Sandra Dodd

Our problem with unschooling isn't knowing whether our two children (8 and 10 years old) are learning anything; we know that they are. We see such a width and depth of learning going on and do not want to interfere with that. It's the interpersonal dynamics that are causing a problem and I am seeking advice for how we can help to create a respectful balance for us all.

We have reached a point where everything is fine as long as the children are getting exactly what they want, when they want it. Anything else leads to complaining, whining, and/or pouting. In trying to respect the wishes/desires of all, we rarely go anywhere as an entire family because one child or the other will refuse the invitation as "uninteresting" or interfering with something they'd prefer to do.

I'm feeling quite burnt out trying to keep the house clean, the pantry stocked, snacks flowing and laundry clean, while also engaging with the kids in what they're working on (which is really difficult because my son, 10, rarely comes out of his room other than when he wants food or to complain that food he wants isn't ready/available). We have placed an extra fridge upstairs and keep it stocked with snacks. We also regularly bring special requests to his room.

We do sit with him while gaming at times, but if he's online with friends he seems to respond as if we're intruding rather than interested, and most gaming he does is online/Skype. My husband has said that he hates being treated like an "intruder" or an "inconvenience" in his son's life.

My husband & I have fallen into this flow of "tag-teaming" so that he's paired with one child and I'm paired with the other.

I did have a little time to myself this morning, but that was because my son refused to go out with all four of us, so my husband took our daughter & I stayed home with our son. Honestly, it wasn't all that great because I was pretty upset. I understand that he got a new game, but we did ask *when* he'd be willing to go out and he refused to say, other than that he couldn't tell us because he wanted to play.

So, now he's back to spending the majority of his time alone in his room. Well, until midnight, when he'll come get my husband, because he refuses to go downstairs by himself and he's hungry. He wants to look through the downstairs fridge and pantry and then ask everyone else to make things for him and deliver them to his room.

Also, my daughter is refusing to wear anything except a single pair of blue boxers that are so baggy if she isn't standing upright, you can see everything. I have been insisting that she wears something different when we leave the house. Is that so bad?

Robyn Coburn

You don't say how long you have been unschooling, which can make a difference to the immersion factor. But your son sounds a lot like my daughter, who also gets deeply immersed in her online/Skype gaming, loves her privacy, and feels most loved when I serve her food.

We suggest that people get involved with their kids' games (and watch tv with them) to see the learning and the joy, SO that parents can relax and cease worrying that gaming or TV is a problem. Secondarily it is to show the kids that their parents truly embrace and support them in their interests. 

However it doesn't mean imposing yourself into their notice and space when they are busy and content. Sometimes Jayn does feel like we are intruding on her private conversation if we want to stay and listen to her playing. Plus it is distracting for her. What is great for us now, is that she will invite us to see what she is up to inside her games - usually when none of her online friends are available to Skype. 

Your son won't have to demand his privacy, if you offer him his privacy.

Your son is 10. It will only be a couple of years before you can leave him home alone. In CA the legal age is 12, although of course ensure that he is comfortable with staying home alone at any age. (By which I do not mean expecting him babysit his sister - that is a whole different conversation). 

I actually try to find opportunities for Jayn to go out alone with her Dad. They often go out to breakfast alone, and sometimes to the store. It's really cool for a girl to have her Dad's undivided attention. I take it as an opportunity to have the house to myself. 

When Jayn was 10, asking her to make a determination of how long she would want to be playing a game, especially a new one, was beyond her abilities or her intuitive understanding of how long things take. Time disappears when you are inside a gaming world. (It does for me whenever I am writing a screenplay or even blog posts too.)

So much of her gaming schedule was tied to other people's availability too, it was really tough. It wasn't peaceful to try to hold her to whatever time she might have said. I suspect that whatever your son is saying about time is actually kid code for "go away now stop bothering me".  

If there is some special thing that you want to attend with your husband and daughter, that you know about far enough in advance to plan it, you could try getting a sitter - perhaps an older unschooling teen - to stay home while your son games. 

Not forcing her to come out with us when we want to go somewhere, is one of the things that Jayn feels most grateful for, and now at 14 she loves the feeling of being in ownership of the house. She is also more willing to tell the other people that she is leaving the game space to go out with her family.

As to the snacks, Jayn asks me to make her food most of time still. It makes her feel loved (Acts of Service as one of her two love languages I guess). But she is slowly getting more able to take responsibility for her own snacks - especially late at night. I generally let her know when I am close to going to bed, and ask her if she needs something to eat before I go. It's nice to connect with her last thing.


Robyn L. Coburn
Résumé Review WorkInProduction.com
Design Team ScraPerfect.com
Creativity Blast Blog IggyJingles.com

Pam Sorooshian



"In CA the legal age is 12,"

I don't think there is a California state law that says that. Maybe a standard used by law enforcement or something? And there might be local ordinances.

From this document:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/homealone.pdf

"Only three States currently 
have laws regarding a minimum age for 
leaving a child home alone. Illinois law 
requires children to be 14 years old before 
being left alone; in Maryland, the minimum 
age is 8, while in Oregon, children must be 
10 before being left home alone. "

-pam


Sandra Dodd

-=-When Jayn was 10, asking her to make a determination of how long she would want to be playing a game, especially a new one, was beyond her abilities or her intuitive understanding of how long things take.-=-

That's beyond anyone's ability to predict, isnt' it?

Vicki Dennis

14 in Illinois before being left alone!!   I was babysitting for hire long before then.
What about latchkey kids?  Does Illinois truly have sufficient after school programs that even eighth graders don't go home until their working parents are home?

It is simply mindboggling to me..................

vicki


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
 



"In CA the legal age is 12,"

I don't think there is a California state law that says that. Maybe a standard used by law enforcement or something? And there might be local ordinances.

From this document:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/homealone.pdf

"Only three States currently 
have laws regarding a minimum age for 
leaving a child home alone. Illinois law 
requires children to be 14 years old before 
being left alone; in Maryland, the minimum 
age is 8, while in Oregon, children must be 
10 before being left home alone. "

-pam



<plaidpanties666@...>

>>When Jayn was 10, asking her to make a determination of how long she would want to be playing a game, especially a new one, was beyond her abilities or her intuitive understanding of how long things take. Time disappears when you are inside a gaming world. <<

This is true of Morgan more generally - she tends to do things for big chunks of time, until she's "done" and it's hard for her to have a sense of how long that might be. But since that's been true of Morgan from a fairly young age, it's something I've learned to plan around. I keep an eye on the sort of rhythm of her day so I have a general sense of when's a good time to do something. I also know that new things - new books, games, online friends, etc - are going to attract a lot more of her time and energy than familiar things. 

Robyn Coburn

Am I wrong about the age? I guess I was trusting the info from casual conversations with other home schoolers, mostly because I wasn't testing it at the time. I will do some research and see what I can turn up, but it won't be instant. I'm not sure from what the OP comes anyway. Thanks Pam.

Robyn Coburn
Résumé Review http://WorkInProduction.com
Creativity Blast http://IggyJingles.com
Design Team http://scraPerfect.com

Deborah Cunefare

Wow. I wouldn't rely on the information from that from document to be accurate at all. It's certainly not accurate for Illinois, which DOES NOT have a law regarding minimum age to be left alone. The 14 seems to come from a slapdash hasty reading of the available information from DCFS, which actually goes into a lengthy explanation of the circumstances that must be taken into account when deciding whether or not it is neglectful to leave a child under 14 alone, which are individual to both the child and the situation.


**From this document:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/homealone.pdf

"Only three States currently
have laws regarding a minimum age for
leaving a child home alone. Illinois law
requires children to be 14 years old before
being left alone; in Maryland, the minimum
age is 8, while in Oregon, children must be
10 before being left home alone. " **