that the girls are still food-fixated ("Can we get an ice-cream bar?  Can we go get some chips from Chipotle?) And I am paying for those as well.  When I specifically mentioned that one of the girls would need some spending money for an overnight trip, her father conveniently forgot to give her any, promised to give me a check when we got back and never followed through.  I bought her the same souvenirs, meals and game tokens that I bought my daughter.  I did it kindly and generously and with love.  That's the person I want to be but not the person I am actually feeling like!

Have other unschoolers dealt with this?  I don't want to put up the candy and pretend we don't have any. I don't want to say no to my daughter when I would normally say yes.  I don't want to punish the girls for their parents' behavior. I see that each family is under its own stresses.  Do I just consider it a charitable contribution and a way to model not being a jerk to children? 

Thanks,
Anita

 

Sandra Dodd

Going into the pantry is invasive. Maybe she's used to people telling here something is all gone when it isn't, really.

-=-Have other unschoolers dealt with this? I don't want to put up the candy and pretend we don't have any. I don't want to say no to my daughter when I would normally say yes. I don't want to punish the girls for their parents' behavior. I see that each family is under its own stresses. Do I just consider it a charitable contribution and a way to model not being a jerk to children? -=-

Don't think of it as "just" anything. And don't think of it as "charity."

Plan ahead. Have inexpensive snacks—Otter Pops instead of ice cream bars; potato chips instead of cookies, maybe.

-=- I don't want to say no to my daughter when I would normally say yes. -=-

You could say "When those kids go home, then yes."

Putting the candy up is not a bad idea. Think of WHY you don't want to. If you had a friend coming over with a drinking problem, having all your liquor on display wouldn't be nice (or smart). If you had a friend with dietary restrictions, you would probably put out snacks she COULD eat. This could be seen similarly.

Sandra

tandos mama

We've had similar experiences. Both of our kids (8 yr old twins) found their friends' obsessive behavior disturbing and simply not fun. It was helpful to talk with our kids when friends weren't present about how we could make playdates more fun and less focused on binge eating.  Obi and Linka agreed that we would have a limited number of treats available when those friends were with us. They also suggested a scheduled snack so that everyone would know when snacks were available and when it was time to go back to playing. Linka suggested that she and her brother would ask for my help with snack time so that no kids need open the pantry or freezer. Our kids have always had a healthy relationship with food and they know that these limitations are in place to help certain friends, not a new regimen we'll be implementing in our home on a regular basis.

Obi and Linka often feel sad for their friends. Food isn't the only reason. Most of their friends are equally regulated in their time with computers, tv and movies. One family even limits each child's reading time to one hour per day. It makes me sad for those kids too. But I also don't want our home to be the designated place to break all the rules. More importantly, Obi and Linka want to know that their friends want friendship, not just access to forbidden food and video games.

With certain friends we've found it helpful to organize outings with limited opportunities to buy snacks. Or at home we'd extend an invitation for a specific type of play: pool party, softball game, movie night, etc.

We're grateful for the handful of friends who can come and play, eat and have fun without issue.

Tori
mama to Tolinka & Obi, both 8 yrs now



semajrak@...

I had the same issue for years (which is too long to have this problem, probably, but sometimes I learn slowly).  I couldn't seem to resolve how I was feeling about the dynamic I had set up.  On one hand I felt selfish for not wanting to offer all we had.  On the other hand, because the children took advantage of what I was offering (which makes sense for them to do, of course...after all I was making it all available to them), I felt my boundaries weren't being respected, and that irritated me.  So I bounced back and forth between wanting to be generous and wanting to have normal limits respected, and I couldn't seem to resolve where to land. 

One problem was that I hadn't established clear boundaries or limits for anyone, including for myself.  That, unsurprisingly, led to an open experiment when kids came to our place.  It wasn't their fault.  It wasn't the parents' fault.  It was mine for not understanding my own limits, and not having the strength and the compassion to make that clear to all, so that people could operate reasonably within those set limits.  

The second problem was that I believed my way was the better way, and I wasn't willing to compromise that.  As I look back with more humility, I feel very embarrassed.  That was a very arrogant assumption on my part, and it led to challenges, not only for myself, but for Ethan, his friends and their families.  

One afternoon the mom of one of Ethan's friends confided in me that when her son came home from our place, he wouldn't eat any dinner.  I could tell she was hurt and frustrated.  I apologized and told her he did eat A LOT at our place.  In my mind, I was thinking "See what happens when you restrict access to food."  While it might be true that arbitrary restrictions on food can lead to undesired and unknown consequences, I wasn't helping by feeding him indiscriminately at our place.  She said she had assumed he must be eating a lot with us, and laughed while saying it was okay.  But what I was doing wasn't okay.  My actions were creating (or at least contributing to) some tension in their home.  That was only one instance that I knew of.  I'm sure there must have been more.

By not acknowledging the other family's policies regarding food, I wasn't helping Ethan understand that people live differently.  I wasn't helping him know that in pursuit of being a respectful friend, we might need to make compensations while we're in their company at least.  I wasn't helping the children learn how to be good guests either.  Although it might have been better if the parents did more to help with that themselves, since they weren't there, that became my job, and I was blowing it royally.

So, it wasn't good, and I wasn't helping by being wishy washy and too full of my own ideas about things.  Once I finally realized this, it was a bit of a challenge for me to set boundaries.  I consciously did so slowly.  I stocked up on less expensive snacks, like Sandra mentioned, and I only put out what was to be offered for that period of play.  I was generous, but when it was gone, I simply said "That's it for today."  I supported the family's own dynamic by saying things like "You're going to have dinner soon."  Or, "Maybe we should check with your mom's plans."  If there was more than one child, and the food needed to be shared among them all, I told them how many they could have each.  I placed that food where I could see it and I helped them not take more than their share.  I told them the pantry was off limits.  That food was for our family.  The candy and other sweets I put out of sight.  None of this was easy for me, but, in time, it was better for and more respectful to everyone.  

I told Ethan that while his friends were over we'd need to stick to the food I put out to share, and the rules I made for sharing.  I made sure he had enough to eat before they came over, and told him if he was hungry and wanted more to eat when his friends were visiting we could take a break from playing and get back together later in the day, or another day, whichever he preferred.  It wasn't ideal for us in the sense of not being able to do what we normally would do.  But, Ethan was really very understanding about it.  I think it was a relief for him, because the way I allowed his friends to explore our food made him feel uncomfortable and a bit encroached upon.  He wanted to be with his friends.  He wanted to have them over to our house.  He knew everything would go back to normal when we were on our own again.  I wish I would have known what to do from the start.  Hopefully knowing my mistakes will help another make more mindful decisions in their own home.

Karen James

semajrak@...

<<I wasn't helping him know that in pursuit of being a respectful friend, we might need to make compensations while we're in their company at least.>>

I meant to write compromises, not compensations.  :-)

Karen

jsearthmom@...

We have many children in our neighborhood who frequently play at our house. Some have similar behaviors to those your describe and are sometimes very fixated on food.

When it is an issue of money, I have switched to less expensive snacks: popcorn, freezer pops, tortilla chips with salsa or queso. We often buy large variety bags of candy, most of which our girls enjoy, and will sometimes put out the candy bowl of "leftovers" for guests who don't have any preference for type of candy. (This is in addition to other monkey platter foods.)

Because it sounds like your daughter is troubled by the behavior and fixation with food, you might together decide to create new "rules" for when these friends are over- only x pieces of candy per person or something similar. It could be flexible (or even changed completely) if your daughter asked you to bend it, since it is something you are creating to work together for more fun play dates for her.

For example, we have a "rule" that kids can't get their own snacks when certain kids are over. This was a response to lack of portion control and lots of wasted food- which created disappointment for my kids when we ran out of foods they really enjoy. While I was often able to get more within a day or two, it didn't stop the disappointment at seeing their favorite foods thrown away. So this was something we came up with together to solve that.

Karen

tallulahjoy@...

This right here is so powerful...

"I hadn't established clear boundaries or limits for anyone, including for myself.  That, unsurprisingly, led to an open experiment when kids came to our place.  It wasn't their fault.  It wasn't the parents' fault.  It was mine for not understanding my own limits, and not having the strength and the compassion to make that clear to all, so that people could operate reasonably within those set limits."

While radical unschooling is the best lifestyle for some families, there are many reasons it won't work in other homes.   I am arrogant when I presume I've found the best lifestyle and feel sorry for others who don't live as I do.   There were limits on food and we ate on schedule when I grew up, yet I had a joyful childhood and never felt my naturally free spirit was being hindered.   My best friend's family kept a large glass candy dish in the living room full of orange gelled candy, which I ate by the handful when I visited.   I had been taught to "only take a few unless offered more" and no one else was eating the candy, so I would say that I should stop and not eat up their candy.   My friend's parents would laugh and say that they kept extra bags on hand just because I liked it so much, and to eat as much as I wanted.   I knew better than to rummage in private areas of the home, such as cupboards or pantry, and wouldn't touch food they'd prepared and left on the kitchen counter, and suspect that if I had done so, my friends' parents would have stopped me, let me know those areas were off limits, and redirected me to the candy dish in the living room.   They made it clear this dish of candy was made available for all guests, and then followed it up with the loving assurance that I could eat all I wanted and they had plenty.   

Sure, I was eating the candy with little control and likely it was because there were limits at home, but my parents were loving and attentive and raised me conscientiously to the best of their ability and understanding.   The candy I ate at my best friend's house became part of my treasured childhood memories and never led to a feeling of deprivation or dissatisfaction with my own home.

Spend some time with your family to determine your own limits with guests, and by all means, respect and support the parents of visiting children.   Rather than seeing those children as deprived, their family lifestyle is simply different.

Thank you, Karen James.   There is much wisdom in what you wrote.



anita_loomis@...

Thank you all for the insights, suggestions and questions to consider.  I am taking time to "digest" them all:-) 

I find it helpful to print out and re-read conversation threads multiple times to get the most from them.  I can leave the print out on the counter and get a quick read in when the moment opens up.  I will post back with an update after some reflection. 

Anita 

Sandra Dodd

-=-I find it helpful to print out and re-read conversation threads multiple times to get the most from them. -=-

The problem with that as a general piece of advice is that many times the most important part of a post is a link to a collection of clear information. In this case, maybe not. In general, if a print out would keep someone from reading a recommended link, than it could be a problem. :-)

Also, we're trying to help you change your thoughts and beliefs, and not trying to give you new rules to follow. Seeing what principles are at play in a situation is the goal, so that you can figure out other questions without asking every time. Asking is okay, but the responses will be about what you hope to accomplish, what your children hope to gain from a situation, how you can keep peace and still offer options, how you can see your responsibility to guests and family both... lots of aspects like that can be considered.

Sandra