Sandra Dodd

-=-Another concern is the standard estimate of needing to deschool for 1 month for each year of schooling.  At that rate he’d be almost 18 by the time he had school well out of his system.  But that’s really a separate question for a separate post.  -=-

That was from a topic called “Question about addressing behavior” about someone who was just removed from “11th grade at a charter school.”

So let’s guess conservatively—that he was in school for ten years (no kindergarten, just a bit of “11th grade”).

Ten months of SERIOUS relaxation, no pressure, would get him to the point that he might again be curious about what you would consider academics.  Maybe after ten months of non-schoolishness, he would feel like writing for his own enjoyment.   Maybe he could read a book without constant thoughts of whether it would be worth credit if he were in school, whether it’s below his grade level, or whether it’s going to be on some test somewhere.

Maybe.

But the mother of someone whose child has been in school for ten years as accrued that school time PLUS her own.  A parent who was in school for ten or twenty years will take a year or two to deschool, and that’s only if he or she is consciously guarding against starting all over following some burst of panicky schoolishness.

So if parents can’t or don’t intend to deschool, it will be difficult or impossible for the child to.

If parent AND child are deschooling—if the parent is protecting the child’s environment so that deschooling can happen—it will take a year or more.  That can’t be sped up.  It can only be prevented.

Sandra

mama25kids@...

Another mindset that can interfere with deschooling a teen, especially one who is leaving high school with only a year or two to finish, is the idea of College Preparedness. If your son (or you) has the idea that at 18 he "should" be ready to launch into college it can become a barrier to letting go of school-ish thinking. College-immediately-follows-high school is a sacred tenet of The School Narrative. Broken down and looked at critically, all of modern day school (at least in America) builds on itself: elementary school prepares the student for middle school which prepares the student for high school which prepares the student for college which prepares the student for A Career/Success/Happiness (trade schools have long been cut out of The Narrative, and alternate, undefined paths were never part of it). 

The point of deschooling is to help a child (AND the parents) heal a broken relationship to learning. Sandra's analogy about healing a broken leg by resting rather than walking on it is so powerful when you consider that the effect of school on very many children is a broken experience of (and/or relationship to) learning. The more severe the break, the more time, space, and tender mindful care needed to provide the mending. 

I would strongly encourage such parents to encourage any teens who are just starting the process to put thoughts of the future, especially any college or career tracks, on hold indefinitely. Truly take a hiatus from the whole forward tllt of schoolish thinking and immerse oneself in the now. Explore ideas, ponder interests, try lots of possibilities. Don't get stuck or sidetracked by the arbitrary timetable for Independence and Success that has been fostered and promoted by school think.

~ Leah Rose

Sandra Dodd

Leah’s post was great, and important

-=- If your son (or you) has the idea that at 18 he "should" be ready to launch into college-=-

If you or your son think he should be going to college soon, just bypass all else and let him start community college classes.  If there will be pressure on him to go to the university, don’t tease him with a year or two off.  Let it be an early school leaving, instead of unschooling.

As Leah suggested, if you do want to deschool and change your relationship with learning, and with your son, don’t pressure him about anything age-related.  Let him go through stages of recovery and growth in a rehabilitative way.

Sandra

hcdearmore@...

Thanks a lot for this insight, Leah.  I think my 23yo could benefit from a time of deschooling.  Although he did very well in school, and has just gotten a degree in history, he is foundering and doesn't really know what to do next.  I'd love to give him some space to just decompress and find the next natural step.  I'm not sure how receptive he'd be to such a suggestion, though, as he feels he should be out on his own but I think it scares him.  How well I remember basically being kicked out by my parents when I turned 18. 

D. Regan

I think my 23yo could benefit from a time of deschooling.  Although he did very well in school, and has just gotten a degree in history, he is foundering and doesn't really know what to do next.  I'd love to give him some space to just decompress and find the next natural step.  I'm not sure how receptive he'd be to such a suggestion, though, as he feels he should be out on his own but I think it scares him. 


Since he's 23 you're not in a position to help his deschooling in a way that parents of younger children are.  I would focus on your own deschooling as much as possible.  It won't directly help him much, but it will help you to be an available resource for more grounded and creative ideas than those he's lived with till now.  

It won't help for you to try to convince him of anything.  Instead, be supportive of him.  I would especially look to be supportive around any glimmers of things that pique his interest.  Supportive; without being invested in any particular outcomes.  Offers, rather than "suggestions".

:)
Debbie.


Sandra Dodd

I just found this in drafts.  Maybe it will be useful to someone. :-)  I wrote it November 9.


-=-Unschooling *doesn't* look like kids working on school independently. It looks like exploring interests. It looks like play. That's how we naturally learn. And it works really really well. After all nature has had several million years to perfect it ;-)-=-

Joyce wrote that elsewhere; I brought it here. :-)

-=-At that rate he’d be almost 18 by the time he had school well out of his system. -=-

He will never have school well out of his system, because he went for at least ten years.  He might have gone for 11, or he might have had pre-school or daycare.

School will never leave him.  No matter what we do or say, the potential for the benefits of unschooling goes down the longer the child is in school.  Some of the ids we’re writing about were never in school at all.  Some of the benefits we write about are (sadly but inevitably) only going to be fully present in those who were unschooled from the beginning.

STILL!  Some is better than none.

But if you goal is that he will be completely deschooled, it will be yet another failure.

sukaynalabboun@...

Thank you, Sandra! Absolutely helpful to me- my oldest is almost 17, but we started unschooling at nearly 14. Sometimes I have worried (inside) about how long and hard deschooling has been for her, versus the two younger ones. I have always put the worry aside and looked at her, as her interests flouish and her behaviour has mellowed and seemed more like "her", as she began to resemble the uninjured child we sent to school. To others, though, it looks like lots of drawing, painting, reading, playing guitar, and they look at me with the what about SAT's look. It can help to read that,yes, it will look like that AND take longer for her, so thanks!

janine davies

I have wanted to share this for a month or so now, and this seems a very relevant thread to share it on.

My 12 year old son during this first two years of unschooling seemed to me in some places/areas to maybe be having the longest period of deschooling ever... (he was in school for 4 years in all). It has been SO helpful to read and realise that ''some is better than none'', and that this is normal and to be expected of a child who has been in the 'system' longer,  but it has been painful in places.....

But.... Really recently he walked down the stairs and said 'I get it mum.' 

'What do you get?' I asked. 

I get that it's ok to listen to myself. I get thats it's ok to do what I feel I want to do and is right for me, and I get that I am really learning about myself now. Emoji Emoji

He has found it very tricky in places to let go of the 'handbook' (a Canadian friend of mine uses this expression and I like it - she says us english have the toughest version of it of all!).

Anyway he has fought and defended that 'book' with us in places, which is kind of funny really as he is the one who has led the way to this path so determinedly and obstinately even at times. 
But since coming home, and while deschooling, we have had some quite belligerent arguments from him about the need to be 'normal' and follow the crowd. He has wobbled more than I thought he would to be honest...and clung onto the old.

But I get why, and have done some reading on it (thank you Joyce and Amy among others). My partner and I try to stay calm in these moments and just answer him from an unschooling perspective - but as his loving parents though - not detached and schooly! I hope! 
And my partner is good at using humour and lightening it all up for him. But it has been fraught and challenging in places, especially his frustrations, and upsetting for us all at times. 

We felt a bit tethered still in places, as if he were still holding onto the rope - scared to let go of it fully.

Some of this unschooling life he has slipped into like a glove, like the good fit unschooling is for him, and that we hoped it would be, and knew instinctually (when I finally listened to those instincts...).
The playing! Oh the playing - this boy was born to play and has always been so inventive and imaginative and such fun with it! and he grasped the freedom to explore to the far corners all of what he loves with both hands and ran with it.
Feeling and being safe and comfortable, being able to run and jump outside whenever he wants too - even in the dark and rain! Taking baths after lunch and watching films in the wee small hours, so much of it he has embraced beautifully and joyfully.
 
But....he/it... is still his own worse enemy in places, he couldn't quite shake the 'hand book' jacket off. He found it painful, I found it painful. 

I have been recorded by Amy Childs actually talking about the regret, but I found it too upsetting, and exposing? I think? to recount and hear, and also couldn't quite put my finger on some it because I got so emotional when talking! 
My deep feeling son picked up on it too, and as I felt it all over again and got a bit stuck in negativity again for a while, so he picked up on my feelings without knowing why, and it wasn't good for me or him - we were not ready yet. Maybe it was this change that I/we needed to happen first....
It is on hold for now or maybe never, and as she said with each day, month, year it will change for the better even more, and will always be relevant and maybe be even better and more helpful later on.

He found our new generosity from unschooling one of the hardest to handle (and the letting go of the clock, and limiting, and being able to choose wether to attend/do things or not, and the punishing and controlling sometimes too...).
 
Tough for me as my childhood was very limited and controlled and dominated over with fear, and full of 'We can't afford it' and "I don't want spoilt kids'...) and I was doing just that for a good few years there...So I have loved the freedom of letting that go, found it so liberating and healing, and enjoy the joy from them when I bring things home or find things they love and get them for them - I love to see their faces light up and the big hugs I get, and the I love you's and 'best day ever' exclamations! 

But very momentously he also said.... "I get that I am not spoilt if I get bought gifts from you, or get things I want and need if I ask for them. Im not spoilt because I have you and your time and love whenever I need it every day, so the gifts and stuff are an extension of that love not a replacement for it and your time! 

He said he understand the paucity thing too - and has a friend who has kind of ruined their friendship lately through jealousy of my sons allowances (gaming mainly - the unlimited time and the games he is allowed to play) which is sad for them both, but it has really shown my son what limiting and controlling can do....and also he is horrified that his friend is 13 and still gets a five minute warning for bedtime from a parent while they are playing online and in full ear shot of my son...Ouch!

I seriously never thought I would hear him speak this way or hear him say 'I get it'  I just hung on to words of experience like these of Sandras  >>>STILL!  Some is better than none.<<<  
And Amy who said ''yes but imagine how much worse if he was still in school and being parented by the hand book....'' And Joyce and Pams helpful words on this area.

I wanted to write about it almost immediately but I thought I would leave it a while and see where he is with it, and I can report that he is still on this new path of thinking and having realisations a new almost daily now. He points things out that he has seen and heard and understood from an unschooling Vs mainstream perceptive, most of it he finds quite upsetting and gets very fired up about! He has always had a strong sense of justice and I believe it has driven him and us to this path.

He still falters a little and I remind him its ok as he had the 'handbook' schooling and parenting for a while there, and anyway questioning and chatting it through is helpful and where a lot of the learning is. But we don't have to talk for long or even at all anymore before I quickly see the smile of recognition and he hugs me, and he literally skips off shouting 'I love life!'

Its the lessening of the anxiety that is the biggest result though and was also the deepest pain for me and his dad....gulit, regret, wishing we could rewind, go back, have found this earlier.....this is such a relief that he is thinking this way and sharing it with us - I am very grateful and relieved. 

And along with some deep healing for myself through unschooling that has occurred this summer its has been a fantastic way to end this year! and again a huge victory for our family and our absolute faith in this way of living. 

He really has been bouncing around saying I love life! and I love my awesome parents! 

I know and accept that school will never leave him, or the parenting/life 'hand book' fully either - but 'some' really is WAY better than none thats for sure! 
Janine x








To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 19:15:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling for a teen

 
I just found this in drafts.  Maybe it will be useful to someone. :-)  I wrote it November 9.


-=-Unschooling *doesn't* look like kids working on school independently. It looks like exploring interests. It looks like play. That's how we naturally learn. And it works really really well. After all nature has had several million years to perfect it ;-)-=-

Joyce wrote that elsewhere; I brought it here. :-)

-=-At that rate he’d be almost 18 by the time he had school well out of his system. -=-

He will never have school well out of his system, because he went for at least ten years.  He might have gone for 11, or he might have had pre-school or daycare.

School will never leave him.  No matter what we do or say, the potential for the benefits of unschooling goes down the longer the child is in school.  Some of the ids we’re writing about were never in school at all.  Some of the benefits we write about are (sadly but inevitably) only going to be fully present in those who were unschooled from the beginning.

STILL!  Some is better than none.

But if you goal is that he will be completely deschooled, it will be yet another failure.

Sandra Dodd

Janine, that was sweet.

If, later, you want to write something for this page, when you get to another plateau of looking back on it. I would love to have a summary of your progress (and regret, when it’s not so painful):

http://sandradodd.com/ifonly

Sandra

janine davies

That page on your website and the one in your 'Big book' made me cry when I first read them....I remember feeling panic rising often in those first few months, and using all I had in me to really focus on looking forward with positivity. 
And applying your wise words of 'turning right away' from the guilt, negativity and regret so it did not cloud progress, and get in the way of my determination to really 'get' unschooling as fast and deep and as clearly as possible for my then 10 yr old.

I will write soon as I am almost there with the next plateau, and even more excited for the days ahead. 

It just keeps getting better and better! Emoji

Janine x








To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 09:44:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling for a teen

 
Janine, that was sweet.

If, later, you want to write something for this page, when you get to another plateau of looking back on it. I would love to have a summary of your progress (and regret, when it’s not so painful):


Sandra