<princessjasmine05@...>

I'm trying to figure out a blind spot I am having.  I give my kids a lot of choices, but in some things I am not giving them as much choice as they would like.  My daughter in particular is very sensitive to being told to do or not to do anything.  


Today we were at a birthday party at a park we had played at the day before.  The kids got completely soaked and muddy yesterday, which was fine.  I had extra clothes and we weren't there to hang out with other people.  Today, the other kids at the party were told not to get dirty and wet.  I had prepped the kids beforehand that we would need to stay in the area of the party while it was happening and not get wet and dirty because a) I didn't have extra clothes and b) I didn't think the other parents would want their kids to get that dirty.  


After the party, we walked around the park with the group of kids from the party and played; and when we passed the places we had played yesterday, my daughter really wanted to get into a big water hole (maybe 18 inches or so deep) and get dirty.  I told her it would make the other kids want to get wet too--they had put their feet in the water when she did.  I said they would probably get in trouble if they got dirty; and if they didn't, they would probably feel it was unfair that she could and they couldn't.  I also said it wouldn't be a nice thing to do.  As I was saying these things, I felt pressure to keep her out of the off limits areas and anxiety because I knew she wouldn't happily go along with it.  She responded by saying she would kick me if she had to (so she could do what she wanted).  I felt flustered and upset and said we should probably head home.  She really wanted to stay, so we did.  I said if we stayed, they shouldn't do things the other kids were not allowed to do.  This situation recurred a few more times as we wandered the park and my kids wanted to do things that in other circumstances would have probably been ok.  


I know I am overly sensitive to my perception of other people's judgments and thoughts about my parenting style at times.  I am also very hesitant to allow my kids to do anything that might hurt someone else's feelings or cause them to be uncomfortable or lead them to get into trouble.  At the same time, I realize intellectually that my kids' learning and growth requires me to accept that they will hurt others' feelings and make choices I will wish they hadn't.  I know I am expecting my daughter to care more about her friends and acquaintances than her desire to play in the ways she prefers, which makes her angry.  What would be a better way to approach this situation?  It comes up in a variety of ways, each slightly different in detail, but with the same underlying issues I think.  


My kids often insist they can do anything they want and that I (or someone else) can't tell them what to do.  This makes me think they are either feeling controlled or that I have led them to believe this is true and have failed to exercise appropriate authority. 


Another brief example: my daughter wanted to cut a hole in part of a tent her grandmother bought her for Christmas last year, and I wouldn't let her.  I did bring her other things she could cut.  She said it was her tent and she could cut it.  I tried to explain why some things are not ok to cut--they can be permanently damaged and can't be replaced, they are expensive, they have been given as gifts and would upset the gift giver if they are destroyed.  She said she should be able to cut up her own things.  I don't think I should let her cut nice things that we can't replace, but I also don't know how to communicate that or help her do something more appropriate without her feeling controlled.  At her age (6 years) it is very difficult to distract her and she has such a strong sense of wanting to make her own choices.  


Part of the problem is perhaps how I am communicating and my anxiety and discomfort at the conflict between us.  Part of the problem is sometimes I swing too far in the direction of appeasing the other parents and realize later something was not as big a deal as I thought at the time.  Part of it is I am sometimes fuzzy about what is or isn't ok, which choices and mistakes are ok to experiment with and which are not.  I don't know if I should have allowed her to get muddy and dirty and then perhaps upset the other kids or lure them into trouble and then ride home dirty and wet and uncomfortable.  I don't think so. That doesn't seem right to me.  But it also doesn't seem good for our relationship that she sees me as attempting to control her


Lydia K.

Nisa, 6
Yeshaiah 4
Violet 10months 

Joyce Fetteroll


On Oct 20, 2013, at 2:41 AM, <princessjasmine05@...> <princessjasmine05@...> wrote:

My daughter in particular is very sensitive to being told to do or not to do anything. 

Have you read:

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.
http://amzn.to/JCilMW

and

Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, Energetic by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka
http://tinyurl.com/4nlgt8b

 I said if we stayed, they shouldn't do things the other kids were not allowed to do.  This situation recurred a few more times as we wandered the park

It seems like your goal is getting your kids to understand why they can't have something so they'll stop getting upset.

That's not reasonable. Their reactions are showing you that they can't yet. 

Avoid as much as you can. Offer other ideas. When you can't or that doesn't work, be understanding and sympathetic to who they are right now. Be *calm* as you sympathize. Radiate a calm, peaceful emotional atmosphere. Some moms can get that "Oh I'm so sorry! I wish things were different! I really really sorry!" tone. That just feeds into the upset emotional state in the kids and makes it harder for the child. And some moms can be emotionless with "Sorry, that's just how things are,"  that really says, "You're bothering me by being upset over nothing." Kids need the offer of a calm anchor to attach to (when they're able), not a fellow sufferer or someone who turns their back on them.

At the same time, I realize intellectually that my kids' learning and growth requires me to accept that they will hurt others' feelings and make choices I will wish they hadn't.

There will be times you can't prevent them from hurting someone. But do prevent it when you can.

I agree it can be tricky. In the midst of a situation, it can be hard to step back to see objectively. Maybe a guiding principle is when you're in public, help them be people others want to be around.


My kids often insist they can do anything they want and that I (or someone else) can't tell them what to do. 

You could laugh and say *you* can't do anything you want! If you started dancing in the fountain (or whatever) the park rangers would come and make you stop.

I tried to explain why some things are not ok to cut ...

Again you tried to get her to understand. She *is* right. It was her tent. But I think you're right. I would lean on the side of her future self wouldn't appreciate it if she cut the tent. And it would make Grandma sad to think she didn't like the present.

A child who really wants to treat the cat as roughly as she can a stuffed toy is going to be upset if she's stopped. But it's still the kindest thing to stop her. A tent isn't a cat but her future self and Grandma are part of what she wants to do.

Joyce




Fundayeveryday

I don't know if this option was possible at the party but... could you have brought extra clothes as you did the day before and tell your kids that after the party is over they can jump in the water hole ? If the other parents don't want their children wet even after the party then they can explain their own reasonings to their children. you letting your kids get wet and have fun after restraining from doing so throughout the party would be a happy thing!!!

princessjasmine05@... wrote:

�

I'm trying to figure out a blind spot I am having. �I give my kids a lot of choices, but in some things I am not giving them as much choice as they would like. �My daughter in particular is very sensitive to being told to do or not to do anything. �


Today we were at a birthday party at a park we had played at the day before. �The kids got completely soaked and muddy yesterday, which was fine. �I had extra clothes and we weren't there to hang out with other people. �Today, the other kids at the party were told not to get dirty and wet. �I had prepped the kids beforehand that we would need to stay in the area of the party while it was happening and not get wet and dirty because a) I didn't have extra clothes and b) I didn't think the other parents would want their kids to get that dirty. �


After the party, we walked around the park with the group of kids from the party and played; and when we passed the places we had played yesterday, my daughter really wanted to get into a big water hole (maybe 18 inches or so deep) and get dirty. �I told her it would make the other kids want to get wet too--they had put their feet in the water when she did. �I said they would probably get in trouble if they got dirty; and if they didn't, they would probably feel it was unfair that she could and they couldn't. �I also said it wouldn't be a nice thing to do. �As I was saying these things, I felt pressure to keep her out of the off limits areas and anxiety because I knew she wouldn't happily go along with it. �She responded by saying she would kick me if she had to (so she could do what she wanted). �I felt flustered and upset and said we should probably head home. �She really wanted to stay, so we did. �I said if we stayed, they shouldn't do things the other kids were not allowed to do. �This situation recurred a few more times as we wandered the park and my kids wanted to do things that in other circumstances would have probably been ok. �


I know I am overly sensitive to my perception of other people's judgments and thoughts about my parenting style at times. �I am also very hesitant to allow my kids to do anything that might hurt someone else's feelings or cause them to be uncomfortable or lead them to get into trouble. �At the same time, I realize intellectually that my kids' learning and growth requires me to accept that they will hurt others' feelings and make choices I will wish they hadn't. �I know I am expecting my daughter to care more about her friends and acquaintances than her desire to play in the ways she prefers, which makes her angry. �What would be a better way to approach this situation? �It comes up in a variety of ways, each slightly different in detail, but with the same underlying issues I think. �


My kids often insist they can do anything they want and that I (or someone else) can't tell them what to do. �This makes me think they are either feeling controlled or that I have led them to believe this is true and have failed to exercise appropriate authority.�


Another brief example: my daughter wanted to cut a hole in part of a tent her grandmother bought her for Christmas last year, and I wouldn't let her. �I did bring her other things she could cut. �She said it was her tent and she could cut it. �I tried to explain why some things are not ok to cut--they can be permanently damaged and can't be replaced, they are expensive, they have been given as gifts and would upset the gift giver if they are destroyed. �She said she should be able to cut up her own things. �I don't think I should let her cut nice things that we can't replace, but I also don't know how to communicate that or help her do something more appropriate without her feeling controlled. �At her age (6 years) it is very difficult to distract her and she has such a strong sense of wanting to make her own choices. �


Part of the problem is perhaps how I am communicating and my anxiety and discomfort at the conflict between us. �Part of the problem is sometimes I swing too far in the direction of appeasing the other parents and realize later something was not as big a deal as I thought at the time. �Part of it is I am sometimes fuzzy about what is or isn't ok, which choices and mistakes are ok to experiment with and which are not. �I don't know if I should have allowed her to get muddy and dirty and then perhaps upset the other kids or lure them into trouble and then ride home dirty and wet and uncomfortable. �I don't think so. That doesn't seem right to me. �But it also doesn't seem good for our relationship that she sees me as attempting to control her


Lydia K.

Nisa, 6
Yeshaiah 4
Violet 10months�

Meredith Novak

>> My daughter in particular is very sensitive to being told to do or not to do anything.<<
 
I wonder if part of the problem is they Way you're telling her - because from what you describe, you're not so much saying no as trying to explain why what she wants to do isn't a good idea right now, which could be pretty annoying from her perspective. In a way, it's worse than saying no, it's saying "what you think and feel and desire isn't as important as blah blah blah blah blah". From her perspective, you're trying to teach her to make the decisions you want her to make.
 
>>My kids often insist they can do anything they want and that I (or someone else) can't tell them what to do.  This makes me think they are either feeling controlled or that I have led them to believe this is true and have failed to exercise appropriate authority.<<
 
Or they think they can argue their point with you - which isn't necessarily a bad thing! Being little kids, their arguments aren't going to be super logical and sophisticated, they're going to take the form of "but I really want to" and "you can't tell me what to do" and "I'll kick you if I can't". The problem seems more that you're taking their reactions personally, as some kind of critique of you or your parenting. Instead, see their arguments as a difference of opinion and think about what they want in the moment. That doesn't necessarily mean saying "yes, you're right" but don't jump right to explaining how very wrong they are, either. It won't help anything in the moment. Say "not today" or "next time" or "I'm sorry" and move on.
 
>> She said it was her tent and she could cut it.  I tried to explain why some things are not ok to cut--they can be permanently damaged and can't be replaced, they are expensive, they have been given as gifts and would upset the gift giver if they are destroyed.  She said she should be able to cut up her own things.<<
 
She has a point - it's hers. She wants to improve it. Why the heck would grandma's feelings be hurt by that? From her perspective, it's like you're saying the tent still belongs to grandma, since what grandma wants is so much more important than what she wants. So maybe in the future, "gifts" from grandma need to be clarified a bit - they're not really gifts, they're loans or rentals, or gifts to you and you're letting the kids use them. They're more like... the family car, or the furniture in your house, or family games and puzzles: they don't really belong to the kids, and the kids don't get to make structural decisions about those things.

But again, it's not helpful for you to try and convince the kids to agree with your perspective. In fact, when you do that, you diminish their ability to see others' perspectives - why should they care what other people want or like, since those things are always linked to personal frustration and disappointment. Instead, commiserate with their perspectives. It sucks that they can't paly in the mud. It's a bummer not to be able to improve that almost-perfect toy or game. Take their feelings all the more seriously when the answer is "no".
 
---Meredith

Virginia Warren

Saying "no" on the nicest way possible is important. Notice the difference between "I don't want to do that right now" and "That's a bad idea".

It is a pretty common verbal "trick" to couch a "no" inside a monologue that implies that the requestor was wrong to ask in the first place. It adds insult to injury. It's a defense mechanism. It's totally understandable, and extremely common, but it does not improve relationships. If I'm on defense, I'm not on my child's team.

<claire.horsley08@...>

I think these situations will become less fraught as your unschooling confidence grows. You'll use fewer words to convey in a calm and friendly way that you do not want them to play in the mud at a party. After all they had a fantastic time the day before getting muddy to their hearts' content :) At a party it's not ok, for the reasons you listed above.
In the same way, you can state in a calm and succinct way that cutting a hole in the tent will let mosquitoes in, or rain ..... but hey, here's an old sheet we can use as a tent and cut as we please! You can foresee consequences that a 6 year old can't. But you can also quickly come up with a creative solution that, in Pam Sorooshian's words, 'fits the purpose' of your child in that moment. I've found that skill, of being able to turn on a dime and offer some fun alternative, is very handy for helping unschooling to thrive in my family. It doesn't always work, and sometimes I can't summon that creative spark, but most of the time I make a real effort to help my child find a way to carry out their intent.
That genuine effort and lighthearted approach, combined with a quiet confidence in what I'm doing, help to keep us all on the same team, so that when I do say no, my kids rarely feel 'controlled'.

Claire

 



---In [email protected], <vafnord@...> wrote:

Saying "no" on the nicest way possible is important. Notice the difference between "I don't want to do that right now" and "That's a bad idea".

It is a pretty common verbal "trick" to couch a "no" inside a monologue that implies that the requestor was wrong to ask in the first place. It adds insult to injury. It's a defense mechanism. It's totally understandable, and extremely common, but it does not improve relationships. If I'm on defense, I'm not on my child's team.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Saying "no" on the nicest way possible is important. Notice the difference between "I don't want to do that right now" and "That's a bad idea".-=-

Some things are a really bad idea.

-=-It is a pretty common verbal "trick" to couch a "no" inside a monologue that implies that the requestor was wrong to ask in the first place. It adds insult to injury. It's a defense mechanism-=-

How can a person have a conversation about something that's a bad idea, then, in this model, without being guilty of all these sins? I might be misunderstanding what was originally meant, but this seems to be a lot of words to suggest that the mother was wrong in the first place.

-=-It's totally understandable, and extremely common, but it does not improve relationships. If I'm on defense, I'm not on my child's team.-=-

I'm not sure what "it" is that is common, understandable but a bad idea, but I don't think a parent is just on a child's team. Is the child the team leader? If the parent can find a way to be the child's partner, it's likely that the parent is still the captain/guide/leader, for being taller and being able to see farther. For being more experienced and more responsible, the team can be coached toward doing things that are socially acceptable, and kind, and considerate.

The parent and the child are seen as a team, and ideally ARE a team, but that's not the same as the parent being a helpless supporter of "the child's team."

Sandra