<lorna.laurie@...>

Here's my main question: Nicola, age 16, has only very recently decided to leave school and has brought up about getting a job at Barnes & noble and I am concerned that one she starts making a little money that she will shift her focus to that. Of course money will need to be made, but I am struggling whether it would be a good learning experience for her or be something that will create another block from this period of allowing expansion of the self. Initially, I told her this was her time to allow life, learning, and experiences to happen without the money factor. She has accepted that, though I am still thinking about whether that's the right way to go. I would appreciate feedback.Thanks!

chris ester

Earning your own money is very empowering, and a great learning experience.  It is also empowering to be able to quit your job, without the fear that usually accompanies such a decision.  

You may want to examine your own fears and beliefs about work and what kind of work is valuable.  When I was a teen, there was a lot of disparagement of jobs in the service sector.  My parents did not share that value, and I tried not to as well.  

Why are concerned that she will shift her focus to earning money?  Did your daughter "accept" your pronouncement about "her time to allow life, learning, and experiences to happen without the money factor.", or did she just realize that argument or disagreement was not going to be useful or get her anywhere? Do you allow for reasoned argument?  More importantly, does your daughter believe that you allow for reasoned argument?  

I was abashed a while ago when I realized that my son would give up his desires or ideas if he thought that I either didn't approve or agree with him.  I am an outspoken, opinionated person who can be brusque.  I do not mean to be over bearing, but that is apparently the effect that my loud mouth can have.  It broke my heart to realize that my son thought that he wasn't allowed to disagree or do something that I might not be entirely enthusiastic about.  I had to learn to temper my presentation.  I was usually just playing devil's advocate, trying to be helpful in pointing out things to plan for.  I thought that I was being pragmatic and helpful.  My son thought that I was being judgmental and negative.  

If she is not being forced to have a job, I would probably encourage her to do just what she wants to do.

chris



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:33 PM, <lorna.laurie@...> wrote:
 

Here's my main question: Nicola, age 16, has only very recently decided to leave school and has brought up about getting a job at Barnes & noble and I am concerned that one she starts making a little money that she will shift her focus to that. Of course money will need to be made, but I am struggling whether it would be a good learning experience for her or be something that will create another block from this period of allowing expansion of the self. Initially, I told her this was her time to allow life, learning, and experiences to happen without the money factor. She has accepted that, though I am still thinking about whether that's the right way to go. I would appreciate feedback.Thanks!


Lorna Laurie

Thank you very much for your candor. I am in fact very open to reasoned argument and we always discuss all angles, but I suddenly realize that I think I was not in touch with how I could have responded to her by saying, "Can I please have some time to think about what you've said?" because what I was really doing was buying myself some time to think. 

This is quite new to us as she suddenly decided to leave school very recently, though this is in its second year for my son to be charting his own course...he's taught me a lot and it's been amazing. Just going through the initial unsettled feeling at the beginning with my daughter but I'm sure I'll be relaxing in no time about staying out of her way. This is happening right now in fact and I suddenly realized the job is a great idea because it was hers and we're already looking in to it!  Your detailed and thoughtful response is greatly appreciated!


Sandra Dodd

-=-Nicola, age 16, has only very recently decided to leave school and has brought up about getting a job at Barnes & noble and I am concerned that one she starts making a little money that she will shift her focus to that.-=-

To that from what?

-=-I am struggling whether it would be a good learning experience for her or be something that will create another block from this period of allowing expansion of the self.-=-

You aren't the one who decide whether it will be a good learning experience for her.

OF COURSE she would learn, unless she hated the job. But you're not making her get a job—it would be her doing something useful and real, in the world of adults. Nothing could be better.

-=-Initially, I told her this was her time to allow life, learning, and experiences to happen without the money factor. She has accepted that...-=-

I'm surprised she accepted it, unless you explained it much more clearly than that. :-)

She won't be in Barnes & Noble prison. Even if she works 40 hours a week, there are LOTS of other hours for her to live and have experiences, but working in a store like that, she will learn all sorts of things.

-=-I am still thinking about whether that's the right way to go-=-

She's sixteen years old. I don't think you should be doing so much of her thinking for her.

When Kirby (my oldest) was sixteen, he was working in a gaming shop where he started at 14 (at first just running the Saturday morning Pokemon league tournaments, and keeping their Pokemon inventory up.

When Marty (my second) was sixteen, he worked full time at a grocery store a one-minute walk from our back gate. He had applied for part time, but they offered him full. He stayed there for over a year.

When Holly (the youngest) was sixteen, she was working babysitting across town for an unschooling mom who was working on a degree at the university.

The learning was way more important than the money, but they all made excellent use of the money, too. Marty saved almost all of his for over a year, and then travelled some.

I think if she wants to get a job you should rejoice and support her TOTALLY.

I helped Kirby make a resume when he was 21, to apply for a higher position where he was working, in Austin. I was surprised, with the resume done, that he had seven years of work experience at the age of 21. Nice!

Sandra

Gwen Montoya

Even if she hated the job, she would be learning about the type of work situations & people that she would be willing to work with.

Lots of people don't get a chance to figure that stuff out until they are older and not able to change jobs as easily.

Gwen

> <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> OF COURSE she would learn, unless she hated the job. But you're not making her get a job—it would be her doing something useful and real, in the world of adults. Nothing could be better.

Kari

FWIW, I got a job at Barnes and Noble in 1996 when I was 19. It was an introduction to a culture that I had never experienced, and for a girl from South Dakota, being surrounded by a staff that was predominantly gay, mostly over 30, full of artists and playwrights was a learning experience in itself. I worked there for the three years it took to finish college, and I can honestly say that I probably learned more shelving books than I did in my college courses. I picked up a lot of knowledge on everything from cooking to architecture to lit that I wouldn't have picked up without that job (or maybe I would have, but that's where it happened). 

I returned to that company in 2002 when I got back from backpacking around Europe and Australia. This time, I was again exposed to a culture that I had never been around before...  young suburban gamers, and that was great in itself. I worked there until my second son was born in 2005, and I learned a ton again, although I was in the cafe for part of that time and in the shipping and receiving room the rest..

Kari


BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

When I was 16 I wanted to go to  another country ( the US in that case) to be a trainee working for a dog handler to get better at it since I had been showing dogs since I was 13.
My  parents  supported me. Got me a ticked and  money . I had a couple friends that had done it and one came with me to a string of famous shows and there I found a handler to work for.
 IT was one of the best things I did in my life.
I stayed a year. Went back to Brazil.  6 months later went back to high school, graduated, took another 6 months working, went to Law School and graduated from that.
I am so thankful my parents supported that!

I learned way way more from that year working that I did in my last two years in school. It has opened doors all my life. IT still does! The people I met , the places I went.
I cannot even start listing .
Barnes and Nobles sound wonderful. Lots of books and people that love to read.  That would be great!

 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

<plaidpanties666@...>

>>I am struggling whether it would be a good learning experience for her or be something that will create another block from this period of allowing expansion of the self<<

Probably one of the best things I did as a teen was get a job. I wasn't an unschooling, but I wasn't required to get a job either, it was something I wanted to do. It was a great way for me to unlearn a lot of the bad habits of school, which didn't fit in well in a retail environment. And it was a great way for me to learn about things I liked, to explore the world in ways I hadn't really considered before, from discovering the likes of my coworkers and customers. 

And it was my first real grow-up decision. I Got a Job. Because I Wanted To. And the first job didn't work out so well (bad social skills from school!) so I got another after I was fired from that one. It was tremendously empowering to be able to do that, to make those choices. 

I interested in the fact that you see "a good learning experience" as separate from "an expansion of self". In many ways, we are what we choose to learn. If you close a door in her world, she can't learn about that, her "self" can't grow in that direction, it's curtailed. 

<lorna.laurie@...>

Thank you so much to all who gave input about the job idea. It really helped me release whatever was keeping me from this awareness. I appreciate all comments that helped me understand. This was truly profoundly valuable beyond the original question. Thanks!!