CASS KOTRBA

I have a daughter, 12, and a son, 10, who went to public school until 2.5 years ago.  The main reason my daughter left school was due to social distress.  Not just with one group, person or situation but a general, pervasive unhappiness.  I offered to homeschool my daughter if she preferred to leave school & it was during this period that I discovered Unschooling.  What a gift Unschooling has been to our entire family.  My son left school shortly after my daughter and our family has been blissfully healing and exploring ever since.
 
We are a family of shy, introverted people.  We don't do a lot of socializing as a family and we are all usually content to be at home with each other and our various interests, hobbies, etc.  Each of my kids has one special friend that they socialize with one on one but we don't seem to have much opportunity for socializing in large groups.  We live in a small community with an even smaller homeschool community and none of us have clicked with anyone in that small circle.  My daughter has a nice group of girls that she enjoys skyping and gaming with online.  My son does not. 
 
Late this summer, around her 12th birthday, my daughter started to express a deep sense of boredom with everything that she had previously been interested in.  I spent time & resources doing new things with her and trying to help her find a new spark & new ideas/interests.  Her best friend had started home schooling about 1 1/2 years after we did which had worked out nicely for us.  This spring the friend's little brother had a very serious health condition that required the mom & brother to stay in and near the hospital 2 hours away for the past 6 months or so. As a result, the friend returned to school late this summer. 
 
This year is the 1st year of middle school for the kids Jade went to school with.  That means all the kids from the surrounding elementary schools are funneled into a larger school.  New building, new kids, changing classes during the day, 25 minute bus ride at the beginning and end of each day.  My daughter's friend went back and loved it.  She told my daughter all about how awesome it was and Jade decided this was an experience she did not want to miss.  She has been back in school since mid-September and in general she is having a blast (not that she is loving every aspect of her experience but she seems to be adept at compartmentalizing the more negative aspects.  So far, anyway).  I have had quite a few mixed emotions about it and have spent quite a bit of time in reflection but the bottom line is that she's enjoying it & knows each day that she is going by choice.  I understand that my role is to support her in every way that I can with this chosen activity, even if it wouldn't be my first choice of activities for her.  Actually it has been pretty interesting to watch her.  Her approach to school is so different from the kids who are there because they have to be.  
 
Jade comes home each day filled with stories of her experiences at school.  Primarily the stories are about the other kids and silly things they said or did.  My son hears these stories and feels like he is missing out on all of that fun.  Jade is clear about the idea that her primary reason for being in school is to socialize.  She is in a phase where she likes to be loud and have funny things trigger uncontrollable laughing fits that go on for several minutes.  The bus rides to and from school seem to her to be a particularly good outlet for this. 
 
All of Jade's stories and uproarious laughter trigger a curiosity and a certain amount of jealousy for her brother.  He is thinking that he would like to try going back to school next year, middle school for him.  I am fine with him doing that if he wants to but I do have some concerns about how well that environment will fit with his temperament as a long term experience.  He & I were just talking about it and he was expressing that he doesn't really want to be in school but he thinks that it is the only way for him to get those fun social experiences.  He does play baseball and football but he is shy around the other boys and mainly sticks by his buddy/safety net.  Jade does the same thing at school with her friend when she is able to.  But the other girl's mother has expressed that she intends to homeschool the friend again next year, now that the brother is doing well.  And I don't know how much say the girl will have in the matter.
 
I do not have a way of providing the social atmosphere of school at home, as far as I can see.  I think my kids are seeing "having friends" in a schoolish context.  That to "socialize & have friends" should look like it does in school.  I guess that's what it boils down to.  So is there a way to help them deschool this idea?  I think one of the things they like about socializing in the school environment is that being in that setting makes it easier to be with other people without the pressure of having more than brief one to one interactions.  For Jade, she seems to observe a lot and talk directly to other people only once in a while.  Does that make sense?
 
Thanks in advance for your insight,
Cass

Sandra Dodd

CASS KOTRBA

I am still hurting and am trying to figure out a way to put it into a question that makes sense and will be helpful.  

I have this image in my mind of school being like a sausage factory.  You bring your healthy, happy, intact child in the front door for Kindergarten, then the school starts tenderizing & chopping the child's psyche, self image, etc.  They mix in a large dose of expectations, judgement and opinions - that is the seasoning.  By the time the child comes out at the end of the process they have been thoroughly mixed up & squeezed into little sausage casings with a graduation cap on top.

We felt the pain & discombobulation of being involved with that mechanism, followed by the relief of stepping outside & realizing that we don't have to become sausages.  We saw a new path & embraced it.  My fear is that now that Jade is back in school she will get sucked back into the mechanism.  It feels like her brother is going to hold her hand & get sucked in as well.  I feel frightened that we will all get sucked in, lose our way and start to become chopped up like sausage meat.  I'm not sure that I am strong enough to hold it all together.  I realize that that sounds quite violent but the experience feels violent.  

I can already see parts of Jade becoming injured.  It's so hard to watch her being hurt and feel powerless to stop it.  I want to take her hand and run in the other direction.  But she doesn't want out.  Not yet, anyway.  I feel trapped.  I can't stop what is happening and I can't protect her from it.  One choice that I have is to support her but I don't know if that's enough.  Is that enough?  Am I enough?  Sometimes I feel so small and I'm not sure if I'm strong enough...

What I really want to know is if we'll be ok.  I know there is no crystal ball.  But if anyone has any insight or experiences to share with me that would be welcome.

I hope I'm not just rambling.  ;D

-Cass

F

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Hi Cass.

 There is a difference from her being in school without a choice and being there as a choice. I understand that you guys had not unschooled for long and she was just recovering and starting to heal and went back to school.
But still it is her choice.

This also may change if her best friend does come home next year. While she is at school I would make her life very sweet and make her brother's life ( who is at home) even more sweet and fun so she sees that it could be awesome to be home.

I think she really loves to be around other girls and boys. Maybe find groups to get involved that would fill that need so she does not need to go to school to meet kids in a regular basis.
I know you said you guys like to stay home but maybe that was not working for her.

She did like to talk about all the social aspects of school with my daughter. She told my daughter about the popular kids in school.  Gigi , who had always said she wanted to see how school was, did go to school one day a couple months ago.

She loved the social aspect.  She met a girls she clicked and loved it.
Lucky Girls Scouts, 4H started again and we got busy with more kids and she was happy to be home. She does like to be busy and be with other kids and if I get complacent ( as I like to be home a lot)  she does not get her needs met.

I cannot say Jade won't be hurt or harmed from being in school but this is her choice and supporting her and making her life so wonderful outside school I am pretty sure is your best option  and  much different than her not having a choice or a supportive home . Hugs.
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Friday, December 12, 2014 10:57 AM, "CASS KOTRBA caskot@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
I am still hurting and am trying to figure out a way to put it into a question that makes sense and will be helpful.  

I have this image in my mind of school being like a sausage factory.  You bring your healthy, happy, intact child in the front door for Kindergarten, then the school starts tenderizing & chopping the child's psyche, self image, etc.  They mix in a large dose of expectations, judgement and opinions - that is the seasoning.  By the time the child comes out at the end of the process they have been thoroughly mixed up & squeezed into little sausage casings with a graduation cap on top.

We felt the pain & discombobulation of being involved with that mechanism, followed by the relief of stepping outside & realizing that we don't have to become sausages.  We saw a new path & embraced it.  My fear is that now that Jade is back in school she will get sucked back into the mechanism.  It feels like her brother is going to hold her hand & get sucked in as well.  I feel frightened that we will all get sucked in, lose our way and start to become chopped up like sausage meat.  I'm not sure that I am strong enough to hold it all together.  I realize that that sounds quite violent but the experience feels violent.  

I can already see parts of Jade becoming injured.  It's so hard to watch her being hurt and feel powerless to stop it.  I want to take her hand and run in the other direction.  But she doesn't want out.  Not yet, anyway.  I feel trapped.  I can't stop what is happening and I can't protect her from it.  One choice that I have is to support her but I don't know if that's enough.  Is that enough?  Am I enough?  Sometimes I feel so small and I'm not sure if I'm strong enough...

What I really want to know is if we'll be ok.  I know there is no crystal ball.  But if anyone has any insight or experiences to share with me that would be welcome.

I hope I'm not just rambling.  ;D

-Cass

F


D. Regan

Let go of the negative image about school.  School doesn't have to be like that for your family.  Clinging to that image is ensuring that you live with negativity and fear.  It is separating you from your daughter who doesn't share the image.  

Choose to see your daughter instead.  See her, her joy, her concerns, her hesitations, her enthusiasms, her excitement and so on.  Be grateful she's able to pursue her interest.  Be grateful that she gets to see her friends more.   
Being more open and more present will help bring more joy, learning and connection to your family.

Even though school is not something you're drawn to yourself, be interested in her interest.  Look for ways to enhance it, just as you did when she was home more and interested in other things.  Make her world as big and awesome-to-her, as you can.  

:)
Debbie.


I have this image in my mind of school being like a sausage factory.  You bring your healthy, happy, intact child in the front door for Kindergarten, then the school starts tenderizing & chopping the child's psyche, self image, etc.  They mix in a large dose of expectations, judgement and opinions - that is the seasoning.  By the time the child comes out at the end of the process they have been thoroughly mixed up & squeezed into little sausage casings with a graduation cap on top.

We felt the pain & discombobulation of being involved with that mechanism, followed by the relief of stepping outside & realizing that we don't have to become sausages.  We saw a new path & embraced it.  My fear is that now that Jade is back in school she will get sucked back into the mechanism.  It feels like her brother is going to hold her hand & get sucked in as well.  I feel frightened that we will all get sucked in, lose our way and start to become chopped up like sausage meat.  I'm not sure that I am strong enough to hold it all together.  I realize that that sounds quite violent but the experience feels violent.  

I can already see parts of Jade becoming injured.  It's so hard to watch her being hurt and feel powerless to stop it.  I want to take her hand and run in the other direction.  But she doesn't want out.  Not yet, anyway.  I feel trapped.  I can't stop what is happening and I can't protect her from it.  One choice that I have is to support her but I don't know if that's enough.  Is that enough?  Am I enough?  Sometimes I feel so small and I'm not sure if I'm strong enough...

What I really want to know is if we'll be ok.  I know there is no crystal ball.  But if anyone has any insight or experiences to share with me that would be welcome.

CASS KOTRBA


Thank you so much, Alex & Debbie. <3

-=- While she is at school I would make her life very sweet and make her brother's life ( who is at home) even more sweet and fun so she sees that it could be awesome to be home. -=-

Yes - I have been focusing on and will continue to focus on that.

-=- Let go of the negative image about school. -=-
-=-  See her, her joy, her concerns, her hesitations, her enthusiasms, her excitement and so on.  Be grateful she's able to pursue her interest.  Be grateful that she gets to see her friends more.   -=-

I love this and do understand what you're saying.  I have been trying to keep myself focused on being positive, excited, open, supportive, etc.  I guess I'm just having an extra hard time staying positive recently due to changes I've been observing.  She seems run down, her unhappiness & insecurities are increasing.  Her asthma has been getting steadily worse & it seems we're back to needing nightly nebulizer treatments.  That is a return to where we were when she was in school before.  When we were deep into unschooling she almost never had trouble with her asthma.

Two nights ago she was writing something for instagram & asked if I thought she should post it.  I may be paraphrasing a little but it said:
I know you hate me
I know you think I'm weird
but I can't help being who I am.

:(  I said that I didn't think people hated her.  She said that she's pretty sure that some people do.  I told her that those people don't really know her & she should try not to take it personally.  I said that everybody probably feels that way sometimes but reminded her that she does have people who care about her there.  She's not sure about that.  There seems to be so much negativity in her life now.  

When she first went to school she would mainly talk about the fun things.  That has gradually transitioned to more negativity and insecurity.  And it's hard to watch.  I will be a bright light for her full of love, acceptance & laughter.

-=-Maybe find groups to get involved that would fill that need so she does not need to go to school to meet kids in a regular basis. 
I know you said you guys like to stay home but maybe that was not working for her.-=-

She does want more social outlets outside of school but so far we have been unable to find anything that she wants to be involved with.  I've been hoping that she might make some new friends and find some new interests through school.  She has met a few people and reconnected a bit with others so some of her experiences are still positive.  I hope that if the negative starts to outweigh the positive she will decide to come home but will bring some new connections home with her.

She's been unhappy socially, off and on, for a long time.  Finding a fun, supportive group of girls online has been great for her.  I will continue to look for & hope for other opportunities she might be willing to try.  In less than 2 years she will be able to get a part time job & I think that is something that holds promise.

I think that she would be more likely to join a group if I were the leader of the group.  I'm willing to start a new group if that helps her.  Maybe a new 4H troop?  (She's done the girl scouts & does not want to be involved with that anymore.)  I mentioned the 4H idea to her & she wasn't enthusiastic but she didn't say no.  My concern is that if we start a group, recruit other kids & then she changes her mind we are in an uncomfortable spot.  And so much depends on which other kids join.  She has strong opinions about who she wants to spend her time with.  The older the kids get the more difficult it seems to be to find a group.  Are there other groups or social activities that people have had success with for kids around the 12 year range?

I wish I had some kind of magic wand that would make everything easy and happy for her but since I do not I will continue to be grateful for the wonderful unschooling tools and people that I do have access to.  I am so, so grateful for that.  I will continue to look for outside opportunities and interests for her.  Most importantly I will continue to be here for her with a big hug & a big smile.  She does know that she has choices and she knows she's not alone, which is huge.  :-)  One thing that I do know for sure is that things are always changing for her and this is just a difficult spot we are in right now, it's not forever.

Thanks for listening to my rambling.  :-) <3 <3
-Cass


CASS KOTRBA

Getting to an unschooling conference this summer would probably be helpful.  What conferences are coming up this summer?
-Cass

Sara Evans

As far as conferences, my introverted 13 year old looks forward to the Waterpark Gathering at Kalahari in Ohio (USA) every year.  It often falls right on her birthday in May, too! 

This year will be our 5th time attending but it wasn't until the last one that she really branched out and met new people there.  I remember the year before feeling like we had tried but probably wouldn't attend again because she spent much of the time in our hotel room.  I'm glad we went again.

Sandra@...

Summer conference question...

This is an international discussion.   Where do you live?  Naming conferences might not help you. :-)  Naming conferences on other continents, especially. :-)



CASS KOTRBA


-=-  Where do you live? -=- 

Colorado.  I know we just missed the Albuquerque one, which would have been close, but the timing wasn't good for us.  :-D  Summer would be the easiest time for us to travel.
-Cass

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

What about a girl group ? Maybe a gaming group that meets once a week or every 2 weeks?
Something related to what she likes.
That way if you need to close down the group it is not something like 4-H.

Maybe start by inviting her friends over for a get together . Get some crafts, gaming, whatever they like set up and help facilitate.
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:24 PM, "Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


HSC’s conference near San Jose will be in August.
http://www.hscconference.com/main.html

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CASS KOTRBA

I had an opportunity to take a long, hot bath and think about all of this.  I had some new ideas that I wanted to share.

I think that perhaps going back to school is not a deviation from unschooling for her but a continuation of her deschooling.  All of our deschooling.  One nice thing (and there are many, this experience has not been all bad) is that it has become clear to Jade that she is not missing anything academically by not being in school.  She states that she much prefers to learn things the unschooling way.  She is starting to trust that she is more than capable of learning everything she needs at home, in her own way. 

This experience has helped the whole family to trust & understand unschooling concepts more fully.  When Jade went back to school I was afraid that I might lose my way & not be able to translate unschooling principles to a schooling life.  That has not been the case.  I  realize now that I do not need to fear losing unschooling ideas as they are not simply ideas that I have been playing with.  They have become a part of who I am.  

It's good for me to remember that I may not be perfect but the concepts behind unschooling are.

-=- What about a girl group ? Maybe a gaming group that meets once a week or every 2 weeks?
Something related to what she likes. -=-

I don't want to over state my feelings about this but Alex, I love you.  :-) You & Gigi have been such a gift to our lives.  <3.  I don't know how I didn't think of this before.  It's like it was on the tip of my tongue, the cusp of my awareness.  The more I think about it, the more I like it.  I'm thinking a mixed gender group so that it could also benefit my son who is only  1 1/2 years younger than his sister and shares many interests. I'm going to think about this some more & possibly start a new topic asking for specific ideas.  The idea is starting to flesh itself out in my mind...  there are definitely monkey platters in this vision...  :-D

One question I have - what could I call it besides a "gaming group" which would sound really good to the other parents.  Something that sounds smart & educational to the parents but not tedious & boring to the kids.
-Cass

Sandra Dodd

-=-One question I have - what could I call it besides a "gaming group" which would sound really good to the other parents.  Something that sounds smart & educational to the parents but not tedious & boring to the kids.-=-

Serious Play Group
Exploring Ideas Club
Games and Logic Group
Social Connections
Connect the Dots
Kid Adventures 

(Some of those might be the names of websites or camps—I would look around to make sure it’s not going to sound like something already out there.)

Joyce Fetteroll


On Dec 13, 2014, at 5:37 PM, CASS KOTRBA caskot@... wrote:

what could I call it besides a "gaming group"

Are you certain "gaming group" wouldn't work? If you call it something fun and educational it will draw parents looking for something educational for their kids addicted to games. They'll be irritated if it turns into a "gaming group". Kat and I found the groups that were upfront about being centered around kid interests drew kids whose parents had an interest in supporting their interests even if they weren't unschoolers.

You could call it a gaming group then describe some of the things that might happen besides gaming, like discussion and challenges and online etiquette.

Joyce

CASS KOTRBA

Quick update - Angelina (the friend) was here yesterday so I asked the 3 kids about the idea of some kind of gaming group & they're into it!  Jade asked "Can we do it right now?".  :-) It was already 4pm so I told her it was a little late but we could start figuring out the details if they wanted.  We quickly came up with a guest list, a list of game ideas, some food ideas & a date.  (This coming Friday.)  

We made the invitations already & ended up calling it a "Gamers Gathering".  We'll see how it goes and make necessary adjustments as we go.  They're excited & so am I!!!  It feels so much better to be doing something active to try to improve life than it did sitting around worrying about it!!  

Thanks so much,
Cass

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

That is exciting! You can always add board games, outside games ( creating an Angry Birds with cardboard boxes or Mario obstacle course) in the Summer, and crafts with gaming themes ( those beads you iron, permanent markers on cups, and more)
Good luck!!
 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 


On Sunday, December 14, 2014 8:55 AM, "CASS KOTRBA caskot@... [AlwaysLearning]" <[email protected]> wrote:


 
Quick update - Angelina (the friend) was here yesterday so I asked the 3 kids about the idea of some kind of gaming group & they're into it!  Jade asked "Can we do it right now?".  :-) It was already 4pm so I told her it was a little late but we could start figuring out the details if they wanted.  We quickly came up with a guest list, a list of game ideas, some food ideas & a date.  (This coming Friday.)  

We made the invitations already & ended up calling it a "Gamers Gathering".  We'll see how it goes and make necessary adjustments as we go.  They're excited & so am I!!!  It feels so much better to be doing something active to try to improve life than it did sitting around worrying about it!!  

Thanks so much,
Cass