Nitya Nixon

Hello everyone,

I'm asking on behalf of Barbara Smith (Home Education Foundation NZ) and hoping someone can help with this... in NZ we are in a unique & positive position at the moment with our Ministry of Education, who are keen to smooth out the process of gaining an exemption from school and dealings in general.

The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. This is very positive as in the past it was up to the individual officer to approve or not, rather than the standardised training for staff across the entire country we are looking at today.

What the regional head office has requested is a short video that best portrays or describes unschooling, so they can present this to the local offices as part of their training package for their teams.

Does anyone know of a good video that covers the above??

Thanks in advance!
Nitya

Sandra Dodd

-=-The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. -=-

I’ve never known a jurisdiction to separate unschooling from homeschooling.  Could you tell us more about what you’re being asked or what’s being planned? 

-=-The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. This is very positive as in the past it was up to the individual officer to approve or not, rather than the standardised training for staff across the entire country we are looking at today. 
-=-

Would some families apply to homeschool with a curriculum and others would apply to unschoo!?

I have this, but I don’t know if it’s anything like what they want.  I was talking to people who already know what unschooling is.

http://sandradodd.com/video/doright

The terminology they should be looking at is The Open Classroom (as far as an educational method goes).

There’s a new movie about unschooling.  Pam Sorooshian has seen it.  The filmmaker might be willing to offer a copy for use; I have no real idea if that’s legally or practically doable.

Sandra



   

Pam Sorooshian


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Sandra Dodd Sandra@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
There’s a new movie about unschooling.  Pam Sorooshian has seen it.  The filmmaker might be willing to offer a copy for use; I have no real idea if that’s legally or practically doable.

Maybe the documentary film that Jason Marsh made some years ago, Sandra? It is called, "Unschooled." His contact information is public - jhmarsh@...

The new movie is "Class Dismissed"  which would be really good, too. Unschooling dad Jeremy Stuart is the director. It is available for theater screenings, but the DVD's aren't available yet.

pam

pam

Natalie Spooner

<Would some families apply to homeschool with a curriculum and others would apply to unschoo!?>

 

No, there is no separate law for homeschooling vs unschooling.  

It’s just that the law is worded, here in New Zealand, such that in order to legally homeschool we must submit an application that satisfies the Ministry that the child will be ‘taught at least as regularly and well as in a registered school’.

 

The application format is not very prescriptive at all, so the format of everyone’s application can be totally different.

I imagine it is a fairly easy thing for a regular homeschooler to ‘satisfy the Ministry’ by listing the details of the curriculum and timetable they are using whereas a homeschooler has to describe their integrated approach.

I gather they are wanting like an ‘unschooling 101’ type video so that staff who might be totally unfamiliar with the concept can have some type of basis to assess applications that don’t use a curriculum or structured approach.

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 November 2014 6:16 p.m.
To: Always Learning
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Short video that describes unschooling?

 

 

-=-The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. -=-

 

I’ve never known a jurisdiction to separate unschooling from homeschooling.  Could you tell us more about what you’re being asked or what’s being planned? 

 

-=-The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. This is very positive as in the past it was up to the individual officer to approve or not, rather than the standardised training for staff across the entire country we are looking at today. 

-=-

 

Would some families apply to homeschool with a curriculum and others would apply to unschoo!?

 

I have this, but I don’t know if it’s anything like what they want.  I was talking to people who already know what unschooling is.

 

 

The terminology they should be looking at is The Open Classroom (as far as an educational method goes).

 

There’s a new movie about unschooling.  Pam Sorooshian has seen it.  The filmmaker might be willing to offer a copy for use; I have no real idea if that’s legally or practically doable.

 

Sandra

 

 

 

   

Joyce Fetteroll


On Nov 4, 2014, at 1:39 AM, 'Natalie Spooner' nataliespooner@... wrote:


The regional head office would like to train local national offices 
on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption 
application in particular.


If unschooling were easy to understand, a video explaining it might work. But even people who want to unschool have a hard time wrapping their heads around how it works. 

The getting of unschooling involves more than clear explanations. It involves a willingness to not just question what you believe is necessary for learning but a willingness to let it go.

If some in the ministry are hostile to learning that doesn't look like school, even a clear explanation of unschooling will sound like neglect to them.


in order to legally homeschool we must submit an application that
satisfies the Ministry that the child will be ‘taught at least as regularly
and well as in a registered school’.


There are similar regulations in some states in the US. In fact the wording sounds similar to the regulations in my state. What works best is for unschoolers to band together to come up with ways to describe what they have done (or will do) in a way that satisfies the regulations. 

Sandra has some plans linked here:

http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum

In fact there's one from New Zealand linked there:

http://sandradodd.com/curriculum/NZ

Joyce

Angeline Taylor

Even with a video the ministry will then look for whatever they take away from the video. For example say the ministry officer has watched the video and now has a personal interpretation that unschooling involves lots of field trips to museums but the unschooling family he's going to deal with doesn't live near many and is unable to afford to go often. Are they then not a "correct or good" unschooling family in the eyes of the ministry officer. He might find them neglectful because it doesn't look like his ideal in the movie. And since he isn't invested in these children he's not going to go out of his way to de-school himself. His bias could be very harmful after watching a film even if it showed several unschooling families. 

My point is that unschooling looks so different for everyone because it is just that unique to the family and the children who are unschooled. It would possibly by better and safer for unschoolers to be educated on how to present what they do in a way that satisfies the ministry as far as general homeschooling requirements.  We have a few states her in the US that require us to do that. 

Good luck and I wish all of NZ the best in the outcome of this. 
- Angie 
Sent via iPhone please excuse typos 


On Monday, November 3, 2014, Nitya Nixon nityanixon@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:
 

Hello everyone,

I'm asking on behalf of Barbara Smith (Home Education Foundation NZ) and hoping someone can help with this... in NZ we are in a unique & positive position at the moment with our Ministry of Education, who are keen to smooth out the process of gaining an exemption from school and dealings in general.

The regional head office would like to train local national offices on how to process/read and approve an unschooling exemption application in particular. This is very positive as in the past it was up to the individual officer to approve or not, rather than the standardised training for staff across the entire country we are looking at today.

What the regional head office has requested is a short video that best portrays or describes unschooling, so they can present this to the local offices as part of their training package for their teams.

Does anyone know of a good video that covers the above??

Thanks in advance!
Nitya



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brmino@...


----It’s just that the law is worded, here in New Zealand, such that in order to legally homeschool we must submit an application that satisfies the Ministry that the child will be ‘taught at least as regularly and well as in a registered school’.——


I can’t help it, but I think it is an incredibly bad idea to attempt to differentiate between unschooling and homeschooling for this purpose.  Anything you show them, about unschooling, will seem like you’re saying all the things they believe in about children and learning are untrue, that they’re not needed, that “education” isn’t a real thing. I think you’re walking on dangerous ground by even mentioning unschooling - it’s their job to make sure all children receive a “proper education,” and hoping that a short film could convey why it’s okay when a child doesn’t read before 9 years old, or how rich life is in the absence of “subjects,” seems completely delusional. I can’t help but think you’re going to make things much, much worse.


Think about it, how could a government official, in charge of education, ever come out and publicly say that, basically, “you can do what you want. It doesn’t matter if you never teach your children to read or write or do math, because they’ll obviously (from this short video) learn all that and more just living life! Gosh! I guess this whole Ministry that I oversee is irrelevant for unschoolers"


Bend to show them that you, the parents, are able to describe your children’s education in words that they’ll understand, regardless of what you call it.


Brie

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I would NOT send a video neither would I used the word Unschooling,

I would use  terminology like Sandra pointed out :
"Open Classroom approach"
and other educationese terms and apply to unschooling.


 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

Nitya Nixon

What prompted this process was a complaint sent to the MoE about an unschooling family here in NZ. It was handled very badly because staff didn't understand unschooling and don't have anything in their 'requirements' to cover this type of learning.

From that experience, MoE and our Home Educators group started talks and from that has come a strong committment from MoE to improve the exemption process and understand all types of learning, unschooling included.

MoE is conducting a survey to better improve their processes for homeschooling families.
They want to train all officers across the country to understand and better process exemption applications. (up to this point, individual officers could be supportive or not, it was very arbitrary, new staff would take over without proper training and would try to stick closely to requirements, or demand new requirements; it needs improving!)
As a final improvement, they will be updating their 'requirements' to include other styles of learning - this is incredibly positive.

In the past, natural learning style families have had to effectively 'schoolerise' their exemption application, especially if the officer who would accept/deny their application wasn't a supportive one.
With requirements about to change to include natural learning, our Home Educators Group & MoE has requested unschooling families write their exemptions honestly, without school'isms, so that local minstry officers can become more experienced in approving them. National head office MoE has commmitted to stepping in and training staff correctly if natural learning applications are met with resistance by an officer.

Yes unschooling/natural learning (the term being used by MoE and our Home Educators Group) is a life philosophy and I'm guessing some MoE staff will still not understand it completely, but this is a great step in the right direction. With requirements changing, they need some way to pass on this philosophy and practical application to staff. Hence their request of a short video to explain what it is and how it works.

Thankyou for the link to your Doing it Right video Sandra, I was hoping you'd have something up your sleeve of amazing resources! And thanks also Pam, I'll contact Jason Marsh.
Will look for some videos on open classroom also. And the NZ exemption on your website is great thanks Sandra, unschoolers in NZ often reference it (I did!). :-)

Will let you know how we get on!

Sandra Dodd

-=-As a final improvement, they will be updating their 'requirements' to include other styles of learning - this is incredibly positive. -=-

That IS!

-=-In the past, natural learning style families have had to effectively 'schoolerise' their exemption application, especially if the officer who would accept/deny their application wasn't a supportive one. 
With requirements about to change to include natural learning, our Home Educators Group & MoE has requested unschooling families write their exemptions honestly, without school'isms, so that local minstry officers can become more experienced in approving them. -=-

Very nice.

A long time ago when I used to register to homeschool (Holly was never registered), we were required to include our school calendar.  I would copy the local public school’s calendar and include that.  Then one year I said that I didn’t want to be dishonest, and that we weren’t following a schedule but that they learned every day.  So heartfelt.  It was filed by some minimum-wage clerk who probably didn’t read it anyway.  :-)

Sandra 

Sandra Dodd

-=-I would NOT send a video neither would I used the word Unschooling,-=-

Avoid “Child-Led Learning,” too. :-)

If the ministry is already using unschooling, then it won’t shock them so much, but it should probably be described as well as you can.  Maybe they could borrow some phrases from here:

http://sandradodd.com/definitions

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

I had posted this recently on Facebook

What learning looks like—hard to photograph!  

I was interviewed by the local paper when my kids were all double-digits (+/- 12, 14, 16, I think) and they wanted to send a photographer to take pictures of my kids "doing unschooling." At home. I told them where all my kids were, or would be, that afternoon, all doing photographable, photogenic things (a Harry Potter card game tournament, boffer fighting in an arroyo above that dam where Jesse waits for a ride in Breaking Bad, teaching karate), but no, the editor had no interest in THAT. They wanted photos of them at home, learning. I said it would just look like someone sitting in front of a computer, or in front of a TV, if they came to the house the next day.

Here's a fun video I forgot I had on my site, from Wales, a few years ago, about what learning looks like:

http://sandradodd.com/learningallthetime.html