Not personable or sociable children
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I am pulling this that Sandra wrote on a discussion at the Radical Unschooling Info Facebook group:
<<<<<<<<<<It will not matter how great other people’s kids are if one’s own child isn’t sociable and personable.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have one child who is not sociable or personable. He is not a social terror just awkward and shy.
Sometimes he is just like his dad is. Sometimes his dad is social and personable and sometimes not.
So is my son.
He is not impolite or rude. He can be very sweet and I coach him and he does /will listen and do things I tell him are polite and proper.
But he is not a social guy or a personable guy.
He will be sweet and do things like help other kids. He waited for Serah's boys to come visit ( he would have gone to sleep) because I told him they wanted to meet him and see his gaming things. He will play with younger kids for a while and tell me when he is ready to be alone.
He is perfectly behaved at the dentist, doctor ( just had minor surgery in his toe awhile ago and was awesome) and when we go to Archery practice.
But he is 12 and a couple weeks ago misplaced a little cabinet key ( he did not put it back where it belonged) and his grandmother was really upset which let to a family brouhaha unfortunately. The issue happened between grandma and the parents. She was really nice talking to him and he was really nice talking to her.
He apologize for not putting it back and was very very sweet about it. They key was found with the candle he was using to light the other candles as his grandmother had asked him too. He just had it in his hand when she asked and when he was done he put the candle and the key down together. Still if grandma does not one anything touched he should not touch. I told him not to touch his grandmother things and he did not. That was when he was opening her little cabinets/displays and the key was used. She was there and that is when she asked for help and he went to help her happily .
Even with all that she assumed he had hidden or that her key was here in our house and she drove all the way here to ask and would not tell us the parents what was going on, which made my husband all upset.
I cannot imagine if my son had been rude about it all when she asked! But he was so nice and sweet and apologetic right away.
So what if we have awkward children that are in a way like a parent? Genetics, learned behavior?
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle.
<<<<<<<<<<It will not matter how great other people’s kids are if one’s own child isn’t sociable and personable.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have one child who is not sociable or personable. He is not a social terror just awkward and shy.
Sometimes he is just like his dad is. Sometimes his dad is social and personable and sometimes not.
So is my son.
He is not impolite or rude. He can be very sweet and I coach him and he does /will listen and do things I tell him are polite and proper.
But he is not a social guy or a personable guy.
He will be sweet and do things like help other kids. He waited for Serah's boys to come visit ( he would have gone to sleep) because I told him they wanted to meet him and see his gaming things. He will play with younger kids for a while and tell me when he is ready to be alone.
He is perfectly behaved at the dentist, doctor ( just had minor surgery in his toe awhile ago and was awesome) and when we go to Archery practice.
But he is 12 and a couple weeks ago misplaced a little cabinet key ( he did not put it back where it belonged) and his grandmother was really upset which let to a family brouhaha unfortunately. The issue happened between grandma and the parents. She was really nice talking to him and he was really nice talking to her.
He apologize for not putting it back and was very very sweet about it. They key was found with the candle he was using to light the other candles as his grandmother had asked him too. He just had it in his hand when she asked and when he was done he put the candle and the key down together. Still if grandma does not one anything touched he should not touch. I told him not to touch his grandmother things and he did not. That was when he was opening her little cabinets/displays and the key was used. She was there and that is when she asked for help and he went to help her happily .
Even with all that she assumed he had hidden or that her key was here in our house and she drove all the way here to ask and would not tell us the parents what was going on, which made my husband all upset.
I cannot imagine if my son had been rude about it all when she asked! But he was so nice and sweet and apologetic right away.
So what if we have awkward children that are in a way like a parent? Genetics, learned behavior?
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle.
Sandra Dodd
-=- So what if we have awkward children that are in a way like a parent? Genetics, learned behavior?
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle. -=-
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle. -=-
Your story didn’t sound so awkward.
And you did the coaching, and you’re present, and you don’t take him places he can’t handle.
What I was writing about in the other discussion was when someone has a child who is rude maybe partly by genetics, but it would be impossible to prove that when the parents are cheering rudeness on. But the parents will, sometimes in public, say “Unschoolers are courteous, and have taught classes, and can get along with people of different ages, and do volunteer work and are well respected.”
Some are. LOTS are. But if that parent uses that intro to imply that her own child is all those things, and then he is clearly NOT, then it won’t matter to that person’s neighbors or grandparents, or the owners of a hotel, what the summary of “unschoolers” is. They will 1) see that child being impolite and 2) figure the person who bragged up “unschoolers” is dishonest, perhaps.
As with most situations something that would have been true with “Some” or “lots” (a qualifier) becomes UNtrue when it is stated as a universal truth.
I was calling for people not to encourage rudeness. It doesn’t seem to me, Alex, that you do.
Sandra
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Still he opened and closed her cabinets/displays and it was perceived as him being a child that needed to be "dealt' with.
And I am very sensitive about how my children are perceived. IT maybe because I chose to do something different and I need to prove that it works?
It makes me upset when things like that happen. Normal children stuff one would say. The kid is 12.
It maybe because he is not personable or social and people always expected him to act older than he is because he does not look his age. I have seen many kids older act their age and no one makes it a big deal at the same time my kid acts his age and people look at him like he is terrible.
It maybe my issue. Maybe I am the one feeling judged and sensitive.
But seriously I thought what he did was not terrible and he listened when I told him not to touch. He still opened a few doors and closed them to look inside as everyone was there until his grandmother asked for help. He was not sneaky and was super super gentle but it is her house and her things and if she does not want it he should not do it. I have no problem with that.
She saw his actions as something very bad and malicious.
And I am very sensitive about how my children are perceived. IT maybe because I chose to do something different and I need to prove that it works?
It makes me upset when things like that happen. Normal children stuff one would say. The kid is 12.
It maybe because he is not personable or social and people always expected him to act older than he is because he does not look his age. I have seen many kids older act their age and no one makes it a big deal at the same time my kid acts his age and people look at him like he is terrible.
It maybe my issue. Maybe I am the one feeling judged and sensitive.
But seriously I thought what he did was not terrible and he listened when I told him not to touch. He still opened a few doors and closed them to look inside as everyone was there until his grandmother asked for help. He was not sneaky and was super super gentle but it is her house and her things and if she does not want it he should not do it. I have no problem with that.
So maybe my question is how do I not feel so anxious and upset when we are not perfect? or I was not perfect as to prevent the key being misplaced?
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 6:41 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
-=- So what if we have awkward children that are in a way like a parent? Genetics, learned behavior?
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle. -=-
I do the coaching. I am present . I don;t take him places he cannot handle. -=-
Your story didn’t sound so awkward.
And you did the coaching, and you’re present, and you don’t take him places he can’t handle.
What I was writing about in the other discussion was when someone has a child who is rude maybe partly by genetics, but it would be impossible to prove that when the parents are cheering rudeness on. But the parents will, sometimes in public, say “Unschoolers are courteous, and have taught classes, and can get along with people of different ages, and do volunteer work and are well respected.”
Some are. LOTS are. But if that parent uses that intro to imply that her own child is all those things, and then he is clearly NOT, then it won’t matter to that person’s neighbors or grandparents, or the owners of a hotel, what the summary of “unschoolers” is. They will 1) see that child being impolite and 2) figure the person who bragged up “unschoolers” is dishonest, perhaps.
As with most situations something that would have been true with “Some” or “lots” (a qualifier) becomes UNtrue when it is stated as a universal truth.
I was calling for people not to encourage rudeness. It doesn’t seem to me, Alex, that you do.
Sandra
chris ester
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:33 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY polykowholsteins@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:>>>>> So maybe my question is how do I not feel so anxious and upset when we are not perfect? or I was not perfect as to prevent the key being misplaced?Alex Polikowsky<<<<<<<I think that a start is just your awareness that YOU have work to do. I have had many of the same feelings of wanting to be "perfect" and, of course, not attaining the impossible.I have found that remembering to be as kind to myself as I try to be to my husband and children is helpful. Taking a breath before speaking or reacting to something someone said, especially if it is someone who is good at pushing my "buttons" (of defensiveness for example) even when they don't mean to do so. Sometimes, I need a second breath and it seems like I have been standing there for HOURS and in fact it has only been seconds to take two little breaths. Those breaths do help me think more clearly and respond more calmly and kindly.Chris
kirkpatrick clare
" So maybe my question is how do I not feel so anxious and upset when we are not perfect? or I was not perfect as to prevent the key being misplaced?"
I'm interested in this. Is this a trait common to all parents? To take it personally when our children aren't considered to be perfect? I know I do it - if my children don't behave like perfect adults in company, especially with certain people who I feel more judged by than others, I often feel very anxious and upset and embarrassed by less-than-perfect behaviour. Things get lost. Things get forgotten. Adults lose things. Adults forget to be polite. Adults make mistakes. I wonder why 'we' (as a culture, as parents in that culture) feel so threatened when children do the same? I try to coach my children to not touch other people's things without asking first...but sometimes they forget or I forget or they're so caught up in the moment of wanting to see something or a game that even remembering that the stuff isn't theirs gets forgotten. When I become aware, I coach. Until that point...well, how can I? How could you?
Sometimes at work I forget to get a job done and I have to hand it over to the next shift. Sometimes I say to a patient 'I'll be with you as soon as possible' and I get caught up in something else and forget. I go home feeling like a bad nurse but I know I'm not. I'm just a human nurse. I'm a human parents too and my children are human parents. Sometimes we get it wrong...but how not to feel anxious and upset and stay 'professional' about it in the moment?
Clare
I'm interested in this. Is this a trait common to all parents? To take it personally when our children aren't considered to be perfect? I know I do it - if my children don't behave like perfect adults in company, especially with certain people who I feel more judged by than others, I often feel very anxious and upset and embarrassed by less-than-perfect behaviour. Things get lost. Things get forgotten. Adults lose things. Adults forget to be polite. Adults make mistakes. I wonder why 'we' (as a culture, as parents in that culture) feel so threatened when children do the same? I try to coach my children to not touch other people's things without asking first...but sometimes they forget or I forget or they're so caught up in the moment of wanting to see something or a game that even remembering that the stuff isn't theirs gets forgotten. When I become aware, I coach. Until that point...well, how can I? How could you?
Sometimes at work I forget to get a job done and I have to hand it over to the next shift. Sometimes I say to a patient 'I'll be with you as soon as possible' and I get caught up in something else and forget. I go home feeling like a bad nurse but I know I'm not. I'm just a human nurse. I'm a human parents too and my children are human parents. Sometimes we get it wrong...but how not to feel anxious and upset and stay 'professional' about it in the moment?
Clare
On 11 December 2014 at 03:43, chris ester chris.homeschool@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:33 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY polykowholsteins@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:>>>>> So maybe my question is how do I not feel so anxious and upset when we are not perfect? or I was not perfect as to prevent the key being misplaced?Alex Polikowsky<<<<<<<I think that a start is just your awareness that YOU have work to do. I have had many of the same feelings of wanting to be "perfect" and, of course, not attaining the impossible.I have found that remembering to be as kind to myself as I try to be to my husband and children is helpful. Taking a breath before speaking or reacting to something someone said, especially if it is someone who is good at pushing my "buttons" (of defensiveness for example) even when they don't mean to do so. Sometimes, I need a second breath and it seems like I have been standing there for HOURS and in fact it has only been seconds to take two little breaths. Those breaths do help me think more clearly and respond more calmly and kindly.Chris
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm interested in this. Is this a trait common to all parents? To take it personally when our children aren't considered to be perfect?-=-
I keep hoping I’ll grow out of it, when my kids are grown. The youngest is 23, and still… :-)
Tara & Sky
The difference that I see, is that conventional parenting reacts by trying to fix the child under the guise of a "teaching moment". And telling the child that they'll have someone to fix when they become parents.
Unschoolers, though, as shown here almost immediately, react by seeing, acknowledging their own reaction, and reflecting on opportunities for growth and learning within themselves.
What a contribution toward that goal of raising undamaged children.
~Tara
Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 5
-------- Original message --------
From: "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]>
Date:12/10/2014 8:27 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Not personable or sociable children
-=-I'm interested in this. Is this a trait common to all parents? To take it personally when our children aren't considered to be perfect?-=-
I keep hoping I’ll grow out of it, when my kids are grown. The youngest is 23, and still… :-)
Lisa J Celedon
Sometimes when adults overreact or make assumptions or have suspicions that are later proved false, they might feel a little silly or embarrassed. Even if they never say so.
Nobody is perfect.
Lisa C
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Sandra Dodd
-=-Sometimes when adults overreact or make assumptions or have suspicions that are later proved false, they might feel a little silly or embarrassed. Even if they never say so.
-=-
You mean Alex’s mom, about what had happened to the key?
I think there should always ALWAYS be extra keys available to every single thing. I have a filing cabinet with one single key, and it’s disturbing. ;-) When any of my kids go out of town with one of the cars, I remind them (irritatingly perhaps) to take an extra key. I’m one of the people who, if a key is missing, gets kind of frantic, so I understand the feeling.
Twice Keith and I have driving across town quickly (onece two towns away) because Holly locked keys in the car. :-) I locked my grandmother’s keys in the trunk of her car once, but my dad knew how to get in and open it (being a car-fixing kind of guy). Memories and personal memories can cause a streak of trauma, too. :-)
-=-Nobody is perfect.-=-
True, but it’s not a good mantra for improvement. :-)
When I practice being more patient it’s easier for me to appreciate that in others, too. :-)
Sandra
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<<<<<<You mean Alex’s mom, about what had happened to the key?>>>>>>>>>>>>
I wish it was my mom's keys!
You met my mom Sandra, she would be the one excited about the kids looking and wanting to see her things. My mom my not get ALL about unschooling but she is pretty on board with most of it !
This was Brian's mom. I have never ever talked about unschooling with her. We homeschool and I do not tell her anything about it and when she used to buy workbooks for the kids I would thank her for it and say nothing. Hey the kids even did a few pages here and there but mostly just sits in a shelf if they want to look at it.
I think because we unschool I do have something to prove in a way. Or better yet I feel I should be an example. There is enough bad media that goes around once in a while about unschooling thanks to some people that want to promote themselves as Unschooling 's Spokersperson.
When I calm down I do think I am doing a good job. My kids are happy and learning so much. They are pretty amazing.
Daniel is shy and awkward and takes after his dad and me in many ways. Sometimes I have quick moments I think maybe I should have done things differently. All I have to do is think how it would have been if I had sent him to school or parented him differently and those few seconds I was in doubt are gone.
I can say that he would probably not be this happy kid that saves kittens and wakes up smiling and telling me what he was gaming the night before that made him go to be at 3 AM.
This was Brian's mom. I have never ever talked about unschooling with her. We homeschool and I do not tell her anything about it and when she used to buy workbooks for the kids I would thank her for it and say nothing. Hey the kids even did a few pages here and there but mostly just sits in a shelf if they want to look at it.
I think because we unschool I do have something to prove in a way. Or better yet I feel I should be an example. There is enough bad media that goes around once in a while about unschooling thanks to some people that want to promote themselves as Unschooling 's Spokersperson.
When I calm down I do think I am doing a good job. My kids are happy and learning so much. They are pretty amazing.
Daniel is shy and awkward and takes after his dad and me in many ways. Sometimes I have quick moments I think maybe I should have done things differently. All I have to do is think how it would have been if I had sent him to school or parented him differently and those few seconds I was in doubt are gone.
I can say that he would probably not be this happy kid that saves kittens and wakes up smiling and telling me what he was gaming the night before that made him go to be at 3 AM.
On Thursday, December 11, 2014 6:34 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:
-=-Sometimes when adults overreact or make assumptions or have suspicions that are later proved false, they might feel a little silly or embarrassed. Even if they never say so.
-=-
You mean Alex’s mom, about what had happened to the key?
I think there should always ALWAYS be extra keys available to every single thing. I have a filing cabinet with one single key, and it’s disturbing. ;-) When any of my kids go out of town with one of the cars, I remind them (irritatingly perhaps) to take an extra key. I’m one of the people who, if a key is missing, gets kind of frantic, so I understand the feeling.
Twice Keith and I have driving across town quickly (onece two towns away) because Holly locked keys in the car. :-) I locked my grandmother’s keys in the trunk of her car once, but my dad knew how to get in and open it (being a car-fixing kind of guy). Memories and personal memories can cause a streak of trauma, too. :-)
-=-Nobody is perfect.-=-
True, but it’s not a good mantra for improvement. :-)
When I practice being more patient it’s easier for me to appreciate that in others, too. :-)
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-This was Brian's mom.-=-! Oh!! Never mind. :-)
No, still… it’s hard for someone who has overreacted to come back calmly and say “I was So wrong!”
-=-All I have to do is think how it would have been if I had sent him to school or parented him differently and those few seconds I was in doubt are gone.-=-
Well sure. :-) I really was picturing your mom in the story, but now that you mention it and I think back, I DID know it was your mother in law, but I don’t know how to picture her. :-)
At the beginning of Amy Child’s program/podcast about teens, there’s a story that might apply to your kids. Lots of kids. About those awkward middle years, for unschooled kids. :-)