<apsews@...>

I will start with some background information about my family and situation.
My son is 12 and my daughter is 18(just graduated from public school). We just started homeschooling my son last April. He hated school and was falling seriously "behind" because of a lot of sickness(nothing serious) over the years and I had no clue, (which was partly my fault for not being more involved). 
From the beginning I knew that I didn't want to go the traditional "school at home" way because that already wasn't working with him. I researched the different styles of homeschool and was first drawn to unschooling but I guess I was scared because it was so off from anything I had ever known before, so I went the Charlotte Mason way. I really tried to make it work but he was still miserable and so was I. Around the end of November I knew I had to find another way. I had decided that he either had a learning disability or was a right brain learner, so I set out to find something new that supported his way of learning. I stumbled back upon unschooling and it just felt right. I have been reading everything I could find to learn more about it while we deschooled. Since Christmas we have only done what he wants to do and just have had fun and I have worked on saying yes more and just being nicer. 
My problem is that I haven't got my husband onboard. I have talked to him a little about it but I can't get him to read anything so that he will understand. I don't feel like I can explain everything like y'all have for me. We have always been pretty relaxed parents with food and bedtime but he is a "if I say do it, you better do it" kind of parent. I know that that is all he knows and I'm not sure he will see it any other way. I have told him that we are deschooling and he kind of rolls his eyes and says "yeah, doing nothing".
We(my son and I) don't want to go back to school at home so please advise me on how to get him to understand all of this.

D. Regan


My problem is that I haven't got my husband onboard. I have talked to him a little about it but I can't get him to read anything so that he will understand.

Getting people to read things "so that [they] will understand" is what schools often do.  It's not a very effective way for people to learn.  If unschooling is not something he's drawn to exploring, being pressed to read about it is not likely to inspire his enthusiasm for it.  And it puts distance between you.

Instead focus your attention on making home work really well for all your family, including him.  Devote time to helping with things that are important to him.  Instead of trying to get him to understand your ideas, reach out to understand his concerns.  He may be scared your son won't ... be able to get a job, for example.  That's important.  Think about what it must be like to have whatever concerns he has.  Think about how you can constructively address them.  Over time, he will probably be more satisfied, more relaxed, feel more supported, he may notice how well things are flowing, he may be more inclined to listen to your ideas around issues involving the children, his ways of interacting may soften...  

I don't feel like I can explain everything like y'all have for me.

He's probably not lacking an explanation.  Help him see the benefits of unschooling, in practical rather than theoretical ways.  When he's open to listening, mention cool things your son has done, mention insights you've gained about his progress, help make home happy and thriving, involve him in positive ways in your days.  

This page that Sandra has brought together about reluctant spouses will help too-

Debbie

Sherry Franklin

My son, 10, and daughter, 9, had a sleepover last night. I have noticed in situations like this, when my son is the host or in the "power seat" with his friends, that he moves through his world as if he is in control of everything...our home, our car, our event. He can be a bit mean and judgmental towards me, his father and his sister. It feels as if he is showing off and his way to do that is to control us with his words and actions. My father was very controlling as am I now. My first reaction as a controller and a former teacher is to put him in his place. But I want to change that reaction to something more understanding and loving that first looks at my son instead of first reacting.

My son and I are very close and I know from my own observations and those of my friends and family, that he watches me and at times directs his own feelings and beliefs based on what I'm feeling or seeming to believe. I'm wondering if he is feeling a bit out of control and finds that he needs to exert his own in these situations.

I am struggling with food control in these situations, especially when I am cooking a large dinner for everyone and they are eating a big bag of chips five minutes before it is done. I am also struggling with how to interact with my son when I ask him specifically not to take the bag of chips to his room because of bugs and mice, and he does it anyway. That is one incident of three that happened last night and this morning when I asked him to do or not do something and he did or did not do it anyway. My feelings are hurt because I feel disregarded, but having words with him in front of his friends felt worse. I want ours to be the peaceful home where friends come to have fun and relax. I have always wanted that, but giving up control is difficult for me. I want to work on that.

Sherry

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

<semajrak@...>

>>>>>My first reaction as a controller and a former teacher is to put him in his place. But I want to change that reaction to something more understanding and loving that first looks at my son instead of first reacting.<<<<<

As soon as my son started walking, he wanted to be first.  First in the car.  First buckled.  First down the sidewalk.  First through the front door.  First to get his food.  I encouraged all of those pursuits because I realized that these little gestures gave him the control he was seeking in his world.  They seemed to make him feel important and valued.

Meredith Novak wrote something recently that I really loved:  

"Young children Have limits and boundaries - there are sooooooo many things they can't do for themselves, yet! Their world is full of things that are too big and complex for them to deal with, including their own needs. It's a great gift for them to have a special grown-up friend making their lives sweeter and easier so they can put their energy into exploring the world, not fighting against it."

If you were a very controlling parent when your son was very young, perhaps now would be a really good time to quietly give him more control.   Don't allow him to be mean.  Encourage him not to be boastful or brag, but also encourage his need to take on this leadership roll he seems to be wanting to explore.  Give him things to be in control of when friends are over and even when they are not - not chores, and not things you want him to do.  Observe where he seems to want to lead from and find positive ways to support him there.  

>>>>>I am struggling with food control in these situations, especially when I am cooking a large dinner for everyone and they are eating a big bag of chips five minutes before it is done.<<<<<

If it's a special dinner, let him know that it's a special dinner and you would prefer he wait.  If it's an every day dinner, pick up some handy storage containers so that you can store the leftovers in the fridge for heating up and eating later if he can't finish all of his dinner.  This is one place where I believe you could support him by lessoning your control over what food eats and when he puts food in his mouth.

Sometimes when I'm cooking, I'll eat some chocolate or other sweet treat within reach.  Often when Doug (my husband) comes home from work and I'm nearly done dinner, he'll open a bag of chips and have a few.  I don't imagine it would go over too well if I lectured him about not eating before dinner.  I wouldn't appreciate anyone telling me I couldn't have my chocolate either.  There is little sweeter than feeling at ease to enjoy a bite of food you are hungry for in the presence of someone you love.  Don't taint that with your own idea of what that food should be or when it should take place.  It doesn't encourage an easy relationship and peace in the home, if those are things you are aiming for.  If you are making food with love, don't let that have strings attached.  Let the wonderful smells, good food and your generous effort be your gift.  

In our home, I do make meals most nights.  I make sure to make things everyone likes as much as possible.  Sometimes I try something new, but there is no expectation of anyone eating it.  We eat wherever we want to eat, though most evenings these days we all enjoy dinner together around the counter in the kitchen.  When we got home from a long trip a couple of months ago, the first thing my son said was that he wanted a warm meal that I had cooked.  I didn't particularly feel like cooking to tell you the truth, but I did.  I ran out to get a few groceries, came back and cooked him the chicken and mashed potatoes he requested.  It warmed my heart to see him taking such comfort in it.

>>>>>I am also struggling with how to interact with my son when I ask him specifically not to take the bag of chips to his room because of bugs and mice, and he does it anyway.<<<<<

The more you lessen your arbitrary restrictions, the more the real ones will seem reasonable.  My son doesn't leave a lot of crumbs when he eats, so I don't mind if he eats in his room.  I also go in and take away the chip bags and pick up the dishes because a reasonably clean environment for him is important to me.  But, Ethan has a friend who eats all of his food like the cookie monster devouring his cookie!  When he is visiting, I ask both Ethan and his friend to eat in the kitchen.  I've never had Ethan question this, although sometimes he forgets.  When I remind him he simply says "Oh yeah.  I forgot."  
 
Karen.

<plaidpanties666@...>

>> have noticed in situations like this, when my son is the host or in the "power seat" with his friends, that he moves through his world as if he is in control of everything...our home, our car, our event. He can be a bit mean and judgmental towards me, his father and his sister. It feels as if he is showing off and his way to do that is to control us with his words and actions.<<

What if you saw all that as coming from nerves - he wants everything to be Just So, wants everything to be right and go well. He's feeling insecure. So instead of fighting against him, think of ways for him to feel more relaxed and safe. Help him make back-up plans so that it's not such a big deal if everything doesn't go perfectly. Help him focus on being a good host. 

For that to work, it will help if You can focus on being a good hostess - not in the sense of getting everything right, but in the sense of helping your guests have a good time. Here's a good example:

>>I am struggling with food control in these situations, especially when I am cooking a large dinner for everyone and they are eating a big bag of chips five minutes before it is done.<<

Instead of thinking about dinner, think about your guests and what will set them up to have a good time. That might mean rethinking dinner entirely so that it's something that doesn't need to be eaten "family style" with everyone sitting down at once - make foods that can sit out or be easily reheated, instead, so guests can focus on enjoying themselves and eat when they're hungry. If you do have something specific planned, have a back-up plan in case it doesn't work out the way you expect. Have some yummy dips to go with those chips! Make up some appetizers ahead of time, or monkey platters, or some extra sandwiches for later so that everyone gets something to eat at some point without needing to make a big deal out of food. 

>>I am also struggling with how to interact with my son when I ask him specifically not to take the bag of chips to his room because of bugs and mice, and he does it anyway.<<

Realize that you've turned a solution into a problem. The original problem is bugs and mice, but you came up with "a solution" that seems perfectly sensible to you - the trouble is, because  your son isn't interested in your solution, it's become its own problem: food in the bedroom. Dang. 

So step back to the original problem: mice and bugs. Assume there will be food brought into the bedroom - since you know there will be - and go from there. What are some Other ways to solve that problem? Maybe a garbage can in the bedroom, right by where your son sits to eat. Maybe plan to check his room for plates, bowls, empty bags, on a regular basis. Maybe have a very conveniently placed table or shelf where he can place those empties to make them easy to find and clean up. I use the window-sill by my bed for coffee-cups, for instance. When we're out of coffee cups, I know where to find a few ;) Maybe plan on spraying that room once a week. Ask your son if he has some ideas on what will be most convenient for him. 

>>My feelings are hurt because I feel disregarded<<

What if you shift that to "depended on". That's what he's doing - he's counting on you to be the grownup. 

---Meredith

Joyce Fetteroll

> have noticed in situations like this, when my son is the host or in the "power seat"
> with his friends, that he moves through his world as if he is in control of everything

Most everyone who has taught Sunday school has noticed the phenomenon that your own kids are the worst behaved. Even Kat who is pretty mellow could go through a personality shift when she had a friend over.

There's some weird subconscious primal dynamic at play, I think. It might be that all the other kids are free of their parents so the one with a parent feels compelled to put on a show of not being controlled.

Since you've been controlling, I'd let it go. Some time in the future, when he doesn't feel the control of the past, if there's one thing that really bugs you, bring it up when you're both relaxed. He's probably unaware of his actions. He's just responding to emotions swirling around in him. Like if he's really rude when asking for something with his friends around, you can come up with a humorous response like saying lightly, "Monkeys get bananas." That way he won't feel reprimanded in front of his friends. But see it similar to the way kids get energetic and loud at parties. It would be unreasonable to expect them to be quiet. But it's not unreasonable to help them not hurt others! ;-)

> I am also struggling with how to interact with my son when I ask him
> specifically not to take the bag of chips to his room because of bugs and mice,
> and he does it anyway.

Right now he's reacting to past control by rejecting anything that feels like control, even the good ideas. So the first step is to recognize he'll need to do some healing before he can make decisions rationally rather than reactionary. This could easily take 6 months. Or more.

It can help to shift your perspective from controlling him to controlling mice and mess. That can be a tricky mental shift to make since it can seem like you need to control his actions to control the mice and mess. Have a policy that some food needs eaten in the kitchen. If someone eats out of the kitchen, don't get mad. See it as a need, a problem in need of a better solution. They're hungry. They went looking for something tasty and portable. Bring something else and take the chips back to the kitchen. Or remind them. Or put the chips up so they need to ask. Don't see any of this as punishment but as strategies to battle the mice. If a particular anti-mice strategy isn't working for them, work with them to find something that does.

Draw them into your project, invite them to help with ideas. But own the problem. Don't see the kids as conscripted deputies in *your* fight against mice but as people trying to meet their needs amidst a project of yours that's making it more difficult for them. Be sympathetic and help them meet their needs AND yours without making their lives more difficult.

Something that will be a big help is:

Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira Kirshenbaum
http://www.amazon.com/Parent-Teen-Breakthrough-Relationship-Approach/dp/0452266165/

It's about teens but it will be a huge help to read it now. The more (unconscious) relationship damage you can avoid now, the fewer problems you'll have when they are teens.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-I don't feel like I can explain everything like y'all have for me.

-=-He's probably not lacking an explanation. -=-


Well he might be lacking an explanation, but partly because he doesn't want one.
AND... it's true someone new to unschooling can't explain it the way Always Learning can.

But there are people who come to Always Learning, who  want to know, who WANT to understand, who have access to all the archives and the links and direct input from lots of experienced unschoolers, and they still can't get it.

That means it's not easy to understand. :-)

Debbie's right, though—pushing makes it worse.  Slow down.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=- am struggling with food control in these situations, especially when I am cooking a large dinner for everyone and they are eating a big bag of chips five minutes before it is done.-=-

Don't cook a large dinner for a sleepover, nor for ANY party involving kids.  Put out party food, snack food, finger foods, things that are easy to put back in the fridge, and easy for them to get back out in a few hours.

To be angry that your idea of a sit-down meal didn't work is misplaced.  
If you want to command the sun to come up, do your calculations in advance. :-)

Sandra

<alohabun@...>

<<I am struggling with food control in these situations, especially when I am cooking a large dinner for everyone and they are eating a big bag of chips five minutes before it is done.>>

When you are writing about the chips before dinner, is "everyone" your children and husband or your children and their friends who are coming to sleepover?  

Either way, I'd focus on my gift of food and let it be up to each person whether they wished to eat it or not.  I'd try to let go of expectations that people will not snack before dinner or come right when it is hot and ready.  Make it with love and offer it when it is ready, but be happy to save it for later if that works best for your family and friends. 

If you know that the group of people eating would enjoy finger foods, make those.  Quesadillas, for example, can be cut up into small pieces and can be filled with a variety of nutritious foods. They are easy to save as well.  My husband, my oldest daughter and I like them with chicken, corn, refried beans, cheddar and veggies.  My younger daughter likes cheese and corn. We made them for dinner last night, and I pulled out a couple for lunch today.  Still delicious and I was glad had leftovers!

Regarding food in the bedroom: Can you vacuum more often (maybe once a day) in rooms where food is eaten to help minimize crumbs attracting mice?    

Laurie