Sandra Dodd

In the past couple of months I've gotten questions a couple of times about whether it's okay to have a slow day with no learning. My initial answer to new unschoolers who are worried is that school is 180 days a year. 185 days, NOT school. (If any nation or jurisdiction has a legal schoolyear of more days, change the number to suit your local truth).

But that's always a beginner's question, and that's fine.

I paid for a little video related to that, it arrived today, and here's a link:

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2014/04/learn-while-you-can.html

When you see it, if you know what it is, guess "How many years?" Think about it before you look or count. :-)
I was surprised.

Sandra

Rach

Hi

My seven year old daughter wants to roller blade without her helmet and safety equipment.

She is still learning and is a bit wobbly. I really don't want her to be without her helmet and am scared of her falling on the hard tile floor outside.

At the moment, I have said I'm not willing to let her go out unless she holds my hand.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks in advance.

Rachel

Sandra Dodd

Marty and Holly took ice skating lessons.  Ice is hard.  They never wear helmets there.

Marty was a really good rollerblader when he was five.  I never made him wear a helmet.  He did fall once and get road rash on the palm of one hand, and one knee.

-=-At the moment, I have said I'm not willing to let her go out unless she holds my hand.-=-

Then she'll always be a bit wobbly, won't she?  

If helmets should be required for roller blading, why not ice skating?
If helmets should be required for playing in the yard, why not in the house?
We could keep kids in padded clothing all the time, with gloves and masks.  
We could keep kids in padded rooms.

I can see bike helmets for high-speed travel in real traffic.  
i can see helmets for roller derby where people are trying to send others flying at high speeds.

Sandra

Rach

Sandra, I'm smiling because Leila specifically wanted a reply from you. She said please try and see what Sandra Dodd would say and she asked me to imagine what you would say.

I said I thought you would say a hat was needed! Shows how much I know!! 

Honestly none of her other friends wear one but I'm really scared of her hurting herself. 

I am going to try and let go of my fear. Thank you. The comparison to ice skating helps a lot too. I used to ice skate when I was younger.

Rachel

On 28 Apr 2014, at 21:05, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

Marty and Holly took ice skating lessons.  Ice is hard.  They never wear helmets there.

Marty was a really good rollerblader when he was five.  I never made him wear a helmet.  He did fall once and get road rash on the palm of one hand, and one knee.

-=-At the moment, I have said I'm not willing to let her go out unless she holds my hand.-=-

Then she'll always be a bit wobbly, won't she?  

If helmets should be required for roller blading, why not ice skating?
If helmets should be required for playing in the yard, why not in the house?
We could keep kids in padded clothing all the time, with gloves and masks.  
We could keep kids in padded rooms.

I can see bike helmets for high-speed travel in real traffic.  
i can see helmets for roller derby where people are trying to send others flying at high speeds.

Sandra

CASS KOTRBA


Our son (9 at the time) got a motorized dirt bike last summer.  He did not want to wear his equipment & my mom was a nervous wreck but I didn't want to insist that he wear it.  The more my mom suggested it the more resistant he became to the idea.  I took him aside & told him not to worry about Nana.  I said I would feel better if he wore his equipment because road rash is painful & I loved his head just the way it is so it would be a shame to see it dented in or anything.  I made it lighthearted & jokey.  He continued to ride without his protective gear a few times & then decided that maybe it would be a better idea to wear it.  He continued to experiment with not wearing once in awhile but mostly chose to wear it.  I've noticed that so far this summer it's no question in his mind - he puts the equipment on. 
-Cass
----- Original Message -----
From: Rach
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 11:53 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Roller blading helmet question

 

Hi

My seven year old daughter wants to roller blade without her helmet and safety equipment.

She is still learning and is a bit wobbly. I really don't want her to be without her helmet and am scared of her falling on the hard tile floor outside.

At the moment, I have said I'm not willing to let her go out unless she holds my hand.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks in advance.

Rachel

Sandra Dodd

-=-Marty was a really good rollerblader when he was five.  I never made him wear a helmet.  He did fall once and get road rash on the palm of one hand, and one knee.-=-

When he fell, he was 15 or so.  I mighta shoulda said that. :-)  He was carrying groceries, and turned a streetcorner on gravel.   He used to use roller blades as actual transportation, and got hurt once.   A helmet would've have saved his hand or knee.  That's the point I was trying to make. :-)

Sandra Dodd

I keep coming back with more details. :-)

-=-Marty and Holly took ice skating lessons.  Ice is hard.  They never wear helmets there.-=-

Marty played ice hockey, when he was nine years old.  They totally wore helmets and mouth guards.  That was about sticks and pucks, though, more than about ice, I think.

Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll

And millions of Dutch people ride every day without helmets.

This is a pretty typical image. Little kids, no helmets.

http://exploringangobservingcities.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/family-outing.jpg

That's because they're biking at a bit faster than walking pace. The roads are designed for bike riders so collisions with cars are far less likely than they are here.

BUT when they're riding bikes that are meant to go fast -- the kind the serious bikers ride in America -- they do wear helmets.

Joyce

Katie Oxford

My kids hate to wear their helmets, too, but here it's the law. 21 states
require helmets for kids when they're riding bikes, but here in California
kids are required to wear helmets when they use a skateboard, scooter,
roller blades, or roller skates. In many cases, I think it's pretty silly
(especially since the requirements are for anyone under the age of 18), but
I guess fearful parents are happy here since there's no opportunity to use
logic or reasoning in your activities.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/skateboard.html



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Roller blading helmet question

And millions of Dutch people ride every day without helmets.

This is a pretty typical image. Little kids, no helmets.

http://exploringangobservingcities.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/family-outing
.jpg

That's because they're biking at a bit faster than walking pace. The roads
are designed for bike riders so collisions with cars are far less likely
than they are here.

BUT when they're riding bikes that are meant to go fast -- the kind the
serious bikers ride in America -- they do wear helmets.

Joyce

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Kirsty Harriman

I grew up mustering sheep on motorbikes without a helmet and I am still here and no head injuries that I am aware of. We had plenty of falls though. The land was flat and grassy. Looking back and remembering how fast we rode our motorbikes around the farm I think we were lucky. My husband grew up on a much rougher land where they would have been foolish not to wear a helmet while mustering. They were not allowed on their motorbikes without helmets. Having experienced riding that type of land as an adult I would agree. 

I don't know the stats regarding helmet wear and bicycle related accidents. .. We never by law had to wear a helmet as a kid. It would be interesting to find out whether laws that tells us to wear helmets now has resulted in less bad stuff happening on bikes on the road.

My husband decided to wear his head protective gear playing rugby union after a nasty concussion without the gear. He was lucky.

I rollerskated at the rink at 6 without a helmet. 

I reckon many adults would have similar stories because kids were allowed to get bruises and scrapes it seems back on the 1970's and 1980's. Something has changed since then. 

All that said. . My daughter got rollerskates (not blades) for her 9th birthday tomorrow (it was an early present) (and our second daughter will get them for her 7th birthday the following day) and she wants to wear her helmet because she is wobbly and she feels safer that way.   If we skate on the road where cars are yes we are wearing a helmet. If it's the footpath where the most that's likely to happen are sore knees and elbows or bottom, I will still encourage and suggest a helmet is good idea but allow them to make the choice because they are unlikely to be going fast enough to sustain any serious injury to their head on the footpath on rollerskates.

Our trampoline safety net deteriorated from several years of our summer sun a while ago. They jump and don't get hurt or fall off. Smalk size so its one at a time now (my husband lost teeth that way from a pushing elbow) until we have a much bigger trampoline that can accommodate four energetic children.

Clare Kirkpatrick

I'm a nurse. Some head injuries are far more dangerous than others. The risks associated with head injuries are far greater than those associated with a smashed knee - ie. Not just a scratch or a dent. Seemingly innocuous bumps on the back of the head can kill a few hours later. Personally, I don't think the fear of head injuries when your risk of falling and hitting your head on something very hard is much higher than normal is out of proportion and I'm a parent who is usually very vocal about not living in fear. I don't know how I'd make choices as to how to react if my kids refused to wear helmets when cycling, but I wanted to write this because 'I never wore a helmet and I don't have a brain injury' doesn't seem to be a very fair argument. I'd like to really know how many dangerous brain injuries bike helmets have caused rather than know a few people who are still alive and not paralysed despite not wearing one. I may not be so concerned about helmet use if I knew it didn't make much difference. 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

Juliet Kemp

> === I don't know the stats regarding helmet wear and bicycle related accidents. .. We never by law had to wear a helmet as a kid. It would be interesting to find out whether laws that tells us to wear helmets now has resulted in less bad stuff happening on bikes on the road.
> ====

The website http://cyclehelmets.org has links to research on bike helmet effectiveness and the effects of helmet-requiring legislation.

The effectiveness of bike helmets in preventing injury is hotly debated in cycling circles. What is pretty well agreed on though is that helmet legislation significantly decreases participation - so fewer people cycle if helmets are required. From a public health point of view this is something of an own goal, as more people cycling = improvement in other public health measures (lifespan, general health, etc).

I don't wear a bike helmet, and I used to be a cycle instructor. (In the UK, where there is no law requiring it.) Some of my fellow instructors did wear one, most didn't. We didn't recommend in either direction, but encouraged people to do their own research (helmets may actually increase some risks eg rotational injury). To friends, I say: do whatever makes you most likely to get on your bike :) if you feel happier with a helmet, wear one; if not, then not. But do make sure you have lights at night and obey road rules, and it's a very good idea to learn about best safe practice for road riding (either through lessons or books or online or whatever suits you).


Juliet

<meghorvath85@...>

My husband and I wear our helmets a lot of the time between bikes and motorcycles. We are fans of detailing them. For the kids and ourselves we buy matte-painted helmets so we can paint our own designs on them. There are some things the kids are into right now that require helmets (hockey, roller derby, bike clubs, outdoor rock climbing) but I don't think we've ever 'made' them wear one. We make safety gear available to use, and if they have a choice sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. My son, in the very hot part of the summer, never wants to wear a helmet because he sweats too much even with a shaved head. We haven't found a helmet suited with good venting to help him, yet, so he's helmet free most days. And, on a safety note - as Sandra said - it makes sense for contact sports needing helmets and body protection. Plus I think extreme sports like motorcross and maybe BMX bikers should probably be pretty protected. But those are high speeds or purposely smashing into someone or something which is much different then going 5 miles an hour on blades, scooters, or bikes.

Rach

It's 40 degrees outside here now most days and my daughter has very long hair. Discomfort was one of the main reasons she didn't want to wear one.

Rachel

On 29 Apr 2014, at 15:25, <meghorvath85@...> wrote:

My husband and I wear our helmets a lot of the time between bikes and motorcycles. We are fans of detailing them. For the kids and ourselves we buy matte-painted helmets so we can paint our own designs on them. There are some things the kids are into right now that require helmets (hockey, roller derby, bike clubs, outdoor rock climbing) but I don't think we've ever 'made' them wear one. We make safety gear available to use, and if they have a choice sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. My son, in the very hot part of the summer, never wants to wear a helmet because he sweats too much even with a shaved head. We haven't found a helmet suited with good venting to help him, yet, so he's helmet free most days. And, on a safety note - as Sandra said - it makes sense for contact sports needing helmets and body protection. Plus I think extreme sports like motorcross and maybe BMX bikers should probably be pretty protected. But those are high speeds or purposely smashing into someone or something which is much different then going 5 miles an hour on blades, scooters, or bikes.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Personally, I don't think the fear of head injuries when your risk of falling and hitting your head on something very hard is much higher than normal is out of proportion-=-

I don't think it's out of proportion.
I think different people have different checklists of fears, based on personal experience.  If we had a list of EVERYbody's top fives, instead of our own top five, we would all be immobilized.

I have a friend who's been a quadriplegic since she was 25.  She's 63 now.  She broke her neck innertubing on snow.  A helmet wouldn't have saved her.   I could have kept my kids from ever playing on snowy hills, but I didn't.

-=-'I never wore a helmet and I don't have a brain injury' doesn't seem to be a very fair argument. I'd like to really know how many dangerous brain injuries bike helmets have caused -=-

You meant prevented, right?  (Not caused?)

It's not about being "a fair argument."  It's stating that the idea that a helmet wil be the ONLY thing to prevent death is out of proportion.  If bicycles are so dangerous that a helmet is required, maybe bicycles are just too dangerous.   And helmets can be expensive.  A poor kid might be lucky to get a used bike, but will be unlikely to get a helmet and pads to go with it.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-he sweats too much even with a shaved head. We haven't found a helmet suited with good venting to help him, yet, so he's helmet free most days-=-

My husband, sons and friends have experience with helmets—steel, medieval great helms.  Marty's head was shaved for a couple of years.  Those helms have foam padding, sometimes with duct tape over old foam.  Gross, for sweat.  People wear an arming cap (cotton cap.... kind of like a baby bonnet.   I'll look for a photo.  I have one on my sewing table to remind me to make a few more just for general purposes, to give away), or Keith wears a headscarf, either tied behind, or rolled as a headband.


A thin knitted cotton cap might work, to wick sweat away, too.

Sandra


<meghorvath85@...>

Oh, maybe work on hairstyles with her, if you haven't already! My daughter insists on having pigtails with helmets. Sometimes I do too. :) It takes a lot of pressure off of my head with a helmet on. There's another little girl we bike with that always has a mid-head french braid under a helmet. It could be simple comfort things that you could suggest. I'll suggest to the kids, but I won't push it too far. Sometimes my son had already made up his mind well before we even back the bikes that he isn't going to wear anything protective and isn't in the mood to discuss it. We respect it as much as we can. There is one bike club that isn't too keen on our lack of helmet use on certain days so we're currently searching for a new club.

<meghorvath85@...>

My son's father uses a cap under his -also shaved head- he says it's great. We've offered a few ideas and products to my son, sometimes he'll use something. These two years have been interesting for him, in the growth aspect, I think. He's six and his father said that at his age he started to sweat badly. It seemed to even out around 10yrs old for his dad, so we'll see what happens.

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 29, 2014, at 1:01 AM, Clare Kirkpatrick <clare.kirkpatrick@...> wrote:

> I don't think the fear of head injuries when your risk of falling and hitting
> your head on something very hard is much higher than normal is out of proportion


I suspect it's hard to think clearly about the issue because "bike riding" is treated as a uniform activity. But some riding is more dangerous than others.

I see helmeted kids riding circles in their driveway on their bikes with training wheels. They're more likely to get a head injuring from tripping in the house and smacking their head on the coffee table.

After an exhausting bike ride my husband misjudged the turn into the parking lot next to our house and took a header off his bike. The helmet saved his life.

People in Netherlands can log thousands of helmetless hours on their bikes riding on city roads that favor bike riders with few injuries. But in America the bike-unfriendly roads and the cars who own them greatly increase the danger of a head-damaging injury.

I think what will help is supporting kids in making thoughtful decisions based on what they're doing rather than obeying an inflexible rule.

Joyce

Joyce Fetteroll


On Apr 29, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

A thin knitted cotton cap might work, to wick sweat away, too.


Maybe experimenting with the sweat wicking material that's used in athletic clothing. I don't know how it would work in a helmet. The purpose of the material is to pull the sweat away so it can evaporate. But there are sweat wicking undergarments. That might be a slightly different material.

Joyce

<cookiesforthree@...>

My sister.was 17 and training for the Olympics as a velodrome racer. Her and my father were in the bike lane on the road, with helmets, when a car struck my sisters rear tire. She went down and hit her head on the curb. Not a dent in the helmet but she still ended up brain dead. I've never required my kids to wear helmets when riding, even though it's the law. I've told them of the law and the consequences of breaking the law. There will be a ticket issued and they may get a call home or their bikes impounded. They choose to wear helmets only when biking along the major roads in town. They do not wear them skating, while riding their scooters or skateboards. It's not even required even at the local skating rink. ~Jen

Sandra Dodd

-=-It's 40 degrees outside here now most days and my daughter has very long hair. Discomfort was one of the main reasons she didn't want to wear one.-=-

40C, I guess. :-)

My husband has waist-length hair and when  he wears a helmet he braids it down the back.  Then puts on a scarf. :-)

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-Not a dent in the helmet but she still ended up brain dead. -=-

Sorry about your sister.   Stories like that stun people in sad but good ways.  Every living child alive.  No child's life can be guaranteed by anything.

The Olympics seems altogether dangerous, from ski jumps to diving all the way down to young children being pressured to train for the Olympics when they're only five or six years old.

Dangerous physically, emotionally, financially.

Sandra

Sabine Mellinger

My son is young ( 6 in August) so maybe my experience is limited. But wearing a helmet for biking or skiing is handled in our house similarly to other decisions - according to unschooling principles. Who says that there needs to be an either " do what ever you want" or a "without helmet no bike" kind of attitude ?

My husband and I are wearing helmets and are explaining why. I am in the medical field, have seen many, many devastating head injuries to prior perfectly healthy people ( some wearing helmets, most without) and for myself wearing a helmet is not bothersome enough to risk being neurologically hurt. I feel the same about seat belts. They do safe lives and while they don't guarantee me not to be killed by something (I still could get cancer, be hit by a car as a pedestrian, be shot, and many more possibilities) they lower the risk of being ejected from my car in an accident. It's a simple risk/benefit analysis - which might be different for different people or activities.
Lukas has always seen us wearing helmets while biking and skiing, he chose his own helmet (he had very specific ideas how it needed to look like ), we had discussions why I wear a helmet (matter of fact, not driven by fear) and when he forgets to put his on I will say something along the lines of "hey, you forgot your helmet - let me get it for you". He decorated his bike and ski helmet with his favorite stickers and wearing them seems not to bother him. He has forgotten to put his helmet on but if I make it easy to wear the helmet he has not chosen to not wear it.

This discussion picks up in some ways the recent threat about teeth brushing. In my experience teeth brushing has health benefits. The benefits are bigger than the inconvenience to me. My husband and I brush our teeth regularly and my son joins us the same way he joins us in other things we do. We try to make it fun and "just another thing we do" without drama when it doesn't happen once in a while. When my son was little he loved for me to find wild animals in his mouth. Now at almost 6 he still wants me to brush his teeth - and I enjoy doing it since it has almost gotten to the status of a little love ritual.

I brought the teeth brushing up again since I think both situations (helmets and teeth brushing) become a problem if they turn into an all or nothing situation, if they are handled inflexible or as some kind of parent enforced law. Granted my son is young and things might change, but making healthy choices easy and fun, walking my talk and having honest, unemotional discussion has helped us a lot. Not letting my fear of what could happen if he doesn't (brush his teeth, wear a helmet, get enough sleep, stop climbing up this tree, ......) cloud my approach of these situations seems to have helped to make them just another opportunity to help my son to make thoughtful decisions rather than a confrontation.

Oh, and one more thing. The argument "I used to ..... as a child and I turned out fine" seems weak on this kind of list. We all survived all kinds of suboptimal situations as children and are obviously still alive. What I love about this list is that we all try to make the lives of our children better and not just survivable.....

Sabine

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>;
To: <[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Roller blading helmet question
Sent: Tue, Apr 29, 2014 2:17:34 PM

 

-=-Not a dent in the helmet but she still ended up brain dead. -=-


Sorry about your sister.   Stories like that stun people in sad but good ways.  Every living child alive.  No child's life can be guaranteed by anything.

The Olympics seems altogether dangerous, from ski jumps to diving all the way down to young children being pressured to train for the Olympics when they're only five or six years old.

Dangerous physically, emotionally, financially.

Sandra

Joyce Fetteroll


On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:55 AM, cookiesforthree@... wrote:

Not a dent in the helmet but she still ended up brain dead. I've never
required my kids to wear helmets when riding, even though it's the law.
I've told them of the law and the consequences of breaking the law.

I'm really sorry about your sister.

Maybe you were trying to make a different point, but what I gathered from what you wrote is that unless something is 100% safe it's no better than nothing at all.

Bike riding is dangerous. It's more dangerous in some places than others. Some types of bike riding are more dangerous than others. Nothing can make it 100% safe. Some choices can make it safer. And that's where we can help kids make thoughtful choices. It's not a choice between wearing a bike helmet that might allow a head injury and not wearing a bike helmet that might allow a head injury. Those two aren't equal. It's helping them weigh several factors to make a decision for this time. The more experience they have with their decisions, the better they'll get at making decisions.

Joyce

<cookiesforthree@...>

I agree about bike riding being dangerous.  But so is walking across the street, or in my case going down stairs.

I don't feel that wearing helmets riding up and down our residential street is an issue.  They either wear them or don't. They do wear them when they are riding along the highway where there is more distraction with lots of activity of cars and people and things to see.

Sandra, as for the Olympics, my sister really wanted this. Yes, it was a lot of work and expensive and took almost all her spare time, but she really loved it.  She ended up getting sponsors that paid for her gear, etc. 

My point is that she was a professional bike rider. She had been racing since she was 12.  Used to distractions and other riders riding so close it would be so easy to fall. Used to riding busy streets for training. Wore all the right safety gear and in the end it did not matter.  She died doing something she loved. I don't think I could ask for anything more, except of course that she survived and was able to pursue her dreams.

I do encourage bike safety, trampoline safety, walking across the street safety, etc. but not to the point where it hinders the fun of the moment. 

My kids tend to be more cautious.  They are armed with knowledge. I see that if they are doing tricks or trying new things they tend to put their helmets on.  We have a friend where his mom insists he wears his helmet when biking or skating.  His knickname is Evil Knievel.  He is a risk taker and loves thrill.  He has the broken bone, sprains and stitches to prove it.  But that is what he craves and loves.

~Jen

Sandra Dodd

-=-It's not a choice between wearing a bike helmet that might allow a head injury and not wearing a bike helmet that might allow a head injury. Those two aren't equal. -=-

I agree about advisement.
Maybe the point cookiesforthree was trying to make was what the "I lived without seatbelts" people are.  
Helmets aren't a magical spell of protection.  It's possible some moms oversell them.
Seatbelts, ditto.  

Following laws is fine; I do, almost always and always have.
Overstating the benefits or safety isn't good (in my opinion) for kids coming to trust moms.

I think this is another case of the oldtime moms saying what makes perfect sense to them, but in ways that might be misinterpreted by newer unschooling parents.

I was in a modern American restaurant one day.  A former Carrows, now a local place called The Range Cafe.  There are three exits from the dining room and probably one or two from the kitchen.  Keith and I were eating, and one of the fire exits had high chairs and extra dining chairs in it.  I started picturing the illegality and danger of not having a clear path through a fire exit.  I felt uncomfortable.

I had just been in the UK a few weeks before, where LOTS of businesses only have one door, period.

I put my seatbelt on to go around the corner.  In India, families of four and five were riding on a single small motorcycle.  

Part of the pressure on Americans to use all possible safety equipment comes from legislation supported or sponsored by insurance companies, and from manufacturers of the equipment that would (if the company is lucky) become legally required.   I don't think that's evil.  I think that's business.  The modern world is as it is.

Sandra

Rach

I just wanted to clarify that in my original post When said I was not willing to let go of her hand, I meant when she was without her helmet.

For the past couple of days she has been out with no helmet and only holding on to me when she wants to.  She is blading on flat ground and has fallen a few times on her bum, but is gaining confidence all the time. I am too, but still worry. I'm working on that part :) 



Rachel