kirkpatrick clare

Does unschooling mean that children won't learn how to accept delayed gratification? This question doesn't come from me, but from a relative who is concerned our children will grow up expecting to get everything they want as soon as they want it. I don't believe they will and I'm not about to say 'no' to them just so they learn a lesson in delayed gratification <am picturing myself saying 'no', then looking at my watch for a prescribed amount of time, then saying 'yes, OK, you can now' to requests from the children :D> but I didn't know how to answer him.

Sandra Dodd

-=-This question doesn't come from me, but from a relative who is concerned our children will grow up expecting to get everything they want as soon as they want it.-=-

The purpose of this group isn't to be a source of answers for everyone's relatives.  As you learn more about unschooling, you'll be able to provide answers from your own experience.  

One good thing to do for relatives would be to ask them to read about unschooling.  Probably the best thing is Pam Laricchia's book "Free to Learn." If you haven't read it yourself yet, that would be a good thing, too.  It's very inexpensive in paper or ebook, and available in the UK, too.


Links that might help you with the particular question of delayed gratification will require some reading.  They're not going to be "yes it does," or "no, it never does."  Nothing is that simple.  There are principles to understand so that the parent can beging to make decisions in new ways for new reasons. 

Some people seem to hope that "becoming an unschooler" is like joining a church, professing faith, being baptized, and after that things are just different.  No, it's a build-a-different-life situation that takes many years.


Those have links to other pages, too.

Sandra

Karen

>>>>>concerned our children will grow up expecting to get everything they
> want as soon as they want it.<<<<<

Life gives us all limits whether we're insanely wealthy or living with less means. Nobody can have everything they want whenever they want it. Most people learn to adapt to that reality.

I believe that when arbitrary limits are imposed, problems arise. That's not because a person does not have the ability to accept reality. It's because reality has been purposefully distorted for the benefit of one person over another. And, when that person, who is at the mercy of those arbitrary rules challenges those limits, we call them names like greedy, impulsive, never satisfied, etc.

When I was first beginning to learn about unschooling, I didn't talk with family or casual friends about what we were doing. With most people, I kept my dialogue surrounding our homeschooling vague and positive. That helped to keep questions to a minimum until I had enough understanding and accumulated evidence to be able to talk about our lives with conviction and proof of concept.

For now, read Pam Larrichia's book, as Sandra suggested (it's excellent), and really watch your children learn - learn about everything. The more you understand their learning, the more you will understand the nature of learning. Consequently, the easier it will become to answer other people's questions, or dodge them as you see fit.

Karen.

Joyce Fetteroll


On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:35 AM, kirkpatrick clare <clare.kirkpatrick@...> wrote:

Does unschooling mean that children won't learn how to accept delayed gratification?

I think the answer is clearer if parents see themselves as someone who helps their child get what they want rather than someone who gives their child what they want.

Parents can lend their child their power. Parents can be a resource of ability and knowledge the child can tap into.

Sometimes helping will be giving. Sometimes helping will be adding to a wish list. Sometimes it will be making plans. Sometimes it will be coming up with possibilities.

It's using *with* kids the same tools they'll be using as adults to meet their needs.

Joyce

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think the answer is clearer if parents see themselves as someone who helps their child get what they want rather than someone who gives their child what they want.-=-

Joyce wrote that, and it's beautifully put!

This afternoon I saw that a bus bench near me had been destroyed.  It's the kind made of grey recycled-plastic "wood"—made to look like concrete and wood, but it's dense plastic, put together like a rail fence, sort of.    Someone had broken it and the pieces were lying around.  

Think about whethere it's more likely that was done by someone who was helped to get what he wanted, when he wanted it, or whether it was more likely someone who was needy of things, attention, regard.  NOT having things and being told it's better not to have things, that people who have things are spoiled and rude, but NOT having things builds character.... that builds resentment and need.  

I would also bet money that the kids (probably teens or early 20's) who broke that have parents who have badmouthed video games and would have been glad in some part of them that their kids were out with friends instead of playing video games.  

I wish they had been playing video games, or been at home with parents who loved them enough to fill them up with attention, positive regard, stories, experiences, and love.  I bet the city will wish that too, and the people who wait for the bus there.

People make virtues to stick onto kids who are pliable and docile about being told no, wait, later, when you're grown, don't, stop.  Their "rewards" are often the weakest, slimmest praise  and promises.

Sandra

tandos mama

Of course life presents real limitations of all kinds. The difference, for us, is that unschooling has helped us help our kids respond to them in healthy, happy ways. When lightening forces us out of the pool we shift to something fun indoors. If water is necessary the tub might work; if roughhousing is preferred bouncing on the 2nd mattress can suffice. When our kids want to fly to Hawaii, Brazil or China at a moment's notice we might look up photos and information about the places, cook dish with foods from their desired destination or read some folktales originating there.

At every age and income level there are real limits to what is possible. That trip to the moon just wasn't going to really happen, but meanwhile the cardboard rockets to ride in, baking soda or potato rockets to really launch, silly rhyming race to space songs, library books, science museum trips, cheese pizza and lemon pie recipes (if you know Laurie Berkner) have been incredibly rich.

Meanwhile we're all saving up to buy some real airline tickets. I doubt we'll get to China or Hawaii, but Wisconsin (where grandma lives) is a real possibility and goes well with silly cheese songs too.

Tori

Sandra Dodd

-=-Wisconsin (where grandma lives) is a real possibility and goes well with silly cheese songs too.-=-

Depending what part of WI she's in, might a side trip be a possibility, at least for the mom? :-)
http://minnesotaallive2014.blogspot.com

I don't know if it's a silly cheese song. It's pretty serious, for Animaniacs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YewmHfewb9c

Here's one you can sing along to karaoke-like (but you'll need to print out the lyrics):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGJddyLxWBI

And here's the original music in case someone's kids wonder.  It's Semper Fidelis by John Philip Sousa who wrote a lots of march music in the late 19th century.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nc09j6Veok

And a fancier studio-recorded version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeqTyO5Mbs
(Don't show that one to impressionable young American men if you don't want them to consider joining the marines.  One unschooler I've known since he was two joined and came back safely...)

That song will be about cheese for millions of kids the ages of mine, though, forevermore.  
Semper Casius   
(Frank, or someone, what form does that cheese  need to take? :-)

Sandra


Sandra Dodd

-=-Cheese is "caseus" - second declension. -=-

None is Caseun, though, so "as the caissons go rolling along" can't be considered cheesy...   

Sandra

Sylvia Woodman

==-==I wish they had been playing video games, or been at home with parents who loved them enough to fill them up with attention, positive regard, stories, experiences, and love.  I bet the city will wish that too, and the people who wait for the bus there.==-== This sounds like it could be part of a Letter to the Editor of a local paper.  :-)

Sylvia
Gabriella (9.5)
Harry (7.5)




On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 7:41 AM, tandos mama <tori.arpad.cotta@...> wrote:
 

Of course life presents real limitations of all kinds. The difference, for us, is that unschooling has helped us help our kids respond to them in healthy, happy ways. When lightening forces us out of the pool we shift to something fun indoors. If water is necessary the tub might work; if roughhousing is preferred bouncing on the 2nd mattress can suffice. When our kids want to fly to Hawaii, Brazil or China at a moment's notice we might look up photos and information about the places, cook dish with foods from their desired destination or read some folktales originating there.

At every age and income level there are real limits to what is possible. That trip to the moon just wasn't going to really happen, but meanwhile the cardboard rockets to ride in, baking soda or potato rockets to really launch, silly rhyming race to space songs, library books, science museum trips, cheese pizza and lemon pie recipes (if you know Laurie Berkner) have been incredibly rich.

Meanwhile we're all saving up to buy some real airline tickets. I doubt we'll get to China or Hawaii, but Wisconsin (where grandma lives) is a real possibility and goes well with silly cheese songs too.

Tori