Clare Kirkpatrick

I'd like to ask a question about the most helpful all-round responses when your spouse 'mucks up'. My husband is behind the ethos of unschooling but isn't reading about it or discussing it as much as I am. Consequently his responses to the children are suddenly very obviously non-unschoolish to my eye. The children often appeal to me when he starts getting cross about things that no longer bother me - playing around at bedtime for example - or when he says mindless no's to requests for things I would say yes to. I recognise his need to learn unschooling at his pace ie. I don't want him to switch from mindless no's to mindless yesses and then get panicked and make things worse. However I also want to support the children while not undermining their relationship with their very wonderful father. So, in the moment, what can I do that will be the most helpful to all parties? 

Thanks

Clare


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<groups@...>



---In [email protected], <clare.kirkpatrick@...> wrote:

"I'd like to ask a question about the most helpful all-round responses when your spouse 'mucks up'. My husband is behind the ethos of unschooling but isn't reading about it or discussing it as much as I am. Consequently his responses to the children are suddenly very obviously non-unschoolish to my eye. The children often appeal to me when he starts getting cross about things that no longer bother me - playing around at bedtime for example - or when he says mindless no's to requests for things I would say yes to. I recognise his need to learn unschooling at his pace ie. I don't want him to switch from mindless no's to mindless yesses and then get panicked and make things worse. However I also want to support the children while not undermining their relationship with their very wonderful father. So, in the moment, what can I do that will be the most helpful to all parties? "

Hi Clare

Unschooling is for everyone in the family and if you are currently the one doing the thinking and driving the "unschooling" then maybe the best way is to consider your husband's needs and how to meet them alongside yours and the children's.


So to start with bedtime:  Talk about everyone's needs, voice to him and the children what you think they may be: 

e.g. "You want to keep playing and Dad wants some quiet time because....." Just voicing that can help everyone adjust their own behaviour and find ways to do what they want while allowing other family members to have what they want too.  It may take more than that, you may need to make suggestions of ways they and he might find ways to each get what they need.


In our house if one or other parent says a "mindless no" the other often notices and turns it into a "yes" or an explanation. It's not undermining it's just acknowledging that the other parent isn't in the creative space to say yes for some reason. That's ok that happens.  It's usually a sign that "no saying" parent has some unmet needs so it's a flag for quiet time or a bit of parental autonomy or attention from the spouse or the need for a walk, or to go for a run or to have some conversation or better organisation or....... so many possibilities that will make it easier for the parent to be more creative next time.


There will be times when it's easier for him to say "yes" than it is for you, in those moments ask him for help, or acknowledge that he's managed it when you couldn't see the way. 


Elizabeth

Sandra Dodd

I like what Elizabeth wrote.  

This proved true at our house, after just a few early years in which I got it and Keith wasn't understanding completely.  "There will be times when it's easier for him to say "yes" than it is for you, in those moments ask him for help, or acknowledge that he's managed it when you couldn't see the way. "

Lots of times when the dad *does* get it, he has a big leap of understanding and passes the mom.

But I do want to say that the mom shouldn't move into unschooing if the dad is unwilling, because that can contribute to unhappiness that can lead to divorce.   A peaceful, intact family is more valuable to a child than unschooling is, and divorce often leads to no family and no unschooling, so pushing husbands isn't good for the chidlren, overall.

Sandra

<anniel_5@...>

Sometimes when my husband has given an unthinking no, or said something that could dampen the kids' excitement, I can sweeten it by adding and explanation or something kind, so I'm not over riding his 'no', just lifting the atmosphere and that works much better than when I used to feel tense or upset about his words (then all 5 of us would be tense and it wasn't peaceful at all).


For example the other night the 5 of us went for a walk on our property. I knew Tony was starting to think about the amount of time we had left before it was dark, although the kids were unaware of this, and I thought we still had plenty of time. All of a sudden, as the kids were about to head off on a new track, Tony said 'No, that's far enough, we're going back'. They were obviously disappointed and surprised and about to argue, or grudgingly come back (depending on personality) and I said 'Hey, look, the sun IS about to set! It'll be much easier to get back across the creek while its still light like this. I wonder if we'll get back to the house before its completely dark or if the light will be gone first...' and then it was fun to go back and race the light and we all walked home happily.


I find too that if I can remember to do something like that instead of argue the kids' case, he starts to do it as well, sometimes he will say no and then rephrase it himself, or even rethink sometimes. And if I really do disagree with his 'no' then I will try to discuss it with him in private, rather than in front of the kids.


Annie



BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

That was wonderful Annie! Thanks for sharing!

I have done the same when the issue was between the kids. 
My husband was always wonderful but he has gotten sweeter when I started treating him the way I do with my kids.
There are times he is tired and upset and he may say something to the kids  that I can see it hurts their feelings.
You gave me a good idea ! I can probably make things better  doing something like that and not lecturing him or calling him out in the moment.


 
Alex Polikowsky
 
 
 

tandos mama

Annie's story is beautiful and inspiring like many I've read here.

I made an unexpected, but incredibly helpful, discovery when I made a conscious effort to sweeten the situation rather than contradict my husband on behalf of our kids. I needed to listen carefully, to really hear him, in order to come up with effective ways to help our kids understand their dad's requests (which often sounded more like demands).

I needed to listen carefully and really hear my husband.

Sounds pretty obvious, but it was radically eye-opening. It was self-evident to me that I needed to pay attention to our kids, to understand their interests and to accommodate them, and facilitate for them as best I could. But I began family life not realizing that my husband, although an adult, needed accommodating too. I'm quite certain that what I continue to learn via unschooling is responsible for the strong marriage we have. As I learn to listen, my husband becomes more and more open to hearing our kids and me as well. A win-win all around.

Tori

Sandra Dodd

-=-t I began family life not realizing that my husband, although an adult, needed accommodating too.-=-

That was nice, what you wrote.

The nicer I am to my husband, the better I feel in my whole life.  I know not everyone's husband is easy to be nice to, and mine isn't always, and is more now than he was sometimes in the past.  When one of us is tired, hurt, cranky, frustrated, the person with the greatest stake in helping, is the other of us.  

When we had three young children, it was hard for me to pay good attention to Keith, but the better I got at it, the softer we all felt.  I'm glad we had seven years (six, eight, depends how to count it) before we had our first child, so that we had lots of good memories of us as a couple to remember when we were sleep deprived and feeling worried, having children when we didn't have much money, and we had a roof that leaked.  My husband knows my relatives, even those who have died.  He knows friends of mine who have come and gone.  He was there, when I broke my leg in 1985, and took care of me when I broke my ankle fifteen years or so later. I used to drive him to university classes when he hurt his foot, and I typed his papers for him when he broke his wrist, in the early 1980's.  

Now our children are grown, and we're together if they need us.  It's better for us financially and emotionally, that we stayed together.  We can leave up family photos, until one of us dies, not needing to cover over earlier history to soothe the feelings of a newer spouse.  The kids don't need to decide which of us to call first when there's exciting news, or a problem.  If they end up taking care of us, it won't be as hard as if they're needing to help us in two different houses.   

For people who are still married to their children's other parent, don't be reckless.  If you're angry, try not to say what you're thinking.  People can have their feelings irreparably damaged by words, glares, sharp hateful little actions.  If you can breathe, or walk away, instead, the urge to harm your partner will pass.  Just as it's better not to hit children or yell at them, it's better not to deliver cutting insult to someone who might potentially someday help you put your socks on when you're too old to do it, while reminiscing about people you used to know, and places you went when you were young.

Being patient and kind makes you a person who is patient and kind.

Sandra

chris ester

I think this is a wonderful example Annie, thank you.  I always try to remember that my husband is the "other" grown up, that I am NOT the lone parent or voice of reason; that my husband has reasons for what he says or does.  I don't have to agree with his reasons, but be understanding and respectful of HIS humanity and the fact that is as deserving of my being sweet as the rest of us.
chris


On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:23 PM, <anniel_5@...> wrote:
 

Sometimes when my husband has given an unthinking no, or said something that could dampen the kids' excitement, I can sweeten it by adding and explanation or something kind, so I'm not over riding his 'no', just lifting the atmosphere and that works much better than when I used to feel tense or upset about his words (then all 5 of us would be tense and it wasn't peaceful at all).


For example the other night the 5 of us went for a walk on our property. I knew Tony was starting to think about the amount of time we had left before it was dark, although the kids were unaware of this, and I thought we still had plenty of time. All of a sudden, as the kids were about to head off on a new track, Tony said 'No, that's far enough, we're going back'. They were obviously disappointed and surprised and about to argue, or grudgingly come back (depending on personality) and I said 'Hey, look, the sun IS about to set! It'll be much easier to get back across the creek while its still light like this. I wonder if we'll get back to the house before its completely dark or if the light will be gone first...' and then it was fun to go back and race the light and we all walked home happily.


I find too that if I can remember to do something like that instead of argue the kids' case, he starts to do it as well, sometimes he will say no and then rephrase it himself, or even rethink sometimes. And if I really do disagree with his 'no' then I will try to discuss it with him in private, rather than in front of the kids.


Annie




Marina Moses

Sandra,
Can I post what you wrote in this thread on Facebook? I would credit your name of course. So many people struggle in their marriages and I believe these words are very inspirational and practical at the same time. Many of my friends would benefit greatly. 

Love and Prayers,
Marina 

Sandra Dodd

-=-Can I post what you wrote in this thread on Facebook? I would credit your name of course. So many people struggle in their marriages and I believe these words are very inspirational and practical at the same time. Many of my friends would benefit greatly. -=-

I guess so, as long as you're not quoting someone else, too.

Pretty much you can quote anything I write in public if you put my name on it.  A link to my website would be nice, too, if it's convenient—to SandraDodd.com, so they'll see Just Add Light and Stir..  Links to this forum used to be great, but not that only members can read, not as nice.  :-/