rinelle@...

We've been unschooling for a few years now, and after a year or two of working it out (and asking lots of questions on here), things had been going pretty well. But suddenly things have fallen apart, and I feel like we're right back where we were 3-4 years ago, and I don't know why.


There have been some stresses around our house with my husband having some medical issues, which have meant I haven't been able to give my daughter quite as much attention as she had before that, but she seemed to be coping quite well until a few months ago. She's also just turned 10, and is obviously going though some huge growth spurts (clothes suddenly too short, and complaining a lot about mysterious pains that disappear after a few minutes), so I'm wondering if that, or maybe the start of hormonal changes (none obvious yet) are contributing as well. We also have some budget concerns, and money is quite tight.


I'm really feeling at a loss as to how I can help her, and feeling quite distressed that she's so upset. She's started saying things like "I don't want to live with you anymore," and even "I wish I was dead." And yet, half an hour later, she'll randomly say how happy she is.


I don't know how to respond when she's upset, and she seems to not be able to find a way out herself, getting more and more upset, to the point where she's screaming and crying. 


Perhaps a more concrete example will help. Today we spent the day out shopping with two of my daughters friends and their mum. We were out for about 3 hours, and towards the end, my back was getting very sore. I spent as much time finding places to sit down and rest it as I could, but though I felt better sitting, it wasn't improving. The other mum was ready to head home anyway, so I told my daughter it was time to go. She asked if her friend could come home in our car (which we often do), but I said not today because my back was sore. (It isn't on our away home, and my daughter always wants to get out and play when we get there). I just didn't feel up to it.


My daughter started crying and telling me we had to, and she wasn't going to go home if I didn't agree. The other mum knows my daughter pretty well, and just said bye and headed off. I tried to explain to my daughter that I just wasn't up to it today, but it didn't help, and she was upset all the way back to the car, and part of the way home. 


She was fine when we got home, and went off to play the Sims. Unfortunately, while she loves some aspects of the game, she also finds it really frustrating. The map she wanted to play freezes a lot and I've been unable to find out why or fix it. So she decided to start a new game, and wanted a cheat to get money, but couldn't get it to work. I helped her look it up, and we found it why it wasn't working and fixed it. Then my daughter got frustrated that the items she wanted (in terms of game stats) didn't look nice. She wanted me to decorate her sims house for her.


I don't mind playing the game with her (I like Sims, and played it myself before she was born), but I felt that nothing I did in the game was going to make her happy (since I couldn't change how the game worked), and no matter how I made the house, she wasn't going to be happy.


I think this is probably the point at which I need some ideas on what to do. I feel like I'm stuck. If I do what she asks, she's going to be upset at what I make, but if I don't, she's upset that I won't help her. If I sit down and ask her questions about every little step, that upsets her too. 


I can't see any other options, even though there probably are some. I just feel trapped, so I end up arguing with her (and telling her what I said above, that I'm concerned she's going to be upset at me no matter what I do), and it just goes downhill from there, until we’re both yelling at each other. 


Then it's like all the stress has been released, and she’ll pull out her ipad, watch some YouTube, have something to eat, and be over it. Like it never happened. She doesn't want to talk about it, or solve it, or anything. I can get that, and understand it, but it leaves me feeling a little flat. I have no closure on the issue, or any way to deal with it in the future, and find it really hard to just let go of it like she does.


I don't know where things changed, or how to bring them back to where they were a few months ago. I thought unschooling would help make the teenage years pleasant and happy, but now I'm beginning to doubt it. (Not that I think traditional parenting or school would make them any easier!) I think I just need some outside eyes to help me figure out what I'm missing, and how I can make some better choices in the moment.


Tamara

Joyce Fetteroll

I think you see the underlying cause. Hormones. The family stresses. She's a child. She's coping, not doing well, which is why there are bursts of emotion.

But you're not seeing the part you're playing. You're seeing her emotions as signals that you're failing. So you're getting upset that she's upset. But her emotions aren't about you. They're about her and what she's feeling. They're communication, not an

Don't feed off of her emotions. Make the changes you can in her environment. But in the between times when things aren't working, you be what she needs. You be the calm, patient, understanding stability she can't manage yet.

When she's upset, she doesn't need you upset because you can't fix her. She needs you to be understanding that sometimes our wants are bigger than the universe can provide.

> The other mum was ready to head home anyway, so I told my daughter it was time to go.


It sounds like you were trying to create an illusion that everything was going fine around her. Then when you couldn't take your back any more you suddenly burst it without warning. No matter how gently you burst it, it still robbed her of the chance to absorb that the playdate was moving toward the end. She might still have been upset, but you would have avoided springing it on her.

There are some transition ideas here:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html

> I thought unschooling would help make the teenage years pleasant and happy


Unschooled kids still have hormones! ;-) It's just that their parents aren't making the time worse by tearing at the relationship and blaming the kids for being emotional.

Have you read Mira Kirshenbaum's Parent/Teen Breakthrough?

http://tinyurl.com/kmxh8fw

It may not help with the current emotions, but parents shouldn't wait until the teen years to read it.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

Please come back, Joyce:


-=-But you're not seeing the part you're playing. You're seeing her emotions as signals that you're failing. So you're getting upset that she's upset. But her emotions aren't about you. They're about her and what she's feeling. They're communication, not an      
-=-

You trailed off. :-)

Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll


On Jul 4, 2014, at 5:37 PM, Joyce Fetteroll jfetteroll@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

But you're not seeing the part you're playing. You're seeing her emotions as signals
that you're failing. So you're getting upset that she's upset. But her emotions aren't
about you. They're about her and what she's feeling. They're communication, not an 

Oops, sorry!

They're communication, not an evaluation.

Joyce

hedyhanni@...

Tamara, I too am relatively new to unschooling as I'm a mom to a six year old son and so we're really just getting started on this mostly wonderful, but for me and my son too (I think and percieve) sometimes disconcerting and confusing journey, and I very much relate to some of you and your daughter's current struggles and challenges. 

 Specifically, my son has been grappling with huge feelings of anxiety, sometimes hopelessness, and the newer emotion for him of self-described rage, which I've come to understand more as a greater, more hopeless or less articulated sense of fear, betrayal, and or frustration. 

Like you and your daughter, I'm aware of it's source as coming from his greater life experience right now and family/marital stresses mostly due to an ongoing medical condition related to his kidney which he's had for his entire life but became suddenly exacerbated in the past year and a half and has required a ridiculous amount of medical intervention which even still has yet to resolve in either an accurate diagnosis let alone remediation or cure. 

 The entirety of this experience has essentially and startlingly thrust more him, but his father and I as well, into a place of unknowing and ongoing worry and fear alongside my son's experience (what I have come to understand through days and months of talking and feeling through with him) of his body essentially betraying him and forcing him to have to do things that nobody else he knows has to do: drink 50 oz water a day, regular ER visits and hospital stays, I.V.s, blood tests, pee tests, etc.)  It has angered and scared him and ultimately brought on a bigger exploration/struggle for him of all the real and possible times and places in his life where he feels scared and angry and hopeless.

 Lately, he many times daily describes himself in a place of not feeling able to cope with or understand, and questioning all of his feelings. Though the medical component doesn't directly relate to your daughter, it does relate to her in the sense that she too seems to be struggling with feelings of loss of control, anxiety and frustration, and a blanket anger somewhat directed at you because you're her mom. Maybe even for the first time in her life you can't "fix" it, or more accurately the many raw emotions she's dealing with and "has to" deal with. 

I've come to realize, at least for my son, that my bearing the brunt of his anger is because it's really the first time in his life experience that his mom can't make it all better, and feels for him (and me too honestly) as a kind of betrayal. This, I was only finally able to fully articulate for myself and for him just today as I've sought ways to help him navigate his emotions--feelings that really do scare and often derail me. 

 Because I am finally able to really see the source of his anger toward me and its reasons, I feel more able to stay calm through his bouts of rage and understand better why they feel so devastating: "I can't deal with this," "sometimes I just feel like I'm a bad person," "I'm never gonna get through this" "sometimes I just wanna hurt myself" to give a few examples of what he says, much like the things your daughter has expressed to you. 

 When I came to this revelation today and was able to relate it more clearly to my son, he was immediately calmed down. I was finally able to really assure him: that I understood, that he is having a "normal" experience (important to him), that he is getting through and learning to cope with these feelings and fears, that he WILL get through, and that as he does, his brain "muscle" (neurons) and heart "muscle" will be even stronger and more knowing of how to navigate the times like these he confronts in his future. Much like riding a bike, it becomes a skill we never lose but only get stronger and better at. 

 Also, and more directly related to the unschooling component of this discussion is that unschooled kids have time, far more time than their schooled peers to think and feel..and sometimes ruminate. Ultimately their emotional intelligence, I think, is and will be comparatively higher than kids whose entire existence is compulsory so that one more thing they're not in control of or "just have to do" flies lower if even registering on schooled kids' radar. 

While in contrast, I think, unschooled kids who nearly always and on principle have the opportunity to make choices for themselves about their time, interests, bodies etc. may have a "harder" or more expressive time, at least sometimes, dealing with those things out of their control or necessarily necessary or the necessary "no"s, be they leaving play dates, navigating the frustration of having a game freeze up...again, or going to the ER...again, and make it so that the maybe more "mature" forms of differentiation most commonly experienced with teen years happen potentially earlier in unschooled kids.

 Like you too--though I haven't ever posted before--this group has been an absolute boon and buoy in my path as a parent as much as an unschooling parent. I am beyond grateful for the mass of wisdom and wealth of clarity and insight this forum brings my life. I read the threads daily, and utilize so much of the insights I've read on here as daily mantras in my striving to create the joyful, vulnerable, choice and yes-filled nurturing family I so much want for my son. 

Thank you to all of you Sandra, Joyce, Alex, and so many others who volunteer your hearts and wisdom and time to us less experienced and (still) more-schooled journeyers! And thank you too Virginia for telling me of this forum's existence. I am filled up with gratitude for all of you! I converse with you regularly (in my own head and in unsent emails). You daily help and guide me--so much, Thank you! 

 A few map markers and precious wisdoms I've carried through reading these threads that might help when you feel like things are falling apart (and in my own, undoubtedly sometimes still flawed interpretation and understanding) : 

 1. We have an intrinsic right as much as duty as unschooling parents to embue joy and abundance in our lives and our children's lives. 

 2. If, in moments, we cannot find or perceive that joy, we can still make the "better" choice to at least temporarily look away from the fear that keeps us from it, in promise of returning to those fears when we can more "clearly" articulate and therefore "see through" them more calmly and clearly. We always have, at the very least, a "better" choice. 

 3. As unschoolers especially, we have time. Time to talk and think through things with our kids, to turn toward them and hang out with them, and calm down with them and love and enjoy them for who they are--not for who we fear or hope they are or will become. We have time to think more clearly and wait until we can and do. I've learned so much simply talking to my son (and gained so much joy!) 

One example, really trying to get to the crux of my son's fear and rage right now--at least as much for me as trying to simply end it which I really still personally struggle with wanting to do--is that because of my own fears, I assumed my son's biggest challenge through this medical morass was, at root, his fear of dying (my biggest fear for him) and which was unfortunately put out as a possibility within earshot of him on our first ER experience at an inept out-of-town hospital. Turns out, through lots and lots of talking and spending time with his worries and frustrations is that he's not as much afraid of dying as he is of feeling pain--dying or not. 

 Because of this clarity, we've found ways to alleviate any pain in his medical experience by driving further to the better hospital that offers nitro gas for IV placement and blood draws. And I can now promise him we will always seek the painless way, even if it's not in said hospital's policy book. That I can promise him my advocacy and bulldog-mama-nature to assure him a pain-free medical experience. 

I needed to leave my own rote assumptions aside and start asking clear questions and really listen outside of my own fears to get to my son's own real-life solutions and therefore ability to manage and cope with this part of his life that's mostly otherwise choice-less. I'm so glad I could! 

 4. Clarity of thoughts and words is abundantly important. Our word choices are clarifying and articulating and can ultimately pull us through our fears (or without it keep us in them) during the times when we feel like we, our kids, or just everything is "falling apart." 

 5. "Falling apart" sometimes/often means that something else is growing. That older, more habitual, less better ways are exchanging for better and best ways that really do work. 

 6. Frustration is sometimes impetus for great "explosive" learning. In kids whose lives are filled with choices, frustration and outrage often means they are ripe for change and growth and new learning. Suddenly they have their energy and effort conjoined to get there and that can be startling and scary for all of us. Frustration is often the beginning of something new and unknown, but better and more. My son has taught me this! 

 7. Sometimes it's best for us and our kids if we use fewer words--most especially when we find ourselves mired in fear or lack of clarity ourselves, or when we need or choose to set boundaries with our kids which could otherwise turn into lectures and criticisms. Just as when our kids are setting boundaries with us that we might otherwise take or are taking personally. This is a hard one for me, but Sandra's insight here is so wise and I'm really working on it, wordy as I am. 

 8. . If something really doesn't work, try something else. Don't allow our own "stuck" stories of what falling apart is: "this is just a nightmare," "my kid's not 'normal'" "I can't handle this" keep us stuck doing what's not working. Know that we have the time, we have bright, beautiful moments amidst the struggle. 

We have wonderful exploring, striving, thinking, learning, fallible kids who are authentically "allowed"to be all of those ways. Know we can and are making better and best choices in every and any next moment--and that we want to. Our efforts WILL amount to something worthwhile, tangible, and "successful." 

 9. Watch: (really look at) our kids, ourselves, those wiser and more chartered than ourselves (ie. Always Learning unschooling parent-pros, the friend or comrade with whom we strive for our best selves). And notice! 

 Wait: until clarity arrives, until calm resides, until new ideas take root and gain momentum or otherwise wither. Until fresh ideas replace the ones withering. 

 Listen: to ourselves and our stuck, programmed words that go round repetitively and keep us there, for our expansive thoughts that lend clarity and bring calm and new skills/mechanisms for abundance, to our children and their real words, outside of our fears for and assumptions of them. 

 Listen for the questions that breed answers--and more questions. The ones that don't probably aren't really questions but rather fears, judgements and assumptions cloaked as questions. 

 Try: in the moments, when it's "just not working," for the better choice, for creative solutions, for calm and clarity and peace and abundance. 

 9. Trust: that we can get there, that our kids have an inherent trustworthiness and profound ability to navigate themselves with the help and assistance of us, their adoring parents. And that we too can be trustworthy to them and ourselves. 

 These are my interpretations of what I've learned from the many threads I've read of this group. I'm a noob (as my son would call me), but I'm so happy in learning and striving and getting clearer thanks to you all on this thread. I hope my long-winded first post, in turn, offers back something of value to some of you.

 I am so grateful that I get to de/unschool--myself with my son. I'm also grateful that unschooling doesn't make everything easy all the time because that would make it the stuff of fantasy. I love the struggles and their outcomes as much as the easy gifts that come with this or any parenting journey, or at least try to. I am learning and growing alongside my kid and that's the part that "just feels right" about our choice to choose the less-chartered territory of unschooling, and all the ways my and my son's life and heart are more and better-filled because of it. The strife and struggles of life and love and parenting remain--and I'm "in it" right now: everyday feeling a bit let down by myself and the ways I still lean in and sometimes even cave completely into fear, anger, disengagement, a need for control and certainty, or hiding from the judgments of the larger human society I live within. And my very real fear for my son and my own personal rage about his situation.

 I'm more and more certain every day that simply choosing this "way,"-- which my son asked for and still wants--is truly my and my son's better choice. Amidst his now peeing blood clots every two months or so, and hospitals and all the yucky unknowing and scary stuff, I get to be with him, where we both mutually choose to be--together! Even within this hardest stuff I've ever faced as a human being and mother and the sometimes, now many-times- daily paralysis my son experiences when seized by confusing, overwhelming emotions and thoughts, we get to be together: gaming, watching YouTube, taking long walks, going to the pool, museums, the water slides and even  just the grocery store when most of his friends are at school. We take long drives, cuddle up and sleep beside each other, just stay home because home feels safe and comforting--sometimes even for weeks or a whole month at a time! We get to go on mini and big vacations without the worry of school schedules. We're talking, loving, and growing and cracking each other up. We're learning! And, we're alongside each other! 

 This is the stuff of courageously choosing another way. It is scary and brave and joyous and controversial and wonderful and insighting. This is real, it gets to be the fantasy stuff of reality because we're all daring enough to make the whole world our schools and our playgrounds! 

 Thanks beyond thanks for paving the way Sandra and all you brave, seasoned unschoolers devoting your confident hearts to this thread, and thanks for being out there and striving alongside me courageous unschooling noobs like me. Y'all light up my life, y'all are my heroes. You all make the world and the people growing in it a much better place to be.

 Love and endless gratitude, 
 Hedy 

"rinelle@... [AlwaysLearning]" wrote: We've been unschooling for a few years now, and after a year or two of working it out (and asking lots of questions on here), things had been going pretty well. But suddenly things have fallen apart, and I feel like we're right back where we were 3-4 years ago, and I don't know why.

Sandra Dodd

Hedy, your situation sounds really difficult, so I'm glad you're finding unschooling principles and tools are making it a little more peaceful.

This could be a problem:  " And I can now promise him we will always seek the painless way, even if it's not in said hospital's policy book. That I can promise him my advocacy and bulldog-mama-nature to assure him a pain-free medical experience. "

You can promise to seek.  You can promise advocacy.  
You can't "assure him a pain-free medical experience."

It might be better to promise that if there are options, you'll help him have choices when you can.  

Unschooling doesn't give anyone a magical pass through medical or any other system.  And all doctors (in the U.S., at least) are mandatory reporters, so if they suspect questionable family conditions, they could report that.  

This might add momentary stress, but what I'm hoping is to point at something that could cause future stress. 

Don't promise him things that—if unfulfilled or undoable—might make him feel abandoned again.
Don't behave in such ways that the doctors think you're not being a responsible parent.  As his partner, once in a while the only thing you can do is hold his hand and smile, during a painful or scary procedure.

Sandra

Jo Maslin

>
> of his body essentially betraying him and forcing him to have to do things that nobody else he knows has to do: drink 50 oz water a day, regular ER visits and hospital stays, I.V.s, blood tests, pee tests, etc.) It has angered and scared him and


Hi
I don't know where you live, but, it is possible there are specific support groups for children/families dealing with similar issues in your local areas
... Here in NZ for example, there is a nationwide support group called "heart kids" & we have joined our local group for our son, who enjoys hanging out with other children with similar life experiences (hospital visits, tests, operations etc) ... My husband and I have found it helpful too, being able to have a conversation about something hospital related to people who share a similar experience...


Cheers,
Jo

hedyhanni@...

Thanks to those who reached out with compassion and helpful advice, I appreciate it a bunch!

Sandra: <<It might be better to promise that if there are options, you'll help him have choices when you can. >>

A great point to carefully be honest. 

<<Unschooling doesn't give anyone a magical pass through medical or any other system.  And all doctors (in the U.S., at least) are mandatory reporters, so if they suspect questionable family conditions, they could report that.  

This might add momentary stress, but what I'm hoping is to point at something that could cause future stress. >>

Yes!  Discretion about unschooling versus homeschooling seems very important especially when interfacing with medical or other major institutions.  I sadly know of a woman who did temporarily lose her children because of being too forward about unschooling and her lifestyle in a medical setting.  Thankfully, they are safely reunited.  

But, it gave me serious pause, and so I choose to conduct/describe our family as simply "homeschoolers" publicly and stay within the requirements of homeschooling laws in our state . Perhaps thats why I got a bit "carried away" in my post: there are few I openly discuss unschooling with for the kind of protective reasons Sandra pointed out. : )  Thanks!
 
Jo:
<<It is possible there are specific support groups for children/families dealing with similar issues in your local areas
... Here in NZ for example, there is a nationwide support group called "heart kids" & we have joined our local group for our son, who enjoys hanging out with other children with similar life experiences (hospital visits, tests, operations etc) …>>

This is really helpful advice  My son is just reaching age where a support group could potentially be incredibly comforting and helpful, and it hadn't hit my radar yet. Thank you! 

 I'm gonna check with his docs when we go down in a few weeks and to try to find some resources.  Thanks for reaching out, and I wish the best for you and your son!
 
Cheers!