Sandra Dodd

Someone applying to join the group described herself, and I wrote to Joyce (who corresponds with and approves new members) to say I didn't know what "an RIE-ish perspective" meant.

Joyce wrote this and said it was okay for me to share it with the group. If anyone wants to comment, please do. And if the person who wrote the phrase joins, we're not writing about you. You can join the discussion or just read or ignore it, but don't take it personally. :-)

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RIE = Resources for Infant Educare. :-P (I suppose it began as ideas for day care workers but I'm not curious enough to look.)

Actually there's some good ideas. But reading through how they're worded highlights how hard it is to explain how to support kids in growing when everyone is stuck on the need to teach kids. By trying to get people turned away from teaching they can flip around to "hand off".

The original ideas (since 1978):

http://www.magdagerber.org/blog/magda-gerbers-rie-philosophy-basic-principles

And then someone's translation into some clear statements:

http://www.janetlansbury.com/2013/12/rie-parenting-basics-9-ways-to-put-respect-into-action/

But the simpler the statement, the easier it is for someone to grab it and turn it into a rule. I can see how "We encourage uninterrupted, self-directed play" can turn into, "No, I can't play with you. It's best that you direct your own play."

It's hard to pull the ideas out of a larger context without them losing something. The "we" is weird and exclusionary. But maybe "Uninterrupted, self-directed play is valuable"? It might be an interesting exercise for Always Learning. :-)

Joyce

miranda.wann@...

I may prioritize self-directed, uninterrupted play, but I can think of many times when my actions (trying to coax my 10 yr old son  out of his room to go to the store with me comes to mind) show that I don't actually emphasize or support it. Clearly, self-directed, uninterrupted play is helping my son learn to code and create cool stuff in Minecraft. It is also helping him develop an online persona. He often interacts with the games he is playing verbally, and does do a bit of playing on a server.
 
What I have noticed, though, is that he has started to talk to himself in public places (library, walking down the street) quite a bit. I have said things like, "Do you see other people walking down the street talking to themselves?" and "When people see you talking to yourself, they don't expect it, and it may confuse them."
I talk about the differences between the things we can do in public and in private. 




My question is twofold. First, I wonder if I am making up the connection between the amount of time my son choses to play alone and his lack of social awareness. Second, any suggestions about my role as his partner   in navigating public spaces and social situations are much appreciated. 

Miranda

Sarah Thompson

What is it about his talking to himself that makes you uncomfortable? My son is a big talker, and is often verbalizing his internal narrative to himself while skipping around in his arythmic "excited dance." For all I know, others may attach a label to it, but no one has ever said anything that leads me to believe it is problematic. He, too, wants to develop and online persona, through Youtube, although he talks more *about* it than does he actually *do* any recording.

Sarah

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Miranda I still talk to myself. Now that I am older I may not talk out loud ( most of the time anyway) but I have done it all my life. No one has ever bothered me. 

My mom never did. Funny thing is that my son will talk to himself in his room when he is upset and my mom was worried about it one time. I pointed out I always did and turned out okay :)

She calmed down after that. She was worried about video games. She read too much stuff against it and in subconsciously she connected the too. Guess what? I did not play video games as a child or later. IT was not until I had my son and I am a older mom.
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 



On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 1:19 PM, "miranda.wann@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
I may prioritize self-directed, uninterrupted play, but I can think of many times when my actions (trying to coax my 10 yr old son  out of his room to go to the store with me comes to mind) show that I don't actually emphasize or support it. Clearly, self-directed, uninterrupted play is helping my son learn to code and create cool stuff in Minecraft. It is also helping him develop an online persona. He often interacts with the games he is playing verbally, and does do a bit of playing on a server.
 
What I have noticed, though, is that he has started to talk to himself in public places (library, walking down the street) quite a bit. I have said things like, "Do you see other people walking down the street talking to themselves?" and "When people see you talking to yourself, they don't expect it, and it may confuse them."
I talk about the differences between the things we can do in public and in private. 




My question is twofold. First, I wonder if I am making up the connection between the amount of time my son choses to play alone and his lack of social awareness. Second, any suggestions about my role as his partner   in navigating public spaces and social situations are much appreciated. 

Miranda



Joyce Fetteroll

> reading through how they're worded highlights how hard
> it is to explain how to support kids in growing when
> everyone is stuck on the need to teach kids.

This will go in a bit different direction than what Sandra posted but I think I'll work back towards it.

Unschooling is easy. It's natural! But explaining the ideas clearly -- unambiguously -- is hard.

It's hard because society is stuck on the idea that kids need things done *to*. Kids (supposedly) need taught to read, to be polite, to stop playing video games, to eat sweets in moderation, to be balanced.

It's hard because unschooling can sound like "Do nothing. Give your kids freedom. Learning everything will happen naturally."

Neither of those is true.

When Sandra wondered what RIE was I checked. Magda Gerber developed some ideas on infant care for daycare centers (which were the new thing back in the 70s). The good thing is that she saw that infants were more than lumps to be tended. She recognized that their curiosity and drive to understand their world was important.

Some of her ideas fit with unschooling. Some don't. Some when read from an unschooling mindset sound good. But when read from a school mindset, they take on a different meaning. Which highlights how hard it is to explain unschooling to people coming with a schooled mindset. (Which is practically everyone. We're *immersed* in messages to fix our kids childish ignorance.)

Gerber: "An environment for the child that is physically safe,
cognitively challenging and emotionally nurturing."

For unschooling "physically safe" is good. :-) I would add in emotionally safe. Kids shouldn't fear being hit by an adult or another kid. They shouldn't fear being shamed for choice that mom disapproves of.

The purpose of "physically safe" for unschooling is NOT to preserve kids' safety. The purpose is so kids don't fear exploring. I'll repeat that:

The purpose of feeling safe is so kids don't fear exploring. For learning flourish kids need to feel safe AND free to explore what fascinates them.

Kids' feeling of being safe is separate from their actual safety. Kids grasp pretty quickly that the world has hazards. They'll understand a few nos. But a mom can be so focused on keeping the child safe that the child feels caged. If a mom blocks a child's explorations with a buzz of explanations -- TV is bad, video games are addictive, commercial food is full of poison -- the more caged the child will feel.

Kids learning is stunted in cages. No matter how clearly a mom thinks she's explained the need for the cage, it's still a cage. If the cage prevents them from exploring interests that other kids are exploring, they will feel the walls more keenly.

So the original "environment for the child that is physically safe" could mean a cage with the child wrapped in bubble wrap. ;-) Better for unschooling is an environment where the child FEELS free to explore and IS safe.

If something isn't safe, the question is, "Can this be made safe?" If not, then, "What would be an even better substitute or alternative?" Then remove or avoid the item so the child isn't tempted by it until they can understand it's not safe.

Well, that was a lot of words spent on 2 words! Two seemingly clear words that sound good for unschooling, but can still lead away from unschooling. I'll tackle a couple more words in another post.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-Well, that was a lot of words spent on 2 words! Two seemingly clear words that sound good for unschooling, but can still lead away from unschooling. I'll tackle a couple more words in another post.-=-

Thanks, Joyce. It was really great. :-)

There's a whole world of feeling safe, being safe, being secure (my husband's preference—financial security, having insurance, savings, having extra milk in the extra fridge, and extra toilet paper in the garage. It makes me feel safe that he's always been that way.

Kids don't know those kinds of things. And they don't need to. But if the parents can contribute to what makes the other adult(s) and grown or teen kids feel secure, that adds to safety. Peace adds to safety.

Sandra