<luminara.king@...>

Hi,  we have been unschooling our 12 yr old daughter and 7 yr old son for four years and I have noticed that they have very different temperaments.   Our daughter has always been able to make healthy choices for herself (well, mostly) but our son can not.  Our son has always hated brushing his teeth but loves to eat surgery treats daily, because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.  Four years on, he has terrible tooth decay and is due to go to hospital to be put asleep to have four teeth removed, he has also suffered many painful abscess.  How can we stand by and watch our son in this pain.   I felt like I had let him down by neglecting my duty of care of him as his parent, all because I wanted to respect his choices and not "make" him brush his teeth.


Another example is our son's iPad use.  He is totally addicted, he rises at 7.00am and goes straight on the IPad and then it is a struggle to get him to have breakfast and get dressed or go out and do anything else all day.  If we do not intervene he stays on the iPad for 11 hours without a break and looks really ill.  Our son has never been to school and has never had any limits placed on him.  


So we are now feeling we have no choice but to set limits.  Today is a good example, we explained to our son that we are concerned about his computer use and that we are going to limit the time he is on the iPad to 6 hrs a day (not bad as many of his friends are only allow an hour a day!).  At first he want crazy, kicking, screaming, throwing things around.  I just contined to calmly explain why we needed to do this.  After, 30 mins without his iPad he started to engaged and play with his sister, went out on the trampoline and I can hear him now happily creating and playing with his Lego in his room. 


As for the brushing of his teeth, after trying everything, we have resort to a consequence of stating that we will not take part in giving him more pain by buying him candy unless he brushes his teeth  twice a day. 


oh yes, and the other day our daughter did say to me " Mum, please help me stop eating candy, I can't do it myself and my skin is getting really bad).  


So maybe us parents do need to take "Charge" sometimes and set limits because are not always able to make healthy choices. 


I would like to hear other people's experiences 


Luminara x

Greg and Kirsty Harriman

How long has your son had unlimited access to the Ipad? Is this a new thing or has it always been there? Does he rise at 7 am and spend 11 hours on it literally every single day or does it just seem like that to you? What’s he doing on his ipad? Some days when I feel like one of my children has done nothing else except choose to watch television or sat at the computer all day, when I look at it I realise that its not all day at all. Its only a few hours and the rest of the time they’ve been playing and doing other things.
 
Restricting your son’s ipad use might turn it into (or back into) a ‘forbidden fruit’ that will then seem that much more attractive and strengthen his desire to use it?
 
When our eldest daughter received an ipod for Christmas she too would rise and be on it for what felt like hours through January and February doing games and watching Barbie movies. I felt like we never saw her anymore and she would never do anything else. I found this really tough and felt like I was losing her.  Well four months later she’s choosing to do lots of other things again and I don’t often see her on her ipod now. Its become another choice. (I will add that it was 40 degrees outside then and its not now, which could have had an influencing factor why she spent so much time inside on her ipod in the air conditioning)
 
I note that I am talking about our daughter here and your daughter makes choices that don’t concern you as your son’s do. Maybe boys and girls are wired differently when it comes to things like ipads? Perhaps boys find these things harder to leave alone?
 
With having breakfast and getting dressed, why is it important to you that your son has breakfast and gets dressed by a certain time if you’re not going anywhere and have food available for when he’s hungry?
 
I have found our mornings have become a lot slower and ‘driftier’ without pushing for them to eat breakfast or get dressed. They will do these things when they’re ready or if we are going somewhere. If something interesting is happening on the computer or television it might be 9 or 10 before they do these things.
 
I am pretty new to unschooling and I have been really working on exactly these things that you have written about in recent months. Its been a really confronting time of letting go and facilitating free choices around food and tv and computers after quite strong limits for a number of years. I can say now that I am seeing a whole lot more balance happening in our lives and that they do choose many different things within a 24 hour period when there’s choice available.
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] When children don't make healthy choices
 
 

Hi,  we have been unschooling our 12 yr old daughter and 7 yr old son for four years and I have noticed that they have very different temperaments.   Our daughter has always been able to make healthy choices for herself (well, mostly) but our son can not.  Our son has always hated brushing his teeth but loves to eat surgery treats daily, because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.  Four years on, he has terrible tooth decay and is due to go to hospital to be put asleep to have four teeth removed, he has also suffered many painful abscess.  How can we stand by and watch our son in this pain.   I felt like I had let him down by neglecting my duty of care of him as his parent, all because I wanted to respect his choices and not "make" him brush his teeth.


Another example is our son's iPad use.  He is totally addicted, he rises at 7.00am and goes straight on the IPad and then it is a struggle to get him to have breakfast and get dressed or go out and do anything else all day.  If we do not intervene he stays on the iPad for 11 hours without a break and looks really ill.  Our son has never been to school and has never had any limits placed on him. 

 

So we are now feeling we have no choice but to set limits.  Today is a good example, we explained to our son that we are concerned about his computer use and that we are going to limit the time he is on the iPad to 6 hrs a day (not bad as many of his friends are only allow an hour a day!).  At first he want crazy, kicking, screaming, throwing things around.  I just contined to calmly explain why we needed to do this.  After, 30 mins without his iPad he started to engaged and play with his sister, went out on the trampoline and I can hear him now happily creating and playing with his Lego in his room.

 

As for the brushing of his teeth, after trying everything, we have resort to a consequence of stating that we will not take part in giving him more pain by buying him candy unless he brushes his teeth  twice a day.

 

oh yes, and the other day our daughter did say to me " Mum, please help me stop eating candy, I can't do it myself and my skin is getting really bad). 

 

So maybe us parents do need to take "Charge" sometimes and set limits because are not always able to make healthy choices.

 

I would like to hear other people's experiences

 

Luminara x

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, luminara.king@... wrote:

> Our daughter has always been able to make healthy choices for herself (well, mostly) but our son can not.


Comparisons aren't helpful. Your children are different people. Of course they'll make different choices. If your daughter is much like you she's more likely to make the same choices you do which you will feel as "right". Your son is not only a different person but a different sex. His choices won't just be a little different. They can be extremely different.


> Our son has always hated brushing his teeth but loves to eat surgery
> treats daily, because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't
> push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.


I'm sensing a disconnect between you and your kids. It sounds like you created an environment of choice and then backed off except for throwing a few "right ideas" at them, hoping they'd choose those.

For kids, brushing teeth isn't the simple barely-conscious act it is for adults. For kids there's texture, taste, it takes *ages*, it's lonely, it's shoving a foreign object in the mouth and probably several other objections.

For brushing teeth -- for anything -- that you want to make an easier choice for kids, work on the roadblocks. There's some ideas here:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/brushingteeth.html

*Be* with him. Don't send him off alone to brush his teeth. Brush together. Focus more on spending a joyful few minutes just you two together and let brushing be a side issue.


> I felt like I had let him down by neglecting my duty of care of him as his
> parent, all because I wanted to respect his choices and not "make" him
> brush his teeth.


It's unfortunate but common that when people reject old ideas, they then leave a vacuum.

The problem with not doing anything other than not making them is that the healthier, the nicer, the better choices are quite often harder. To make those easier to choose, kids need parents to create a more level playing field.

It can help to assume they're doing the best they can. And if they need to do better, there's something in the way. Get to know them. What's bothering them. Work on what's in the way rather than working on them. Make the better choices easier.


> Another example is our son's iPad use


This too feels like disconnection.

If you're calling it "iPad use" that means you're only seeing the backside of the tablet.

What's going on on the other side? What kind of things is he doing on the iPad? What does he enjoy about those things? What are his favorites?

Do you join him? Do you get to know him better by getting to know better what he loves? Do you play with him? Do you let him show you what he's discovering and excited about? Do you ask questions to understand his interest (and him) better?


> He is totally addicted,


He's not addicted. He's passionately engaged. Please do read here:

http://sandradodd.com/addiction

And several of the links at the very bottom.

And here:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/tv%20and%20video%20games/tvandotheraddictions.html


> he rises at 7.00am and goes straight on the IPad and then it is a struggle to get him to have breakfast and get dressed or go out and do anything else all day.


Why does he need to leave what he's doing to have breakfast? iPads are portable.

Are you sweetly helping him get dressed if it's a problem for him? He's only 7! These tasks that adults see as simple aren't so simple when you're a kid! Or let him sleep in his clothes? Or put his clothes in the car so he can do the boring dressing thing once he's somewhere that's interesting enough to dress for?

What kinds of things is he being pulled from the house to do? Why can't he take the iPad?

If he's an introvert in a home of extroverts, it can feel to him like he's *always* leaving. (And feel to the extroverts like you're *always* at home.) Some families have found it helpful to have days scheduled for going out and days scheduled for staying in. And then making "home" as portable as you can. If that's the problem, ask here or search the archives for ideas.

There's some ideas on transitions here:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling%20in%20action/transitions.html


> oh yes, and the other day our daughter did say to me " Mum, please help
> me stop eating candy, I can't do it myself and my skin is getting really bad).


The biggest cause of acne and zits is being a teenager. Little kids eat candy. Adults eat candy. So candy -- if it even is a factor (and perhaps only for certain types of acne) -- isn't the only factor.

Oily skin is a factor. I'm 57 and still get an occasional zit because I have really oily skin. (As does my father who's in his 80s!)

Stress is a big factor in skin problems. Being a teen is stressful because of all the hormonal and growth and brain changes. And not begin allowed to eat things you enjoy is stressful too.

Be sweet to her. Let her have candy. Find some medication for her.

Pam Sorooshian had a website she recommended. Maybe she'll pop in her with it (if it's still a good one!)


> So maybe us parents do need to take "Charge" sometimes and set
> limits because are not always able to make healthy choices.

Kids shouldn't be expected to make "healthy choices". If the "healthy choices" are harder, more irritating, have too many roadblocks, there are other factors that are skewing their decisions. Be more with them. Create a nurturing nest where better choices *feel* better and aren't just annoying and self-depriving.

Joyce

Vicki Dennis




On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
 


On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, luminara.king@... wrote:

> Our son has always hated brushing his teeth but loves to eat surgery
> treats daily, because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't
> push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.

I'm sensing a disconnect between you and your kids. It sounds like you created an environment of choice and then backed off except for throwing a few "right ideas" at them, hoping they'd choose those.

For kids, brushing teeth isn't the simple barely-conscious act it is for adults. For kids there's texture, taste, it takes *ages*, it's lonely, it's shoving a foreign object in the mouth and probably several other objections.


If he has had rampant decay or gum inflammation (and you even mentioned abscesses), then brushing teeth might be very painful.    These issues are not caused solely by lack of brushing or hygiene.   More helpful to develop solutions than to blame yourself (even if you do feel society's judgment!) or, especially, to blame him.   It might be helpful to find a dental hygienist who is willing to partner with your son instead of telling you to "be the responsible parent".    There are anti-cavity mouthwashes, and flossing can be very effective.    Some modern dentists are even starting to follow research that over brushing (especially with abrasive dentifrices) has been a source of much damage.  

vicki

Marina Moses

My daughter lacked enamel on some of her adult teeth when they first emerged due to high fever as a small child. She brushed her teeth regularly but still had to be put to sleep to have some removed due to decay. Unfortunately, she has continued to have weak enamel issues (she is 18).  I'm not trying to sell anything but when she feels roughness or etching in her teeth we buy the complete Xylitol system from Epic Dental (online). It includes gum, mints, mild tasting toothpaste and mouthwash. After a month or so her teeth feel better. We have used this off and on for years now and she hasn't had a cavity since we started. Incidentally, she loves sweets too.



On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Vicki Dennis <vicki@...> wrote:
 




On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
 


On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, luminara.king@... wrote:

> Our son has always hated brushing his teeth but loves to eat surgery
> treats daily, because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't
> push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.

I'm sensing a disconnect between you and your kids. It sounds like you created an environment of choice and then backed off except for throwing a few "right ideas" at them, hoping they'd choose those.

For kids, brushing teeth isn't the simple barely-conscious act it is for adults. For kids there's texture, taste, it takes *ages*, it's lonely, it's shoving a foreign object in the mouth and probably several other objections.


If he has had rampant decay or gum inflammation (and you even mentioned abscesses), then brushing teeth might be very painful.    These issues are not caused solely by lack of brushing or hygiene.   More helpful to develop solutions than to blame yourself (even if you do feel society's judgment!) or, especially, to blame him.   It might be helpful to find a dental hygienist who is willing to partner with your son instead of telling you to "be the responsible parent".    There are anti-cavity mouthwashes, and flossing can be very effective.    Some modern dentists are even starting to follow research that over brushing (especially with abrasive dentifrices) has been a source of much damage.  

vicki




--
Love and Prayers,
Marina

Sandra Dodd

-=-> he rises at 7.00am and goes straight on the IPad and then it is a struggle to get him to have breakfast and get dressed or go out and do anything else all day.

-=-Why does he need to leave what he's doing to have breakfast? iPads are portable.-=-

Joyce responded, but I want to point to the word "struggle."

There can only be struggle between adversaries.
If you move toward a partnership with your son (helping him do/find/be/learn), if you become his facilitator (the person who makes things easier for him), there won't be a struggle.

Struggles get bigger, over the years.
So do partnerships.
So does respect, but you don't seen to respect him or his choices.  


Why "get him to have breakfast"?
What if he doesn't eat for a few hours after he wakes up?
The clock isn't hungry.

Perhaps he could be dressed for the day before he goes to sleep.  Do you have many rules about what people must or cannot wear to sleep?
Perhaps you could set out clothing for him the night before, right next to the bed.  Right next to the iPad.

If you care more about schedules and appearances than you do about your child, unschooling isn't likely to be a good fit for you.  For the mom, not for the child.  It's moms that cause unschooling not to work, not children.

Sandra

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

-=-=-=- because we were trying to respect his own choices we didn't push him to brush his teeth only explained why it was important to do so.  -=-=-=

It seems like you think it is either one way or the other end of the spectrum. Either you respect him and do not make him or you force him. How about being his partner?
How about you finding tooth pastes he likes? How about some cool exciting toothbrushes? how about finding out that xylitol candy used at least 5 times a day can prevent cavities? how about brushing with xylitol ( it is like brushing with sugar!)? How about you brush his teeth ( some kids like that best)? how about reminding him and helping him lovingly?




-=-=-=-=-Another example is our son's iPad use.  He is totally addicted, he rises at 7.00am and goes straight on the IPad and then it is a struggle to get him to have breakfast and get dressed or go out and do anything else all day.  If we do not intervene he stays on the iPad for 11 hours without a break and looks really ill. -=-=-=-=-=-=-

How about  bringing him some nice breakfast? how about inviting him to play with his Ipad in a park? How about playing a game with him in his Ipad? How about finding things he may like to do related to what he likes? is being in his Ipad  seen as just one thing? Would you call it addiction if he was reading ?
I wrote about my son who is a gamer here:
http://polykow.blogspot.com/2013/12/my-child-does-spend-lot-of-time-in-his.html
Even him will not spend everyday all day in his computer.
About getting dressed. I sometimes get up and stay in my PJ's most of the day !

-=-=-=-=-=-So we are now feeling we have no choice but to set limits.  -=-=-=-=-=

Because your thinking is either or. Either you limit or you just wash your hands.  That is what I am reading in what you wrote here. I may be wrong.

-=-=-=-=-=-.  After, 30 mins without his iPad he started to engaged and play with his sister, went out on the trampoline and I can hear him now happily creating and playing with his Lego in his room. -=-=-=-=

Is the Ipad something new? was it Winter where you live and now its warming up? Do you go jump in the trampoline and invite him?
DO you pull out the Legos and play yourself? ( My kids will join me 10 out of 10 times if I pull out something or go outside to play in the playset)

-=-=-=-=As for the brushing of his teeth, after trying everything, we have resort to a consequence of stating that we will not take part in giving him more pain by buying him candy unless he brushes his teeth  twice a day. -=-=-=-
You said you had only explained about why they needed to brush so I am not getting the "after trying everthing" .  Was teeth brushing turned into a negative things or a battle between you?

-=-=-=-=-oh yes, and the other day our daughter did say to me " Mum, please help me stop eating candy, I can't do it myself and my skin is getting really bad)-=-=-

Eating candy has absolutely NO correlation with skin issues .   She is a teen. Hormones is what causes acne. Why does she thing candy is doing it? Have candy been vilified in your home?  Why does she feel she cannot stop eating? why does she feel she has to stop eating?

-=-=-=-=-=-So maybe us parents do need to take "Charge" sometimes and set limits because are not always able to make healthy choices. -=-=-=-=-

For usnchooling to happen parents need to partner with their children in a loving supportive way.  No one *always* makes healthy choices . Why are you holding anyone to a perfect standard you have in your mind?

Alex Polikowsky

tania

brushing teeth is for our family snuggle time. i often brush their
teeth while face to face snuggling and telling them how good they
smell and so on. no idea how this developed, but i do like that for
years and brushing teeth was always and is up to now (oldest is five)
a nice moment of the day (we often only brush in the evening). if they
dont want to come to the bathroom anymore brush their teeth in bed.

we dont use any sugar anymore, use for everything only xylitol - in
our house it is called teeth sugar.

tania from italy with two sons, 1 and 5

Sandra Dodd

-=-She is a teen. Hormones is what causes acne. Why does she thing candy is doing it? Have candy been vilified in your home?-=-

It has. 
The boy can have candy IF he brushes his teeth twice a day.
It is glorified AND villified.

<luminara.king@...>

I do have a deep connection with both my children and love finding out about what they love, joining them in their passions and supporting them in any way I can.   My son has had the IPad for over a year, we brought him his own after he was sharing his dad's for a while and felt it would be nice for him to have his own instead of sharing.  And, honestly he is on the iPad all day.  Before we brought it for him he used to jump out of bed and eat three loads of breakfast.  Now he doesn't want to leave his room.   But, he is not an introvert as when we do manage to get out of the house, swimming, seeing friends he loves it and doesn't want to leave. 

Our dentist told me, candy is like acid on children's baby teeth and we all love candy and eat it every day.  This made me feel super guilty, but we still eat the candy!  
My husband or I are with our son when he brushes his teeth and we had all that has been suggested, fun tooth brushes, funny songs playing on the IPad, brushing together.   But, maybe there are blocks I can't see. 

Thanks for all the links, I will check them out.  And I not sure if I can find the Xytol products here in the UK but will take a look for them.
 Luminara 

Sandra Dodd

First, I want to recommend that every parent with a living child who can walk, and talk, and play on an iPad and can eat or choose not to eat, without being spoonfed or needing feeding tubes, should be grateful.  Joyous!  

Find abundance in your life.  Find joy.  See what you have that is good.

I'm saying this beause the past week as had a year's worth of whining.  Yes, I hear it because I volunteer to show up here and on the facebook page every day, but it's been TOO MUCH.  Too much parental complaint about perfectly find children.

-=- And, honestly he is on the iPad all day.-=-

He's doing something he's enjoying that's not hurting anyone.  That's good!   

I doubt that it's all day.  I don't doubt that you're acting like it is, but if you're critical of him, the iPad might be a sweeter facilitator and partner than you are.  It's possible.  And one way to be critical is to say "Oh, GOOD!" when he does something else, or "I'm so glad you came to the table to eat!" if he does get hungry and come in.

-=-Before we brought it for him he used to jump out of bed and eat three loads of breakfast.  Now he doesn't want to leave his room. -=-

Some parents complain that they don't know how to get a child to eat less.  Maybe before he had the iPad, food was the coolest thing on his horizon.  Maybe he was hungry and going through a growth spurt, and maybe now he is not hungry and isn't going through a growth spurt.

Instead of looking for what's wrong, PLEASE look for what's right, and good, and sweet.

Sandra


BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

-=-=-=-=-  Before we brought it for him he used to jump out of bed and eat three loads of breakfast.  Now he doesn't want to leave his room.-=-=-=-=-=

I joyfully bring food for my kids to their rooms if they are engaged in a game or talking to friends. If the goal is that he gets a good breakfast  then make sure he does.
Ipads are portable~! Bring it along :) Or maybe he just wants the peace and quiet of his room. Does he have a headset?? That could help him to.


-=-=-=-=-=-=  But, he is not an introvert as when we do manage to get out of the house, swimming, seeing friends he loves it and doesn't want to leave. -=-=-=-=-

May introverts, like me, when they go out they have fun and talk a storm with others, If you meet me you will think and I am extrovert because I am super outgoing,
But I absolutely love to stay home doing my stuff alone ( well my kids and husband ) and not one else. I can go weeks not going anywhere. I need to be home and recharge by not going anywhere and being alone ( again my kids and husband are no problem but friends I get tired of being social even my best friends that I LOVE to hand out with)

-=-=-=-=-=Our dentist told me, candy is like acid on children's baby teeth and we all love candy and eat it every day.  This made me feel super guilty, but we still eat the candy!  -=-=-=-=-=

Why is it that some people have not candy and still have cavities and some eat tons and have non? There are several factors that are needed to develop cavities. There is genetics, mouth PH, bacteria ( good and bad), composition of your saliva. It is not as simple as brush equals no cavity or candy equals cavities.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-My husband or I are with our son when he brushes his teeth and we had all that has been suggested, fun tooth brushes, funny songs playing on the IPad, brushing together.   But, maybe there are blocks I can't see. -=-=-=-=-=-=-

There is xylitol in the UK for sure. Look into it.  




Alex Polikowsky

Sandra Dodd

-=-There is xylitol in the UK for sure. Look into it.   -=-

I think not.
One of the things a friend of mine there had me bring was xylitol candy and gum.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

http://www.xylitoluk.co.uk/

Maybe it is cheaper here? or she liked a specific brand.

 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

Vanessa O

Xylitol and products are freely available in the UK in all healthfood stores and aren't expensive.
Vanessa

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Apr 2014, at 10:44, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:

 

http://www.xylitoluk.co.uk/

Maybe it is cheaper here? or she liked a specific brand.

 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

Sandra Dodd

-=-Maybe it is cheaper here? or she liked a specific brand. -=-

Maybe both. :-) 
I'm glad to know it's available there.

Greg and Kirsty Harriman

Is he on the ipad all day every day for like a week? Was he on it all day every day two weeks ago? A month ago? Is this an intense phase that will pass and he will get his fill and move on? Really is he forever on it all day every day, always?
 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 6:08 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: When children don't make healthy choices
 
 

I do have a deep connection with both my children and love finding out about what they love, joining them in their passions and supporting them in any way I can.   My son has had the IPad for over a year, we brought him his own after he was sharing his dad's for a while and felt it would be nice for him to have his own instead of sharing.  And, honestly he is on the iPad all day.  Before we brought it for him he used to jump out of bed and eat three loads of breakfast.  Now he doesn't want to leave his room.   But, he is not an introvert as when we do manage to get out of the house, swimming, seeing friends he loves it and doesn't want to leave. 

 
Our dentist told me, candy is like acid on children's baby teeth and we all love candy and eat it every day.  This made me feel super guilty, but we still eat the candy! 
My husband or I are with our son when he brushes his teeth and we had all that has been suggested, fun tooth brushes, funny songs playing on the IPad, brushing together.   But, maybe there are blocks I can't see.
 
Thanks for all the links, I will check them out.  And I not sure if I can find the Xytol products here in the UK but will take a look for them.
Luminara

justine knowles

-----Maybe both. :-) 
I'm glad to know it's available there--------


Xylitol is in Orbit chewing gum which is available in most UK supermarkets.






Joyce Fetteroll


On Apr 24, 2014, at 4:08 PM, luminara.king@... wrote:

I do have a deep connection with both my children

Your first post painted a very different picture. The more clear the window is into your life, the more people can help. If you can't turn an analytical objective eye on your own thinking and choices, people here can't help much. If you can't see from your kids' points of view to better understand the sensible (to them) reasons they're making the choices they do in order to help them past the stumbling blocks, our help won't be much help to you.

One clue is you said you feel "super guilty" about the candy. Guilt often indicates someone who sees the outcome of their choices as a reflection on them personally. They're good and right as a person when things turn out. They're bad and wrong when things don't.

That way of thinking makes it much harder to work towards making better choices. That way of thinking turns life into a constant effort to guess the "right" answer. Seemingly the only way to make better choices is to just know the rules and the right answers.

If that way of thinking sounds familiar, it will help to see *all* outcomes as feedback.  That feedback will help you understand what parts of your solution are working and why, what parts aren't working and why. From that you can tweak your approach.

But it you can't dissociate your self-worth from how your choices turn out, it's going to be really really hard to make progressively better choices.

And, honestly he is on the iPad all day. 

You're still calling what he's doing "on the iPad," even though you have a "deep connection." What's he *doing* on the iPad? How much time during the day do you spend with him on the iPad?

Don't feel *guilty* if it's zero. Don't *assume* the implication is you should be spending hours. You *say* you join them in their passions, but you wording says you have no idea what he's doing or why he enjoys doing it. It's just 11 hours of "iPad". That's not a connected view of him or what he loves.

Before we brought it for him he used to jump out of bed and eat three loads of breakfast.

I don't know what "three loads of breakfast" is. But kids do grow and change. Growth rate -- and food needs -- are fast and high at the beginning, then they slow down, then kids gather energy pre-puberty growing a bit round then shoot up for another growth. (Generally.) So it could be he doesn't need as much fuel as he used to.

An option suggested was bringing breakfast to him. Then spend some time with him, asking about what's going on in his world. Make it a point to touch base with him *several* times a day. Bring the laundry to where he is to fold it. Ask him to bring his iPad with you and fill you in on what's been going on.

Maybe you're defining "deep connection" differently than I do. Maybe you mean something vague like "loving bond" or something. Here, when discussing radical unschooling, it needs to mean knowing who your child is, understanding his current interests, being attuned to his needs. It's like being a best friend and mentor rolled into one. 

we had all that has been suggested

There's about 40 suggestions on the page I linked. All?

By "had" do you mean you handed him a toothbrush or handed him a new toothpaste? Or did you engage with him to work *together* to find things he liked?

The first is seeing *him* as the problem and throwing solutions at him looking for something that fixes him. The second is seeing this toothbrushing business as *your* deal and then working with him to make it as easy for him to do as you can.

Joyce

Juliet Kemp


-=-=-=-=-=-=  But, he is not an introvert as when we do manage to get out of the house, swimming, seeing friends he loves it and doesn't want to leave. -=-=-=-=-

---- May introverts, like me, when they go out they have fun and talk a storm with others, If you meet me you will think and I am extrovert because I am super outgoing,
But I absolutely love to stay home doing my stuff alone ( well my kids and husband ) and not one else. I can go weeks not going anywhere. I need to be home and recharge by not going anywhere and being alone ( again my kids and husband are no problem but friends I get tired of being social even my best friends that I LOVE to hand out with) ----

And I'm an introvert who finds even my family tiring sometimes :) I can cope with more of them than I can time with friends, but for really recharging it is time *alone* that is really valuable for me (even if sometimes all I can get at this time in my life is a few minutes at a time). 

But when I do go out and meet up with friends it's great fun and sometimes I too struggle to leave, because I'm having fun in the moment. But once I get home I can happily go for ages before I start craving company again :) 

A useful introvert/extrovert distinction is not whether you like being around other people (that's more about sociability), but whether you recharge by being alone or with others. I find being with other people fun, but draining. A classic extrovert would get energy from being with others. And of course many/most people have a little bit of both - and even I find social time is energising in some ways even as it is also exhausting! A good read on introvert/extrovert is the book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts" by Susan Cain - though it's no substitute for just watching *your* kid and how they operate and what they need and thrive on :) 


Juliet 

<anniel_5@...>

My son had an operation last year where he was put to sleep and had 8 teeth removed. I was lucky to find a dentist who accepted the damage as where his teeth were at and did not shame me or him or make candy or anything else the enemy. She did show him ways to brush his teeth and talked about why it is important, but at no point did either of us feel that we had created the problem.

LiAM does eat a lot of sugary foods, and brushes his teeth sometimes (much more regularly since the operation). My youngest daughter eats just as much sugar, and brushes her teeth far less often, and has had no damage to her teeth at all. My oldest daughter has a similar brushing record to LiAM and also has no damage. So the damage is not related to sugar or to tooth brushing - it's more to do with genetics and/or LiAM's own personal make up. I had gastro quite badly several times when I was pregnant with him, so it's possible that those times coincided with when his enamel was forming and it didn't form properly. Or it may be that all the asthma medication has weakened it. I don't really care what the cause is - I'd prefer to encourage brushing and make it a happy experience, but not get too hung up on it, and look after each of my kid's teeth as needed (take them for regular check ups and deal with problems when/if they arise, rather than worrying about what might go wrong)

Annie

Catherine Hassall

Most nights my children brush their teeth in the bedroom.
I put toothpaste on both brushes and grab two cups - one with water and one for spitting in.
I put it all on a small table beside the bed and they are both happy to brush while watching a movie or whatever they are busy with.
My little one at 4 still wants me to brush his teeth most times but taking it to them, rather than trying to get them into the bathroom
has been a simple solution.